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[TheMastersNemesis]

This message was self-deleted by its author (TheMastersNemesis) on Wed Aug 24, 2016, 02:30 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[jpak]

1. Why do you hate America?

[malaise]

2. If I were a Professor at UT

They'd be looking for new staff

[Calista241]

13. Do you know how hard it is to get tenure at a major institution like that?

Those jobs don't grow on trees and are highly sought after. Changing jobs in academia is not quite unheard of, but it's close.

[malaise]

27. Hehehehehe of course I know

and people do change jobs in academia- way more people than we can count.

[Duckhunter935]

59. Well if they really believed it

some faculty would actually resign. I figure they really like that paycheck more though.

[pennylane100]

85. Well tenure will not do any good

if you are caught in the line of fire and do not live to tell about it.

[Calista241]

124. How many college professors have been shot by anyone at random?

I won't hold my breath for anyone to convince me this is a super critical issue.

[Maraya1969]

178. How long have rules like this been in place? 24 days?

[Act_of_Reparation]

209. One of my wife's collaborators was murdered by a student less than a year ago.

So that's one.

One too fucking many, if you ask me.

[Maraya1969]

179. Wouldn't forcing the professors to allow guns in their cllassroom be the epitome of a hostile work

environment? Besides I would claim a real phobia, (which is true) of people who need to walk around with guns and that it would harm me physically and psychologically. I wonder if the Americans with Disabilities act would cover this.

I'm serious. I would not be able to work under those conditions.

"Definition of Disability

The ADA prohibits discrimination against what it terms a “qualified person with a disability.” This term is defined as 42 U.S.C. § 12102. The term “disability” means, with respect to an individual: “a physical or mental impairment that substantially limits one or more major life activities of such individual"

[TipTok]

188. Someone could claim a 'phobia' of Blacks, Jews or women showing ankle...

Doesn't mean that any of those groups would be under any obligation to restrict their rights or daily lives to accommodate.

[Duckhunter935]

193. How would those professors

Know a person had a concealed weapon in their classroom?

[drray23]

206. i dont think you know how it is in academia.

It is indeed hard to get tenure. Those who do get it mainly because of the strength of their research program. Being good at teaching also helps but having a strong well funded research program is key.

Funding is obtained via grants from external institutions (not the university) such as the nsf, nih, bes, etc.. They are tied to the prof and his/her research team. It is actually pretty easy for a well established professor to pack up and leave for another university where they will be given tenure as soon as they are hired. They are often courted. They bring a research team, prestige and millions in funding.

[Divine Discontent]

47. I'd look for new work if I couldn't keep guns out

Money isn't everything. And I surely wouldn't go to a school where some bigoted Trump luvin Richy spoiled rotten brat or some redneck brought in their gun to the classroom, so they could accidentally have it misfire, or worse!

[malaise]

62. Precisely

I once had a security guy in my lecture - just his dress suggested that he was carrying his gun. The rule is all weapons are left at the police post. I stopped my lecture, took him to the Dean and it was never repeated.

I am not tolerating weapons in lecture rooms - you could be the fugging Commissioner of Police. THankfully I have retired.

[Divine Discontent]

148. That took care of that! LoL n/t

[tblue37]

60. Here at Kansas University, guns will be allowed on campus starting in January.

I truly hate the idea.

[greymattermom]

78. Perfect timing for me

phased retirement at KUMC, last classes are this year. No students with guns in the hospital for me.

[malaise]

83. +1,000

No No No No No!!

[Skittles]

3. biggest cowards on the planet

can't go anywhere without enhancement

[AwakeAtLast]

39. They probably drive Hummers

[alittlelark]

121. ....and have "Trump sized hands"....

[jonno99]

4. Does that include police officers too? Oh wait, I forget - when are we supposed to trust the cops?

[TheMastersNemesis]

6. You Have A Point On That Too. Certainly Have To Wonder These Days.

It does seem like we have trigger happy police.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

16. I'm extra cautious around cops too.

I make sure I have my license and registration already on the dashboard before a cop approaches me during a traffic stop, and I keep my hands visible on the steering wheel. I act friendly even when blinded by their flashlights.

The truth is that I mostly want the cop out of my life ASAP, although I usually understood why I got pulled over a few times in the past. I acted the same way when the traffic stops were bogus too... such as when I was a teenager with other teens in the car, and the cop was clearly fishing for evidence of drug possession or something else.

[dubyadiprecession]

33. They are trained to shoot to kill...

even though these cops hone their skills at the shooting range. They can actually shoot the arm holding the gun,but prefer not to have witnesses if they can help it.

[Fla_Democrat]

64. I know, I saw that on.....

Starsky and Hutch. or was it Magnum P.I.? Hell, I've even seen a few documentarys like... The 3 Amigos (with Chase, Short and Martin) where they shot the guns out of people's hands. Sure, it stung a little, but no one was bleeding...

[Duckhunter935]

65. Sure they can, lol. Quit watching TV and movies

Just where is that ever tought? They are trained to shoot center mass to stop the threat. FYI, they actually get very little range time.

[cwydro]

110. What utter nonsense.

"Shoot the arm holding the gun"

[sarisataka]

126. I saw that happen.

I forget if it was Dragnet or The FBI but the cop shot a gun out of a guys hand from 50 yards away!

[Binkie The Clown]

183. Then you read newspaper stories like:

The police fired 137 shots, 4 of which hit the victim.

[cwydro]

109. You must get pulled over a lot.

I can't remember the last time I got pulled.

Oh yeah, I had a taillight out, so I do remember.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

114. Not in the last 15 years or so.

I was pulled over a lot as a teenager, especially if a cop saw other teen heads in the car. I'd come to a complete stop at a stop sign, but get pulled over for supposedly not coming to a complete stop. That sort of thing.

I've had about five speeding tickets in my lifetime, I think. Those were all deserved.

My Dad told me when I first started driving that cops have dangerous jobs and they can be paranoid, so I should make sure my hands are highly visible at all times.

[Binkie The Clown]

184. I was pulled over in 1962, but not once since then. n/t

[SecularMotion]

40. It's a job requirement

[JonathanRackham]

99. A job requirement?

Does that include shooting unarmed people?

Piss on the police state.

[sarisataka]

134. Well ok then

Black Indianapolis man shot by cops after calling police to report robbery

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/king-black-man-shot-cops-calling-report-robbery-article-1.2762748

Early Tuesday in Indianapolis, an African-American woman was being carjacked in front of her home in her working class neighborhood. She ran back in the house, told her husband, who is also black, and they called the police to report the robbery. That seemed to be the right and safe thing to do.

As the police pulled up, the husband opened the garage to their home and was immediately shot in the gut by police.

They claim they believed he was the robber and that because he had a firearm of his own, they shot him in self-defense.

He, of course, was not the robber. In fact, police have yet to even say if they caught the robber. Since they dusted the car for fingerprints, it appears that the actual man committing a crime got away and the man who wanted to protect his wife and family was instead shot and currently fighting for his own life in the hospital.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10028119353

Of course I have been told here this is apparently legal.

[sarisataka]

81. Police are the only ones trustworthy enough

and with the training to be allowed to handle firearms. They are also a bunch of racist bastards with a license to kill.

Doublethink- it's easy once you get used to it.

[bhikkhu]

123. I don't blame cops, but any encounter with an armed person can become deadly

as in the common "he went for my gun" story. And if there were no gun? Then we'd be more like Britain, where police are just as effective, but hardly ever kill anybody.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

5. I feel the same way.

I'm likewise cautious around frightened animals.

[TheCowsCameHome]

8. Then this is a 2 for 1.

[hlthe2b]

19. I'd rather encounter a rabid dog than

a testosterone-pumped or simply clumsy, gun obsessed gun toter. Yes, I DO mean that.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

23. The gun can certainly do more damage.

Unless it's a pack of dogs, they don't frighten me very much even when they seem aggressive. I'd prefer to not get bit and need several stitches before I resolved the conflict, but that's vastly different from a bullet hole in my head.

[JoePhilly]

7. If I see it, I leave. Period.

My kids have always known that if they are at a friend's house, and they see a gun, they are to immediately leave that house or area.

They need not say a word to anyone in this situation. They can and should just leave.

They can tell friends they are leaving, but they do not need to give a reason (nor should they) and they are not to wait for anyone else.

Step one, leave. Get far away from there.

Then call me and I will come get them.

[relayerbob]

25. EXACTLY!!

[Divine Discontent]

41. Yep. Good advice. Thumbs up to your comment.

I used to run around as a friend with this nurse and sing karaoke with her and go look at fun things. This big pushy ego-filled guard who wanted her, invited us over and he prominently displayed his huge handgun that was on the counter between us and him, and bragged about it like we gave a damn. I got us out of there as quickly as I could but not as fast as I should have because you never know when someone with a weapon is gonna go loopy...

The story's clincher - a few days later, I'm singing a duet with her, - a song she asked me to sing with her that they had sang before, and once we finish and they call him up, he walks by me and sure seemed to appear to fire at me with his finger! I turned to her and said never again go around him and I avoided the creep from then on, and she said definitely. She couldn't believe how jealously he behaved. People with guns, especially lots of them are hyper emo, IMHO, as a whole.

Your comment about not making any excuses as to why youre leaving is perfect. You just go. Heck, if people get in your way and ask why you're leaving, you could just say I'll tell you later. Way too many accidental or intentional acts of violence with guns around!


http://cafepress.com/hillaryforamerica2016

[etherealtruth]

43. Exactly .... that is how I have raised my children and despite my old age (54) ....

.... that is how I was raised

[G_j]

173. thank you. nt

[smirkymonkey]

9. Hear, hear!

I agree completely. Fortunately I live in a place where it is extremely rare to ever see anyone (w/ the exception of LEO's) open carry a gun. I would not be able to live in a place where people freely went to the grocery store, movie theater, hospital, etc. freely displaying a firearm. I think you need to be somewhat deranged to think you even need a gun in those situations.

[beevul]

10. "And as a group we have a right to ask you to leave."

And as a group we have a right to ask you to leave.

Leave where?

[TheMastersNemesis]

15. Actually It Could Be Dicey To Ask An Armed Person To Leave.

A better solution is for public place like business to show they will not allow gun carrying customers into their business. Sadly right now the GOP is trying to pass laws that allow armed individuals into an establishment even if the do NOT want them there. I believe they want to give gun toters a right to sue anyone who interferes.

[beevul]

21. So you mean public places.

A better solution is for public place like business to show they will not allow gun carrying customers into their business.

Wait...now it looks like you mean private property.

Sadly right now the GOP is trying to pass laws that allow armed individuals into an establishment even if the do NOT want them there.

I hadn't seen that. Do you have a link?

[yallerdawg]

32. You can look it up with a google search.

Next question.

[beevul]

52. A google search doesn't tell me if what I find is what that poster refers to.

Only that poster can tell me what they were referring to.

Since I support the private property rights of businesses and homes to not allow people carrying, at their discretion, I'm a bit puzzled by the unwillingness to post a link.

[TheMastersNemesis]

94. Ran Into An Article In Passing. Looked Like The GOP Was Considering Right To Sue.

Have not been able to find the link. There was an article regarding the Texas legislature considering passing a law that would NOT allow businesses to keep gun toters out of their establishment. Part of that back lash looks like it was caused by college professors objecting to armed students in their classes.

Subsequently some businesses has posted NO GUNS at the places of business. The GOP essentially believes that guns should be allowed anywhere a person wants to carry one. The legislature excepted BTW.

Some gun owners are mad because they feel they are being discriminated against as gun toters. We are only at the beginning of the open carry debate. Actually it would be legal to carry an AR15 with you while shopping or going to the show with as many rounds in you magazine that it will carry.

[yallerdawg]

101. The 2nd Amendment folk...

believe when you post "No Guns" on your private business, you have created an unsafe environment jeopardizing their personal safety - with an open invitation to armed criminals.

Same as public buildings, schools, universities, sports events - political rallies.

"Google" and "Bing" are loaded with links - so are Trump sites, Republican Party platform, NRA, etc., etc., etc.

[awoke_in_2003]

125. Well, if the gun nuts don't feel safe

at those places, maybe they should go elsewhere

[villager]

11. There is a kind of innate mental illness that's clearly "tipped" when someone "needs" open carry...

nt

[TeamPooka]

138. The Cowboy Syndrome. nt

[justhanginon]

12. They are either expecting trouble or possibly going to cause trouble.

In either case, I am outta there! I want nothing to do with them or their sad ilk.

[katmondoo]

14. I agree

I will stay anywhere near an open carry, I also feel I have a right to not have to feel afraid or threatened by cowards

[JonathanRackham]

17. Technically police are open carry?

Go figure.

[SecularMotion]

42. See post #40

[world wide wally]

18. Sorry, buddy….. You ain't got that right in 'murika

[sinkingfeeling]

20. Ditto for me as well.

[asiliveandbreathe]

22. here here - my visit to the grocery store last week -

yep - a guy with a gun on his hip - I notified the manager and he explained the open carry to me..AZ is out of their mind...Kroger is as well -- .I was floored..so when I got home I looked up Kroger - I have been shopping at this store for 20 years....I found this link -

http://momsdemandaction.org/groceriesnotguns/

Not only did I call - but signed the petition as well...Safeway isn't out of my way too much..the list of stores at the link are grocery stores that do not allow guns...Safeway is one of them...

be well all..we need to stop this madness...everywhere...

[narnian60]

36. Just signed.

[Purveyor]

37. I saw my first open carry in AZ back in '82 when a boyfriend and I took

an across country road trip and stop at a fast food joint for lunch.

It was surprising for us being from Michigan and all.

Now I see it all the time here in Michigan.

Don't really have a problem with it but I prefer concealing myself.

[Person 2713]

55. All 4 I frequent are listed under gun sense stores . Thanks

[Go Vols]

24. meh

Last edited Tue Aug 23, 2016, 09:53 PM - Edit history (1)

You can carry guns in bars here,I know there are a few with pistols every time I go.
Can't think of a shooting in a bar (with a legally carried gun) since made legal 7 years ago.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

26. It happens in Ohio.

I won't say that it's worse ever since Ohio made it legal to carry guns into bars, but it seems to be the case based on local news reports. I know it happened a few times before that law was passed too.

Bars are bad news, period.

[SecularMotion]

44. Gunfights in bars are a common occurrence

https://www.google.com/search?q=gunfight+in+bars&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

[SecularMotion]

199. Now you're moving the goalposts?

The Orlando shooter's father raised a key question about the night of the massacre

The father of Omar Mateen is questioning why security at the Orlando gay nightclub Pulse was unable to stop his son before he killed 49 people early Sunday morning.

Mateen had also worked as a security guard and had a Florida firearms license allowing him to carry concealed weapons.

http://www.businessinsider.com/how-did-orlando-shooter-enter-pulse-club-2016-6

[mwrguy]

28. Toters are crazy

I don't blame you a bit.

[shadowrider]

49. The number of legal "toters" who commit crime

in 6 months is less than a weekend in gun free Chicago.

[Exilednight]

229. Chicago has a high crime rate due to ease of access in Indiana.

The majority of gun recovered from crimes in Chicago are often traced back to legal purchases in Indiana.

Uniformity is key in these laws.

[Lee-Lee]

235. It's already illegal to buy a gun in Indiana and sell it in Illinois

No handgun can be purchased across state lines at all.

Any long gun across state lines must be purchased at a dealer with a background check.

It's illegal to buy at a dealer for someone else.

It's illegal to transport firearms across state lines with intent to resell.

It's illegal to sell firearms for profit without a license.

None of these laws impact the problem in Chicago- I doubt people already breaking all those laws will be impacted at all by any new laws.

[bigwillq]

29. Open carry doesn't bother me

I'd rather know who is carrying.

[NanceGreggs]

30. I live in Toronto ...

... and I cannot imagine being in any place of business where people are carrying guns.

Had I raised my kids in the States instead of here, I would never have taken them anywhere - restaurants, movies, game arcades, concerts, fairs, etc. - out of fear of the consequences if some tiny-dicked gun carrier got into a altercation with someone, or discharged his weapon by accident.

How many parents and their children have lost their right to be safe, so that a bunch of pistol-packin' idiots can pretend they're characters in a spaghetti western?

[upaloopa]

31. I feel the same as you do.

In all my 70 years there was nothing like what we have now.

My hope is that a liberal Supreme Court will put some sence back in gun laws.

[mwrguy]

133. Heller can be reversed

[colsohlibgal]

34. Ditto

They freak me out and I will never understand it. And the 2nd Amendment is completely misunderstood by them and taken completely out of context. They are insane in my opinion.

I agree with the thought that we need to work to put a stigma on them like cigarette smokers these days. Actually smoking is a chemical addiction as opposed to being big and bad carrying a firearm through a grocery store.

[Harry and old]

35. Do you know of any

Shoot outs/crime that has ever started with a person open carrying ?

[SecularMotion]

48. Gunman kills 3 strangers ‘like he was having a stroll in the park’

Halloween turned into a day of actual horror in Colorado Springs as the scenic city became the setting for a bloody and seemingly random shooting spree.

The normally festive holiday literally went up in flames Saturday morning when a 33-year-old man set his house ablaze and then stalked his neighborhood with a military-style rifle and pistol.

The gunman fatally shot three random people — including a passing bicyclist as he begged for his life — before dying in a shootout with police that left downtown Colorado Springs covered in shattered glass, bullet casings and crime scene cordons.

The gunman’s landlord told the Colorado Springs Gazette he was shocked by the sudden spurt of violence from his quiet tenant.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/11/02/colo-massacre-gunman-kills-3-strangers-like-he-was-having-a-stroll-in-the-park/

Colorado Springs police release tape of 911 call warning of man with gun

A Colorado Springs 911 operator told a distraught caller worried about a man with a rifle and handgun that he had a right to carry the weapons, but she said the fact that he also had gas cans seemed suspicious.

The operator, speaking to the woman just minutes before the gunman opened fire and killed three people, gave the call a non-urgent priority that did not immediately summon police, according to materials released by Colorado Springs police Wednesday.

The caller, Naomi Bettis, called 911 again and tearfully told another operator that she had just witnessed a fatal shooting in front of her home. That call prompted police to send all available officers.

“I just called a few minutes ago — the guy came back out. He fired the gun at somebody, and he is lying in the street dead. Oh, my God! Can you send an ambulance.”

http://www.denverpost.com/2015/11/04/colorado-springs-police-release-tape-of-911-call-warning-of-man-with-gun/

[Harry and old]

91. No wasy thats open carry

A knothead with a gun ...is just that ..that's not open carry.... So the guy has a shovel..is that open dig'in?

[SecularMotion]

100. Did you miss this?

A Colorado Springs 911 operator told a distraught caller worried about a man with a rifle and handgun that he had a right to carry the weapons

[phylny]

50. So happy you came to join us.

George Zimmerman's name comes to mind.

[Skittles]

73. oh yes

LOCKED AND LOADED!

[johnp3907]

102. I predict a short visit.

"Paging billy goat number three!"

[madinmaryland]

116. Ask any person of color how that ends up...

Oh wait, they are all dead.

But when it is a bunch of old angry white teabagger assholes, it ok.

FUCK THE NRA.

[Pakid]

152. It' not the shoot outs

it's the dropped gun that discharges and hits the innocence bystander that is the big problem and that happens all the time from the news stories that I see. Hell who want to go with your family and come home minus one because some gun nut puts his sick need to carry a gun in public ahead of the right of another person to live. Open carry is one of the dumbest ideas to come down the pike in a long time. Stay home if your to afraid to go out in public without your little manhood enhancer

[MicaelS]

38. If they're concealed, how do you know?

The point is, you can't.

[Duckhunter935]

69. That is my question too

[Buzz cook]

105. Some concealed guns are obvious even if you're not an expert

I don't know how many times I've been around concealed gun. But I remember 4 or 5 times when a bulg in a jacket was obviosly a concealed gun. Heck in one case a COB gun was hanging out because the guy's jacket had ridden up his holster.

[shadowrider]

45. Huh? I do not want to be around someone who is carrying a gun openly or even concealed.

How on God's green earth would you know someone is carrying concealed? Do you search everyone that walks through the door?

Here's a hint: You are surrounded by guns everywhere you go but you don't know because, you know, concealed.

If you're that scared, find a job where you can work from home, have your groceries and restaurant food delivered and don't let anyone on your lawn.

I could stand next to you at the grocery store and have 3 firearms on me and you'd never, ever, EVER know.

Tell me, how do you stop that?

[bigwillq]

46. Best. Post. Ever.

[SecularMotion]

54. Ban public carry

[shadowrider]

57. Irrelevant to the discussion

The OP wants to avoid those that open carry/carry concealed.

My question is, how do you avoid someone carrying concealed.

[SecularMotion]

58. You asked the question

Tell me, how do you stop that?

Was it not the answer you were expecting?

[shadowrider]

67. The statement was

quote

I do not want to be around someone who is carrying a gun openly or even concealed.

unquote

You can push to ban open/conceal carry. It requires time and money. You have both, right? There is NO largescale movement to ban either. States keep expanding gun laws.

My question is, how do you NOT be around LEGAL conceal carry people?

[ErikJ]

167. LOL. Try carrying a gun into the courthouse or on the plane.

They are called metal detectors. Maybe it will come to having them everywhere if this wild west mentality persists.

[Duckhunter935]

70. I am waiting for the answer to the great question

[shadowrider]

71. I won't wait long. I have to work in the morning. n/t

[Duckhunter935]

72. Good night

[hunter]

86. How do I stop that? I openly mock gun love.

I don't even think most cops are qualified to carry guns.

Fortunately, or unfortunately, I live in a city where the penalty for open carry is frequently instant death.

It's against the law too, but your average teenage gangster isn't paying attention to the law.

Not that it makes any difference. The average open carry fool isn't much different than the teenage gangster fool.

Both are thinking there's someone out to get them that ought to be shot.

The teenage gangster might be right, but it's very unlikely shit-for-brains college student is going to get into that kind of trouble.

We had a next door neighbor whose son was shot and killed in a drug deal gone bad. I imagine his son was armed too, for "self defense," but it's always the worst psychopaths who shoot first because they don't give a shit. Our neighbor was never the same after that and drank himself to death.

I don't have any heroic gun stories. I don't go gleaning the news for heroic gun stories.

In my personal experience, once the guns come out everything is FUBAR.

I don't need that kind of fucking trouble.

Guns are stupid.

[Harry and old]

95. Who ya going to call ?

So your being beat silly by the local thug ...who do you call the local flower shop for help? Weight watchers ? Tops ?

[yallerdawg]

103. I'd call a member of...

"A well regulated Militia (citizen), being necessary to the security of a free State..."

I call them cops.

[hunter]

104. Who is the bad guy living in your head?

My problem is that I can never imagine anyone I'd care to shoot. So why would I need a gun?

Who would Jesus shoot?

Pick any Jesus you like.

Pick the man in the mirror.

Under what circumstances would you shoot him?

It's okay. The cheapest way to refurbish a slummy apartment is to paint over the blood stains with KILZ.

Guns are stupid.

[Humanist_Activist]

113. If I'm surrounded by guns everywhere I go in St. Louis, those ccw permit holders are violating the..

law. Every major and most minor stores have a firearm forbidden sign up, and if they catch you, they will ask you to leave. And honestly, if they can't be trusted to follow such as a simple rule as that, they shouldn't be trusted owning guns in the first place.

[jtuck004]

118. "Tell me, how do you stop that?" < May I carry a weapon on my person in Idaho?

?
Yes, you may carry a weapon that is clearly visible.
If you are carrying a concealed weapon outside the limits of the city you may do so without a license if you are at least 18 years old and not disqualified under Idaho law from obtaining a concealed weapon license.

You may carry a concealed weapon without a license in city limits if you are at least 21 years of age, a resident of Idaho and not disqualified under Idaho law from obtaining a concealed weapon license.

http://www.ag.idaho.gov/concealedWeapons/concealedWeapons_index.html#May I carry a weapon on my person in Idaho

How to stop licensed concealed carry Idaho style. Get rid of the license.

[quaker bill]

131. First

I would not react to something I do not know is there. That is the obvious answer.

However I would like to address your assertion that I am surrounded by guns.

The theater in Aurora was full of people, but only the shooter was carrying.

The Pulse nightclub was full of people, but only the shooter was carrying.

The classroom at VA tech was full of people, but only the shooter was carrying.

Mass shooters almost never face return fire, except from sworn officers.


If I am "surrounded by guns" it would seem statistically likely that at some point, perhaps even frequently, these mass shooters would face opposing fire, but it seems they almost never do. So I conclude either the guns are not there, or they are there and serve no useful purpose. I will let you pick.

[Straw Man]

181. The thing is ...

The theater in Aurora was full of people, but only the shooter was carrying.

The Pulse nightclub was full of people, but only the shooter was carrying.

The classroom at VA tech was full of people, but only the shooter was carrying.

Mass shooters almost never face return fire, except from sworn officers.


If I am "surrounded by guns" it would seem statistically likely that at some point, perhaps even frequently, these mass shooters would face opposing fire, but it seems they almost never do. So I conclude either the guns are not there, or they are there and serve no useful purpose. I will let you pick.

... that every place you listed above was a "gun free zone." Carry of any kind is banned in such zones.

Isn't that odd ...

[quaker bill]

192. I am pretty sure

that the theoretical "invisible" guns that the poster stated "surround" me everywhere and that I would never know existed, were not checked for in any of these cases. I attended many college classes and was never frisked or passed through a metal detector to do so. Same goes for movie theaters and nightclubs...

A court house is a "gun free" zone as they have a sign telling you of the prohibition, and make you pass through a magnetometer on the way in. I have never seen such at a movie theater.

In short, I think you are full of it.

My gun lovin' BIL who holds a CCWP, would most likely have been carrying at all three venues.

I think these shooters do not face return fire because while the fantasy of carrying is attractive to many, the reality of it as a daily existence just isn't very attractive at all. In short, many people get weapons and permits, but after the first few days or weeks, they leave the weapon at home in the sock drawer.

[HockeyMom]

200. Not exactly true at the Pulse

There was an armed Security Guard at the door who did exchange fire with the gunman. I guess one good guy with a gun wasn't enough? So how many good guys with guns does it take?

[OldArtilleryMan]

132. Tell me

what makes a person feel the need to wear three concealed weapons?

[shadowrider]

190. That's a strawman argument.

I never said I DO, I said I could stand next to him and he'd never know.

[Jerry442]

143. Yes your firearms are concealed and couldn't hurt anyone.

Right up until the moment they do.

I'll bet you had an uncle who drove home from the bar drunk as a skunk every night and never hurt a fly, too.

[Orrex]

194. Why the fuck would you need to carry three guns?

If you're that scared...

[TipTok]

51. Which right are you referring to?

And as a group we have a right to ask you to leave. WE HAVE OUR RIGHTS TOO. And I am sick of hearing about their God damned rights.

[friendly_iconoclast]

175. Apparently, the 'right' to be free of some nebulous "moral harm"

Which, FYI, was an idea pushed by the reactionary statist Robert Bork:

“No activity that society thinks immoral is victimless. Knowledge that an activity is taking place is a harm to those who find it profoundly immoral.”

Robert Bork, The Tempting of America

Odd seeing such an authoritarian viewpoint getting expressed at DU...

[mike_c]

53. agreed, 100 percent....

All mass shooters carry a gun, by definition. So when I see someone in public carrying a gun, how can I know that they're not on their way to a mass shooting, or getting ready to begin shooting random strangers right there? My instinct tells me that the only safe response to a visible firearm is to clear the area ASAP.

[Chemisse]

202. Exactly.

And yet we are expected to trust that a random stranger with a gun is a 'good guy'.

Well I am just not that trusting, and I shouldn't have to live under that constant threat.

[Snarkoleptic]

222. Don't be so dramatic! Here's a handy guide to help make split-second life/death decisions.

[Warren Stupidity]

56. No shit

[aikoaiko]

61. I'm not afraid. The probability of being shot by a permitted or otherwise legal carrier is very low.

I'm more likely to get hurt in a car crash.

[procon]

75. And zero probability of being shot if they weren't carrying any guns, yeah? nt

[aikoaiko]

76. Yep same for car crashes. If no one drove cars, not one would be hurt in car crashes.

The logic is undeniable.

[procon]

93. Significant differences apply.

Car accidents, are just that, accidents, and I at least have seatbelts, airbags and maybe even built in anti-collision features to protect me. The car I drive is structurally designed to protect the people inside with lots of tested safety features. To drive a car I have to get my licence renewed, which first required me to take a driving course, pass a vision test, a written test, and then a driving test to prove my proficiency. As a driver, I am required to maintain liability insurance at a minimum to protect people and property that might be harmed by my actions. I also have to obey laws that prohibit me from driving under the influence and follow traffic rules for safety or face the consequences.

Why don't similar standards apply to someone who wants to needlessly carry around a lethal weapon in public?

[beevul]

98. Do they?

To drive a car I have to get my licence renewed, which first required me to take a driving course, pass a vision test, a written test, and then a driving test to prove my proficiency. As a driver, I am required to maintain liability insurance at a minimum to protect people and property that might be harmed by my actions. I also have to obey laws that prohibit me from driving under the influence and follow traffic rules for safety or face the consequences.

Incorrect. To drive a car, none of those things is required. To drive a car IN PUBLIC those things are required. But not to own a car, or use one on private property.

Why don't similar standards apply to someone who wants to needlessly carry around a lethal weapon in public?

Its called a license to carry, and they're issued by the state, and people who have them also have to obey laws that prohibit carrying under the influence and follow carry rules for safety or face the consequences.

Of course the right to keep and bear arms is also a RIGHT not a privilege like driving, so asking why apples aren't subject to the same rules as oranges merits the response that 'apples aren't oranges'.

[yallerdawg]

107. Yeah, those 18th Century rights.

Maybe this was what the 2nd Amendment applied to?

[beevul]

147. Put your money where your mouth is and give up your 18th century speech rights then.

Courage of your convictions, and all that.

[procon]

115. The laws are changing in favor of public safety.

Appeals Court Upholds ‘Concealed Carry’ Restrictions

Americans have no Second Amendment right to carry concealed guns in public, a federal appeals court in California ruled on Thursday in a significant blow to gun-rights activists and gun owners in a large swath of the Western U.S.

The San Francisco-based Ninth U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, in a 7-4 ruling, upheld a California law requiring residents to show “good cause” for carrying a concealed handgun.

...

“We hold that the Second Amendment does not preserve or protect a right of a member of the general public to carry concealed firearms in public,” wrote Judge William A. Fletcher, an appointee of President Bill Clinton, for the seven-judge majority.

Lawmakers are free to enact “any prohibition or restriction a state may choose” on the carrying of concealed guns, Judge Fletcher said.


A Second Amendment right to carry a firearm openly in public may exist, but the Supreme Court hasn't answered that question, Judge Fletcher wrote.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/appeals-court-upholds-concealed-carry-restrictions-1465483920

Ultimately will be settled by the U.S. Supreme Court, but not until a new justice is seated. This isn't new, our country has a centuries-long record of regulating guns in public spaces. The Ninth Circuit joins the Second, Third and Fourth circuits of the US Court of Appeals that have rendered similar rulings, upholding restrictions for concealed carry permits.

[beevul]

149. Yes, they are.

Ultimately will be settled by the U.S. Supreme Court, but not until a new justice is seated.

Funny thing about that, nobody is going to bring a second amendment case in front of a USSC known to be hostile to the second amendment, and nobody can compel it.

[procon]

154. Why would you think that only gun rights people will ask the high court to rule?

It seems counterintuitive to assume that gun control advocates would not feel very empowered by the string of court rulings that support gun restrictions, and would be eager to present their argument once the court is back to full strength with a new justice selected by a Democratic President.

[pipoman]

162. Why would the gun controllers appeal a ruling in their favor?

The only way this case is going forward is if appealed by the losing side....

[procon]

163. Its not yet a uniform law across the country.

The Supremes will need to rule and make a consistent law nationwide.

[pipoman]

174. Not until an actual contested ruling is accepted for consideration by scotus....

There will be no reversal of any rulings in the lifetime of anyone reading this. .

[beevul]

164. First, how do you propose that an anti-gunner take to court, that which is legal?

First, how do you propose that an anti-gunner take to court, that which is legal? If he/she engages in something which is legal, he/she wont be cited, let alone have standing.

Getting standing means, generally (and particularly in the way I think you're implying), being accused of a crime, so the anti-gunner is going to have to break a law. That by itself would be a media shitstorm. I can see the headline now:

"Anti-gunner x who campaigned for gun law x, going to court because he broke gun law x".

A tough act to pull off and retain credibility with the American people (what precious little the anti-gun movement heads have). See Giffords group endorsing 2 republicans and the credibility hit they took hereabouts, for a similar example. Now think of how many court sessions and court decisions and the accompanying publicity that go with them would manifest before a petition could even be sent to the USSC.

Plus, theres the probability of being a convicted gun felon for any anti-gunner that tries it, well before the USSC level, for only a small chance of making it to the ussc. I think that while they may not value my rights very much, they value their own rights and freedom quite highly. And imagine what a gift that would be for the gun rights movement, like the leeland yee debacle - tenfold.

What you suggest would be problematic (and that's putting it mildly) in about a hundred different ways. None of them benefitting the anti-gun movement, and most if not all of them would benefit the gun rights movement. Plus theres the simple fact that even if they rule that the second amendment doesn't protect X, that doesn't strike down ANY laws permitting concealed or open carry, or do away with gun ownership. Guns and gun ownership are still legal, the battlefield moves to the 9th amendment, and little has changed, except that pro-gunners have yet another example to club anti-gunners over the head with at will.

All for essentially no change if they win? I very much doubt it.

[aikoaiko]

127. similar standards do apply to those who carry a lethal weapon.

Guns are designed with safety features.
Guns are routinely safety fired before leaving the factory.
To carry a gun in public you need a permit or license; some requiring testing
But you're only required to have a license and insurance if you drive it on public roads.
Most states make it unlawful to carry a firearm while under the influence.

Not identical, but similar standards do indeed apply.

[procon]

137. I can't verify your claims.

In California there is no liability requirement:

However, no licensing authority may require an applicant to obtain liability insurance or pay any additional fees not otherwise authorized by law as a condition of the application for a license.

http://smartgunlaws.org/concealed-weapons-permitting-in-california/

This seems to be the case in most states as there is a new law working through congress that would make insurance a requirement.

House bill would require gun owners to have liability insurance

House Democrat Rep. Carolyn Maloney (N.Y.) has introduced a bill that would require gun owners to carry liability insurance.
...

The Firearm Risk Protection Act, unveiled Friday, would require gun buyers to have liability insurance coverage before being allowed to purchase a weapon, and would impose a fine of $10,000 if an owner is found not to have it.

http://thehill.com/regulation/243425-house-bill-would-require-gun-owners-to-carry-insurance

I see that you are more interested telling me that "Guns are routinely safety fired", like the mechanics of the object itself has more worth than human life. This does help your position, and that's a good thing, believe me.

[aikoaiko]

139. As I said, not identical,but similar standards. I don't think any state requires liability insurance

I think you didn't understand my comment when I said that guns are routinely safety fired. That is a test of gun safety and protects the shooter from a defective gun exploding in his or her hands.

I see that you are uninterested in the human life of those who carry guns, but that does help your position, and that too is a good thing.

[procon]

144. True.

But not my problem. Why would you expect sympathies from me for your own reckless decisions? That's hilarious. Now, what's the old adage; Those who live by the gun, die by the gun.

[aikoaiko]

146. I suppose caring about others depends on your sense of kindness, benevolence, and ethics.

You know, your humanity.

YMMV.

[procon]

150. Now I've heard everything; man with gun begging for sympathy

from little old anti-gun, me!

If you're bringing guns into public spaces, where is your 'ethics' when my stress goes up, and my heart pounds from anxiety and fear? When my grandchildren get big eyes and try to hide behind me, do you want me to explain to them that you're really not a crazy person, just a kind and benevolent guy with a gun that they know to be a very dangerous thing and not ever to be touched?

What next?

[aikoaiko]

153. No one is begging you for anything. I thought we were just conversing about a topic.

But I do feel sorry for you that you should have such a reaction to the mere sight of firearm. It must be difficult.

[procon]

156. Have you read the responses in this thread?

People do not like guns in their public places. Here, let me toss is another old saw that you're probably familiar with; 'Guns don't kill people, people do'. No one knows you from the next mass murderer with a gun, yeah? You are frightfully indistinguishable in the eyes of the public, so don't chastise me for fearing some irresponsible, unknown stranger with a gun.

[beevul]

166. People don't like alot of things in their public spaces.

People do not like guns in their public places.

People don't like alot of things in their public spaces. And the word 'like' denotes personal bias, which is no good basis for any law.

You are frightfully indistinguishable in the eyes of the public...

If you had said 'some of the public' you'd have been correct. Most of the public isn't afraid of someone peaceably carrying a firearm, nor do they have trouble distinguishing between those that are carrying peaceably and those who are carrying otherwise.

...so don't chastise me for fearing some irresponsible, unknown stranger with a gun.

You assuming irresponsibility on the part of someone you admit you don't even know speaks for itself.

You simply don't trust your fellow man.

[aikoaiko]

195. Yes, some people are fearful.

People can hurt you with guns you see or don't see.
People can hurt you with other weapons like knives and clubs that you see them carrying or not see.
People can hurt you with a pressure cooker, firecrackers, and a cell phone hidden in a backpack.
People can hurt you with their bare hands.


It's a simple fact of life when we live among other people.

I don't live in fear of others hurting me, but I try to be mindful of the real risk involved.

[jmg257]

221. Maybe you should talk to the kids...while a bit of fear can be a good thing, heart-pounding anxiety

for you and your grand-kids doesn't seem to be.

Explaining how/why tens of millions of their fellow citizens who are perfectly fine choose to live could be educational.

[flamin lib]

63. Oh the gunners come out with their plaintive whines about their precious

guns and rights and other silly stuff.

Poor people. Too scared to leave home without a gun to protect themselves against other people with guns. Kinda circular doncha' think?

All that notwithstanding Heller vs DC clearly says that there is no universal right to guns. Not to carry or own any gun for any reason or carry it in any place for any reason.

CA federal court just ruled that the 2nd Amendment does not confer a right to concealed carry.

The poor fraidycat gunners just need to get used to the new normal.

Nobody likes them.

[Hekate]

68. If I were to see one of those guys in my grocery store who's not wearing a police uniform...

... I would very quietly park my cart of groceries and exit the store. From home I would advise the manager of my decision to not shop there.

Half this country is nuts.

[Iggo]

74. Yeah, I hate flashers, too.

[sarisataka]

77. Where is all of this

open carry going on? I have been in some very gun-friendly areas and have seen three people open carrying over a five year period.

[Waldorf]

171. I live in gun crazy Texas, have a concealed carry permit but only carry concealed (I don't care for

open carry it but thats another story) and I have yet seen somebody open carrying.

[BallardWA]

79. I left a grocery store on Sunday, with my empty bags under my arms,

but only after telling the management that there was a young man roaming the store with a gun on his hip and that I was going to take my business elsewhere. I had been with this guy in the parking lot and got to observe his behavior, and I did not like what I saw. He was young, brash and lippy. He most certainly felt a bigger man because of that gun. It sent a shudder down my spine. I had to return something and had someone call down management so that I could complain directly to them. They said that they were helpless to prevent it. I know that if a business can prove that allowing open carry in their establishment is causing a pecuniary loss, they can ban them. I intend to do this every damn time I see some idiot carrying. You got it right - we have our rights too.

[yallerdawg]

80. When the police or another armed individual finds a gun on you...

open or concealed, public or private property, they can legally take your life.

What other RIGHTS do we have that can legally end our lives when we exercise that right?

There is something akin to insanity in regards to American gun laws.

[sarisataka]

82. Murder is now legal

if the victim has a gun? I missed that going into effect.

[yallerdawg]

88. Murder is unlawful.

When you, as a citizen, exercise your right to "...keep and bear arms..." you are putting yourself in a position where the perception of other people - especially police and any other armed individual who considers you a threat of some kind - can legally deprive you of your life.

Well known to anyone who doesn't live under a rock with no access to news of any kind.

Of course, it helps a little to be white, for some reason.

[sarisataka]

90. So should I choose

to exercise my legal right, another person may then kill me for it. And that person will face no consequences.

I don't think that is how that works.

[yallerdawg]

97. That is exactly how it works.

Unless you are a cop or a citizen standing your ground or in perceived self defense.

Then it works the other way. You get to take someone else's life.

[sarisataka]

106. The sad thing is

I believe, on some level, you actually think this is true.

[yallerdawg]

108. Let's see where we are right now.

Total number of incidents so far in 2016: 35,876

Are guns making us safer?

http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/

[sarisataka]

112. I though we were talking

about being able to legally kill people. Or have that many been killed because they were carrying guns.

[yallerdawg]

119. We're talking about why we don't want to be around people with guns.

What other RIGHT puts lives in jeopardy like the right "...to keep and bear arms..."?

What kind of a RIGHT is that?

[sarisataka]

122. YOU said

When the police or another armed individual finds a gun on you...
open or concealed, public or private property, they can legally take your life

Are you backing off that statement?

[yallerdawg]

128. Are you unaware of what has been happening recently and forever?

The Baton Rouge police just legally executed a citizen for having a gun in his pocket!

They legally execute people for having toys that look like guns!

They legally execute people when they are thought to have guns!

But you know that. You just want to argue about "saying" that.

[sarisataka]

129. I see those acts

as crimes and have long supported the idea that police should be held accountable, just as any other citizen would be. A double standard of justice does not make those acts "legal"'

[sarisataka]

135. So legal?...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10028119353

Black Indianapolis man shot by cops after calling police to report robbery

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/king-black-man-shot-cops-calling-report-robbery-article-1.2762748

Early Tuesday in Indianapolis, an African-American woman was being carjacked in front of her home in her working class neighborhood. She ran back in the house, told her husband, who is also black, and they called the police to report the robbery. That seemed to be the right and safe thing to do.

As the police pulled up, the husband opened the garage to their home and was immediately shot in the gut by police.

They claim they believed he was the robber and that because he had a firearm of his own, they shot him in self-defense.

He, of course, was not the robber. In fact, police have yet to even say if they caught the robber. Since they dusted the car for fingerprints, it appears that the actual man committing a crime got away and the man who wanted to protect his wife and family was instead shot and currently fighting for his own life in the hospital.

even though the "execution" failed?

[TipTok]

117. What?

[yallerdawg]

120. "What?"

Say that to a cop when he tells you to put down your gun.

[Hayduke Bomgarte]

84. I feel the same way

I've walked out of stores and restaurants because some idiot was carrying a gun.

Ya know... If I had one gun for everyone I know who has been in a situation where they actually honestly needed one, or even someone I know who knows someone, I'd have... Lemme count 'em up... Oh yeah. I'd have the same number of guns I have now. NONE!

[wysi]

87. + 1,000,000

I couldn't agree more.

[shenmue]

89. Same here

Some asshole had a big pistol in Steak n Shake last year. Asshole scared me and my Mom - we were at lunch.

[BigDemVoter]

92. SAME here.

If they are packing, I want to be FAR away!

[MarianJack]

96. For people who have to have a gun for their job, OK, but...

...for gun nut ammosexuals with their substitute penises, FUCK NO!

PEACE!

[jimmil]

111. Open Carry?

Just say no! OK, simplistic but why can businesses that do not want open carry a-holes just refuse to serve them? Ignore them completely. Discrimination right now as the law reads is only for race, sex, and national origin I believe. If they are blonde and you don't want to serve blondes that's fine. No discrimination there. And to be clear, by service I mean what ever your business you are in be it waiter to college professor. There is no law forcing you to interact with that person that I know of.

[bravenak]

130. i saw a guy open carrying while jogging down the road in the rain

Nobody so much as honked since he was wearing camo and not looking like he was going to point it at anybody. looked young, maybe HS or UNI ROTC. I noticed that I was not one bit upset. But when they open carry in the parking lot or something like that at Walmrt? scares the shit out of me. I think open carry should be limited to the woods or something>

[Chemisse]

136. Agree. Why should I have to trust that an open carry person won't suddenly start shooting?

And how do you tell the difference between a crazed shooter and a 'good guy with a gun" and why should I have to be exposed to that kind of stress?

[procon]

142. You can't, and that's what bothers me the most, too.

When I see someone who has to bring a gun with them into a public space, it triggers major alarm bells. I just know he's mentally off and has major problems with insecurity and low self esteem and he's compensating by having a cool weapon that can kill people... maybe like the ones who used to bully him as kid. He isn't going to be trustworthy from the start because his reasoning is skewed and he looks a lethal action as an actual option.

Maybe they think it's fun, but the few times I've spotted men with guns, my heart races, I can't breathe, and my stomach cramps up. I get as far away as possible and I call 9/11 and let the cops sort it out.

[FXSTD]

140. Why are some so paranoid they can't be around a gun?

I'd rather not be around a criminal without a gun than a thousand law abiding citizens with guns. Also there is no "right" to have no guns around us. Our party historically have always had guns.

[baldguy]

141. Guns' rights are more important than human rights.

And every "firearms enthusiasts"* hobby is more important than your life.

[font color="white"]*meaning "drooling gun nutter"[/font]

[beevul]

169. Projection your honor.

Pro-gunners do not see their 'hobby' as being in conflict with human lives.

You do.

[alittlelark]

145. I live in a rural town in NM - we have an open carry loon walking around...

He is 30, has been in prison twice, has a tattooed face, and walks around w/Rambo style ammunition and an AK -(whateverthefuck) slung over his back.... he Always wears Camouflage clothing..... Oh, and he mainlines meth....

[beevul]

170. Why aren't you calling the police?

The way you describe him, hes a prohibited person.

[alittlelark]

176. I have been in contact w/Harry Betz-our Police Chief

So have most of my neighbors.... Burglaries are off the charts - the OPEN CARRY guy born and raised out here has yet to be busted DOING anything... Although SWAT came out here last week for him - he is still hiding in the hills.... IT SUCKS !!!

[beevul]

177. If hes spent stints in prison, hes been caught doing something, which most likely makes him a PP.

Being an illegal drug user alone makes him a PP.

[Dem2]

151. I don't either.

I mark them as dangerous people who should be kept an eye on.

[pinboy3niner]

155. There was a time and place when I open-carried

Since then, I'm just not feeling it.

Outside Firebase Bastogne, Vietnam, October 1969 (pinboy at left)

[MohRokTah]

157. You may want to refer to this map to determine where you want to live:

http://www.opencarry.org/maps/map-open-carry-of-a-properly-holstered-loaded-handgun/

[Initech]

158. If I'm in a store and there's a guy with a loaded AK47 on his back, I do not shop there.

And I let the manager know why.

[Grey Lemercier]

159. Clinton needs to pack the SCOTUS with judges hostile to the 2nd Amendment

Overturn Heller, continue on with case after case designed to neuter the 2nd Amendment so completely that there is no need to do the now nigh impossible task of repealing it.

Also have a federal yearly tax of 1000 USD per weapon owned, a 5000 USD annual tax to simply own any weapons, and 10 USD federal tax for each round of ammunition purchased.

Hopefully someday the nation is sane enough to actually repeal the barbarous relic that is the 2nd Amendment.

[friendly_iconoclast]

172. A tax to designed restrict a Constitutionally protected right? It's been tried, and failed:

https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/460/575/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minneapolis_Star_Tribune_Co._v._Commissioner

Minneapolis Star Tribune Company v. Commissioner, 460 U.S. 575 (1983), was an opinion of the Supreme Court of the United States overturning a use tax on paper and ink in excess of $100,000 consumed in any calendar year. The Minneapolis Star Tribune initially paid the tax and sued for a refund.

On its face, this ruling finds that state tax systems cannot treat the press differently from any other business without significant and substantial justification. The state of Minnesota demonstrated no such justification to impose a special tax on a select few newspaper publishers. Therefore, this tax was in violation of the First Amendment's guarantee of freedom of the press.

Not to mention the fact that your proposal is extremely classist-
Donald Trump could own just about all the weapons he could get his tiny hands on,
while farmers and ranchers would be SOL...
on

[Grey Lemercier]

215. put the right judges on the SCOTUS and it would pass constitutional muster

As for the prohibitive cost), that's my exact point. Price the option to be a gun fetishist right out of most peoples hands. It's extraordinarily expensive here in the EU to own guns, not to mention extremely hard legally. Until the nation comes to its senses and repeals the onerous 2nd Amendment, this is the correct approach to start disarming America and end the insanity of gun humping. Most criminals get their guns via stolen ones, take away 90 plus percent of legal owners and you vastly reduce the supply via theft.

I have zero sympathy for hunters and gun nuts. We get along fine here without them or with them massively regulated and priced out of the market. The American obsession with firearms is a pathological mental illness.

[jmg257]

224. Why focus on removing the 90% of legal owners - and have to fight the Constitution to do so?

Seems better to take away the less then 1% who are criminals...and you would also drastically reduce violence of all sorts.

[Snarkoleptic]

165. Rational response to open carry-

Here's what some in Texas are leaving behind as they flee-

[duncang]

168. A friend from work before I retired

Was someone who wanted to see the open carry law. Now that Texas is open carry I'm sure he is one of those who do it. I was leery about being around him even before this. Over the course of 20 years I knew him he had accidentally fired off a round in his house 4 times. Luckily he never hit anyone. Haven't seen him for about 5 years. But wonder how many times he has done it since then. Still get the stupid conspiracy emails from him. And I answer back with facts. Just doesn't seem to sink in.

[Monk06]

180. They are not paranoid they are agreesive anti social misfits They live to get in people's faces and

intimidate them "I'm packin a semi auto carbine and their ain't nothin you can do to stop me, NYEH !!"

Just a bunch of street corner delinquents harassing old ladies out doing their shopping

That is the emotional and intellectual level they were when they stopped maturing

[Binkie The Clown]

182. I hear that second hand bullets are even worse than second hand smoke.

I don't want to end up being the victim of some paranoid halfwit's mental illness. I could be standing in line at the store when Dimwit's kid reaches into here purse in the shopping car and pulls the trigger on a concealed pistol. Whose job is it to protect ME from dangerous dimwits (by which I mean concealed carry idiots)? People that scared of the big bad real world should just stay home.

[TheMastersNemesis]

186. You Certainly Have That Right.

Second hand bullets are quicker and more deadly sooner. The more guns around the more risk of accidental shooting. The question is where does this nonsense stop. Unless businesses kick back and say no to guns you could have a number of openly carried weapons in an establishment.

Remember some states now allow guns in bars. And how ironic the same legislators that pass open carry laws WILL NOT ALLOW GUNS IN THEIR CHAMBERS.

[DFW]

185. Where I live, getting a gun is a tedious, drawn-out process including mental evaluation

You go through rigorous testing, a psychological evaluation, and must keep firearms under strict lock and key (permits usually only issued in conjunction with hunting or P.I. licenses, and private security firms). Carrying these guns in public is almost never permitted, and security measures at home are not only frequently checked by the police, but result in confiscation and revocation of the permit if the security measures are not followed. Other than one guy who owns a lot of land out in a rural area and hunts on it, another guy who works as a guard at a valuable cargo storage area of an airport, plus one guy who is an ex-cop (federal) who runs a security protection agency, I don't know anyone in the whole country who owns a gun. The fear of being hurt by one is, as a consequence, negligible.

[Loki]

189. When I lived in Texas

This is what you faced just by gong to dinner. I guess it's ok because "he forgot" it was in his pocket.

Civil suit in Raffa’s shooting settles, injuries remain
By STEFANIE THOMAS | Updated Apr 5, 2012

Diana Barker walks with a special custom-made brace, while a cane provides added support for her paralyzed left foot. They are constant reminders of the evening when a gunshot rang out at Raffa’s Waterfront Grill in Kingwood months ago.

No criminal charges were ever brought against the concealed handgun license holder whose gun caused such damage to the 72-year-old woman’s body in January last year, and a personal injury civil suit seeking to alleviate the victim’s financial burden was recently settled.

Diana is moving on and focusing on the future, said her son and family spokesman, Matt Barker.

http://www.yourhoustonnews.com/kingwood/news/civil-suit-in-raffa-s-shooting-settles-injuries-remain/article_2df0bb8e-1479-5f82-88e5-387fecf63cf0.html?mode=jqm

[pwb]

191. They should be made to wear a bright yellow hat.

Because they are so scared of us all.

[ileus]

196. Have you ever seen someone open carrying?

OCers and CCers are just like you except they want to have the ability to protect themselves and family.

[baldguy]

198. They are cowards who cannot face the world without having the threat of violence handy at their side

[Nuclear Unicorn]

204. So all those people who report violent crimes are just lying?

Or is one only considered brave if they passively accept whatever violent criminals mete out?

[baldguy]

207. So because of the exceedingly rare violent crime

that's an excuse for coward gunners to go full Rambo on the pimply-faced stock clerk at the supermarket?

Sorry, but the corn flakes aren't threatening you.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

220. It's not rare for the victims. But since you're going to fixate on what is rare --

What is rarest of all is to be victimized by a duly licensed carrier. Between criminals, the police, and lawful carriers the latter is the safest and least threatening.

Why are you fearful of them?

[baldguy]

236. The rarest of all is actually the threat of getting shot by someone who has no gun.

If a criminal wants a gun, he gets one from a "lawful, duly licensed carrier". Always.

Those who are honestly concerned about gun violence understand that the answer isn't getting armed & going around carrying a gun. The answer is to get rid of the guns.

[ileus]

213. You need to accept the chance of being a victim to prove you're not a coward.

To which I say....Fuck That. I have but one life, and my wife and children mean more to me than feelings.

[SecularMotion]

223. If you truly cared about your wife and children, you wouldn't own a gun

Study: Guns in home increase suicide, homicide risk

Study after study seems to point to a similar conclusion: More guns mean more unnatural death.

A new survey in the Annals of Internal Medicine narrows down some of the causal relationship between guns and death by finding conclusively that having a gun in your home makes you more likely to successfully attempt suicide. The authors of the survey also found with a lesser degree of certainty that people with guns in their home are more likely to be the victims of a homicide.

The authors -- Andrew Anglemyer, PhD, MPH; Tara Horvath, MA; and George Rutherford, MD -- came to a few common sense conclusions, namely that firearms that are unlocked or loaded are more likely to be used than those that are locked and not loaded, especially among adolescent suicide victims.

However they also found that mental illness does not make one more at risk of committing suicide or being killed by a gun.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/study-guns-in-home-increase-suicide-homicide-risk/

[marble falls]

197. Me either, and that includes security guards and police.

[Dustlawyer]

201. Just get the anti-smokers to go after them, that will shut them down.

Give them "open carry" zones like protest zones, far away from the action!

[Lee-Lee]

203. You should consult this map to see where you need to live

It adjusts year by year so watch it cycle through:

[Cosmocat]

219. Jesus fin Christ

we evolved as a country from the "wild west days" and functioned perfectly fine for over a decade, now, somehow, it is necessary to devolve back to wild west times.

[Lee-Lee]

234. Can you show one of those states that has "devolved" back to Wild West days?

With real crime data?

Every single time a state proposes liberalizing concealed carry laws gun prohibitionists scream about the "Wild West" returning, and every single time after the law passed it doesn't materialize.

How much longer will that tired lie continue to be repeated?

[Odin2005]

205. Oh look, it's the daily DU 2-minute hate against gun owners.

Maybe you should just lock yourself in your house if you are so scared.

[randr]

211. People do not hate gun owners nor do they want to take their guns away

We just want them stop acting like assholes.

[Odin2005]

214. OP is accusing all concealed-carry people of being crazed violent RW loons.

I know plenty of progressives who conceal-carry.

[randr]

216. That is not what I read

I think he is merely stating what most Americans think of when they see someone armed in a public space.

[Odin2005]

217. OP said they didn't even want to be around concealed carry people.

[NaturalHigh]

212. I thought "gun issues" weren't allowed in GD.

Unless of course, they're the garden variety "I hate guns" threads. This OP squeezes one in every day or two.

[jmg257]

218. Apparently an open-carry person REALLY upset the OP a while back.

Not for anything specific, just because.

There have been numerous threads on the matter.

[jmg257]

208. Wow - people who are so paranoid of other people who are so paranoid of other people

- maybe they should all just stay home.

At least until the whole world gets straightened out and there is no longer any danger for anyone to be afraid of.




Obvious everyone is capable of being scared of anything or anyone, so it seems its the different ways of how they choose to deal with the fear that's the issue.


Then again, some people are just assholes, and fear isn't the issue at all.

[NaturalHigh]

210. Cool story bro.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

225. The ones with the hero complex get me....

Oh yeah, I should be grateful to them for protecting me from the bad guys in their head.

[cleanhippie]

226. "I'm sick of hearing about their god damned rights"

Yeah! Fuck rights.



Do you even hear yourself?

[TheMastersNemesis]

228. I Don't Give A Damn What You Think.

[cleanhippie]

230. That's obvious, and the problem.

To see such authoritarian views espoused on a democratic website.... Classic.

[demmiblue]

227. K&R

[Marengo]

231. As strong of a defender of the 2A as I am, OC rubs me the wrong way.

[TheMastersNemesis]

233. Too Bad. Most Of The Public Is Against Open Carry.

The NRA is in the minority. 2nd Amendment is deliberately and fraudulently misinterpreted.

[TheMastersNemesis]

232. If I Had Children Would Not Allow Them To Play With Avid Gun Owner's Kids.

I will go so far as to say I would not have anything to do with a neighbor who was avidly pro open carry. And I would not let my kids play with their kids or go into there household. Of course, I don't have any kids so I don't really have that problem.