General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsDU Men, please enlighten us. What makes men like Donald Trump treat women with such
contempt and disrespect?
I know most of you aren't like this, but I thought maybe you might have known someone who was or might have some insight. For the life of me, I can't understand what would make a person be so hateful and cruel toward half the people on the planet. I'm not trying to get into a gender war, I would just like to know your opinion on what would make someone behave this way. It's really hurtful and very frightening that so many people seem to think that this kind of behavior is acceptable.
hlthe2b
(102,276 posts)How to explain it? But, yeah, like many women, I've known absolute creeps like this.
cagefreesoylentgreen
(838 posts)My experience has been that some men (and a few women I've known) always have to get in the last word, even if that last word is trying to top someone else's boast. Trump has always struck me as being that sort of guy.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)For some reason he thinks that is what makes him a man. It's funny because in the world I live in, the most respected men are gracious and kind toward both men and women and they are not only not looked at as weak, they are admired and respected.
poli-junkie
(1,002 posts)How come we never hear about Der Gropin-feurer's mother?
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)I would be curious.
canetoad
(17,160 posts)Wondering exactly the same thing. Couldn't find much on the web, no wikipedia entry.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)well. Any takers?
Jim Beard
(2,535 posts)series with Trumph and Hillary. @ hours each.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)How someone could become so twisted, so egomaniaical is just fascinating to me.
justiceischeap
(14,040 posts)smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)Just getting into this, but it's fascinating. "Freddy just wasn't a killer". That says it all. What a sick family. I will continue to watch, but I am already kind of disgusted by the Trump family. Thank you for posting! Everyone should watch this!
justiceischeap
(14,040 posts)smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)I cannot believe this guy, I really can't. Thanks again for the link. I hope other people watch this.
justiceischeap
(14,040 posts)The thing is, I thought it was pretty even-handed so when you see the bad stuff about him, you just know that it's worse than they're portraying.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)He is so disgusting, watching this is like watching a train wreck. Sickening, but you can't take your eyes off it.
Skittles
(153,160 posts)do they typically include boasts about ASSAULTING women?
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)this kind of stuff, but I suppose most males grow out of it by a certain age. Particularly if they are running for the highest office in the land.
bluesbassman
(19,373 posts)Trump is a low life scum who couldn't get laid in a morgue if it wasn't for his money.
MicaelS
(8,747 posts)About when he was in high school, he would take girls out into the rural areas, and tell them they could either walk home or "give it up".
This was late 70s and, by then he was in his 30s, and thought it was funny. So yes, some men do boast about assaulting women.
I was appalled, but to my regret I said nothing.
lindysalsagal
(20,684 posts)smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)Small hands, small ....
lpbk2713
(42,757 posts)And that makes it easy for him to regard most people as inferior to him. Especially women.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)This is a clear indication of an inferior character.
The Genealogist
(4,723 posts)Money, property, acclaim, women (no doubt he thinks of women as property), he thinks it is just his for the taking. He is an awful, rotten, terrible, depraved person who has likely never had any real boundaries in his life, and the result is an utter, shameful lack of morals or ethics.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)But he seems to reserve his especially hateful speech for women. He seems to rejoice in degrading them.
The Genealogist
(4,723 posts)Men like him think women are just here for the pleasure of men, to cook them meals, clean their houses, look pretty on their arms and function as repositories for their foul semen. Misogyny is an ugly, ugly thing, and Donald Trump is the poster child.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)on in that deranged little mind of his. A lot of privileged men are total dicks, I know, because they have never been taught to consider the feelings of others, but I don't think that privilege is the only reason. This guy is beyond anything I have ever seen. I wonder if it is because he really ISN'T privileged. He is rich, but he was never part of the true elite and maybe was always rejected by the truly privileged.
This is his revenge. The elite women rejected him and now he is taking his revenge upon all women. I don't know, it's just a theory. All I know is that this guy is seriously psychologically fucked UP.
volstork
(5,401 posts)I truly think he is a sociopath, in addition to all that Genealogist enumerated. The cruelty is the most telling trait; it speaks to a lack of empathy and, therefore, a sick, sick mind.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)Sociopath, Narcissist, Borderline Personality Disorder - all three. Whatever, the guy is clearly mentally ill.
volstork
(5,401 posts)with those diagnoses, Trump is in the overlapping center.
dembotoz
(16,804 posts)Money and power seems to be way sexy
Perhaps u should ask women
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)Most women I know aren't golddiggers. Most men I know aren't pigs. What i want to know is what makes men like Trump so cruel and hateful.
vlyons
(10,252 posts)It's just plain ol' selfishness. The greatest of all mental errors is ignorance that sees the "self" as real solid thing. Self as first and foremost. Everything else, people, possessions, beliefs are in service to said self. There's no room for compassion, but plenty of room for anger, when selfish desires are not met. The antidote to such selfishness is compassion for others and working for the benefit of others before one's self. When has Donald Trump ever sacrificed himself and his wants and desires for the benefit of others?
I know that I'll probably get dumped on by DUers for saying this, but - yes even people like Trump need our compassion. Trump is mired deeply in selfish ignorance. Someone so angry and selfish cannot be a happy person. Let Trump be a reminder that the people you met on the way up, and how you treat them on the way up, are the same people that you meet on the way back down. And they remember how they were treated. They remember if they were treated with disdain and contempt, or if they were treated graciously with compassion and friendliness.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)Happy people do not act this way. They just don't. It takes a really strong person, however to have compassion for someone like this. It's hard, because he is so destructive. I don't know what the answer is. Sometimes I think if we treat people like this with compassion they will just destroy us all. I just don't know. He is probably suffering, but we can't allow him to make the rest of us suffer along with him.
vlyons
(10,252 posts)he suffers greatly. His suffering is the result of his own thoughts, words, and deeds. A real, authentic Buddhist teacher could find the right words to get through to him. I'm not such a person. The best that I can do is to see how such negative karma bears fruit in such disasterous and unhappy outcomes. The path to becoming more enlightened is painful. We have to become very embarrassed and ashamed of the various selfish and hurtful things that we have said and done in the past, and truly repent them and make a serious commitment to not make those mistakes again.
I would argue that the way to not let him make us suffer is to have compassion for him. He is an excellent object lesson to all our young men and boys about how disrespecting women and girls is not funny and creates lots of trouble and problems for guys that engage in it. Trump is an object lesson in the virtues of practicing the golden rule. There's also the object lesson that money can't buy you happiness. Only following a moral code of integrity and holding good will and compassion in our hearts can being us peace of mind and happiness.
Too bad Trump can't spend some time with Jimmy and Roselyn Carter. Jimmy is a gentle man and a giant of a man, when it comes to character, compassion, and personal integrity. my 2 cents ...
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)Some people just never grow out of the behavior that was encouraged by their peers in grammar school. Virtually all men are exposed to reinforcement of that type of behavior at a very young age. Most develop the maturity to understand why it's wrong. Trump's bad behavior is not just limited to misogyny. He exhibits all sorts of other bad behaviors that were undoubtedly reinforced at a very young age and he lacked either the self discipline or mentorship, or both that could have corrected it.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)I still think there is a deeper psychological reason. He is too old to be carrying on this way though. Most men would have mellowed out by the age of 70, but he is still acting like an 18 year old frat boy. I just can't understand how someone could not have matured at all after more than 50 plus years.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)You don't have to be rich not to grow out of childhood bad behavior, but being born into money meant there were few consequences for Trump to have to deal with. So it's not as if his bad behavior is going to cost him any relationships that he can't simply replace with other people who stand to benefit by associating with him.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)He doesn't have a lot of friends there. And the more that comes out about the way he treats the people that he employs and does business with, sooner or later it's going to come back and bite him in the ass. Trust me, he has some very powerful, rich enemies in that city. Once this is all over, he is toast in that town.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)As far as I can tell he only has cronies who associate with him because it benefits them financially or in some other way. I think his own family only associates with him on the condition that the checks keep coming. Deep down inside I think he knows that.
MH1
(17,600 posts)it would be one thing. But, correct me if I'm wrong - this tape is from 2005??? 20-somethings are still growing up and some take a while to grow out of the b.s. they learned in grammar school, as you pointed out. And I guess I know that some men really don't grow out of it. But I don't expect the President of the US - or a nominee from a major party - to be drawn from that pool.
justiceischeap
(14,040 posts)this is talked about in Frontline's The Choice. One of his classmates was interviewed and said they learned about women and sex from other boys and Playboy. The classmate said the other boys outgrew that attitude but Donald embraced it.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)...which was essentially prison for boys. I don't know if that's the case with Trump, but it wouldn't surprise me. Many people including Trump's father alluded to him being a rotten kid and Trump himself even seems to acknowledge it. He has always struck me as a spoiled rich kid that never grew out of being rotten to the core. I suspect his father was exactly the same way, but he simply masked his behavior by immersing himself in his work.
PSPS
(13,597 posts)I wish I had a nickel for every wonderful woman I've met over the years who was hooked up with someone like this.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)Unless they have been extremely abused or are mentally ill in some way. The question really is, what is wrong with men that take advantage of the vulnerable?
gollygee
(22,336 posts)!!!!!
It is not a one way street. Trumps attitude I think is despicable and wrong on all levels towards women. But that does not diminish the fact that it is a candle that burns at both ends.
Jim Beard
(2,535 posts)MicaelS
(8,747 posts)Purely an object for their visual and sexual gratification. They don't see women as people with their own feelings, thoughts and needs. They look at women as trophies. Literally. Trump is wealthy enough that he doesn't think he has to take no for an answer.
And much of it is immaturity. They never grew out of adolescence, when the only thing that matters to many young males is "getting lots of p...." pardon the vulgarity). And boasting about their sexual activity as if it were a scoreboard. Not caring anything about the girls. It starts young, too. I remember one guy back in 7th grade (age 12-13). All he could talk about was that "he was not getting enough p....". He would say this in front of his "girlfriend".
DLevine
(1,788 posts)smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)Not seeing women as human. I suppose that is partly how they are raised and partly cultural. But some men rise above that.
MicaelS
(8,747 posts)How can a man love a women and treat her like that? I could not and would not.
imanamerican63
(13,790 posts)Last edited Fri Oct 7, 2016, 08:37 PM - Edit history (1)
I drive a truck for a living and hear some of most egregious language from men and women. I guess you need to fit in with those around you. I look at it this way, I don't need to fit with these people. I rather stay to myself and then I feel better about myself. Trump was trying to show that he is big deal, which makes him a idiot my eyes!
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)It makes him look weak and pathetic.
imanamerican63
(13,790 posts)dlwickham
(3,316 posts)I'm poor white trash and I'm used to people in my socioeconomic class using words like this but he's a fricking billionaire
I thought they were supposed to show some class and not use words like this
trash is trash no matter how much one is worth?
imanamerican63
(13,790 posts)11 Bravo
(23,926 posts)to wrap my head around that kind of misogyny and generally all-around shittiness.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)Agnosticsherbet
(11,619 posts)JDC
(10,127 posts)Eom
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)That's it.
GaYellowDawg
(4,447 posts)He's a privileged asshole who likes to violate peoples' boundaries to demonstrate his wealth and power. And that comes across as objectification and harassment when it comes to women. Where the insecurity comes into it is, for some people, their wealth and power is enough. They don't have to constantly push it on other people. For someone like Trump, having the wealth and power isn't enough. He has to constantly remind people of it and has to constantly have people confirm it back to him. That's exactly what he was doing in the conversation.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)Most men would kick the shit out of him if he treated him that way, but he knows that he can get away with it with women because they are too afraid of what he will do to them if they push back. He is such a bully and a coward. It is only further proof of his cowardice and insecurity.
Donkees
(31,406 posts)smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)It's a total defense mechanism. He fears women will laugh at him. The thing is, they do.
dlwickham
(3,316 posts)smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)The_Casual_Observer
(27,742 posts)Vibe of the early 1960s, never grew out of it, and was able because of his wealth and power to indulge this fantasy without restraint his whole life.
This was covered nicely in the Frontline documentary last week.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)He should be a wise old man by now. Yet he acts like a 12 year old pre-pubescent boy. It's just creepy!
dhol82
(9,353 posts)The_Casual_Observer
(27,742 posts)His supporter mistake his insanity for some kind of half ass visionary.
Trust Buster
(7,299 posts)smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)that they are the most YUUUGELY powerful man in the world. God, he needs some serious effing help.
jamese777
(546 posts)they are praising their candidate for being an "alpha male." Trump's behavior is primate dominance establishing.
Alpha (ethology): "In studies of social animals, the highest ranking individual is sometimes designated as the alpha. Males, females, or both, can be alphas, depending on the species. Where one male and one female fulfill this role together, they are sometimes referred to as the alpha pair. Other animals in the same social group may exhibit deference or other species-specific subordinate behaviours towards the alpha or alphas.
Alpha animals usually gain preferential access to food and other desirable items or activities, though the extent of this varies widely between species. Male or female alphas may gain preferential access to sex or mates; in some species, only alphas or an alpha pair reproduce."
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)incredibly stupid I can't even express my contempt for it. Secondly, even if such a thing existed, Trump is so far from Alpha it's not funny. Compare him to a brave soldier who faces danger every day of his life. Trump would shit his pants after 5 minutes of combat. Everything was handed to him, he had to work for nothing. And everything that was handed to him, he squandered. He is the very definition of a loser. There is nothing manly, brave or superior about him. I have met homeless people with more character and fortitude than he has.
I could go on forever, but Trump is NO alpha male.
GaYellowDawg
(4,447 posts)YES. A thousand times YES. And the rest of your post is spot on, as well.
gwheezie
(3,580 posts)Who live long don't provoke fights with the rest of the group. There's no such thing as an alpha. I've studied herd behavior for decades, leaders change, roles change, these dopey guys have no idea what they're talking about.
nolabear
(41,963 posts)Or the audience he railed to. I started to put up the YouTube video of Cruz's rant but I was so skeeved out already that I couldn't take it.
Mc Mike
(9,114 posts)I've been a construction worker for decades. It's a very rare occurence that I've heard guys talking like that on the sites.
There have been a few boy-men who have occasionally sunk to that level of disgusting, hatefilled swinishness, but it isn't standard practice. This is antecdotal, based only on my personal experience, but I've worked on more than a hundred job sites since '85.
Someone up thread said something that reminded me of what all commercial and industrial union electrician apprentices are taught, in classes about sexual harassment: "Would you say it if your mother, wife, daughter, or sister was around? Would you want someone to say it to your mother, wife, daughter, or sister?"
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)It's nice to know that they don't.
Mc Mike
(9,114 posts)I can think of about 5 instances where someone was talking around me in this base, bottom of the evolutionary scale, vile, disgusting manner, over the years. When there were no women around.
And nobody ever said or did anything like that around our women co workers, in my presence, ever.
If they did, guaranteed I would tell them "I'll testify to exactly what you said, when the hearing occurs. I'll be happy to rat you out, scumbag."
malaise
(268,998 posts)It is how they saw and see men around them treating women
awake
(3,226 posts)I think any one here on this site knows this type of sexual abuse has to do with power and control of others. I do find it sexist to think that "men" on DU would have a special knowledge of Trump because of their shared gender.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)I don't claim to know what Paris Hilton thinks, but she is a rich spoiled brat. However it has been reported that even SHE has changed her ways and she is half of Donald's age. Some people are able to mature out of their bad behavior and learn. Some aren't Donald has never grown and learned.
awake
(3,226 posts)It was the part of the op that a ask DU men to explain the acts of Trump as if being a man gave them some special insight into Trumps actions. I used Paris Hilton as a example on how sexiest it is to assume ones gender would give anyone insight into the actions of someone else who shared the same gender.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)for men. There is a hatred for sexism, but that is a reaction. However, there seems to be something in the male psyche that is violently opposed to all things feminine. I am not saying that all men are like that, but I think that some men might just be able to offer some insight if they really think about it, that's all.
awake
(3,226 posts)"there seems to be something in the male psyche that is violently opposed to all things feminine"
Is as sexiest as someone saying "there seems to be something in the female psyche that is violently opposed to all things massqulain" or if one instead one said "there seems to be something in the white psyche that is violently opposed to all people who are not white" would be clearly raciest. I am not trying to atack you just trying to point how sexiest some of all of us can be heard even if we did not intend to.
Skittles
(153,160 posts)awake
(3,226 posts)No offense intended.
Skittles
(153,160 posts)it reminded me of Spinal Tap
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)opinion piece written by a woman. Or a person of color. Or a gay person. Or a trans person, etc. And then read the comment section. And then observe the incredibly HATEFUL comments below. Ad hominem attacks. Not about what the person has written, but attacks against the person themselves. And then come back and tell me that there is not a problem.
White men write article and while people may disagree with what they might say, they are not attacked for who they are, they are attacked for what they have said. They are not objects of hatred. That is the difference. Obviously you are a man, or else you would see the difference. I obviously will never get through to you because you will never see it. You don't want to.
awake
(3,226 posts)I am trying to point out how assuming men should have some insight into Trumps mind is miss placed I would think than anyone one this site could add insight into Trumps actions. I live in Canada and resent when I as an American am ask to explain Trump I can only assume that men on DU would also feel the same being asked to explain Trump.
allan01
(1,950 posts)id hear from the depths of the house ,,,,"allan egleston,,, im going to wash your mouth out with soap". ( my late mom) ( shed do it too .) very dispciable . note : a jerk is a jerk.
davidn3600
(6,342 posts)They are guys who have very large egos. And yeah, like Trump himself said it's "locker room banter." They think this type of talk makes them look cool and more powerful in the eyes of other men. It's a pecking order type of thing in their mind.
But our society encourages this. These type of guys you find are treated like gods. Society views them as the winners. They are extremely popular in their social circles and they always have a girl on their shoulder. They feel as if they can get anything they want. No one talks down to them. Society also encourages men to have as much sex as possible.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)have grown out of it? I mean, this is just gross. It's creepy. Not only that, but if you aspire to the role of a statesman, you need to behave in a certain manner and this is NOT it. He is socially clueless. I don't care how sexually active you are, but at some point in your life and at some point in your professional career, you learn to be discreet. He has never learned that. He is just a disgusting pig, that is all there is to it.
Maine-i-acs
(1,499 posts)Constantly surrounded by people who swear that he s**ts ice cream.
People who say, pretend, or even believe that he is the greatest thing ever. Many of whom are paid well to say, pretend and believe it. Makes him feel like he actually is.
These suckups satisfy Trump's every perverse desire in order to step into the stench of his phony fame.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)I mean, I don't think most of us can even come close to comprehending the warping of reality that grows out of being that ridiculously rich. He's NEVER had anyone around him, at least not since adulthood, who wasn't paid well enough to smoochy-smooch his ass all day and night long.
So he already thinks he's fucking awesomer than Batman, and he's surrounded by people who have a vested financial interest in adoring the shit of him and pretending like every booger that comes out of the dude's nose is a pure golden ingot.
You take someone who was probably basically decent to begin with but with some underlying mental and/or emotional issues, and run their life through that kind of scenario, and you come out with Michael Jackson.
Put a selfish egomaniac into that bizarro reality, and you get Trump.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)Politics is a completely different ballgame than business. Nobody is going to kiss his flabby ass anymore, even if he does win. He won't be able to stand the heat, especially in the international arena. He might have scores of yes men on his campaign, but if he makes it, those days are over forever. He will never be able to endure the pressure. We will see exactly what he is made of.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)but I don't think he's gonna win.
UTUSN
(70,691 posts)regnaD kciN
(26,044 posts)about a rich kid who drugged, tortured, and raped an underage girl. When asked why he, who had everything, would do something like that, his reply was that "I have everything except something to lose." I think there's a certain mindset among the ultra-rich that they aren't really privileged unless they can flout the most basic standards of human civility, and demonstrate to themselves that they can get away with it.
DBoon
(22,366 posts)Being the alpha primate gives you reproductive rights to all females, as well as the license to humiliate all your subordinate male rivals.
A very brutal and subhuman sense of social hierarchy in other words
ohnoyoudidnt
(1,858 posts)Probably even a well educated and successful woman is beneath any male
in his mind. IMHO
YoungDemCA
(5,714 posts)That's about the best I can come up with for an explanation for Donald J. Trump.
There are a disturbingly large number of men like him out there, too (though by no means, anywhere close to a majority of men). He's just an extremely prominent example of one.
I will say this, though as a young man myself, I've heard some of my peers say things that, while not as extremely disgusting, offensive, or frankly, horrifying as what Trump said/says and does, still disturb me. While comments as shockingly vulgar and sociopathic as Trump's are rightfully condemned, there is still a hell of a lot of room between Trump's language and behavior and treating women with the basic respect that they are entitled to not merely as women, but as human beings - with all of their strengths and weaknesses, positive traits and negative traits, and other quirks and imperfections - and perhaps most importantly, as individual human beings, differentiated from each other in many ways, yet still sharing the same basic human nature. And I'm afraid that far too many of us men are not doing the latter, even those of us whom loath Trump as much as anyone. Lotta work to do.
Doodley
(9,090 posts)Glitterati
(3,182 posts)He married Melania in January 2005.
So, he's a newlywed and trying to "bed" another woman?
Imagine being Melania Trump right now...........
TonyPDX
(962 posts)Matrosov
(1,098 posts)but my post was hidden for being overly graphic. All I did was try to explain how men like Trump view women, as inanimate sex objects, nothing more.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)Sorry if I didn't reply to you personally, I am tired and am going to sleep, but it has been an interesting conversation. Please watch the video that justiceischeap has posted. It is very eye opening. Thanks again for your comments!
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)women are thought of as a means of reproduction- survival of the species. A lot of men have never evolved past that point. Some people are nothing but pure Neanderthals.
roamer65
(36,745 posts)It's a genetic flaw in his family.