Early Morning Smell of Fascism - Trump Tweets Citizenship Threat for Flag Burning

[bigtree]

Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump 6:55 AM - 29 Nov 2016
Nobody should be allowed to burn the American flag - if they do, there must be consequences - perhaps loss of citizenship or year in jail!

Steve Benen ‏@stevebenen 35m35 minutes ago
If Trump disagrees with your political speech, the president-elect is prepared to possibly revoke your citizenship. That's ... different.

[TBA]

1. Well the Supreme Court Begs to Differ

Texas v. Johnson, 491 U.S. 397 (1989), was a decision by the Supreme Court of the United States that invalidated prohibitions on desecrating the American flag enforced in 48 of the 50 states. Justice William Brennan wrote for a five-justice majority in holding that the defendant Gregory Lee Johnson's act of flag burning was protected speech under the First Amendment to the United States Constitution

[bigtree]

2. Scalia was the deciding vote

[rpannier]

22. Kennedy voted with the majority

He concurred with the opinion

[dhol82]

34. Could a new, hard right majority, Supreme Court overturn that decision?

Just wondering.
If the Orange cocksplat can appoint two or three justices god knows where we could end up.

[JustinL]

43. also Afroyim v Rusk, 387 US 253 (1967)

There the Court held "Congress has no power under the Constitution to divest a person of his United States citizenship absent his voluntary renunciation thereof."

[TheBlackAdder]

3. He needs to be called out for trying to distract people with shiny tin foil flag-wrapping issues

[bigtree]

5. must be something damaging coming out

...he wants us to argue about this today.

[TheBlackAdder]

7. Yep. That's why he needs to be called out. Especially those who follow his bait.

[Snarkoleptic]

4. Off to the greatest page!

Last edited Tue Nov 29, 2016, 09:48 AM - Edit history (1)

[DemoTex]

25. I did not realize DT is potty trained.

nt

[el_bryanto]

6. Loss of citizenship? that seems odd. Maybe i don't understand something but even

criminals who lose their voting rights are still considered citizens aren't they? So what does it mean to lose your citizenship? Could you be deported? To where?

Bryant

[barbtries]

8. mmmm...freedom of speech?

first amendment?

anyone making such threats against our constitutional rights shouldn't be president.

[treestar]

24. It's like they've elected the looney ignorant

uncle who spouts this stuff at family gatherings to be POTUS.

[Princess Turandot]

9. 8 U.S. Code 1481 - 'Loss of nationality by native-born or naturalized citizen'

Citizenship can be revoked for a natural born citizen in very limited situations where they (effectively) declare/show allegiance to a foreign power or if they formally renounce it. Flag burning ain't on the list:

(a) A person who is a national of the United States whether by birth or naturalization, shall lose his nationality by voluntarily performing any of the following acts with the intention of relinquishing United States nationality—
(1) obtaining naturalization in a foreign state upon his own application or upon an application filed by a duly authorized agent, after having attained the age of eighteen years; or
(2) taking an oath or making an affirmation or other formal declaration of allegiance to a foreign state or a political subdivision thereof, after having attained the age of eighteen years; or
(3) entering, or serving in, the armed forces of a foreign state if (A) such armed forces are engaged in hostilities against the United States, or (B) such persons serve as a commissioned or non-commissioned officer; or....

A few more clauses are here: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1481

I hope that the federal judiciary is stocking up on high energy drinks for the next four years.

Edited to add: Naturalized citizens could potentially have their citizenship revoked for some additional reasons; the law above is the one that applies to native-born citizens as well.

[3catwoman3]

30. Allegiance to a foreign nation, eh?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm - DFT (Donald Fucking Trump) amd Russia? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

[Fast Walker 52]

10. Good twitter essay on this madness here

https://twitter.com/AnandWrites/status/803582969596313601

The PEOTUS is a loon.

[raging moderate]

11. Flag etiquette mandates burning the flag when it is dishonored.

American Legion chapters offer to accept worn out flags so they can burn them.

[OldHippieChick]

12. Anyone having served in the military knows this as

does every cub scout.

[angrychair]

37. Well, more specifically

Boy Scouts of America both Cub and Boy Scouting. I've participated in dozens of flag burning ceremonies.

[kydo]

13. He is still tweeting more flag crap only this time he uses Hillary as an excuse

Donald J. Trump
‏@realDonaldTjump

In 2005 @HillaryClinton co-sponsored a bill to criminalize burning of the American flag
Let's see if MSM will mention it, I don't think so!

[Maru Kitteh]

42. DFT is going to spend the next 2-4 years haunted by her ghost.

Stupid sonovabucketoworms.

[world wide wally]

14. But it's ok to not pay taxes for 20 years, I guess

[TheLibIn615]

15. Does this proposed anti-burning legislation extend to crosses?

You don't want to imprison half your base, Donald.

[hexola]

16. Trump is fucking with you...his choice of words are no mistake...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_Protection_Act_of_2005

[bigtree]

17. someone is fucking with you

...Hillary's bill was limited to inciting violence using the flag; ie. public safety, and protecting someone else's property, or flags on federal property.

She voted against a previous constitutional amendment bill criminalizing desecration.

[moriah]

20. He may be, but the 1989 decision was primarily based on protected speech.

No speech, via verbal or demonstrate methods, are protected if they are designed to incite violence or public panic. The "yelling fire in a theater" test.

Burning a flag in peaceful demonstration and making it clear why -- for example, "Trump is saying he wants to 'make America great again', but this is what he's actually doing... destroying it." (Lights flag) -- wouldn't be illegal under the proposed Act according to the 1989 SCOTUS decision, and that was a key element in their decision.

[BigDemVoter]

18. Wow.

He's so PATRIOTIC!

Grabbing women by the pussy? No prob!
Ban an entire religion from entering the USA? Let's do it NOW!
Torture prisoners? Great! Let's break out the water boards!
Insult the parents of a US soldier killed in battle? They're Muslim! They deserve it!

But the flag? No--It SYMBOLIZES our precious country! Let's revoke citizenship over it!

[Baitball Blogger]

19. He's talking straight to his supporters.

This is what they want to hear.

[bigtree]

21. may be

...but the pres-elect is projecting to the entire country that he has no regard for basic American constitutional rights of citizenship and free speech.

If there is such a thing as American influence, this is also a signal to other nations that the U.S. no longer stands in defense of these rights around the globe.

[treestar]

23. Sorry Orange Moron

the laws already determine when loss of citizenship could occur and the Supreme Court has already decided flag burning is covered under Freedom of Speech.

[TNNurse]

26. Best I can tell Trump and his demented followers

care more about the flag than they do actual human beings. He cares not about climate change, education, clean water and air, work place safety, healthcare and just about everything that actually impacts our lives. He cares about a symbol.

As we watch party of our beloved Smoky Mountains National Park burn and local resort towns badly damaged, I really do not care about that flag one bit.

[pangaia]

27. SHiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiTTTTTTTTT on this fucker....

[Guilded Lilly]

28. Dense as cement, shallow as a thimble, dumb as a box of hair...

The Cretin and all of his very base, base.

[Equinox Moon]

29. Maybe a delegation on the dreaded inauguration day will bring flags to burn?

I won't be there in DC, but plan on protesting in my own city that day.

I still shutter with revulsion, it is an actual physical response to this madman.

NOT MY PRESIDENT!!!

[3catwoman3]

31. That picture in the OP is...

...sooooooooooooo disgusting. A hollow and creepy gesture.

Some years ago, I heard a caller on a talk radio show eplain that in Englang, old flags are cuts into pieces and used to polish the brass on Navy ships. The intent is to remind people that it is the symbol that matters, not the actual fabric. The caller sounded as if he had reason to know about this.

If I am wrong, someone please correct me.

[idahoblue]

32. Flag Humper in Chief

He has no knowledge of our Constitution.

[DallasNE]

33. Here Trump Is Verbally Burning The American Flag

By calling for revoking citizenship for an act of free speech - one I think is counterproductive because that flag is mine too. But free speech nonetheless. Trump goes way beyond that here, though.

[maddiemom]

35. Something that's bothered me for years...

Didn't the proper disposal of a worn-out flag used to be by burning? I remember learning this many years ago in Scouts. That was a few years before Viet Nam protests and related flag burning. Was that when it changed?

[Still In Wisconsin]

36. Burning is still the correct method for flag disposal.

[maddiemom]

40. Thanks!

[SHRED]

38. Why stop there?

What about the disrespect shown to the flag by commercializing it? Having it's image on clothing? Having it's image on disposable paper goods?Tearing it to shreds mounted on the back of trucks at freeway speeds?

Paragraph 176 sections (d) and (i).

http://www.usflag.org/uscode36.html#36

[Historic NY]

39. They ought to make it criminal to make it into clothing....

so many so called patriots have to wrap themselves into it to express themselves. The only time you saw a flag as clothing, itwas a patch. The next closest was red-white-blue striped clothing.

Wait that is already in the flag code.....

[DemocraticSocialist8]

41. Trump can't legally do that...he's running off at the mouth like he always does

when someone upsets him. If he TRIES to do it, he'll create many more enemies than he even has right now. At this rate, his approval ratings will be in the 20's by the 2018 midterms lol. He'll be the most hated, despised and disrespected President in American history.