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Locut0s

(6,154 posts)
Mon Dec 5, 2016, 05:22 PM Dec 2016

America is its own undoing. Trump represents the inevitable culmination...

Trump represents the inevitable culmination of that quality which so uniquely represents the American experience, the love of simplicity, and the deep distrust even hatred of needless complexity. Strip it all bare, get to the nub of the truth, the simpler the better. Now of course this quality is ironically what has actually truly "made America great" in the past. The American Narrative is in some ways astonishingly simple, America is a place where one can be anything. It's a place to remake yourself, to live your dream, reinvent your past, create your own narrative. A place where one can be free from the dead weight and bonds of class struggles, the dead weight of history which seems to predetermine ones possibilities in the "old world". As an outsider this to me seems to define what it means to be an American, strip away all the heavy useless ornate trappings of the old, get down to the kernel, free yourself, invent yourself. And indeed this IS an aspect of America that IS great! I believe this narrative is what has driven America to become the engine of the world that it is now. In it there is this palpable sense that anything is possible, reach for the stars. I am of course aware that I'm partaking in the very same process of oversimplification in my description, I'm stereotyping America. But I think there is an important aspect of truth to what I'm saying.

But in this narrative there also lies a dangerous seed that sprouted long ago. A sprout that grew into a vine that now threatens to strangle the host. This love of simplicity and distaste for complexity is a double edged sword. It can lead to walking on the moon and it has, but it can also lead to never leaving your home. As a healthy force it's an abstract concept, a muse, any scientist, mathematician, or artist will attest to the fact that simplicity is beauty. But taken literally it's a dangerous force. Because the simple answers, while often true are not ALWAYS true. Complexity, and indeed even seemingly needless and ugly complexity has an extremely important role to play.

In its abstract it drives people to better themselves. Taken literally it drives people to feel they ARE better BECAUSE they are simple. This second narrative is the vine. It's a cancer, and it grows in the hearts of the right wing, the left wing, the democrat, and the republican. It takes the form of the love of ignorance, home spun truths are the only real truths. The salt of the earth are by this definition almost holy.

I don't need to listen to YOUR truth because in this great nation of ours the only truth is MY truth. And MY truth is simple, it's uncluttered, it's easy to understand, it explains everything, so it must be THE truth. The spirit of my nation tells me this must be so.

But of course there usually IS an objective truth and it isn't always pretty, neat, or clean. The professors in their ivory towers aren't always to be mistrusted. But those living in trailer parks aren't always ignorant either. Both are complex PEOPLE. We seem to have lost sight of the fact that we are dealing with people. And people are complex. This love of simplicity has become a love of stereotypes. And so America has a blue west and east cost and a deep red heartland and never do the twain meet. Indeed democrats on the coasts think of the red states as "flyover" country. Hicksville. Trailer Park Land. And those in the heartland no doubt picture those on the coasts sitting down to sip afternoon tea from expensive china as they chat about the new rules at the local tennis club. Or hippies getting stoned in tie dyed shirts. Don't get me wrong I count MYSELF as a member of the former group, but perhaps because I have some geographic perspective on the matter it seems clearer to me that there has to be more to it than this. I am not saying that I don't DEEPLY detest a LOT of what republicans have come to stand for, indeed most of what they have. But perhaps some of what they have come to stand for has been driven by this same process. The racism, xenophobia, sexism, hyper religiosity. And on the other side of the coin we liberals need to take a hard look at what we have come to stand for, perhaps the picture isn't as pretty as we think?

At any rate we are where we are because of this narrative. And Donald Trump is in some ways the inevitable outcome of the kind of tribalism we have descended into. A sociopath who gamed the system. A rabblerouser who rose to power by stoking the flames of our hatred for each other. Divide and conquer. And we could not be more divided.

I guess the question is now what? I don't know. We clearly need dialogue between the 2 sides. The country needs healing. But this isn't JUST a uniquely american problem although it seems to have reached a zenith there. The world over we are seeing the rise of Trump like figures. This is a dark dark path we find ourselves on. In the past roads like this have led to world wars, the fall of civilizations. Has it ever been possible to walk it back from this point?

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America is its own undoing. Trump represents the inevitable culmination... (Original Post) Locut0s Dec 2016 OP
I think the Balkanization of the US is not far off. Aristus Dec 2016 #1
Does Minnesota get to be part of Canada? LakeVermilion Dec 2016 #2
And again I would say that your post also shows what I'm talking about... Locut0s Dec 2016 #4
Don't you see within your own post exactly the problem I have described? Locut0s Dec 2016 #3
It was 62 million Americans.. mountain grammy Dec 2016 #5
Perhaps you are right... Locut0s Dec 2016 #6

Aristus

(66,361 posts)
1. I think the Balkanization of the US is not far off.
Mon Dec 5, 2016, 05:36 PM
Dec 2016

I can see sooner or later various regions of America shearing off and going their own way. The progressive coasts will no longer have to be dragged down by the insular, backward, regressive regions of the interior. By the same token, the current red spots on the national map will no longer be able to depend on the economic largesse of the more highly productive blue regions. They'll have to get up off their fat white supremacist asses and put in an honest day's work for a change.

Locut0s

(6,154 posts)
4. And again I would say that your post also shows what I'm talking about...
Tue Dec 6, 2016, 12:53 AM
Dec 2016

I know you are joking. And as a Canadian I am flattered and wish I could invite you as a citizen. Believe me I don't say this to anger anyone on here. We are all on the same page here. But like it or not you DON'T get the choice to be with Canada. The neighbours you detest you have to live with. BUT... perhaps if both us and "them [conservatives]" could manage to sit down at a table and hash out our differences both would come away realizing that while both of us seriously DETEST some beliefs that the other side holds dear, that in other respects we are both a lot more human than we like to think. Because the REAL enemy is Trump, the people he is installing. Because I don't believe that 47% of America really is as terrible as Trump and the people he is surrounding himself with. Sure we might find that we can barely stand some of their views, but that's human nature.

Locut0s

(6,154 posts)
3. Don't you see within your own post exactly the problem I have described?
Tue Dec 6, 2016, 12:48 AM
Dec 2016

I don't want to start a flame war or ruffle feathers. But you wrote "They'll [Republicans] have to get up off their fat white supremacist asses and put in an honest day's work for a change". Don't you agree this is a stereotype of "the other side"? Again remember I said that I detest what the GOP stand for and it's VERY difficult for me not to agree with you, because I want too. And I know that it's true too that a hell of a lot of plain worthless scum voted for Trump. However I know that a LOT of conservatives are certainly not lazy, not hard working. Indeed the opposite is usually true of MOST people regardless of political affiliation. Trump got roughly 47% of the popular vote. I don't care what you say I refuse to believe that 47% of Americans are Neo Nazi sympathizers. But that IS how they voted. I believe they voted so because they were manipulated by a sociopath and media that is in bed with corporate interests. There is a lot of genuine suffering, genuine anger at play, and deservedly so. Much of working class america has had the rug pulled out from under them and they feel they are disrespected and not listened to. Largely because both of these things are true. But when your personal religion has at its core the concept of hatred and mistrust of anything "learned" you are a ripe target for manipulation.

mountain grammy

(26,621 posts)
5. It was 62 million Americans..
Tue Dec 6, 2016, 01:18 AM
Dec 2016

roughly 25 to 30% of eligible voters, and, yes, I believe most are neo nazi sympathizers or racist, or white supremacists, or some other deplorable. They're not the majority, or even close to 47% of the population, but there's a whole hell of a lot of them. The Nazi party wasn't the majority in Germany when it came to power. At the end of his disastrous presidency, 30% of Americans thought W was doing a good job. I'm sure they all voted trump.

I blame evangelical Christians, but that's probably just because I'm an atheist.

Locut0s

(6,154 posts)
6. Perhaps you are right...
Tue Dec 6, 2016, 01:36 AM
Dec 2016

I hope you are not because if you are I really don't have ANY hope left to cling to

And FWY I myself am a strong atheist *high five*

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