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deminks

(11,014 posts)
Thu Jul 21, 2016, 01:54 PM Jul 2016

Fallout from Melania Trump plagiarism scandal continues (new)

http://www.dallasnews.com/news/politics/headlines/20160721-fallout-from-melania-trump-plagiarism-scandal-continues.ece

CLEVELAND -- Fallout from Melania Trump’s plagiarism debacle continued Thursday as Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort tried, again, to clarify the campaign’s inconsistent statements on the matter.

"None of us knew" that Meredith McIver, the woman who has since admitted to lifting parts of a speech by First Lady Michelle Obama for Trump’s prime-time address, “was even involved in the process,” Manafort said Thursday, the final day of the Republican National Convention.

(snip)

Manafort said he refuted the plagiarism charges earlier this week based on conversations he had with Melania Trump and “speechwriters."

“I asked Melania Trump what the story was about and she insisted, and I believed her, that these were her words,” he said, later adding: “When the first lady tells me they didn’t do it, and the speechwriters say they didn’t do it, as far as I’m concerned they didn’t do it.”

Manafort erroneously referred to McIver as McIntyre multiple times during his remarks, saying: “I did not know about the role of Ms. McIntyre. When she came forward, we immediately put forward the statement.”

(end snip)

There are so many things here, first he refers to Melania as the first lady - she ain't yet asswipe. Second, he doesn't know McIvers name.

But still no definitive proof the ghostly Ms. McIver exists. Or McIntyre, or Ms. Baron.
44 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Fallout from Melania Trump plagiarism scandal continues (new) (Original Post) deminks Jul 2016 OP
I noticed Manafort is already referring to her as "the first lady". MohRokTah Jul 2016 #1
Well, she can't be the First Liar, Trump has that one locked down. L. Coyote Jul 2016 #31
This story can't die -- it's not about plagiarism or Melania anymore eissa Jul 2016 #2
Holy shit I didn't even dig that much into the McIver thing. trotsky Jul 2016 #5
Some enterprising reporter lapucelle Jul 2016 #42
Manafort is suppossed to be some political genius. stopbush Jul 2016 #3
In third world he does well ... GeorgeGist Jul 2016 #4
Well, he does well for authoritarian types....until they're overthrown several years later. Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2016 #7
I don't believe a word coming from the Trump campaign C_U_L8R Jul 2016 #6
The speech scandal seems a little silly to me loyalsister Jul 2016 #8
It's more than just the plaigarism eissa Jul 2016 #9
I asked a group of 3 that I was having lunch with today about the story yeoman6987 Jul 2016 #33
That's my fear eissa Jul 2016 #41
Trusting you read the almost two paragraphs of verbatim plagiarism? mahina Jul 2016 #10
Nothing to see here. Wednesdays Jul 2016 #13
"The plagiarism is evidence that these people are frauds and liars." Liars who protesteth too much, L. Coyote Jul 2016 #34
Nobody is attacking Melania, and it's about a lot more than the candidate's wife. yardwork Jul 2016 #11
The Trump campaign chairman never heard of Meredith McIver and can't get her name right. yardwork Jul 2016 #12
+1,000 malaise Jul 2016 #15
This is a big story now because she does exist and she implicated Trump in criminal conduct. L. Coyote Jul 2016 #36
Even IF McIver is real, it is NOT exculpatory for Melania tableturner Jul 2016 #14
A couple of corrections to your great list. Good to see someone knows what's happening. L. Coyote Jul 2016 #18
good points wheniwasincongress Jul 2016 #43
Does McIver exist or not? bluestateguy Jul 2016 #16
Merdith McIver lives rocktivity Jul 2016 #40
We may not have the long form birth certificate yet, but she exists. L. Coyote Jul 2016 #17
I see no proof in that thread that Meredith McIver is a real person. yardwork Jul 2016 #20
You see the photograph of her? Her books? Plenty of other tweets from her friends and L. Coyote Jul 2016 #26
No Congressional hearing yet? Will "CLEVELAND" replace "BENGHAZI" soon? George II Jul 2016 #22
They are calling it #Melaniaghazi now. L. Coyote Jul 2016 #29
Could they have gotten qualified speech writers there in time? Or were they recalled? keithbvadu2 Jul 2016 #30
The Trump campaign is totally like an episode of TransitJohn Jul 2016 #19
If what he's now saying is true, he's essentially calling Melania Trump a liar: George II Jul 2016 #21
Nobody really gives a shit about this. Leontius Jul 2016 #23
But everyone should give a shit about this rocktivity Jul 2016 #25
A complaint has been filed with the FEC and Trump may face criminal charges. But, move on, nothing? L. Coyote Jul 2016 #28
... 63splitwindow Jul 2016 #24
They're not blaming Hillary Clinton anymore? gratuitous Jul 2016 #27
Michelle's speech went over very well at the RNConvention. keithbvadu2 Jul 2016 #32
If I recall McIntyre's letter (on Trump letterhead)...... Sheepshank Jul 2016 #35
Here's the letter: L. Coyote Jul 2016 #37
Yes, he just can't stop himself from lying. nt SunSeeker Jul 2016 #39
The Dallas News is spinning a story of idiocy to put the best light on Trump's criminal problem. L. Coyote Jul 2016 #38
"A person (Melania) has always liked is Michele Obama" -- too much information? rocktivity Jul 2016 #44
 

MohRokTah

(15,429 posts)
1. I noticed Manafort is already referring to her as "the first lady".
Thu Jul 21, 2016, 01:56 PM
Jul 2016


Fucking piece of shit bastard he is.

L. Coyote

(51,129 posts)
31. Well, she can't be the First Liar, Trump has that one locked down.
Thu Jul 21, 2016, 04:39 PM
Jul 2016
Hell, she can't even be the First Plagiarist.

eissa

(4,238 posts)
2. This story can't die -- it's not about plagiarism or Melania anymore
Thu Jul 21, 2016, 02:00 PM
Jul 2016

It's about an unstable person who has a pattern of creating fake characters. This is not normal behavior.

lapucelle

(18,258 posts)
42. Some enterprising reporter
Thu Jul 21, 2016, 05:10 PM
Jul 2016

needs to check with the George Balanchine's School of American Ballet to see if she really attended. (Balanchine is spelled wrong on the everipedia page.)

The everipedia page also says she's friends with John Barron and John Miller (aliases Trump has used), so some rogue editor has a sense of humor.

http://www.everipedia.com/meredith-mciver/


C_U_L8R

(45,002 posts)
6. I don't believe a word coming from the Trump campaign
Thu Jul 21, 2016, 02:18 PM
Jul 2016

Especially nasty Manafort and his dumbass candidate

loyalsister

(13,390 posts)
8. The speech scandal seems a little silly to me
Thu Jul 21, 2016, 02:33 PM
Jul 2016

Maybe it's worth a chuckle, but it's nothing new. Obama was accused of plagerizing Bill Clinton for talking about "hope."

Most of the time, along with the raw meat for their constituents, they are all trrying to send similar messages to the same voters thought to be persuadable. And, a universal Work hard, play by the rules, and America is great message. It should be no surprise when someone inexperienced with national campaigns lifts some parts of a speech from another speaker. Particularly if they have been doing it all along during the local primary campaign and haven't been caught (i am guessing that is likely).

The real problem with this to me is the inexperienced inept campaign combined with an idiotic defense and transparent response. This is a problem for republicans more than anything because they have an embarrassing and clueless candidate and campaign. Attacking Malania over and over ignores the real issue which is a campaign that reflects the fools running it and by extension the candidate himself.

eissa

(4,238 posts)
9. It's more than just the plaigarism
Thu Jul 21, 2016, 02:38 PM
Jul 2016

The fact that his brainless wife copied a speech is not the issue. It's that he made-up a fake speechwriter to take the fall. The phony aliases have been a pattern with him, and it's unnerving. This is not something normal people do.

 

yeoman6987

(14,449 posts)
33. I asked a group of 3 that I was having lunch with today about the story
Thu Jul 21, 2016, 04:41 PM
Jul 2016

And all they knew was that Melani used some sentences and that she isn't from this country. Ugh. I gave them the scoop. They were surprised it was that involved. You would be shocked by the number of Americans who really are out of touch with day to day politics. I was a bit surprised with these 3 because they are educated all 3 school teachers.

eissa

(4,238 posts)
41. That's my fear
Thu Jul 21, 2016, 05:04 PM
Jul 2016

That most people aren't really paying attention to all this, and it's just us political junkies that are seeing all these exploding red flags everywhere. Hopefully these people will wake up before November.

mahina

(17,659 posts)
10. Trusting you read the almost two paragraphs of verbatim plagiarism?
Thu Jul 21, 2016, 03:16 PM
Jul 2016

The plagiarism is evidence that these people are frauds and liars.

L. Coyote

(51,129 posts)
34. "The plagiarism is evidence that these people are frauds and liars." Liars who protesteth too much,
Thu Jul 21, 2016, 04:43 PM
Jul 2016

and call Dems liars. They are the ones making this an issue we cannot ignore.

And, the response forced out the speechwriter, who then supplies enough evidence to convict Trump of about five criminal campaign finance law violations. Thanks everyone who contributed to the uproarious fire back.

yardwork

(61,608 posts)
11. Nobody is attacking Melania, and it's about a lot more than the candidate's wife.
Thu Jul 21, 2016, 03:20 PM
Jul 2016

Democrats have a very bad habit of letting go of things that the opposition does.

yardwork

(61,608 posts)
12. The Trump campaign chairman never heard of Meredith McIver and can't get her name right.
Thu Jul 21, 2016, 03:21 PM
Jul 2016

Does Meredith McIver exist? If not, this is a really, really big story.

L. Coyote

(51,129 posts)
36. This is a big story now because she does exist and she implicated Trump in criminal conduct.
Thu Jul 21, 2016, 04:46 PM
Jul 2016

And she is now lawyered up to the hilt, no doubt.

And at Dick Cheney's undisclosed location (his ranch)

tableturner

(1,682 posts)
14. Even IF McIver is real, it is NOT exculpatory for Melania
Thu Jul 21, 2016, 03:40 PM
Jul 2016

Even IF McIver is real, it is NOT exculpatory for Melania, and she would STILL be guilty of knowingly plagiarizing:

1.Melania sends to the writer exact verbiage from Michelle’s speech, and knows it is Michelle's
2.Writer sends back speech with the verbiage intact
3.Melania sees this verbiage intact
4.Again, Melania knows the verbiage is Michelle’s
5.In the end, she uses it anyway, KNOWING IT IS MICHELLE'S
6.Trump campaign admits that the verbiage put in by McIver came from Melania via Michelle’s speech
7.Trump campaign says it is the McIver’s fault it was in Melania’s speech
8.That is an obvious lie since Melania knew it was Michelle’s verbiage in the first place, saw it again in McIver’s speech she received, and then used that verbiage anyway, knowing it was Michelle’s verbiage
9.Melania herself is an absolute, purposeful plagiarizer
10.Melania shows a pattern of dishonesty via the speech and with Melania's AND THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN’S REPEATED PURPOSEFUL LIES ABOUT HER DEGREE
11.The GOP, which goes ballistic on anything it can to bash either Obama even with regard to well meant ideas, would go BEYOND super ballistic if Michelle did this, but thinks it can excuse Melania on the plagiarism
12.They are lying, fraudulent, hypocrites, which is nothing we did not already know

L. Coyote

(51,129 posts)
18. A couple of corrections to your great list. Good to see someone knows what's happening.
Thu Jul 21, 2016, 03:56 PM
Jul 2016

1.) They claim she read the text over the phone, no paper trail admitted.

7.) McIver says is is her fault.

McIver doesn't work for the campaign, she works for Trump corporate, Trump himself. That makes it a crime and Trump's crime if he knew and this was a willful arrangement.
Trump needs to lawyer up and remain silent.

wheniwasincongress

(1,307 posts)
43. good points
Thu Jul 21, 2016, 05:19 PM
Jul 2016

According to McIver, Melania read her parts of Michelle's speech to her over the phone, so wouldn't Melania recognize those same passages in the written speech that McIver eventually provided her?

bluestateguy

(44,173 posts)
16. Does McIver exist or not?
Thu Jul 21, 2016, 03:49 PM
Jul 2016

Just because her name is on some books doesn't mean she's a real person.

Could be like the fat kid in the movie, Moneyball: a composite character.

rocktivity

(44,576 posts)
40. Merdith McIver lives
Thu Jul 21, 2016, 04:57 PM
Jul 2016

Last edited Thu Oct 27, 2016, 06:14 PM - Edit history (1)

But as mentioned upthread, she works for the Trump organization, not the campaign, and for Trump, not his wife.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/ellievhall/guys-please-this-convention-is-crazy-enough-without-meredith


rocktivity

L. Coyote

(51,129 posts)
17. We may not have the long form birth certificate yet, but she exists.
Thu Jul 21, 2016, 03:50 PM
Jul 2016

Plenty of details in this compilation thread in GD 2016:

Writer of Melania Trump's "First Lady" Speech Says Melania Lied.

You missed the big news, Trump may face criminal charges. Follow link above for details.

yardwork

(61,608 posts)
20. I see no proof in that thread that Meredith McIver is a real person.
Thu Jul 21, 2016, 04:05 PM
Jul 2016

Piers Morgan's tweet that he knows her is not proof.

Is she willing to be interviewed?

L. Coyote

(51,129 posts)
26. You see the photograph of her? Her books? Plenty of other tweets from her friends and
Thu Jul 21, 2016, 04:26 PM
Jul 2016

associates are out there. What do you think happened? Did Trump go back in time to create her?

Let's not turn this place into CT central by trying to sell a bill of goods that Trump would sell a fake person for an attempted cover-up with a fake letter that solidly evidenced his wife lied. Just accept that they inadvertently admitted to campaign finance law violations and invest in popcorn futures.

TransitJohn

(6,932 posts)
19. The Trump campaign is totally like an episode of
Thu Jul 21, 2016, 03:58 PM
Jul 2016

It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia. A hare-brained scheme executed by a bunch of narcissistic asshats.

George II

(67,782 posts)
21. If what he's now saying is true, he's essentially calling Melania Trump a liar:
Thu Jul 21, 2016, 04:11 PM
Jul 2016

“I asked Melania Trump what the story was about and she insisted, and I believed her, that these were her words.”

If that were Bill or Hillary Clinton Jason Chafitz would already have a Congressional hearing scheduled for next week and issued subpoenas to have Hillary appear.

rocktivity

(44,576 posts)
25. But everyone should give a shit about this
Thu Jul 21, 2016, 04:22 PM
Jul 2016

because it says that the Trump camp has a mole rat infestation -- and I am NOT referring to the rodent.




rocktviity

L. Coyote

(51,129 posts)
28. A complaint has been filed with the FEC and Trump may face criminal charges. But, move on, nothing?
Thu Jul 21, 2016, 04:31 PM
Jul 2016

Not to mention these are the very people who want to "burn the witch" and justify their madness because they claim she lied. This goes to the foundation of their attacks, it is very relevant and it completely destroys their credibility.

gratuitous

(82,849 posts)
27. They're not blaming Hillary Clinton anymore?
Thu Jul 21, 2016, 04:29 PM
Jul 2016

I suppose that's progress of a sort, like when the lying little brat from down the street stops blaming his imaginary friend for throwing that rock through your window. These are allegedly grown people flailing around like this. How pathetic do they have to get before the popular media just quit believing every stupid thing that falls out of Manafort's mouth?

 

Sheepshank

(12,504 posts)
35. If I recall McIntyre's letter (on Trump letterhead)......
Thu Jul 21, 2016, 04:45 PM
Jul 2016

she said that Melania gave her the extra statements to include in the speech. So Manafort is still not getting the story straight.

None of us knew" that Meredith McIver, the woman who has since admitted to lifting parts of a speech by First Lady Michelle Obama

L. Coyote

(51,129 posts)
38. The Dallas News is spinning a story of idiocy to put the best light on Trump's criminal problem.
Thu Jul 21, 2016, 04:55 PM
Jul 2016

Published: 21 July 2016 10:13 AM so they have no excuse for not telling the whole story.

rocktivity

(44,576 posts)
44. "A person (Melania) has always liked is Michele Obama" -- too much information?
Thu Jul 21, 2016, 08:28 PM
Jul 2016

Last edited Tue Dec 26, 2017, 03:23 PM - Edit history (1)

I (am) an in-house staff writer at the Trump Organization...

In working with Melania Trump on her recent First Lady speech, we discussed many people who inspired her and messages she wanted to share with the American people. A person she has always liked is Michele Obama.

How ironic that is there is now a question as to whether McIver should have written the speech since she's an employee of the Trump organization rather than the Trump campaign. But it's been raised as a legality -- it needs to be raised for a practical reason as well.


"A person (Melania) has always liked is Michele Obama."

How does this appall me? Let me count the ways -- starting with the most obvious one.

With the sole exception of Hillary Clinton and her spouse, Barack Obama and his spouse are supposed to be the greatest natural enemies of Donald Trump and his spouse. I'm certainly not saying that Melania SHOULDN'T like or admire Michelle, and perhaps it's possible to embrace people without embracing their political stances. But as a candidate for First Lady, Melania is now on Republican presidential campaign "company time" where it should be a matter of instinct (if not logic) to avoid seeking moral guidance from Democrats -- it is NOT the smartest way to get voted in.

Of course, the reason why we know that Melania likes Michelle is because McIver spelled it out in her statement. As satisfying as it would be to place all the blame on McIver (especially since she's described as a registered Democrat), you do have to give her the benefit of the doubt (especially since she is NOT described as Trump campaign worker). Still, if Melania was incapable of seeing that she should not be using Michelle Obama as a role model even with her words rewritten, is it wrong to wonder why McIver, given her professional ghostwriting background, didn't see a red flag?

Of course, this all hinges on whether or not the statement is actually true. According to Trump's campaign manager, the speech was the result of "a team of writers" whose choice of words just happened to reflect Michelle's "on occasion." The day after McIver's confession, however, he "asked Melania Trump what the story was about and she insisted, and I believed her, that these were her words...None of us knew (McIver) was even involved in the process.” I can buy that -- it makes sense that the Trump campaign writers wouldn't know what the Trump organization writers were doing (which the way it SHOULD be). And it would explain why it took 48 hours to come up with the "right" culprit. But shouldn't Melania and McIver run the draft past the campaign manager anyway?

Duh Donald(TM) will be delivering his convention acceptance speech very shortly, and a copy of it has already been released. I'm willing to bet that the Trump campaign gave it a clean bill of health first!


rocktivity
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