So what would a sensor cost that checks body heat in the back seat, and if

[jtuck004]

it senses the car off, the front seat empty, and a body in the back, a little chip starts honking the horn and blinking the lights?

$3?

One can get a whole house alarm and wiring for $15 a month and still pay employees from that - with the equipment thrown in - so sensors aren't that expensive.

Regardless, pretty cheap.

Georgia police investigating deaths of twin girls as hot car incident
...
Last month, a Dallas toddler became the 21st child to die in a hot car this year in the United States...That figure is nearly twice as high as the number of children who died by this time last year...
...
"You can't buy a car (today) that doesn't turn your headlights off for you or remind you to turn off your headlights," said Fennell, who argues these changes in cars show that the auto industry knows people are human and will forget to do things like turn off the car's lights.

"And the question just begging to be answered is, who has decided it's more important not to have a dead car battery than a dead baby?
...

http://www.cnn.com/2016/08/04/us/twin-girls-die-in-georgia-hot-car-incident/index.html

[kiva]

1. There are many low tech ways

to remind parents, this article mentions some - leaving your cell phone/briefcase/purse in the back seat, putting a stuffed animal next to you in the front seat, and I've seen several others. The problem is simply that parents don't think it could happen to them and so don't take these precautions.

[jtuck004]

2. We don't leave it up to them to prevent a dead battery. Wouldn't cost any more.

And I am not sure it isn't negligence not to. I see the wisdom of the suggestions, but that is just one more thing to accidentally forget one day.

The problem may well be a more distracted life, trying to cover all the bases and most people are simply exhausted. Hard to tell people to just be less tired.

Technically we could fix the problem rather simply, and cheaply. It's just prioritizing.

[awoke_in_2003]

3. Or zero tech

Which means "pull your head out of your ass, realize the universe doesn't revolve around you, and remember your kid". Zero tech, zero cost. Fuck everyone who doesn't get it.

[pnwmom]

9. No. The problem with your attitude is the child is dead and the death could have been prevented.

And parents are human, and often tired, or overwhelmed, and make mistakes.

No parent has ever meant to leave their child to die in the backseat.

[TipTok]

13. Several have actually....

... and some have gone to prison for it.

There's no fixing stupid.

[Frank Cannon]

23. You can never design anything to be foolproof.

Nature will always design a more perfect fool.

Let's face it: there are a great many people in this world who just shouldn't have kids, period.

[LanternWaste]

45. I imagine many people pretend themselves wise enough to know who should or should not have children.

Let's face it: we imagine many people pretend themselves wise enough to know who should or should not have children.

One wonders if that most righteous, most earned and most justified indignation at the human race is merely an unwitting reflection of perfection of nature you referenced...

[Frank Cannon]

46. Can you restate that in simpler terms?

Because I'm not that smart, and I'm still trying to figure out how any parent suited for the responsibility of parenthood would leave their children to bake in a hot car.

[lostnfound]

11. That's really helpful.

Have you ever been pregnant? On cold medicine? Had a parent or loved one die? Suffered from brain chemical imbalances? Changed your routine and realized your brain was on autopilot on the old routine? Been worried sick about one kid enough to take your mind off of the other one?

Have you ever thought hour brain is just superior to a third of the human race because you're present in the moment?

If Albert Einstein left his kid in a hot car because he was lost in thought about the theory of relativity or space-time relationships, would you yell at him to pull his head out of his ass and realize the world doesn't revolve around him? And after you did that, and he wakes up to reality suddenly, would his kid bounce be,mro life and everything would be all better?

Jeez.

[pnwmom]

15. +1. nt

[LanternWaste]

44. the horn, the seat belt each received your same righteous condemnation as well...

I'm sure the same sentiment was applied when the rear-view mirror was introduced as well. Someone thinking themselves more clever than they are simply dismissed the idea as "remember to look around you. Zero tech. Zero cost. Fuck everyone..."

No doubt, the horn, the seat belt and the reinforced body all received your same righteous condemnation as well. Oh dear, were we all so as clever, as careful and as cautious as you, the world would be mistake free.

And again, "fuck everyone who doesn't get it..." because it adds so much to so very, very little.

[unblock]

53. studies have shown this can happen to anybody.

it can and has happened to rich people, poor people, well-educated, poorly educated, moms, dads, you name it.

real life means people get too little sleep at times, get stressed out, fall into routines, get thrown off of routines, get distracted, and so on. and this means we forget things sometimes. even important things sometimes. yes, even our own kids.

just because you can't fathom it or imagine it happening to you doesn't mean it can't happen to other perfectly reasonable and responsible people.


just imagine, for example, that you're on your normal commute. it's a friday morning, it's been a rough week. not enough sleep, big presentation today. you're driving and mentally reciting your speech, anticipating questions, planning answers. then you come up to unexpected road work. you have to take a detour and now you're going to be late. you're still trying to think about your presentation but you also have to think about a slightly different route to work all while dreading your boss's face when you show up late. you finally get to work and rush up the stairs. whew! you got there on time, you give your presentation and everything is great.

you go back to your desk and listen to your voicemail. it's the day care center wondering if you're still planning on dropping off your kid. oh, crap! your spouse normally does that but today she couldn't so you agreed to, but you forgot! the baby fell asleep and didn't make a peep the entire trip!


of course, 99.99% of the time, you'd remember the kid. people forgetting their kid doesn't happen very often.

but are you still absolutely sure it couldn't happen to you, or someone else you think of as a responsible person, not even 0.01% of the time?

[awoke_in_2003]

60. Twice that I remember

I have spoken on this matter. Twice I have been pummeled. While I do not fully understand how this happens, maybe I realize that it does. One must always re-think their positions. The technology already exists- if someone in my car isn't wearing a seat belt I am informed. It would be easy to apply this for this purpose. I apologize for my callousness

[Hekate]

4. That is an excellent point

[NutmegYankee]

5. Swaddled in clothing a baby may not be enough of a heat source to register.

And if the interior surface is hot from sitting in the sun, it's likely at the same temperature or hotter.

[JawJaw]

7. Yes, heat detection might not be the best option.

But a motion/sound detector would be an inexpensive component to build in to the interior car roof, perhaps.

[TexasBushwhacker]

47. Weight would work

It seems pretty simple to me. Turn the car off and the sensor beeps until the baby is picked up.

[JawJaw]

6. Good Idea.

Maybe the horn could sound in an S.O.S. pattern, as well, so that a by-stander would hopefully not assume "it's just another alarm going off by mistake"

[Lithos]

52. Why not just roll down the window and unlock the door?

But the technical issue is that it is impossible to check by a heat or pressure sensor. Heat is that the body is not the hottest thing there is - the car itself is hotter - that's the issue and cause of death. Pressure sensors don't work because you can leave a suit case in the back that has the weight. You can't really detect there is a kid back there.

I've thought the best way would be a smart baby car seat which can talk to the car via Bluetooth or something. Like a garage opener, you'd program it to a base station in the car which would trigger the horns to go - possibly allow unroll the windows or unlock the doors if the temperature got severe enough. If the car seat is out of the car (i.e., you got the baby), then it would be fine.

L-

[flor-de-jasmim]

8. My husband says that in Denmark (and probably elsewhere) taxis are

equipped with all sorts of sensors (including a weight sensor) and cameras, so the technology already exists. I am not sure if simply honking at the time will be of help (except in cases where the children are truly forgotten), because the parent can still think he/she is "only going to be a few minutes". I wonder if an alarm to the phone (at least for those who have their phones always on and nearby) might be a good solution. After 5 minutes and EVERY minute thereafter there is a message that the temperature in the car is changing--maybe even the temperature could be measured and relayed, the child/pet is still in the car, and (in the case of children, at least) that after 15 (20?) minutes a signal will be sent to the police (or other alarm center).

[Nevernose]

10. A sensor measuring the weight in the car seat would be easier

Turn the engine off, and if something is still in the car seat, the horn honks or something.

[athena]

22. What if you have a bag there?

What if you're traveling long-distance and have to stop for lunch, and you have a bag sitting in the back seat because you either choose not to put it in the trunk, or the trunk is already full?

[caraher]

27. Then just provide an alarm override inside the car

If you have a bag and the alarm goes off, you just silence the alarm and get on with your day.

But if you actually left your child, you'd think, "What's that about?" and take a look.

Any sensor-based alarm system is vulnerable to nuisance alarms; they key is to make clearing them not-too-odious while still accomplishing the primary goal of prompting a second look.

[Iggo]

33. Then the alarm would just let you know you left your bag there.

Minor inconvenience compared to leaving a baby in a hot car.

[That Guy 888]

12. A monitor on the child safety seat belt, that works with the car lock remote?

If the belt is still fastened when the car is remotely locked it sets off a "child left inside" alarm and/or doesn't lock the car.

I know it seems obvious to people that babies shouldn't be locked in cars. I'm not sure how it breaks down, but it seems like for every "I was only going to be gone for a second" story there's a different story involving an overworked, stressed, single parent who did not intend to leave their child in a hot car.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

14. This could be a start

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-gm-wants-to-prevent-child-heatstroke-deaths/

Looks like it detects if the back door has been opened and closed, and if so, reminds you to check the back seat once the ignition is turned off.

[blogslut]

16. How about a door chime device?

Every time a car door is opened, instead of a bell sound, a voice: "Check all passengers"

[Frank Cannon]

24. I suggest something even more effective.

A soundboard recording of Sam Kinison saying, "Hey, dumbass, GET YOUR FUCKING KID OUT OF THE CAR!" Played at ear-splitting levels.

[Lee-Lee]

17. Probably better to work it into the car seat

That gets it out sooner as people buy new car seats more often than new cars. And Mediciad covers car seats for poor families.

Work a weight sensor in and a temperature sensor and when the seat is occupied and the temp rises over a certain point strobe lights flash and an alarm sounds.

[aikoaiko]

18. weight sensor would do it. The car seats would insulate body heat.

Or maybe something on the ceiling like an infrared sensor might work.

All cheap and reasonable.

[Locrian]

19. there are a bunch of devices

http://www.cnet.com/news/some-truly-useful-tech-a-sense-a-life-sensor-for-your-childs-babies-car-seat/

[FSogol]

20. My Jeep Wrangler (hardly the most electronic of vehicles) has a weight sensor for the front

passenger that turns off the passenger air bag is no one or someone under 100 pounds is sitting there.

Something like that for the back, calibrated differently, and sounding an alarm would work.

[KittyWampus]

21. If auto manufacturers don't start soon, they will be successfully sued. The technology exists

and manufacturers are responsible for engineering safety into their products.

[Lurker Deluxe]

61. Crazy talk ....

If someone was going to sue the auto makers for anything like that it would be cell phone/speed/alcohol.

The three leading causes for death in a car ... distraction/speed/alcohol.

I would cost little to make cell phones unusable while moving in any new car.

It would cost zero to make any new car not be able to go faster than 80.

It would cost very little to put a "blow and go" into all new cars.

Auto makers are not responsible for engineering safety into anything, they are responsible to meet all regulations put forth by the government. Pretty much you get what you pay for outside of that, to think that a Ford Fiesta is as safe to drive as a Volvo S60 is insanity and you certainly could not sue Ford because of it.

You could no more sue an auto maker for a child death from negligence as you could the bathtub maker for a kid drowning in one.

[Thor_MN]

25. My car will not let me lock the doors if the key fob is inside the car.

Make an anklet that you leave on the infant that the car can "see".

[zipplewrath]

26. False alarm rate

The usual problem with these kinds of devices is the error rates. There are 2 errors that are very common.

1) Doesn't go off when it should

2) Goes off when it shouldn't

If you get too many of #1, the devices tend to get turned off or not used.

Quite honestly, the best solution here for everyone is a car that doesn't get that hot. Yeah, that's a tuff nut to crack, but in the end it would solve a lot of problems, including ones that happen far more often than this. But beyond that, the car seat itself is the place to put these kinds of technologies.

[citood]

29. I don't think a heat sensor would work

A lot of kids are in car seats, and the entire interior gets really hot anyway - its the whole reason this is dangerous.

But yes, there is probably some way to technically achieve this.

Would people buy it as an option? Would it be made mandatory? I dunno.

Honestly, I don't know how these events even happen. In this Georgia tragedy, the babies were in the car for 9 hours!?!? Whatever the hell was going on with the dad, he could have just as easily left them in the bathtub for 9 hours...IOW there is no way to 100% guarantee people won't leave children unattended, all the time.

[backscatter712]

30. There's different ways to do this.

For airbags, there are body-weight sensors built into the seats, smart enough to tell the difference between an adult and a child, which feed input to the airbag controller chips, so that chip can decide based on the collision which airbags to deploy, and whether to deploy them at full power or partial power.

What the OP suggests can be done. Maybe in this case, a combination of body weight sensors and motion detectors.

[cherokeeprogressive]

31. How about an RFID tag in the baby's car seat that prevents the doors from locking.

[Lithos]

54. Close to my idea

RFID is hackable - needs to be a bit more active.

L-

[cherokeeprogressive]

55. What would be the purpose of hacking a child's car seat? Causing more of them to die?

How about a motion sensor in the dome light fixture that unlocks the doors. That would work both for animals and children.

The car could be sold with a warning behind the sun visor: THIS CAR WILL NOT STAY LOCKED WITH OCCUPANTS INSIDE UNLESS THE BYPASS SWITCH IS ACTIVATED WITHIN TWO (2) MINUTES AFTER THE DOORS ARE CLOSED.

With a system like this, an adult can stay in a car with minimal fear while the other runs into the liquor store in a bad neighborhood for more Patron Silver.

[Lithos]

57. Hacking the car...

To unlock the doors to steal it...

L-

[csziggy]

32. There are various devices already for sale or in development

Just search YouTube for "child sensor for car." Notice that some of these date from 2007 and earlier.

[Orrex]

34. A device on your keychain...

that chimes if you get more than, say, 50 feet from your car while the lock is engaged on the child's seat.

[haele]

35. How about Bluetooth carseat use detector.

When the harness is clicked around a baby or a toddler, it activates an alert that is either linked to the car or to a person's cell phone, and alerts them if the car is parked and the door is opened, or if the phone goes beyond 10 feet of the car seat it's linked to so long as the harness is engaged. That way, if a driver or passenger attempts to leave a car without disengaging the harness on the car seat, the alert sounds.

That should help reduce toddler in the car problems, and it's not too expensive to add to the manufacture of a car seat.

Just a thought out there for free.

Haele

[LeftyMom]

36. The first time it fails that lawsuit would be crippling.

[EllieBC]

43. That would be a problem.

In a society obsessed with lawsuits. "The machine didn't think for me!".

[Glassunion]

37. How many devices should a car have?

I've heard arguments right here on DU that cars should also have explosive devices that'll blow out a car's windows in case of a water landing so someone could escape if their car was submerged.

You know your kid is in the back seat. Moving a toddler is at times like supplying an army on the move. You put them in their seat, you buckle them up, you pack a shit-ton of toys, diapers, food, drinks, etc... This parent didn't forget, they didn't give a crap, and figured they'd only be a few minutes... Then a few minutes more... Then a few minutes more after that. They are selfish, and wanted to shop. To blame car manufacturers for the selfishness of the parents is lazy. If you're too much of a selfish dipshit to take your kid out of the car, you shouldn't have children.

[jtuck004]

38. We will bury about twice as many kids this year, for some reason. I wonder if that means

twice as many pets and service animals too?

The Foster Friess Memorial Method doesn't seem to be working.

[Glassunion]

39. You can't fix selfish.

No matter how many "devices" you add, or solutions you put in place, people will still kill their pets, or children. All you're suggesting is shifting the liability. Not my fault, it's the car manufacturer's fault that I intentionally left my kid in the car while I shopped.

[jtuck004]

40. So should telephones only ring once, and if you don't catch it, too bad? lol

We live in a world of devices we can't possibly keep up with.

No one is suggesting relieving the caretaker of their responsibility. But if we can make you better, and increase the quality of life for a trivial amount, it seems silly not to.

It's easily as important as adding safety glass and taking the chrome bullets off the front bumper.

[Glassunion]

48. So what would this new device be called?

The "I left my todder in the car in the hot sun, but the car should scream at how stupid I am so other people may help my baby" device?

But you actually are relieving the parent of responsibility. The first time the device fails because stupid just ran into the store for a "minute" and the car did not warn passers by that there was a baby cooking in the back seat, the car company is going to be sued.

[jtuck004]

51. We should call on you for the eulogy. rofl. n/t

[cherokeeprogressive]

49. According to the CarBot supporters, enough devices to get from Point A to B, C, D, E, F, and G

without having to be driven.

Why not have a device that keeps your children safe from your own inattention if all the rest is possible?

[Glassunion]

50. You want to save children and make a real impact?

Make a device that prevents you from using your f***ing phone in the car. It is terrible that we are on track to lose about 4 kids a month in hot cars... But from the time the OP posted, to now, we have lost about 5 children in accidents. The CarBot folks are right. If you take driving away from the human, we can save over a thousand children a year if the technology is only 50% better. It is the #1 cause of death of children. So.. should auto makers work on saving 12 to 24 children a year, or over 2,000?

Like I said, the first time the "I'm a shit parent" detector fails, or people ignore it, the auto maker is going to get sued. We are a litigious nation, and there are no bounds to what we will sue for.

In this particular case, the parent was arrested and charged. Why is that? Because the car failed, or because they were a selfish ass hole?

[Lurker Deluxe]

62. Without a doubt

The leading causes of auto accidents in order are:

Distraction
Speed
Alcohol

All three of these could be fixed for very little cost in any new vehicle. The cost would be trivial compared to the lives saved. The first one should be "blow to go" in any new vehicle.

Period.

Fuck your drunk ass ... Uber, your car won't start.

[Eleanors38]

41. What if you're screwing back there?

[EllieBC]

42. Evenflo created a seat with a sensor.

http://www.evenflo.com/sensorsafe/

[Ilsa]

56. General Motors is working on this.

http://www.gmc.com/gmc-life/suvs/acadia-rear-seat-reminder.html

Seat Reminder does not actually detect objects in the rear seat. It works by monitoring Acadia’s rear doors. If either rear door is opened and closed within ten minutes before the vehicle is started, or if they are opened and closed while the vehicle is running, the feature is intended to activate.

Once the vehicle is switched off, Acadia is designed to sound five audible chimes and display a visual message within the instrument cluster’s Driver Information Center, which can help remind the driver to take a look at the rear seat before departing.

The feature is active only once each time the vehicle is turned on and off, and would require re-activation on a second trip. Additionally, under some circumstances, the system may activate even though nothing is in the rear seat. For example, if a child were dropped off at school without the vehicle being turned off, the Rear Seat Reminder would still be activated.

[Warpy]

58. A pressure sensor in the seat would be better

It could be calibrated to an empty car seat and alarm if it was heavier.

Forget putting a case of beer on the seat and stopping for gas on the way home, though.

[LisaM]

59. We also need more shaded parking

As a dog owner, I've had to deal with this many times. Parking lots are too hot. I am not defending leaving children unattended in cars by any means, but there were times I needed to leave my dogs in the car, and finding parking with adequate shade was sometimes difficult.