Guess which one of these two men is still alive.

[kpete]

https://twitter.com/TUSK81/status/765713664280109060

[heaven05]

1. I must say

I knew right away, which is still walking this earth.....

[arithia]

2. I feel so badly for Pinckney's family

His mother stated to Pennlive reporters that she had de-escalated the situation (family dispute) already and was sitting inside with her son, talking calmly with her head in his hands, when a shadow appeared at the window and opened fire. She stated that the police claimed he had only been tased and that they dragged her physically from the house and from her dying son's side when she realized the extent of the situation.

No attempt at intervention, no attempt at deescalating the situation. They shot him stone cold dead and then stated "oh he had a knife to his mother's throat" as justification for the shooting.

The mother showed Pennlive cameras that there were no marks on her neck, but drag marks on her knees.

Harrisburg is a city with a lot of poverty, a lot of corruption and a very high minority population. Broken Windows policing is still actively (and proudly) peddled by local law enforcement as the solution to crime (more like their budget problems, imo). Local police officials blame "social media" for the BLM movement and any media firestorm over police shootings. They are asshats. If anyone is offended by that term, tough. I speak from experience and do not use that term lightly.

Another mentally ill American dead at the hands of police who shouldn't be.

[Dreamer Tatum]

3. Was the same cop, or even the same police force, involved in both?

If not, this is completely irrelevant.

[arithia]

5. uh...

Lack of police training on how to interact with mentally ill suspects is pretty universal in the US, thus making it relevant.

Bias against black suspects, either conscious or subconscious, which leads to more aggressive police responses and increased perceived threat level, is also pretty universal in the US, thus making it relevant.

[Dreamer Tatum]

7. It's completely irrelevant

Sorry - I get the point, but the point makes no sense.

[arithia]

9. Made perfect sense to me

Then again, I understand how poorly trained and funded the Harrisburg police force is.

I also know how many of them like to hang out at the entrance of Polyclinic/Harrisburg Hospital talking smack about n-words and other minorities with the security guards like the insecure, uneducated bigots that many of them are.

A mentally ill black man was shot dead in his own home with no attempt at deescalation over a situation that witnesses claim was under control.

Some white kid on a bad drug trip who ate someone's frakin face off is still alive.

The two don't have to live near each other to point out that there are national problems/discrepancies with police practices and response.

What part of that makes no sense?

[Dreamer Tatum]

12. I estimate counterfactuals for a living

So I'm a little sensitive to one thing being utterly incomparable to another.

Carry on.

[arithia]

13. that's... nice?

Personally, I'm a little sensitive to people using fallacies like appeal to authority (ie, their personal educational background/career/knowledge base) as a way to invalidate a point, particularly when that authority has nothing to do with the subject matter.

Counterfactuals do not on face value invalidate years of sociological/anthropological data crunching, psychological analysis of law enforcement or statistical fact about law enforcement training. They do not make the racist cultural myth (one believed by law enforcement and doctors alike) that black people are more aggressive or have a reduced pain capacity go away. They do not make the fact that the vast majority of police are not trained to interact with the mentally ill go away. They do not make the fact that there are real, honest-to-God racists on the Harrisburg police force go away.

If you want to make an actual argument that uses counterfactuals to invalidate such data and research, please carry on.

Otherwise it's completely irrelevant to the discussion.

[Rex]

14. LOL!

[LanternWaste]

8. "I want to compare and contrast apples and oranges, but the apples are from Michiga

"I want to compare and contrast apples and oranges, but the crate of apples is from Michigan and the oranges are from Florida... so sorry, this is completely irrelevant."

[LakeArenal]

4. As an isolated case, possibly irrelevant

But as another case of inequality, bias, institutional racism, it was noted. How many "notes" does a country need to wake itself up. Case after case, we see the same thing. Not irrelevant to kpete and not irrelevant to me.

[Iggo]

6. That's easy. The white guy. (n/t)

[Taitertots]

10. What's your point? The Earl Pinckney shooting was justified and shooting Austin wouldnt have been

Guess whether the cops shot someone when it would possibly save a life (earl pinckney's hostage) or shot someone when it wouldn't save a life (Austin's victim)..

[arithia]

11. Uh...

The "hostage" was Pinckney's mother. She stated that her son was not armed and she was not in danger. Multiple witnesses were present who contested the police account of the shooting.

http://www.pennlive.com/news/2016/08/police_shooting_harrisburg_ear.html

She stated that her daughter made up the knife in the 911 call because she was scared. As a Harrisburg native, I can tell you- the cops only show up quickly if your neighborhood is white or they think a weapon is involved.

[Rex]

15. LOL!