"Imagine there's no heaven..."

[limpyhobbler]

http://www.stanleycolors.com/2012/06/imagine/


The last verse is missing. Still kind of a neat interpretation of the song.

Anybody know who the "Anna" is the pane next to Gandhi ?

[wavesofeuphoria]

1. My guess is Anna Politkovskaya

[hfojvt]

4. I was gonna guess

Kournikova

but that may be wishful thinking.

[limpyhobbler]

14. that could be

I see a resemblence

[HiPointDem]

2. why are gandhi & (i guess) king supposedly supporting "no religion"? they were both religious.

[limpyhobbler]

11. I think maybe they are just

drawn in for the "you may say I'm a dreamer but I'm not the only one" panels .

I'f they were in the religion panels that would be even sillier.

[HiPointDem]

16. the dreamers are the ones who can imagine no religion. doesn't matter which panels they are in,

it's silly to use religious figures to illustrate an anti-religious song.

[hfojvt]

3. I find that to be a really, really depressing thought

Imagine all of us rotting in the ground in less than 120 years - forever.

Living for today?

Then I might as well grab what I can - today. No need for any moral calculation at all, just a pragmatic one - will I get caught or punished?

[Bolo Boffin]

5. Why we can't have nice things. n/t

[FreeState]

6. Because god and heaven have the market on an afterlife?

Sorry but religion does not own morals or the belief in life continuing after death.

[Shankapotomus]

28. +1

Exactly. If we got here once without a God, it makes sense that the circular forces of the universe are geared toward a natural reincarnation. We will just never have any first hand knowledge of our previous existences.

[msongs]

7. living for today has nothing to do with grab all one can unless that's ones ethics already nt

[Egalitarian Thug]

9. You just might be the first person here that I believe actually would behave that badly.

Of course, you've failed to account for the fact that it would work both ways.

[hfojvt]

10. again though

that is a pragmatic calculation

[sudopod]

13. Is it really?

You might be surprised to find out that others have thought about this a little.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

25. I don't hate religious types

At least not the ones that teach of the universal brotherhood of man. (And women better be included equally in there too.)

It's like when people say an atheist has no business celebrating Christmas.

How about Peace on Earth?

It's the one time of the year where armies lay down their arms. There were stories in WWI of soldiers crossing the trenches and sharing a bottle of cognac and a box of cigars and then the next day they went back at it again.

The GOAL is to make that one day happen EVERY day.

[sudopod]

26. Oh kaaaaaaay...

I was being serious. It's common among people everywhere to think that they've got some special insight into whatever it is they're "in to" at the moment, as if experts in the field are bound by convention and unable to see an "obvious" answer. Go on a science website and see how many folks think that they can build a perpetual motion machine. Now, are those people dumb? Mostly, the answer is no. Many of them are actually educated people, and often as not have tangentially related degrees (i.e. engineers). The only thing that they suffer from, other than a mild case of hubris, is the Dunning-Kruger effect, which seems to be a design flaw (lel) in the human brain rather than a character defect. What kind of freshman physics major doesn't think that they're going to invent a warp engine?

The only solution is education, which, upon consumption, tends to mellow into humility with repeated doses.

Morality without religion is a thing in some philosophical circles, and as a hard-nosed scientist I am not the best expert on modern thought in this direction. However, it only takes a little work to find some good summaries of people who have done work in this area. Like always with Wikipedia, the value isn't in the article itself, but in its value as an aggregator of source material. The "references" section is rich with informative goodness.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morality_without_religion

Among the philosophical arguments found there is this meatier nugget, a bit of science in the form of a paper from the journal Social Psychological and Personality Science, which you might find interesting.

My Brother's Keeper? Compassion Predicts Generosity More Among Less Religious Individuals
Laura R. Saslow, Robb Willer, Matthew Feinberg, Paul K. Piff, Katharine Clark, Dacher Keltner
and Sarina R. Saturn, Social Psychological and Personality Science published online 26 April 2012,
DOI: 10.1177/1948550612444137

A download-able PDF is hosted at UC-Berkely here:

http://www.religionfacts.com/big_religion_chart.htm

Moreover, there are a large number of religions and belief systems that have very little of what we'd recognize as the Divine Carrot and Stick, especially in the forms of Heaven and Hell. Many religions believe that the soul dissolves with the body at the time of death, notably Taoism, several of the western-style polytheisms, and some strains of Judaisim. Others believe that the afterlife is uniformly bad, regardless of how one lives ones life, such as Shintoism and the ancient Mayan religion (though you got a ticket to heaven if you were a sacrificial victim!). A nice summary of several world religions' views on the afterlife can be found here:

http://www.religionfacts.com/big_religion_chart.htm

Now, if you'll excuse me, there is a ravening horde of Taoists looting my car that I must attend to, brb.

[sudopod]

32. kick nt

[WillParkinson]

38. And, of course...

You are the fount of good manners and courtesy, right? Lumping all atheists together is no different than lumping all religious people together.

I am an atheist. I am also a multiple winner of employee of the month at the hotel I work at because I exhibit great courtesy to our guests. Not because it's my job, but because I enjoy making the lives of people better.

Continue to think what you'd like, and I'm certain that you will, but know that you are showing a form of bigotry against something you clearly do not seem to understand.

[Egalitarian Thug]

17. You really have no clue how normal people think or what they feel, do you? n/t

Last edited Tue Jun 12, 2012, 12:14 PM - Edit history (1)

[hfojvt]

20. well I do know there are at least two ways to be abnormal

"When you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to change your mind." Mark Twain

Is "normal people" just another way of saying a$$hole?

Because that is what I am getting from you.

[sudopod]

12. A smart friend once told me that the difference between morals and ethics.

Morals are what you do because God is watching.

Ethics are what you do when no one is watching.

[ZombieHorde]

18. I am very nihilistic, but I don't even like to be rude on DU.

I don't believe in gods, an afterlife, karma, justice, good, evil, or inherent meaning or value. You say there would be no need for any moral calculation, but I say moral calculations are strictly imaginary.

If you are basing your decisions off the concept of God or Karma, then I think you are already only basing your "morality" on nothing but pragmatism.

[HuckleB]

21. No. Not at all.

“When my husband died, because he was so famous & known for not being a believer, many people would come up to me — it still sometimes happens — & ask me if Carl changed at the end & converted to a belief in an afterlife. They also frequently ask me if I think I will see him again. Carl faced his death with unflagging courage & never sought refuge in illusions. The tragedy was that we knew we would never see each other again. I don’t ever expect to be reunited with Carl. But, the great thing is that when we were together, for nearly twenty years, we lived with a vivid appreciation of how brief & precious life is. We never trivialized the meaning of death by pretending it was anything other than a final parting. Every single moment that we were alive & we were together was miraculous — not miraculous in the sense of inexplicable or supernatural. We knew we were beneficiaries of chance… That pure chance could be so generous & so kind… That we could find each other, as Carl wrote so beautifully in Cosmos, you know, in the vastness of space & the immensity of time… That we could be together for twenty years. That is something which sustains me & it’s much more meaningful…

The way he treated me & the way I treated him, the way we took care of each other & our family, while he lived. That is so much more important than the idea I will see him someday. I don’t think I’ll ever see Carl again. But I saw him. We saw each other. We found each other in the cosmos, and that was wonderful.“

-- Ann Druyan, talking about her husband, Carl Sagan

[stopwastingmymoney]

31. That's lovely

thank you

[HuckleB]

22. Some good reads.

http://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/563115-letter-to-a-christian-nation-a-challenge-to-faith

and...

http://atheistethicist.blogspot.com/2012/05/ethical-atheist-politician-social-role.html

[pinboy3niner]

23. It's a common mistake, equating "Grabbing what you can" with material things

Many don't see it that way.

For beer drinkers the goal, apparently, is to "Grab the Gusto." For the military, it's to "Be All You Can Be." But, apart from the advertising slogans, many measure the quality of life, and happiness, in other ways.

The happiest people I know are those who value love and friendship and positive relationships and interactions with other people above money, wealth and toys.

They go out of their way to help other people instead of going out of their way to add misery to the lives of others. They measure 'winning' in terms of doing something positive with others, not in terms of beating others.

'Grabbing what you can' as a selfish, materially-oriented goal is no guarantee of happiness--but it is a common mistake...

[Spitfire of ATJ]

24. Imagine all of us rotting in the ground in less than 120 years - forever

Speak for yourself. I plan to have them take what they can to help the living and whatever is left is either sent to a medical school as a cadaver or treated as medical waste.

[RC]

29. If there is no Heaven or Hell, shouldn't we then do what we can to make life easier for those

around us?
They, in turn would be more apt to make you life a little easier.

Makes sense to me. Your way seems to be counter productive and short lived in any case.

[Taverner]

33. It may be depressing, but that doesn't change a thing

[snooper2]

34. Well it's true so you better get over it LOL

Amazing that the fact that you are here and the atoms in your body are literally stardust. But no, that's not enough for you LOL.

I think you should start watching some videos like this-

&list=UUupX3k88Z1cRYCDuCPrmxlg&index=9&feature=plcp

[LanternWaste]

35. So very many people...

"Well it's true so..."

So very many people with so very many different beliefs say that precise thing daily. Vegas odds tell me that not all of you are correct...

[Hissyspit]

37. Wow.

Religion is the thing that produces moral calculation?

That's ridiculous.

Everyone rotting in the ground in less than 120 years forever is depressing? I guess. Doesn't mean it's not what happens and that that 120 yeas is not important.

[UnrepentantLiberal]

8. Ann Wright?

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ann_Wright

[limpyhobbler]

15. Could be. it does fit.

[Ken Burch]

27. Love the cameo by the "Trololo guy"

n/t.

[LeftinOH]

30. "Anna" could have been Anne Frank - but I realize it's someone else.

Anne Frank would have been just as good.

[magnifisense]

36. if only John were still alive

Imagine that.

What he would have to say about the state of things today and the contribution he would have made commenting on today's current events.

I saw a documentary on George Harrison on HBO the other day. If only he were still with us too.

Give me love, give me peace on earth ...