De-Programming White People To Build A Better Future

[ancianita]

Last edited Mon Jul 18, 2016, 03:08 PM - Edit history (1)

I'm fully aware that I don't have all the answers. I'm just trying to think toward a better future for our kids and grandkids. So here goes...

1. ANY POLICE or mass media who insist, outright or in so many euphemistic words, that police lives and work matter more than the lives and work of those their uniformed brothers kill -- those police and media purposely ignore the rage that comes from 300 years of trafficking, torture, slavery, murder, the Old and New Jim Crow.

Anyone who supports those police over black victims is a traitor to humanity -- not just this country -- in which genocide is constantly justified by all whites as fast as white supremacists can muster every new lie they can in order to keep the mass victims of this still-current history "calm." As Jesse Williams says, "...looking at the data ... we know that police somehow manage to deescalate, disarm and not kill white people everyday. So what’s going to happen is we are going to have equal rights and justice in our own country or we will restructure their function and ours..."

And now Mr. Cop or Mr. GOP in America wants the 'right' to spread his rage in mass media and political parties against BLM??

2. The "ALL" argument and the "both sides do it" argument are used by those of us who are either unconscious of -- or who purposely cover over -- the double standards behind police/black public/protester interactions and attitudes. That double standard is the standard of white supremacy.

THAT unconsciousness borders on evil.

3. NO WHITES may ever use the "FROM NOW ON" argument to say, "Oh, we must FROM NOW ON commit to giving equal treatment to everyone." They must not even say the phrase. That mindset treats unequals equally so that those actions historically harden, strengthen and further structuralize existing inequalities.

"From Now On" is how we got here.
"From Now On" lulls the "woke" back to sleep.
"From Now On" prolongs structurally caused human suffering.

"From Now On" can only exist when its mindset dismantles, abolishes The New Jim Crow, and current legal definitions of personhood and equality under American law.

Structured double standards of our police and mainstream media are white supremacy standards of enforcement that harden our insidious racist public narratives and New Jim Crow legal structures of this country's INjustice system.

4. Even “the work” from "within the system" won’t work. Working from "within" results in internal hierarchal conflict, stigmatizes the well-intentioned for all the meager improvements they make to alleviate structurally caused inequality and broader suffering. The "working within the system" timeline has passed its deadline for solving racism.

Whites have no excuses – no claims of innocence, ignorance or any of the other covers for their lazy disengagement. Their only hope as humans is to try to get on the right side of human history by engaging "the work" from where they now stand.

As the lives of black people go, so goes the history of America.

5. For a better future, “the work” has to be OUTside and BEside the system, monitoring and beleaguering that system at every turn, if work within the system is to succeed. Insidious racist language, ideas, social and media programming all must be challenged -- in oneself and others.

Conscious lawyers, teachers, police, parents and public -- ALL can help crumble, then restructure humanity so that "Liberté, Egalité, Sororité are the reality and better future for all continents' humans.

When ALL people see black people’s work as THEIR work – and they don’t yet -- then the proposition that “all lives matter” will never have to be said. It will be self evident.

[HassleCat]

1. The police appeal to white people

"We are the thin blue line between you and them." White people are terrified of young black men. OK, so are some black people, but not with the degree of hysterical paranoia displayed by white people who will allow the police to get away with anything, as long as "them" are kept away. I wish I had a good idea of what to do about this.

[ancianita]

2. I've thought of setting up black/white boot camps! Like real camp! What do you think?

[Dreamer Tatum]

26. I think reeducation camps have already been tried and didn't go so well. nt

[ancianita]

27. You're right. Bad idea.

[Dreamer Tatum]

30. That you need to be reminded that concentration camps are, like, a bad thing

doesn't speak well of your OP.

[1StrongBlackMan]

37. That you would go from "Boot camp" to "Concentration Camp is equally disturbing.

[Dreamer Tatum]

54. "Boot camp" that someone else signs me up for = Concentration Camp

Hey 1SBM - that reminds me. I have a camp I think you need to go to. Someone will be around soon to pick you up and take you there. No big deal. OK?

[ancianita]

58. WTF. Are kids' camps mandatory in your world? Nobody said any camp is mandatory.

You're imagining someone that is not me.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

110. "That's REAL good Antony" with some "kids" news, movies and imagery

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3180201/Trump-defends-big-game-hunting-sons-shamed-Twitter-posing-trophy-kills-including-leopard-elephant-death-Cecil-lion.html

Donald Trump defending sons' sport killing of exotic African animals may finally doom billionaire blowhard's campaign
http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/gossip/stasi-hed-article-1.2311902
"HUNTER KILLS LARGEST AFRICAN ELEPHANT AND POISONS DOZENS MORE"
IT'S A GOOD LIFE "You be dead!" said this kid

[UnFettered]

3. Honestly

The idea of reprogramming or judging anybody because of how they were born is utterly fucking disgusting.

[whistler162]

51. Hey Eugenics worked great the last time

it was tried. In NAZI Germany! So why not again.

Judge people by what they do and not by what they look like. 'Cause on the Internet they all look like a bunch of 1's and 0's.

[Eleanors38]

60. Why, they're taking numbers now! Free chopped steak dinner!

[romanic]

4. Making the Whites an enemy doesn't work.

[ancianita]

16. Who said the word "enemy." I know Tim Wise is better at speaking to whites about themselves,

but I'm trying here to tackle language that's used to lull whites back into inattention and complacency.

[Eleanors38]

61. No one mentioned "fart," but this is stinking like a hippo bar fight.

[LongtimeAZDem]

85. It worked. I'll no longer use the term "ally" in the context of this issue. (nt)

[romanic]

89. Tim Wise is a hack.

[milestogo]

5. De-Programming People of Color To Build A Better Future

Nope, doesn't sound any better.

[ancianita]

23. I hear you; it's just that race neutral language hasn't accomplished much in the post-racial era,

either, has it.

[melman]

39. You know what they'd call a thread like that here?

Post Removed

[milestogo]

44. Yup.

[Skittles]

109. stereotyping sucks, unless it involves LEO / white people

[Democat]

111. And Christians

Sometimes Jewish people too here.

[AgingAmerican]

6. 60% of the Democratic party are 'white people'

Your OP is racially bigoted garbage. You need to educate yourself.

[WillowTree]

19. What AgingAmerican said......from another aging American.

Thank you, AA.

[tonyt53]

47. I'm in agreement with you guys. We've seen and heard this before.

[B2G]

7. Can we send them all to re-education camps?

[ancianita]

10. Yeah, cuz that's always been the commie crux of my post history. Come on.

[B2G]

11. Well you're the one who brought up camps upthread.

Just how to you propose to accomplish this?

And what happens if they don't cooperate with this re-education?

Just trying to help you think this through.

[ancianita]

21. When you put it that way, the idea sounds stupid. Okay, you've talked me out of it. But I

originally imagined it to be sponsored through schools to be a short summer awareness building out-in-nature, family oriented kind of group travel event.

I guess floating this whole idea is stupid. Sorry.

[Exilednight]

25. It's not communist, it's totalitarian, and

Every part of the political spectrum is pretty much guilty of it.

Our own country attempts to reprogram middle-easterners.

[NaturalHigh]

8. I'm going to print out a copy of your manifesto...

in case I run out of toilet paper.

As for what I may or must do - that's none of your concern, and no, I won't be following the advice of people like you.

[ancianita]

14. Dude. If I wanted you to think the post is a manifesto, I'd have written "manifesto" in the title.

[melman]

9. FFS

"Whites have no excuses – no claims of innocence, ignorance or any of the other covers for their lazy disengagement. Their only hope as humans is to try to get on the right side of human history by engaging "the work" from where they now stand."

Fuck that shit. You should delete this trash.

[ancianita]

12. I'm not really saying the programming is conscious, but it is a mindset reinforced by birth and

systems none of us built.

But I don't have any other ways to think about changing a system I didn't make.

But we're not excused from trying.

I've followed BLM, the news, studied African American and European History, read Howard Zinn, Sven Beckert, Doris Kearns, Barbara Tuchman.

I don't see any real alternative ways to support a structural change in policing across 4,134 counties in this country without starting first with the language and mindset of whites who feel most threatened by recent events.

[Dreamer Tatum]

28. I suppose your reading list entitles and appoints you official Inquisitor

...and I'm sure you are uniquely qualified to decide who feels most threatened by recent events?

[ancianita]

33. You suppose incorrectly. Trying to end self serving argument language that the GOP has used,

language that postpones any doing of anything to solve horrors that have my black friends and their kids on edge every fucking day. They are hurting.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

62. "reinforced by birth"

Conspiracy! Conspiracy!

[ancianita]

64. Just in case you're serious... Knock it off. Reinforcement is far from conscious.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

65. Neither is bigotry from any angle hon.

Knock it off right back.

[ancianita]

66. You see bigotry. Prove it.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

68. Oh, I don't know if I have time before the DeProgramming van comes to get me.

[ancianita]

69. Yeah. The back-down joke. What I thought.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

87. If you don't want to be ridiculed then don't post the ridiculous

to begin with, tough guy.

[WestCoastLib]

13. antisocial measures will never work.

You are pissing in the wind and will accomplish absolutely nothing.

[Throd]

15. You keep thinkin' Butch. That's what you're good at.

[Marengo]

17. You need to be deprogrammed of your white savior complex.

[ancianita]

18. Please. Tell me more about myself.

[Marengo]

20. It's supposed to be sarcasm, I didn't think the tag needed.

[Dreamer Tatum]

29. Oh snap. nt

[sarisataka]

22. Aww hell

Last week I was told I was simply born racist. Now I find out I need deprogramming.

Bloody hell, I am fucked up. Condemned before I even know what I have done.

I suppose I am already destined for hell but maybe I can turn something around for someone else. Where should I report for a reeducation camp?

[ancianita]

24. I used the word de-programming because I heard a black caller describe his own people

that way on a live radio talk show that I listened to out of New Orleans this morning.

It was a fascinating set of perspectives on who and how to take responsibility for how our micro-aggressions and tensions come out of views that we've swum with since we were little.

So many people are fed up with the idea of looking in the mirror.

The only way I have known to re-educate myself is to get opinions from people of color, black friends or no. And read.

[sarisataka]

31. I was born and raised in a very white neighborhood

Naturally that form certain preconceptions.

Since that time I have lived and worked in extremely Multicultural environment. Amazingly I found some of my preconceptions were false; some could even be called prejudicial.

Becoming aware of that I have made a conscious effort to treat each person as an individual regardless of the color of their skin place of origin upbringing or anything else. All individuals have the potential to turn out to be either good people or not so good. I let their actions determine which I categorize them as.

Are some of those preconceptions and Prejudice is still there? Of course. It is hard to unlearn everything you have learned. I have found the best is to simply be aware of my faults and counteract them accordingly. Yet no matter how much I try to treat people equally, preach equality and fight for equality it is not enough. I keep hearing how I am simply racist and guilty for every ill of the past several hundred years.

[UnFettered]

36. Great reply

[Lancero]

108. Ah, you 'heard a black caller'...

Is this some new variant on the 'I've got black friends' defense?

[LongtimeAZDem]

40. I had the same reaction to that thread last week (nt)

[TipTok]

100. Of course you couldn't know...

The moment you were conceived with that white DNA, you were apparently doomed.

Interesting how white skin automatically determines these characteristics but at the same time the golden opportunity for 'reeducation' is offered up.

Seems like it should be an either or thing.

[applegrove]

32. Police and African americans have it in common that they deal

with more harassment and aggressions than other groups. This should be acknowledged. Other groups in the usa do not experience it nearly as much with the exception of gay kids from Christian/religious families and transgendered people of all ages. We should let both the police and black lives matter talk about their experiences.

[ancianita]

34. It should also be acknowledged that African American cops get that from both groups, too.

[applegrove]

35. Absolutely.

[loyalsister]

43. There's a power differential that mitigates that harrassment

Don't forget that police have guns and can and do use them. They can also quit wearing blue if it gets to be too much. They signed up for it and have a choice.
There is no doubt that cops are either part of the aggression or letting it happen. They aren't helpless and the good ones who are doing nothing are guilty themselves.
Why US culture glorifies them and relieves them of responsibility is beyond me. But, comprehending the damage it does to give police more and more power, and always the benefit of the doubt is a real step towards building inroads to understanding the experience of people of color.

[applegrove]

45. Sometimes police can't do anything about the aggression. True that they can take off their uniform

but that and neoliberalism lead to lesser people joining the force and good smart officers becoming investment bankers instead.

[loyalsister]

53. "Lesser people"?????

Wow that's quite a term. No matter who joins the police force, they should be held to high standards and reminded every now and then that if they don't like their jobs they can quit. Such is not the case for people whose skin tone determines that cops are given license to harrass and even kill them with little or no criticism from white America.

[applegrove]

71. Well the police are getting paid badly, and 'scientific' articles came out a few years ago

that said police should not be smart as the job is too repetitive. Sounds all very social engineered neoliberal bullshit to me. You end up with someone afraid to stand in front of a black man as the black man, who has volunteered that he is concealed carrying, goes for his ID, without the cop pulling his gun and shooting. Some people don't feel they have a choice when low paying jobs are the only alternative. There are the worst of the worst criminals who play all sorts of games with the police like this monster yesterday. My point being both African Americans and police have stories to tell. And tell them they both should at this juncture in history lest this all just becomes a manufactured wedge issue for the GOP in the years to come with more dead people on both sides.

[loyalsister]

72. Placing this in the context of party politics is extremely cynical

and it is exactly what enables the police union in MO to celebrate Darren Willson on the anniversary of the day he shot Michael Brown. They know Dems and Republicans are both looking for the police union endorsement. They are coddled even when they exhibit the most vile aspects of humanity.

No matter how poor someone is, if they whine about being stigmatized and afraid and refuse to quit their jobs, it's on them and they need to remember that people fear them and that their job is not as dangerous as politicians and the media would like us to believe.

[applegrove]

82. I'm talking trends in policing...not enough money to hire the best of the best. I live in Canada and

our police are the smartest, professionally assertive, most affable people. Our cities have amalgamated to include rich and poor together. Rural areas have provincial police or RCMP. And yes there are bad apples at times. But not to the extent of the USA. I cannot imagine living in a place where they don't purposely hire the best people. Policing is about really hard problem solving.

And you're not cynical enough to understand how cynical I was being.

[1StrongBlackMan]

38. I see all the "allies of Black people" responding negatively ...

so perhaps, your boot camp idea for providing an alternative frame for white people (otherwise known as "anti-racism seminars&quot is not far off the mark!

Bravo!

[ancianita]

41. Whew! If you have any more ideas, I need them, cuz I thought I was on another planet for a minute.

[1StrongBlackMan]

46. LOL ...

No ... You're fine, in my book.

I suspect you're under attack by my "allies" because your approach focuses on changing the mindset/orientation of white folks, rather than addressing Black folks, too ... who my "allies" believe are equally responsible for promoting racism and the white supremacist system.

[ancianita]

49. Thanks. How that "they both do it" attitude permeates allies' thinking is so 'smh I can't even' ugh!

[1StrongBlackMan]

52. LOL. Yep ... SMDH. too.

[UnFettered]

48. Negative about the idea just because

Somebody is white they automatically need a anti-racism seminar. Yea then you can call me negative.
It goes against everything I believe in. A person is who ever they are as a person and nothing else. Everybody is different there is no one sulution or blanket answer.

Also America is more than just black and white !

[1StrongBlackMan]

50. Well ...

Somebody is white they automatically need a anti-racism seminar.

It can't hurt ... we can call it a refresher course.

[UnFettered]

55. Well the correct term for judging biased apon ones race

is racial profiling !

[giftedgirl77]

56. Lol, how is it no matter the situation some ppl always manage

to make it about themselves?

[rbrnmw]

106. Yep exactly

Shout out to 1SBM

[ancianita]

42. Listen to Gavin Long on my friend's radio show today. "Like" Chuck Perkins on Facebook to get

better black perspectives and his daily radio show.

Gavin Long is the guy named as the cop shooter in Baton Rouge, who is shown in Chuck's show as coming from Dallas.

Chuck Perkins, veteran marine, poet, father of two college bound daughters and owner of Cafe Istanbul in NOLA, is an important voice that white people need to hear.

I can't recommend his radio show enough.

You can participate in his show daily on Facebook, where he posts it live, 9 am CST.

[lapislzi]

57. I know I have no right to ask for help

Especially from those whose oppression benefits me in every way. I understand this.

I also genuinely want more understanding, and this is difficult without outright asking.

I don't understand #3. I can't go back and change history--and I'm not trying to be disingenuous about this. I pay attention. Not enough, probably, but I can only do better in the forward direction. My misdeeds, such as they are--are in the past, and the past of my ancestors. My privilege is in the present, rooted in the past. I can't un-privilege myself. At least, I wouldn't know how to.

So...what do I do NOW? As I said, I have no right to answers from anyone, but I am hopeful that there is enough goodwill to prevail. And if there's goodwill, how do we put it to best use?

What is "the work" and how do I go about it?

[ancianita]

63. I'm going to get back to you on this. But I'd first suggest a reading list that includes

black women's slave narratives beside Fredrick Douglass' "Narrative of The Life; novels like Johnson's "The Autobiography of An Ex-Colored Man," Baldwin's "Go Tell It On The Mountain" or his short story "Sonny's Blues"; Maya Angelou's "I Know Why The Caged Bird Sings," Toni Morrison's "Song of Solomon;" Kidd's "The Secret Life of Bees," and any African American Literature anthology you can get your hands on.

Non-fiction:

Henry Louis Gates: The Signifying Monkey
Claude Steele's "Whistling Vivaldi"
Dr. Beverly Tatum's "Why Are All The Black Kids Sitting Together In the Cafeteria?"
The Cornel West Reader (anthology)
Martin Bernal's "Black Athena"

This is my must-read list, though I've got at least 100 other titles.

Hope this helps.

In the meantime, I have a professor friend who will help me with your "the work" question, the answer for which I hope to relay to you.

Thank you for the thoughtful sincerity of your response.

[lapislzi]

67. Thank you. Have already read some

Will get to work on the others.

I appreciate your willingness to share. Respect.

[Doctor_J]

59. Looks like the trumpers are not the only ones who think we need a race war

Your attitude, if it's really reflected in this op, is completely unhelpful. Deprogram white people. Tell white people what they can and cannot say and think. Whites have no excuses.

This isn't going to work.

[ancianita]

70. You honor me by even asking...

Ooops... forgot to add to non-fiction ... Michelle Alexander's "The New Jim Crow" and Ta-Nehisi Coates' "Between The World And Me."

[ancianita]

104. Not the point. Using PR programmed arguments that obfuscate doesn't help, either.

Changing language changes thought.

Those who've kept black Americans "in line" know that. And whites who don't want to know how all that is done -- words or deeds -- will accept and use any sophist justifications so their comfortable world doesn't have to change, either.

The unhelpful offered is better than the helpful undisclosed. Please contribute beyond tearing down another's ideas. It's called a discussion thread for a reason.

[bravenak]

73. My mom loves this

[ancianita]

75. Hiya! Yeah I stepped in it today. Denial sure ain't a river in Egypt.

[bravenak]

77. We all have to take our turn

[X_Digger]

74. Umm, 'from now on' indicates that we don't have time machines.

It indicates that change has to start now, not a week from now, not next month..

[ancianita]

79. I'm not sure what you're getting at. Do you see how often it's been said over the last 100 years?

History shows the prevalence of slavery above the Mason-Dixon line for a long time after Harriet Tubman was moving slaves to Canada through upstate New York.

My argument is that if enough whites meant it back when it was first used, let's say around Emancipation Proclamation time, it wouldn't have to keep being said, would it, if white-owned media or white-dominated law enforcement meant it.

As Gavin Long says, it usually pulled out for media consumption only when whites' enforcers suffer publicly. Then, all of a sudden, they want to have a "national discussion."

So when I try to have one here, I get MOSTLY gaslight treatment.

So, again. Are you trying to define the phrase? Because how it's used lately is dishonest.

[X_Digger]

83. I'm saying that 'from now on' indicates that change has to happen NOW.

Too many times politicians utter mealy-mouthed platitudes with vague promises to be implemented sometime in the (undisclosed) future.

That's not good enough. Immediacy, call to action, the impetus to take steps NOW.. that's part of what's needed.

[ancianita]

84. Duly noted. Thanks.

[melman]

90. "As Gavin Long says"

Why are you citing this murderer?

[ancianita]

91. Taken from a NOLA talk show that played his tape. That's it. Long is dead. He knew he'd

be subjected to the instant double standard of enforcement and justice armed police get.

The radio show gave a balanced reading of the dead policeman's letter, as well. Chuck Perkins, the host, wept as he read it because he related to the policeman with daughters.

The whole show was about humanizing both police and profiled civilians, and the self serving use of language to keep the air of fear and threat high.

[tallahasseedem]

76. The post should be used as an example of...

how NOT to approach a heated debate.

I'm white and you have no idea what I do or do not do with these kinds of issues. Lecturing anyone about anything doesn't work, especially with inflammatory language.

This thread should be in the trash where it belongs.

[Nye Bevan]

78. I raised my privilege self-checking frequency to "hourly"

Last edited Mon Jul 18, 2016, 07:34 PM - Edit history (1)

and my white-guilt factor to "extreme". Is that enough tweaks to my programming?

[ancianita]

80. My black friends and their children hurt hourly and you make jokes.

Ever heard the phrase "mighty white of you"?

[Nye Bevan]

88. Ah, I will also lower the mightiness level of my whiteness,

Thanks for the reminder.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

92. Wait, are you caucasian? "My black friends...?"

[guillaumeb]

81. Recommended.

Very well said.

One minor thing, solidarité feminine is the female equivalent of fraternité. But fraternité, while literally meaning brotherhood, is not really gender exclusive in the way it is used.

[ancianita]

86. I know the original, but as a Spanish speaker I guessed at the French. Thanks for your correction.

I was shooting for the kind of language change I prefer, one that reflects more of the s/he pronoun use, and less of the inclusive male pronoun use that has erased much feminine existence from the page.

[guillaumeb]

93. Glad to help and, again, an excellent post.

I understand the gender neutral concept, but until l'Académie française changes the rules........

[aikoaiko]

94. So am I right that you think most white people are less than human?

I'm pondering the phrase "traitor to humanity".

[ancianita]

95. You're wrong. I don't think that.

I thought you were pondering my "all whites..." which I should obviously edit to "too many."

As for "traitor to humanity," I'm using a form of the word betray, saying that to value police lives over black lives or any civilian lives just because a badge confers justification for all manner of right or wrong behavior toward anyone -- that attitude betrays -- makes one a traitor to -- the larger body politic's civilized agreements of equality under national and human rights laws.

[aikoaiko]

96. Ok.

[Marr]

97. Every group has it's authoritarians, it seems.

Here's one openly calling for camps for races they don't like-- and some even line up to defend that.

I'm glad you're not in charge.

[ancianita]

99. You exhibit one characteristic of authoritarians yourself: poor reading comprehension.

Camp = retreat. And it was just an idea, not even a proposal.

You don't care to exert basic reading effort about what someone else makes an effort to post, yet you go out of your way to waste energy to insult them.

[Marr]

102. You make a post like that

and get indignant and insulting when it's recognized for the racist swill that it is?

[ancianita]

105. Please excerpt the key racist swill parts. Seriously. Let's discuss my racism.

[aikoaiko]

98. Well, I've reread your OP 5 times trying to take it all in and understand it.

Now that I've gotten beyond what I thought you were saying (i.e., whites are less than human), allow me to ask some questions to better understand and express where I am stuck.

1. I get this. No one live is more important that anyone else's, but there are times when I think anyone can justifiably use lethal force to defend themselves. Do you agree or not?

2. I don't understand what the "all" or "both sides do it" arguments are in the context of police brutality. Can you explain?

3. This section puzzles me. I don't understand what is wrong with saying "from now on...." The past can't be changed. We can only act in the present and plan for the future. You say "from now on" got us here, but here is better than the past in many (albeit not all) ways for POC.

4. and 5. I don't understand how you can say that the deadline for working within the system has passed when we are all in the system and cannot escape it. There is no outside the system or beside the system.

You say that "Conscious lawyers, teachers, police, parents and public -- ALL can help.." but those roles are within the system.

And what does it mean to crumble and restructure humanity?

Again, I'm puzzled by much of what you write.

[ancianita]

101. Seriously. My writing/thinking is usually not that hard to understand.

Five times is a lot of effort. I'm not sure you should have tried that hard. Anyway, I'll try to reciprocate.

"All" as in "All Lives Matter," has been a major problematic response to the Black Lives Matter Movement over the last year. To use "all" is to diminish and dismiss constant police assaults upon unarmed black civilians, and an entire system of mass encarceration that came out of the War On Drugs.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025866532
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10028002288#post14


"Both sides do it" has been covered in media and DU since 2012. It's been a rhetorical trick used to refuse responsibility for one's unethical, irresponsible or criminal behavior in gender, race or two-party politics.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1017&pid=311988

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027166690

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021316888

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017311784

I honestly don't know if I can help you with your not understanding "from now on." It's a mindset that accepts gradualism. It accepts that the civil rights' voting rights act and other laws had timelines for ending unjust disenfranchisement and/or jobs, housing and school desegregations. Yet those things have failed -- according to The New Jim Crow's well presented research -- though those civil rights laws were based on "from now on" thinking. For black citizens, the slow grind of economic defeat and death, e.g., Ferguson, at the hands of police, is more proof that institutionalized racism has become a hardened, intergenerational culture of many white citizens. The Southern Poverty Law Center has provided the database for the FBI's lists of hate groups throughout the US; almost all are white.

Re 4 and 5, I suppose you would have the luxury, wouldn't you, of saying that we're all caught up in time and just can't racism just get better on its own. None of the black community I've worked with have ever thought that way.

Much of the Boomer generation decided, after the war and civil rights protests, deaths of our leaders in the sixties, that working within the system might be the viable way to dismantle "systems." But we were unprepared for the co-optations of the PR industry that cozied into media, Washington and Beltway contractors. We are still reminded that "one doesn't dismantle the master's house using the master's tools."

Crumbling and restructuring humanity are fuzzy English about acquiring more control of the "systems" of food, clothing, shelter, health care and education. Little will improve if we don't change the racist underpinnings of those systems that traffick humans, drugs and war. Restructuring humanity means that another's wealth isn't built unfairly on the underpaid labor of many others.

I appreciate your questions, even if they seem to show a lack of awareness of issues that have been kicking around here for a few years. I hope I've clarified a few of them.

[lapislzi]

103. I, for one, appreciate the candor in your posts

It is difficult for many white people to understand how complicit we are in the systemic oppression and de-privilegization of POC. Even if we don't mean to be or even want to be. It's there; it's in place. The defensiveness I'm seeing here from many DUers whom I know to be well-intentioned and socially conscious may be due to their not wanting to admit how much they benefit from things being exactly as they are.

To paraphrase Tim Wise, you cannot have an underprivileged class without its corollary opposite. It's right there in the word itself. (If he got that idea from someone else, that person deserves the credit.)

I did not earn my privilege. It shouldn't even be a thing. While we can't change history--that's been acknowledged throughout this thread, we can commit to doing better than the empty increments the OP has cited. At least I think that's what she's saying.

It would be easy to take the lazy way out, but that would be yet another in the continuing series of face slaps that People of Color have been forced to endure for centuries, to the enduring benefit and enrichment of whites. I want out of that cycle. I want my daughter out of that cycle. It's only by educating ourselves, observing, and engaging, that we have a chance to make things better for people for whom things have been too awful for too long.

I'm not afraid of the Work, even if some of it might be scary.

[HeavenSage]

107. Insane.

This is just insane. You can't force people to be good, they have to be that by themselves or it doesn't work.