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pstokely

(10,525 posts)
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 02:11 PM Nov 2016

WHY MILLENNIALS ARE AVOIDING SMALL-TOWN AMERICA

http://www.ozy.com/fast-forward/why-millennials-are-avoiding-small-town-america/34058

The kids aren’t just flocking to the city proper, either, but to the metropolis writ large, including the fancier suburbs. The top destination for millennials is the D.C. suburb of Arlington, Virginia, where their ranks grew by a staggering 82 percent between 2007 and 2013. Arlington’s median home sale price is $557,250, and in just 10 of the 290 Arlington apartments listed on Zillow could you live alone for less than $1,200 a month; a couple of them might even give you more than 600 square feet to knock around in.

An enterprising millennial with a flexible employer might hop across the Chesapeake Bay to the historic district of Cambridge, Maryland (pop. 12,690), with a porch overlooking the Choptank River. With a thriving downtown and arts district, Cambridge was No. 10 on Livability’s list of Best Small Towns in 2013. Homes go for $164,154 , and a monthly $1,200 rental will get you a detached house or a 1,600-square-foot townhouse.

But affordable real estate and waterfront views don’t have millennials biting. They “continue a multigenerational pattern of young adults preferring more expensive urban areas over lower-cost rural ones because the lifestyles and opportunities in such places make the extra burden of cost worth it,” says Robert Lang, professor of urban growth and population dynamics at the University of Nevada, Las Vegas.

Which is to say: Getting to a big city — or at least near one — still has the smell of success. “We don’t all hail from small Midwestern towns, but most came from places where they felt limited — small town Maine, suburban west Texas, California’s Central Valley and the Inland Empire,” wrote 20-something Brittany Shoot of her friends and neighbors in the San Francisco Bay Area. “It’s easy to find people who will sneeringly complain about how trapped they felt as teenagers.”
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WHY MILLENNIALS ARE AVOIDING SMALL-TOWN AMERICA (Original Post) pstokely Nov 2016 OP
Right. Because nothing illustrates "freedom" better than paying 2 bucks/sf monthly rent. n/t lumberjack_jeff Nov 2016 #1
Diversity does, though. Hortensis Nov 2016 #12
The dialectic writ large lumberjack_jeff Nov 2016 #13
This is reality, not silly dialectic. Can the ignorance and go read? Hortensis Nov 2016 #15
I have no alternative than to know all about what you and other city dwellers think. lumberjack_jeff Nov 2016 #17
And that is why many flock to the cities dbackjon Nov 2016 #24
"Edge cities" on the periphery of old urban areas have been the focus of growth for a couple decades FarCenter Nov 2016 #2
kinda yes, I prefer to live in more diverse communities which means city life but.. JHan Nov 2016 #3
Cities are becoming less diverse, too. LisaM Nov 2016 #5
Yeah it's bad in San Francisco JHan Nov 2016 #21
Oakland's not far behind SF Lonusca Nov 2016 #25
This is happening in Seattle - big time - it's not the city I moved to. LisaM Nov 2016 #4
I lived in Seattle off and on from late 1950's to 1980's..... dixiegrrrrl Nov 2016 #8
I don't even know WHY they want to live here. LisaM Nov 2016 #10
I lived in Seattle (Mountlake Terrace actually) for three years 30 years ago. lumberjack_jeff Nov 2016 #14
Sure, if it's small town versus big town. LisaM Nov 2016 #16
Is quality of life measured in the number of restaurants nearby? lumberjack_jeff Nov 2016 #18
No, not really - just an example. LisaM Nov 2016 #19
Or, the fact that many of the progressives LEAVE, and the left-behinds dbackjon Nov 2016 #27
It's happening here in Los Angeles too. Initech Nov 2016 #9
Sad melman Nov 2016 #26
Interesting. I suppose it makes a certain amount of sense, MineralMan Nov 2016 #6
Because it sucks. alarimer Nov 2016 #7
"Brain Drain" is a real thing. Who'd have thunk our glorious U.S.A. could ever be so afflicted? hunter Nov 2016 #11
This old man likes my acreage outside of town. panader0 Nov 2016 #20
Here's why I moved to Los Angeles: taught_me_patience Nov 2016 #22
We all strive for different things. SQUEE Nov 2016 #23
Freedom Lotusflower70 Nov 2016 #28
"How ya gonna keep 'em down on the farm. . ." DinahMoeHum Nov 2016 #29
I suspect they avoid it for the same reason most of the rest of us do. BigDemVoter Nov 2016 #30
 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
1. Right. Because nothing illustrates "freedom" better than paying 2 bucks/sf monthly rent. n/t
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 02:18 PM
Nov 2016

Last edited Tue Nov 29, 2016, 02:58 PM - Edit history (2)

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
12. Diversity does, though.
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 05:34 PM
Nov 2016

The more liberal people are, the more likely they are to want to live where everyone is NOT like them, where they can eat Korean and head off to a free concert in a part, where everyone from the wealthiest to the homeless gather to enjoy reggae music.

Conservatives, generally speaking (there are exceptions!), tend to feel very differently, heading for smaller, homogeneous communities and the comfortable feeling of being surrounded by people like them. And since communities aren't entirely stepfordish, they tend not to support municipally funded concerts that would have to serve just anyone...

This is all creating an unprecedented geographic division by personality types. Very problematic, reinforcing bigotry by separation, but that millennials prefer the former is at least a very positive auger for the future. They will soon be the largest group of potential voters in the nation.

 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
13. The dialectic writ large
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 05:43 PM
Nov 2016

Rural people suck because all us 21-30 year old college educated whites are moving to the suburbs.

...And cuz diversity!

Pro tip: the ability to see a free concert in the park is nice. My native american co workers and our clients with disabilities don't have that privilege

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
15. This is reality, not silly dialectic. Can the ignorance and go read?
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 06:01 PM
Nov 2016

Tons of books have been written about this phenomenon in a variety of disciplines, but short but enlightening articles are available for just a quick search. No excuse for ignorance.

And the resentments of determinedly victimized mentalities don't make a whole lot of sense to those who share a lawn with people just like you but privileged nonetheless.

Btw, why not TAKE a disabled person to a concert? If you don't it's not the fault of "dialectics."

 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
17. I have no alternative than to know all about what you and other city dwellers think.
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 06:05 PM
Nov 2016

Everything magazine article written, every film produced, every TV show ever made was written by your peers.

The reverse is not true, so please don't presume to tell me what it's like here - you don't know.

Why not take a disabled person to a concert? Perhaps next you'll suggest I do it on my solar powered bicycle. The ignorance of what rural living is like is completely staggering.

 

dbackjon

(6,578 posts)
24. And that is why many flock to the cities
Wed Nov 30, 2016, 04:04 PM
Nov 2016

Why they pay $2K for a tiny apartment.

So they CAN bike to a concert, or walk to a bar, or a thousand other options. Things they didn't have the FREEDOM to do in a small town or rural area.


The FREEDOM to be themselves, without whatever non-normal activity they wanted to do flies around town, and they are shunned.

The Freedom to have a life not centered around First Baptist Church.

 

FarCenter

(19,429 posts)
2. "Edge cities" on the periphery of old urban areas have been the focus of growth for a couple decades
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 02:24 PM
Nov 2016

JHan

(10,173 posts)
3. kinda yes, I prefer to live in more diverse communities which means city life but..
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 02:39 PM
Nov 2016

skyrocketing rents and gentrification are killers. We need to build more homes.

Zoning has had a pernicious effect on costs. Rich home-owners have the leverage to control land use policies and use that leverage stonewalling efforts to build housing in their neighborhoods. Developers are left with no choice but to switch to cheaper neighborhoods. These developers put pressure on residents to sell, build their luxury apartments/condos and drive up housing prices in the process. The presence of condos means more rich people will be attracted to the area and a once affordable neighborhood becomes expensive. So while cities are the hub of opportunity, it's easy to get priced out of taking advantage of those opportunities . It's frankly a mess - Again, we need more homes.

LisaM

(27,806 posts)
4. This is happening in Seattle - big time - it's not the city I moved to.
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 02:40 PM
Nov 2016

The downtown retail core - what's left - is mostly bland chains. The Bon Marche and Frederick and Nelson are long gone. The only bookstore in the downtown area proper (other than used bookstores which, yes, I like too) is Barnes & Noble (Elliott Bay moved from Pioneer Square to Capitol Hill a while ago). The working waterfront is diminished. The old union halls are becoming luxury housing and boutique hotels. The music scene is almost extinct. Places like 7-11 and Jersey Mike's (a sub chain) will suddenly open up 5 locations simultaneously while the mom and pop delis disappear. People are being evicted all over and their affordable housing knocked down. You should see the banks of I-5 driving in to downtown from the North end - where there aren't clusters of people living in tents, there is their detritus - a lot of trash, ripped blankets, food containers, bags.....

I don't really know where to go from here. When I moved here (late 80s) there was a vibrant music scene, not just the famous bands, but Pioneer Square was hopping with jazz clubs and a joint cover. There were still lots of dive bars. You could get a cheap breakfast. The bus system was still run by the city. And there was still a pro basketball team.

Millennials are pouring into the city and while I appreciate some things - particularly their tolerance on social issues - I can't make out what they want the city to be. A huge suburb? (There's a big Target in the middle of downtown that gets a lot of business). A place that pulls down the shades at 10:00 p.m. (downtown is pretty dead by that point)? Just luxury apartments where they can den while the streets are quiet, or worse, dangerous? A place where income disparity seems to grow by the minute?

I moved here to be in a relationship, but the things I appreciated about the city when I came are vanishing so quickly it's not even funny. Gone are the longshoremen who you might see in a bar after work, gone are the 24-hour diners (they call them "broilers" and there used to be a few of them), long gone is the original music scene, gone is any semblance of this being a place for the working class, gone are the bookstores, gone are the little jazz clubs, gone are the affordable hotels (moved for Amazon HQ), gone is affordable rent, gone is the ride-free zone that used to welcome people downtown, gone is almost everything that gave this city its character. And for what? Where do people shop and eat? I don't want to live in a town where everyone shops online (this used to be a great place to shop), and where new restaurants with $15 craft cocktails pop up and then leave because they're priced out, while there's nowhere to go get a couple of cheap beers with friends after work. Almost gone is the wonderful quirky "gayborhood" that used to be Capitol Hill - I have seen people literally stepping over evicted and now homeless people to go into the latest bar or restaurant and the vibe that area used to have has vanished. And disappearing are the wonderful neighborhoods that used to be a hallmark of the city.

Seattle was built on unions and on labor. I feel as if the newer workers are trying to turn it into something else, but I can't even figure out what.

dixiegrrrrl

(60,010 posts)
8. I lived in Seattle off and on from late 1950's to 1980's.....
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 04:52 PM
Nov 2016

and so remember the neighborhoods, esp. Green Lake and Ballard, and the deliciousness of Farmer's market shopping on a Sunday morning,
on how easy it was to navigate without a car. Very walkable city, even the trudge up Yesler Way.
I worked in the Smith Tower for awhile, and near Harborview Hospital.
Watched the end of the 1970's bring a recession and thousands of new people migrating from California, prices skyrocketing.
and again in the 80's, same thing.
Haven't been back since late 1980's, but my son and brother who live there are telling me exactly what you are saying.
Steel and cement everywhere, hole in the wall restaurants and bookstores are gone.
I cannot picture it.
I don't want to picture it.
and I cannot afford to return.

Don't know how the hell millennial and others can afford to live in the PNW any longer.

LisaM

(27,806 posts)
10. I don't even know WHY they want to live here.
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 05:11 PM
Nov 2016

I mean, other than the obvious well-paying jobs, but given the lifestyle I see many of them following, I don't see why it matters to them where they live, unless they come from a place where they are facing actual oppression based on being gay or foreign or for political choices, etc.

The times I see the most young people actually outside (and I'm not doddering, I'm in my 50s and quite active, still go running, walking a lot, etc.) are when there's a ComicCon or some other Con, or a few months ago when they were doing Pokémon Go for a few weeks. Seems as if they could have almost the same lifestyle somewhere else; in the meantime, all the things that made Seattle what it was are gone.

 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
14. I lived in Seattle (Mountlake Terrace actually) for three years 30 years ago.
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 05:58 PM
Nov 2016

Even back then, I can still remember someone passing me on the street whom I recognized and could wave to. At the time, I realized that it had been three years and this was the first time it had happened.

I moved back to a small town. Small town life is important to me. I can't understand the allure of anonymous nameless obscurity. I think it has something to do with the psychology of standing in line - the more people in line suggest validity for my perceived reasons for standing in it.

I wonder if lemmings feel the same need to belong.

Jogging around Greenlake at lunch is the only thing I miss.

LisaM

(27,806 posts)
16. Sure, if it's small town versus big town.
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 06:03 PM
Nov 2016

I get that. I've lived in both. I actually like small towns, although I like a little more variety in my life than the same, say, three restaurants can offer me.

I don't understand why anyone would want to move to Seattle (or San Francisco, for that matter) while completely disregarding the forces that built and informed the culture in those places. Why would you move to either town if you just wanted the working waterfront sanitized? Why would you move to San Francisco if you didn't feel an affiliation with the writers who lived there, or with the Beats? Why would you come to Seattle if you didn't want to live in a slightly gritty city with deep labor roots?

That's what I don't understand.

 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
18. Is quality of life measured in the number of restaurants nearby?
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 06:08 PM
Nov 2016

I truly don't understand either.

I work in an EXTREMELY gritty small city with deep labor roots. Sadly, due to neglect it's now become red.

LisaM

(27,806 posts)
19. No, not really - just an example.
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 06:12 PM
Nov 2016

I do like small town life - a lot - but I find I end up doing the exact same routine over and over. I personally do better with a mix - I live in the city, but spend a fair amount of time in small towns, grew up in one. I actually grew up in one that was five miles from a college town, so I got the best of both worlds.

It's complicated.

 

dbackjon

(6,578 posts)
27. Or, the fact that many of the progressives LEAVE, and the left-behinds
Wed Nov 30, 2016, 04:07 PM
Nov 2016

Are the right-wingers, who are too mortibund to change, so they blame everyone else for their problems.

Initech

(100,068 posts)
9. It's happening here in Los Angeles too.
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 05:00 PM
Nov 2016

The downtown area by Hollywood is getting snatched up by property developers inch by inch. I go to the Arclight Theater a lot as well as the concert venues around there (Henry Fonda, Palladium, etc) and it's barely recognizable anymore. Tall apartment buildings and hotels, and dull chain restaurants are replacing any character the city had left, and rent is getting so out of control that you have to have a six figure salary in order to live there.

 

melman

(7,681 posts)
26. Sad
Wed Nov 30, 2016, 04:07 PM
Nov 2016

I makes me sad to read this. I lived in Seattle in the '90s, and often miss it and think of returning. But all the things I miss are gone now anyway. Sad.

And the things you describe are happening in NYC, Austin, SF, etc. Really all the great cities are losing their character, becoming bland and mall-ified.

MineralMan

(146,288 posts)
6. Interesting. I suppose it makes a certain amount of sense,
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 02:58 PM
Nov 2016

but there are lots of opportunities outside of our major cities for millennials. They might want to look around a bit more and consider their options a little longer. It's a time when people have more flexibility with their choices, and it's a shame if people ignore opportunities outside of familiar big cities.

Personally, if I were in that age group, I'd start looking for moderate sized cities that have a good-sized college in them as a potential place to move. Much of the cultural benefits exist in those, too, but housing and other costs can be considerably lower, and there are opportunities to start businesses in such places that might appeal to the entrepreneurial types.

But that's just me. These days, I live in St. Paul, MN, but for most of my life I lived in one of those smaller cities that had a University. Actually, I lived in a suburb of that smaller city for over 35 years. I didn't miss the clamor of a major city, nor did I miss out on being part of a younger generation's culture.

I suggest that millennials look a little longer at alternatives to just getting by in a major city. There are many advantages to a smaller scale urban area. Cities with a population between 50-100,000 are often wonderful places to live, with most of the benefits and few of the drawbacks of large urban centers.

hunter

(38,311 posts)
11. "Brain Drain" is a real thing. Who'd have thunk our glorious U.S.A. could ever be so afflicted?
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 05:24 PM
Nov 2016

Listen to that great sucking sounds as brains and big money abandon the Trump America Homelands, leaving them suffering as soon-to-be road kill on the great grifter highway.

panader0

(25,816 posts)
20. This old man likes my acreage outside of town.
Tue Nov 29, 2016, 06:15 PM
Nov 2016

Up against the BLM land I have lots of privacy, only ten miles from town.
My kids , on the other hand, wanted to get out of here ASAP after high school.
One in Richmond, Va., one in Seal Beach, one in Denver and one currently in
Coast Guard classes in Va. They all went urban.
I have seen many huge cities, London, Paris, Rome, Hong Kong, Bangkok,
Manila, Mexico City and all the big US cities except Atlanta. I'll stay on my acreage.

 

taught_me_patience

(5,477 posts)
22. Here's why I moved to Los Angeles:
Wed Nov 30, 2016, 03:42 PM
Nov 2016

I'm an older Millennial/young Gen X. I believe in myself and my talents and wanted to move to a place where the reward was limitless. I wanted to be the best and compete against the best that the nation and the world. I will admit that it's not for everybody and a lot of people do not have either the skill nor the mentality to make it. That's totally fine too. To me, knowing that my life is limited only by my ability and drive is priceless.

Several years ago, I opened a coffee shop and was instantly immersed in a world of the best baristas (in america and the world), the best roasters, the finest coffee, and hippest shops. None of which would have been available in a small town. It was an awesome experience. It was truly inspiring to see people around you striving to master every little detail to be the best in the world at their craft. Needless to say, the competition is insane and I ultimately lost hundreds of thousands of dollars. The experience was priceless.

The thing that I've found real pleasure in is the level of people living in the city. Its fun to go to work when your colleagues are smart, driven, educated, and witty. It's exciting when your 35 yo friend sells his business for $10 million. Those around you help elevate your life higher than you thought possible.

SQUEE

(1,315 posts)
23. We all strive for different things.
Wed Nov 30, 2016, 03:56 PM
Nov 2016

And I went the other way, from urban complex to rural simple.

Best coffee I ever had was camping in the Gila Wilderness on a cold November weekend. The view, the company and the atmosphere did far more than the microfoam and silky mouth feel of perfectly extracted exotic bean. It's fun to hike the trails when your comrades are just as educated, driven and witty, but have centuries of life experience and trail craft to impart.

And yes..Those around you help elevate your life higher than you thought possible. the peaks I strive to gain are different from yours, doesn't make me slow or dim.. just different.

Lotusflower70

(3,077 posts)
28. Freedom
Wed Nov 30, 2016, 04:16 PM
Nov 2016

A huge part of the appeal is the freedom to explore and be who you are. Even the freedom to be anonymous. In small towns, everyone knows everyone else's business. I am 10 minutes from the city but I live near walking and biking trails and water. It's the best of both worlds to me. Lots to do and liberating.

BigDemVoter

(4,150 posts)
30. I suspect they avoid it for the same reason most of the rest of us do.
Wed Nov 30, 2016, 04:51 PM
Nov 2016

and I CAN say it, as i grew up in small town America. I have NO desire to go back.

In any case, I think I'd rather live in a true small town than in some soulless suburb.

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