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Sat Jul 9, 2016, 12:17 PM

 

Donald Trumpís Pledge to Defend (non existent) Article XII of Constitution Raises Eyebrows


To the list of eyebrow-raising moments at meetings between presumed Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump and congressional Republicans on Thursday add this: an exchange about the U.S. Constitution.

At a closed-door meeting with House Republicans, Mr. Trump took a question about the U.S. Constitution. House Republicans have been especially focused Article I, which spells out the powers granted to Congress, because of concern about overreach by the executive branch. This concern has been acute during President Barack Obamaís time in the Oval Office.

In attempting to demonstrate his reverence for the U.S. Constitution, Mr. Trump said that he supported not just Article I, but an Article XII as well. That caused some brows to furrow, because the U.S. Constitution has only seven articles.

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2016/07/07/donald-trumps-pledge-to-defend-article-xii-of-constitution-raises-eyebrows/

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Reply Donald Trumpís Pledge to Defend (non existent) Article XII of Constitution Raises Eyebrows (Original post)
Liberal_in_LA Jul 2016 OP
Historic NY Jul 2016 #1
napkinz Jul 2016 #2
tblue37 Jul 2016 #23
whatthehey Jul 2016 #3
treestar Jul 2016 #4
sofa king Jul 2016 #5
malthaussen Jul 2016 #6
niyad Jul 2016 #9
malthaussen Jul 2016 #10
niyad Jul 2016 #12
malthaussen Jul 2016 #14
niyad Jul 2016 #15
malthaussen Jul 2016 #16
Rex Jul 2016 #18
malthaussen Jul 2016 #19
Rex Jul 2016 #20
SheriffBob Jul 2016 #7
Dreamer Tatum Jul 2016 #8
madokie Jul 2016 #11
niyad Jul 2016 #13
roamer65 Jul 2016 #17
madokie Jul 2016 #26
Rex Jul 2016 #21
SickOfTheOnePct Jul 2016 #22
Rex Jul 2016 #24
Ms. Toad Jul 2016 #25
SickOfTheOnePct Jul 2016 #27
Ms. Toad Jul 2016 #28
yuiyoshida Jul 2016 #29

Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Sat Jul 9, 2016, 12:20 PM

1. Should raise alarm bells.....

he lacks a grade school knowledge of the documents that is the key to the country.

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Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Sat Jul 9, 2016, 12:21 PM

2. another member a few weeks ago branded him "Dumbass Donald"





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Response to napkinz (Reply #2)

Sat Jul 9, 2016, 02:37 PM

23. Reminds me of when Palin thought Africa was a country. nt

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Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Sat Jul 9, 2016, 12:22 PM

3. Well, to be insanely generous

It could be possible he was affirming his belief in the 12th Amendment, but I can't imagine why as nobody is really pushing for same-state tickets or some such...

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Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Sat Jul 9, 2016, 12:24 PM

4. Is he really that dumb?

He is trying to lose. He knows he does not really want the job.

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Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Sat Jul 9, 2016, 12:25 PM

5. Remember all the ignorant things W said in 2000?

Well, there are about 80 million American voters who don't remember it. That's why you need to MAKE SURE you are registered to vote, and don't let anything stop you on that day.

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Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Sat Jul 9, 2016, 12:26 PM

6. Article 12 is another term for the 12th Amendment.

Which, if it is what he meant in his deranged mind, deals with the process of electing the President and VP, and may actually reflect his Birtherism, even though it does not address the issue of place-of-birth explicitly, because it does say that "no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States."

-- Mal

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Response to malthaussen (Reply #6)

Sat Jul 9, 2016, 12:45 PM

9. this is the first time I have heard that article XII is another term for the 12th amendment.

and, you seem to be giving der drumpfenfuhrer credit for actually knowing any of the amendments, which is incredibly generous of you.

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Response to niyad (Reply #9)

Sat Jul 9, 2016, 01:17 PM

10. Yeah, you could see it that way.

But even insane people may have a logical consistency to their insanity. Part of my personality is a desire to understand why people say things that make no sense at all, and I get a certain amount of satisfaction by figuring out some rationale that may explain their statements. It's dangerous turf, because one can find himself in the position of being accused of "defending" a position for which he has absolutely no sympathy. But it is an intellectual exercise that gives me pleasure.

Mr Trump is a moveable feast of such utterances, and I have been able to find rationales for several of his more absurd statements that I think might be accurate. I don't think Mr Trump is as stupid as he can appear, but he is curiously inept at expressing nuanced thought, although his ability to utter complete inanities is about matchless. Now, is he inept at expressing nuance because he doesn't, actually, comprehend it, or just because he is poor at voicing complexity? There are, after all, quite a few very intelligent people who are brutally inarticulate. I doubt Mr Trump is brilliant, but it is possible he is not unintelligent.

As to Article XII, I Googled it and came up with this link: http://www.americasfreedom.com/us-constitution/article12.html I have a suspicion the site is some kind of RW mecca (the title would tend to give that away, eh?), but it does show that, in some circles, Article XII is an accepted term.


-- Mal

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Response to malthaussen (Reply #10)

Sat Jul 9, 2016, 01:22 PM

12. I will say again that you have a great deal more patience, and generosity of spirit, than

I have, or claim.

So, do we credit der drumpfenfuhrer with being smart enough to pull off his ignorance schtick, or do we believe that he really is what he appears to be? Scary thought either way.

The fact that there is a website that doesn't know the difference between the articles of the constitution and its amendments is, although not surprising, disheartening, to say the least.

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Response to niyad (Reply #12)

Sat Jul 9, 2016, 01:45 PM

14. Yeah, I know what you mean.

And it is, of course, a website that prides itself on understanding what "America" is all about.

How much of Mr Trump is schtick, and how much reality? The $64 question, and I have not completely satisfied myself on that point. But a successful con man -- and Mr Trump is certainly that -- must have some native intelligence, or at least shrewd cunning (and a low opinion of his fellow man). My instinct is that he is not fully in control of what is happening, that he is riding opportunity as far and fast as he can, at least in part because he doesn't know how to dismount the tiger. He keeps pushing the envelope farther and farther, as if he is asking the country how long he can keep on being so outrageous, how far he can go. I don't feel (I use the term advisedly, I have insufficient evidence to make a satisfactory determination) that things have gone exactly as he intended, in terms of specifics: he wanted the glory and the adulation, but didn't want to be threatened with actually having to make good on his act. I still don't think he really wants the job, but he has in a manner of speaking painted himself into a corner, unless the GOP does initiate a coup and precipitate a constitutional crisis.

Scary either way, because he has tapped into a deep well of rage and fear, and by expressing it, validated it and given the crazies the knowledge that they aren't alone, them and their little militia buddies. And of course, other opportunistic politicians are now more inspired to tap into this wellspring, although it is to the credit (sort of) of many that even they won't stoop so low. In the end, the message matters more than the man, and that message is not without peril to the security of the nation. I have always believed the RW nuts were too cowardly to start anything serious, but the knowledge of their numbers may inspire some intemperate acts down the road. And if Mrs Clinton is elected president, which still seems to be the likely result, will the monster go back to sleep, or will it resort to those 2nd Amendment solutions the more fanatical make noise about? We may doubt that outcome, but I don't think we can disregard it out of hand.

-- Mal

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Response to malthaussen (Reply #14)

Sat Jul 9, 2016, 02:01 PM

15. would you post this as an OP so that we can rec it?

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Response to niyad (Reply #15)

Sat Jul 9, 2016, 02:05 PM

16. At your service. n/t

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Response to malthaussen (Reply #6)

Sat Jul 9, 2016, 02:12 PM

18. Where has it ever been referenced as Article 12? Never seen that in my lifetime.

 

There are a lot of Article XII - state constitutions have them. There has never been a mention of it toward the U.S. Constitution that I am aware of.

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Response to Rex (Reply #18)

Sat Jul 9, 2016, 02:18 PM

19. I posted a link above.

Apparently, in some poorly-informed circles, it is acceptable. Which might tell us something more about the circles in which Mr Trump travels.

-- Mal

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Response to malthaussen (Reply #19)

Sat Jul 9, 2016, 02:20 PM

20. Oh dam I just remembered his Corinthians II moment.

 

You know, I think you might be on to something.

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Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Sat Jul 9, 2016, 12:32 PM

7. I wonder...

how he will lie his way out of that dumb statement?

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Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Sat Jul 9, 2016, 12:35 PM

8. "I said it to see which of them knew there were only seven."


Guaranteed.

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Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Sat Jul 9, 2016, 01:21 PM

11. I'm telling you

I have blades of grass in my yard smarter than this idiot

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Response to madokie (Reply #11)

Sat Jul 9, 2016, 01:23 PM

13. either that, or he is one brillliant actor.

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Response to madokie (Reply #11)

Sat Jul 9, 2016, 02:11 PM

17. Please, don't offend your lawn.

It actually does useful things, like remove CO2 from the atmosphere. Unlike the moron Trumpf, which just adds to it.

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Response to roamer65 (Reply #17)

Sat Jul 9, 2016, 04:47 PM

26. My bad

I won't let it happen again

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Response to madokie (Reply #11)

Sat Jul 9, 2016, 02:21 PM

21. Let's be fair to your yard, ALL the blades of grass are smarter than Trump.

 

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Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Sat Jul 9, 2016, 02:26 PM

22. Except that there is an Article XII

Which I guess doesn't make him look quite as dumb as the people who claim there isn't one.

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Response to SickOfTheOnePct (Reply #22)

Sat Jul 9, 2016, 02:42 PM

24. What is Article XII of the U.S. Constitution?

 

I've only heard of I - VII.

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Response to SickOfTheOnePct (Reply #22)

Sat Jul 9, 2016, 02:55 PM

25. Here's a link to the entire constitution from a reputable source.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/overview

Please quote the first 10 words of Article XII for me.

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Response to Ms. Toad (Reply #25)

Sat Jul 9, 2016, 05:39 PM

27. Sure - I'll quote the whole thing

Article the twelfth... The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.


http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/bill_of_rights_transcript.html

I would say the U.S. National Archives is a pretty reputable source as well.

Of course, everyone but Trump knows this as the 10th Amendment, but it does say "Article the twelfth", so technically, he's correct.

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Response to SickOfTheOnePct (Reply #27)

Sat Jul 9, 2016, 06:02 PM

28. Careful reading is your friend.

It is accurate to say that the joint resolution proposing amendments to the constitution refers to the sections of text in the resolution (not the constitution) as "Articles." That is a far cry from the Constitution itself (not a joint resolution suggesting changes to the Constitution) having 12 articles.

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Response to Liberal_in_LA (Original post)

Sat Jul 9, 2016, 06:04 PM

29. facts are for school kids!

When you are Donald Trump, who needs facts?

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