Dylann Roof: the case for the death penalty

[ericson00]

One of the reasons I support the death penalty is yes, for some evil acts, retribution is in order. While it's true that the practice of the administration of the death penalty (who gets it vs who doesn't) has racial disparities that must be fixed, thats a reflection of the justice system, not the death penalty itself.

Another reason, not often mentioned much is the danger to other prisoners these psychopaths pose. Dylann Roof would probably be highly sought after by the Aryan Brotherhood. Other mass murderers and psychopaths are good fits for prison gangs. It's kind of hard for other prisoners in the general population to be rehabilitated if they have to kill and stab others to avoid being killed by lifers with nothing to lose.

Dylann Roof: give him the chair!

[saltpoint]

1. I oppose the death penalty in all instances. eom

[50 Shades Of Blue]

2. Just because I think some people don't deserve to live doesn't mean I think

that gives the State the right to take their lives.

Have always been and will always be opposed to the death penalty.

[ericson00]

7. the state does have a right to protect its people, including its prisoners

from some psychopath lifers with nothing to lose. I'm not for death penalty to people who only murder one adult; I think one can make the case that those who murder more than one person, who torture/rape/mutilate a person while he's alive before killing them, or kill children are unique threats to those who could've been rehabilitated.

[50 Shades Of Blue]

9. I don't believe in the death penalty. Period.

[NightWatcher]

3. Nope. Always against murder to show that murder is wrong

[cynatnite]

4. This isn't about retribution, but about justice.

Your reasoning for it is pretty illogical.

[SomethingNew]

5. The death penalty is always wrong.

It is an immoral relic and a serious black mark on our society. It corrupts our culture to the core and has no redeeming charactersitics, even as applied to horrible people like Roof.

[malaise]

6. No to the death penalty

period

[Solly Mack]

8. Fart noises

[Statistical]

10. I use to think that way but is dubious logic.

Lifetime in prison without possibility of parole is a strong enough sentence. Hell some may even prefer death. Then there is the reality that 1% to 3% of people who have been executed are innocent. Many have been proven innocent after being executed. Had it been any other sentence justice although delayed could have prevailed.

Just keep that in mind. If you are pro death penalty you are saying you are in favor of innocent people being executed for crimes they didn't commit. Sorry to be harsh about it but that is the reality. Our legal system will never be perfect. To think otherwise is naive.

[ericson00]

11. why can't administration of the death penalty be fixed like powder/rock disparity?

and how about the prisoners in the GP who risk getting killed or raped because of lifers with nothing to lose?

[Statistical]

16. I am not talking about racial biases. I simply talking about wrongful convictions.

Even if the judicial system only had a false positive rate of 0.1% (that means for every 1000 cases involving an innocent defendant only 1 wrongful conviction) it would still mean one out of a thousand being executed are guilty of no crime.

It is too high of a price.

People ARE wrongfully convicted every year even under an ideal society with no biases, defendants with lack of resources, crooked cops, or pressure for convictions. If you are pro death penalty you are pro executing innocent people as a cost of that system. They are simply collateral damage for a practice which serves absolutely no purpose.

There is no purpose to death penalty whatsoever. How many innocent people have to die in order for you to feel good? 1? 10? 100?

[SomethingNew]

30. I also oppose life without parole

How can we judge with certainty that the person will never be fit to be paroled. Why foreclose any possibility from the outset?

[mike_c]

12. there are no crimes heinous enough to make me support the death penalty....

Actually, I never knew until now that I would write such a statement. Most of my prior thinking about the DP has revolved around the possibility of murdering an innocent person wrongly convicted of a crime. In that context, where there is any possibility, no matter how small, that the justice system might make a mistake, I have always automatically opposed the DP. And of course, as you noted, justice is rarely color blind in America.

But this case is different. The perpetrator does not belong to an oppressed group, but rather has unambiguously embraced an oppressive ideology. There is no doubt about his actual guilt. And the crimes he committed are utterly heinous. So this case clarifies my own thinking for me. No one is beyond redemption, IMO, and even if they are, I do not believe a judge or jury is capable of knowing it beyond all possibility of being wrong. Even when there is zero possibility of an unjust conviction, there is still a human life at stake, and all of it's future possibilities. Those include the possibility of even worse crimes in the future, I understand that, but until we have a foolproof way to distinguish between those who are irredeemable and those who aren't we have no business taking people's future away as punishment for their past.

[saltpoint]

13. The State more properly should

pursue not means by which life is ended but means by which life is sustained, and enhanced, and honored.

It was important that although he entered that church with the intent to commit violence, Dylan Roof was welcomed by the men and women of that group that night. That welcome was genuine. IMO we should draw on that model of welcome, in its genuineness, in deciding the consequence for tragic violence.

[LittleBlue]

14. I support the DP in cases of irredeemable evil

Where the guilt of the murderer is undeniable.

Fry him, slowly. Same with ISIS.

[Statistical]

18. You are pro torture? Sad.

[LittleBlue]

21. I think part of justice is inflicting the same terrible end on murderers

that they inflict on their victims. In the case of monsters like Roof and the ISIS followers, they should feel the unimaginable suffering that their victims endured before their bodies expire.

It won't happen with Roof because we use so-called "humane" methods of execution (whatever is humane about killing?), but the ISIS guys should be put through hell for what they did to people.

[Statistical]

22. That isn't justice that is vengence.

[LittleBlue]

37. Our perception of vengeance vs justice changes over time

What is justice today wasn't viewed as justice yesterday, and it won't be viewed as justice tomorrow.

I don't think that making the murderers suffer a horrible fate is unjust. And I reject the "loss of humanity" argument. We executed many Nazis and Japanese war criminals after WW2, it didn't make us barbaric. It made the world a more humane place to live. It showed wannabe genocidal tyrants that their end would be found in a noose.

Allowing someone like Baghdadi a lifetime of 3 meals a day is unjust. He ethnically cleansed, he raped ritually, he traded slaves in markets. The amount of suffering he inflicted demands a gruesome end for him so that Iraq/Syria can heal. Anything short of that is unjust.

[Uponthegears]

35. It's not even vengeance

Wanting to behave like the most heinous murder is psychopathy.

[Uponthegears]

36. What's more

Someone like Roof, who, notwithstanding the whitewash that is state-ordered psychiatric examination, is seriously mentally disturbed.

What's your excuse?

[spanone]

15. kill someone for killing someone.....don't get it.

never will.

two wrongs.....

never...

[ericson00]

17. does this apply for the crime of imprisoning someone without a license/cause

ie "false imprisonment?" therefore we shouldn't imprison such a person guilty of that crime?

[DCofVA]

19. Dylann Roof is a sociopath and thought that killing those people would make the world a better place

What's your excuse?

[ericson00]

20. sorry, but I'm not into moral relativism. There sometimes IS right and wrong.

This kid was wrong, and needs to pay the ultimate price. We also need to protect people who are able to be rehabilitated (as in non-lifer prisoners).

[etherealtruth]

24. Your position is an example of moral relativism

[Warpy]

23. Political killers should never be in the general population

Neither should they be inhumanely incarcerated in solitary for life. I say put them all together: the Islamists, the KKK, the Christian Identity freaks, the rare POC who targets cops, all of them. Let them enjoy each other's company in a panopticon type unit where there are no blind corners or dark areas away from cameras or guards.

NO to the death penalty, although psychopaths in such conditions would probably wish for it after a while.

[bravenak]

26. I like that idea

[Warpy]

28. Thanks!

There have been panopticon style units built since their introduction in the 17th century and abandonment soon after. While they did the job of decreasing inmate violence and pretty much eliminating gang activity, they were also found to destroy the social bonds of those capable of them and that had an overall dehumanizing effect.

I read about one experiment in the 80s that used them for relative short timers. One lasting aftereffect of the dehumanizing condition of constant surveillance with no privacy at all was extremely low recidivism.

[bravenak]

31. It would please me to see the worst of the worst locked in plastic boxes like Dr Lecter

Tied to a chair all day. We should never take a chance on these creepers getting out so watching them 24-7 would be smart. The added satisfaction of knowing it is torturous punishment helps too. These people are already dehumanized. No chance of them being productive in the future. I am a burn them all type so this seems mild compared to what I would attempt.

[bravenak]

25. He probably wont live that long

I dont mind the idea of paying to keep him alive so he can rot and age while the world passes him by. Keep him confined in a dark cell where he never gets out for more than an hour in the yard a day. Year after year, decades in the cell will drive him mad.

People like him expect attention and fame and interviews. I hope he gets nothing but protective custody and an ice pop on his bday. I hope his ice pop falls on the dirt too.

I hope the only human touch he ever feels is when they come take his body to the morgue when he dies. I want him forgotten. Executions will get him attention and appeals and lawyers and ministers who say he is SAVED!

I remember Eileen Wurnos and how they tried to get her DP knocked down to life. It was a circus and you could see her enjoying the attention and playing martyr. Some people blamed her victims. Wanted her free. Fuck that. Too many racist assholes that will try to save him and have him all over the TV like he matters.

[guillaumeb]

29. That was unforgivable Bravenak.

One ice pop on his birthday, and it falls in the dirt?

How could you wish for that?

[bravenak]

33. I'm just a big meanie pie

I'd still make him pick it up and eat it

[guillaumeb]

27. I oppose the death penalty. eom

[wildeyed]

32. Really?

Give him the chair? Come on! Are we really that bored today? Besides, we don't even use "the chair" anymore.

And I doubt he will pose much threat to anyone since he will have to be in solitary. Didn't some guy already beat the shit out of him?

Death penalty is a moral issue. You are either for or against. I am against. Because it is murder. Not for "racial issues" or because it is inconsistently applied. End of story. If you are for capital punishment in certain cases, you are just for capital punishment.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

34. No. Killing him will solve absolutely nothing.

Let him rot away in prison for decades, a forgotten man, while the rest of the world passes him by.

[TexasBushwhacker]

39. I agree

There's always the possibilty that he will be willing to be interviewed by psychologists and shed some light on how he became who he is

[longship]

38. The chair? Are you mad?

Rephrase that. The chair means burn him alive!

Stop all forms of the death penalty. Especially the electric chair, which fucking burns people alive!

Why not just boil him in oil, slowly?

Or draw and quarter him? Look that one up for your torture fantasy.

No death penalty! Ever!

[backscatter712]

42. They could always use a dry sponge, like in The Green Mile...

I know, I'm a sick puppy...

[frazzled]

40. The people who were in that church that night

Would disagree with you.

[backscatter712]

41. He's a neo-Nazi, isn't he?

Give him the gas chamber. Think of it as poetic justice.