President Obama knows more than he told in news conference yesterday.

[kentuck]

I have a hunch there is another shoe to drop.

I cannot believe the CIA and the FBI had this information about Russian hacking and did nothing about it?

Did they tap the phones of Donald Trump or Paul Manafort? Are they still collecting information?

After all, we pay the intelligence agencies billions and billions of dollars to gather intelligence that will protect our people from foreign enemies.

Do you believe they have more information on Donald Trump? Something has happened when James Comey and FOX News come out in agreement with CIA that indeed, the Russians were hacking our political system. They must have seen something?

[tosh]

1. I sure hope so.

[Wellstone ruled]

2. Remember LBJ

talking to Everett Dirkson via Phone about Richard Nixon's promise to come to a peace agreement with North Vietnam if they continued the War. until after the Election. LBJ said we have the recorded messages as well as other messages.

There is a hole lot more to come. Be watching the Market opening in Asia tomorrow afternoon. BTW,Putin's Oil Company will take a hit shortly,major US sale of Oil from the SPRO to hit this week or next.

[yeoman6987]

11. President Obama and family are in Hawaii for 3 weeks

Maybe when he gets back.

[Wellstone ruled]

14. Obama pretty much turned in his keys yesterday.

The Man bit his tongue during his Presser,a few times I thought he was really going to let go on the Stupidest Press Corps ever.

[ailsagirl]

24. I thought it was only two weeks??

But I believe there's more going on than is being revealed at this time.

[Hekate]

31. I'm always surprised at DUers who don't know that POTUS takes his job with him everywhere.

Right down to the PDBs and the nuclear football. Obama has taken fewer vacations than any other modern president, last I looked, and yet some here think he should be chained to his desk and padlocked to his chair in order to "prove" to them that he is working.

[Wellstone ruled]

39. My comment was towards the useless Press.

[zentrum]

44. It's more the optics.

We know about working vacations but for media and psychological purposes, it looks a little too escapist. He only has 4 more weeks. Not much time to carry out what he said in his presser. It undercuts the urgency of what he said to the country.

It might help perception of the Dems as strong, on it and unified if he in fact cancelled his Hawaiian get-away. Have to look like you're leading even as you lead. That's just the way our media culture works.

You can just see the TV picture of him in the waves smiling on the evening news tonight. Why give them another way to savage us Dems as out of touch?

We're all in despair, mourning, shock and even terror and he's in the sun. It looks elite, even if it isn't. It's not like the previous 8 years when he'd come back after a vacation. After January 20th, he can go to Hawaii for a year if he wants to. He couldn't wait?

He may not deserve to be chained to his desk but the country is now chained to Trump—so, yeah, there's something to be said for him staying state-side as a message of solidarity.

[Hekate]

47. You know, some people here have been saying that for 8 bloody years. Optics.

Give me a break. More importantly, give that man with the gray hair, gray face, and the deep grooves in his face a break.

For the umpteenth time, Hawaii is a state in the union, not an elitist getaway. Real people live there, doing real work, and it is, after all, his birthplace.

How I love the way Democrats eat our own.

[sheshe2]

54. Thanks for this Hekate.

People here have always trashed this President. Always, never good enough always screaming that he has sold us out when he was in fact was working for us every day.

Hell remember when the seals took out Bin Laden? Earlier that evening he was cracking jokes at the Correspondents dinner. FFS! It never stops!

Yes, like he is on vaca and not on top of things at home.

[narnian60]

60. +1

[phylny]

65. This. He has aged years in months.

I am so sad.

[zentrum]

66. Not about Hawaii.

It's the vacation when he has less then a month left and that it's the day after that presser.

But please—be as freely misunderstanding my point and my intent as you wish.

[Hekate]

70. Every time someone younger than a WW II vet pairs "Hawai'i" and "stateside" as opposites....

Last edited Sun Dec 18, 2016, 12:38 AM - Edit history (1)

....they are proudly proclaiming their ignorance of and disdain for the 50th State. They are saying we are alien and not a part of this Union. Too exotic to be "real Americans."

It grates on me like it grates on all of DU when someone strolls in here and refers to the "Democrat" Party, and for the same reason.

I get your point very well. This president has no right to a day off when he looks like he is sick in body and soul from what he has just witnessed.

Yes, we are all of us gobsmacked and gutpunched, and we were mugged from behind. Based on his previous record, I say he's hard at work behind the scenes. He'll keep at it while getting some much needed and well deserved rest in an atmosphere of love and friendship .

[zentrum]

76. Yeah, sure....

--I'll get off your lawn.

With Trump taking his victory lap to large rallies across the country, while Obama goes on an Aloha vacation, because, according to you, he's too tired to wait another month despite the trouble we're in, I sure hope the Democrats get a better grip on how headlines, images, and messaging works. I've already read one that says "Obama Leaves for Vacation Day after Threatening Russia". Just great.

I also hope the sense of urgency within the Party is such that every criticism of how many of our leaders are addressing the disaster of this election is not always characterized as trolling. We need some serious and immediate soul-searching.

BTW--Your assumptive base about how I should talk because of how old you're stereotyping me as being, smacks of reverse agism. I was purposely using the terms huge numbers of Americans use for the geographic remoteness of Hawaii from the mainland. But okay---attack the messenger if you don't like the message.

I'm done.

[WhiteTara]

77. You're done? Well, bye bye. nt

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

50. Oh really?

Have to look like you're leading even as you lead. That's just the way our media culture works.

That rule applies only to Democratic leaders. Just watch how little Trump looks like he's leading and how little the media and the Rs find wrong with it.

[sheshe2]

56. Hell, Don and wifie....

have no intention of even living at the WH, not good enough for them. Guess there is not enough gold to surround them. If that is not a slap in the face to all Americans I do not know what is. Our house is beneath them.

Dear Goddess.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

58. Thier refusal to make the White House their home is bad on a number of levels.

Last edited Mon Dec 19, 2016, 07:11 AM - Edit history (1)

How much taxpayer money will have to be spent to protect all of Trump's many residences?

How often will he be off on golfing trips and the like, which somehow was a dire problem whenever President Obama dared leave Washington, even when on actual state business, but which will be perfectly fine when Agent Orange does it?

The hypocrisy of the Right is more rabid than even I had ever imagined, and I always thought of them as astoundingly hypocritical bastards.

[sheshe2]

59. You are right on all accounts. DnSK nt

[zentrum]

67. Yeah, that's the point.

Rump looks like he's leading (to those who voted for him), even though he's totally incapable of leading.

The country is effed up. So we Dems need to at at least know how it works with our MSM and not hand over to them the narrative of "out-of-touch", at a time like this. Just watch the field day they'll have with pictures of him "leaving early". Looks like Rump drove him out of town. That's just the ignorant way it is now.

[elmac]

21. Yes, LBJ caught Nixon in a treasonous act just before the election

He made the same mistake President Obama did, didn't release this news to the general public. It gave us 8 years of tricky dick.

[7962]

26. Oil sales from the SPOR arent supposed to start till '18, from what i've read

And I think its a stupid idea anyway.

[CentralMass]

3. No. Those days are over in this country. Nothing will happen

[Tanuki]

4. Anyone who thinks President Obama isn't working on something significant

that he did not disclose at his presser wasn't paying attention when he joked around at the Correspondents' Dinner in the most casual and relaxed manner.....

the night before the Navy Seals took out Osama Bin Laden.

That is all.

[greatauntoftriplets]

7. Second that.

And he said that retaliation on Russia would be at a time and in a manner of his choosing. He can't change the Constitution at his whim, of course.

[BlueStateBlue]

17. He looked absolutely drained and exhausted.

Which tells me he is working very hard.

[katmondoo]

33. I thought the same thing

He was so cool that I cannot believe he will do nothing about the hacking

[KamaAina]

5. He basically said as much.

[Chasstev365]

6. Sorry, but I think you're waiting for the Great Pumpkin

Why wouldn't they declassify the Russian intelligence for the Electors in the Electoral College to see before Monday's vote?

If they had something that big, why didn't come out before the election?

[Hortensis]

13. Obama is extremely not stupid, also extremely

responsible. There are many, many big things we don't know, there are many also very knowledgeable people weighing benefits versus likely costs, and there are reasons for everything we do.

One obvious constraint on the particular ways with which we might punish Putin's attacks on us is that in a month our idiot Trump would be faced with the consequences. It must not be anything that, mishandled, could catapult us into overt war. We have to punish Putin without destabilizing the situation further.

On the subject of speculation, Maddow pointed out that Putin was now believed by our intelligence services to be the wealthiest person on the planet, imprisoning and murdering plutocrats who had "purchased" Russia's national wealth for peanuts and taking ownership of their estates. She had reason to suspect we might attack Putin's wealth; but, since it's secret, its disappearance would not be something the world would see happening. Only Putin and his circles.

[Auntie Bush]

19. I hope ou are right! Would love to see that man lose much of his illegal wealth.

I'd be scared to be a multi millionaire in Russia for fear Putin would like my money and have an I on it.

[GoCubsGo]

28. Taking a page from "Trading Places"?

Like Bill Valentine said, the best way to hurt a rich guy is to make him poor. Rachel could be onto something. I have little doubt that whatever President Obama has in mind is likely already underway. All I can say is that having watched him for the past 8 years, I would not want him pissed off at me.

[bettyellen]

30. Didn't a Russian bank get hit just a few weeks ago?

[Cracklin Charlie]

43. I recently was informed of Putin's alleged net worth.

Apparently, no one ever knew before that he was worth so much, even though he only makes 130K per year. I'm sure the citizens that pay his salary were shocked to learn how much he had stolen from them.

That information must have come from somewhere.

[bettyellen]

62. The culture of corruption and KGB fear has never entirely left Russia...

Always been a lot of scams involving civil servants and locals conniving together. I almost got arrested for breaking a toilet in Novgorod. People told me it would have taken a 2k bribe even if I sweated it out for 36 hours for the embassy to open. I actually threw the lady an elbow, she folded and made it to my bus in time.

[Hortensis]

82. Wow, scary. So fortunate your choice of action worked.

I've read (sadly, never visited) that acceptance of authoritarianism is very, very old and extremely pervasive in Russian culture. The czars shared absolute power over the people with the patriarch of the Russian Orthodox Church until the revolution, which will only be 100 years old in a couple months.

Reportedly, one problem we have is that the Russian people wouldn't be at all shocked if they learned just how much Putin was stealing. Sort of like conservatives here who have decided to ignore Trump's lifelong swindling and other crimes and admire him for being a "successful" businessman--but deeply embedded in their culture. Proof that an elected leader is actively sacking and impoverishing his nation should be a very potent weapon against him. In reality, it's about as powerful as a rotted stick.

[Ilsa]

80. I was thinking Obama would

Find a way to attack his wealth also, even placing blame on FSB. Or find a way to bust his power. All done with a long game and no harm to russian people.

[Hortensis]

83. "Busting his power" would be great. If that happens,

though, it'll probably be because the strong men whose support is required to keep him in office decide they can do a lot better with someone else. Obama's, and other nations' to a lesser degree, program of sanctions was reportedly trying to hurt them all economically enough to weaken Putin and discourage national aggression against their neighbors. Hillary, of course, intended to keep the screws tightened.

Trump, of course, will be sworn in next month. And that's a reality for any plan to retaliate against them. Unbelievably, we now have to worry about an admiring Trump administration developing a Russian-style kleptocracy in America, a fake republic where right-wing voters are kept loyal by focusing their resentments on pretend enemies and threats, elections are won by subverting democracy, and the sacking continues.

[cwydro]

15. Sadly, I gotta agree. nt

[SammyWinstonJack]

27. We're all Linus Van Pelt.

[malthaussen]

42. Well, the first reason that leaps to mind...

... is "to protect the sources." Simple redaction might not serve the purpose, since there are many ways counter-intelligence can identify sources, and Russia is not too tender of civil liberties to begin with. It might well be that no sufficient abstraction of the investigation can be compiled without putting the sources in harm's way.

-- Mal

[Aimee in OKC]

48. Sources in harm's way ...

this time is perhaps being used to get them moved, or set up cover stories in place, etc. We wouldn't ever know.

[libtodeath]

8. Maybe waiting for after he is sworn in on the hopes of impeachment?

That would give us a fundy nut with Pence.

[Adsos Letter]

10. We get Pence anyway.

He intends to serve in the same capacity Darth Cheney did during the Bush administration.

I suspect Trump's antics will serve as cover for him.

Be prepared for some giant steps toward theocracy.

[2naSalit]

22. Be aware that impeachment is one thing

a formal rebuke, it requires the Senate to actually vote to remove him from office to get him out of office over the issue of impeachment. Might get impeachment w/o removal (as with Clinton), would just make him nastier and more vindictive toward we serfs.

[PearliePoo2]

9. I keep hoping someone or something will stop this impending nightmare.

Man, I hope you are correct. I've never felt such doom and gloom.

[pangaia]

12. I don't really "know" anything, but

some good friends, very well-educated and world-traveled friends, in Russia, Finland, Norway, The Netherlands, Latvia, Ukraine, Italy, etc., have a different take on what is going on than perhaps most of us do, sometimes only shades of difference, sometimes clearly different, sometimes radically different.

Some, clearly, have opinions and views that most of us here would definitely agree with. Some have views that would get 'banned' here. :&gt )) SO it is a real mix...

Two of them, that I know of, speak 6 languages. Several speak 3-4 languages, and all speak at least two. I only mention this for 'background' on one of the different world experiences between these folks and many of us. Some of us, perhaps many, are somewhat isolated, in a way.

Some of these differences, obviously, are from their own prejudices, same as us; some just from different views on the US and world politics in general; some from just having more/different/wider information than 'we' do; some is lack of understanding of the real horror trump is to Americans, and the subtleties of American politics, for starters. Some is that for the most part, these people live much 'closer' to Putin,' for example, than we do.

My Finish, Ukrainian and Latvian, friends (I only have ONE Latvian friend), in particular, are very, very sensitive to what is happening, as you may well imagine..

But with all that, and trying to filter out the obvious misreadings, putting all there views in a jar, shaking the jar and tossing them out on a table, etc., I DO, in fact, get the very distinct feeling that there is much, much more going on than we imagine, both domestically and internationally with this whole thing..

Of course there is always MORE going on than we know, and we will never really know all.

But, my readings of what they say and discussions with them, lead me to ... keep an eye open for.... something....

[Pachamama]

20. What specifically is their take on situation?

[pangaia]

72. As I mentioned,, many different opinions...

-- Hillary was a bad or the wrong candidate
-- the DNC is to blame
-- Putin is to blame
-- the election is over, dems should get over it
-- the US is getting its just rewards for.. you name it..
-- that trump could get elected says something dire about the USA in general
-- Americans should know better

But none of these opinions are expressed, at least in my opinion, as at all anti- American. In fact, quite the opposite.

-- I will say that I do not think some/many of them realize the horror of the situation. I could be wrong.. I mostly 'listen' and do not post too much, but I do discuss and ask questions. I have been, thus far, more interested in learning where they stand than expressing my views..


The strongest sense I get from them is that all that we see is just the surface of what is really going on internationally. Living in what is mostly Europe, they and their parents and grand parents have seen these things happening every day for years and decades up close and real...The web of intrigue is thick and deep.
The CIA, NSA, FBI FSS etc etc, and other 'security agencies' in '1st world' countries are really good at what they do and there is no way we are being told what is really going on...

Anyway, re-reading this, I did not explain very well.. But... hope you can read between the lines...

[Generator]

75. Yeah I know what's going on Putin is playing to derail NATO

steal a few Baltic countries back and now Putin has Trump in his pocket. This election is going to make Russia great again. That is all. It was even in the RNC platform.

http://www.npr.org/2016/08/06/488876597/how-the-trump-campaign-weakened-the-republican-platform-on-aid-to-ukraine

Russia gets Ukraine. Russia destroys Aleppo. Russia co-owns America. But thank GOD Obama isn't "political" about it. The Republicons might dislike him or something.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/12/15/swedish-towns-told-make-preparations-regarding-threat-war-conflict/

And Sweden is preparing for war against Russia. That's what's going on.

[pangaia]

78. With that I can agree...

US still has military vehicles, stored in Trondheim.( What a beautiful city, BTW)

More US ships in Mediterranean---

etc

[ananda]

16. Honestly ..

.. I don't think this clear treason is something Obama
wants to deal with or prosecute.

Of course, any Reep president would if it were a Dem
in Trump's position.

[Skittles]

18. doesn't matter what he knows, it what he DOES

and he will DO NOTHING

[Hekate]

35. So said Bin Laden before he went to sleep with the fishes

[Skittles]

45. riiiiiiiiiight

let me know when he held BUSH INC accountable or when he takes action on the Russia hacking

[kentuck]

46. The partisan politics was the last blockade...

He may replace FDR as the president that saved capitalism?

[Skittles]

49. um

he'll be the guy who didn't hold bush inc accountable and paved the way for trump inc

[dflprincess]

71. I really don't care if he ever does a damn thing to Russia

but I'd like to see the hammer brought down on the talking Cheeto who sold us out to Putin.

[Generator]

74. Agree Obama led torturers slide

Now handing that legacy to a despot wannabee madman.

[jack_krass]

55. What does that have to do with anything? You dont think hes going to try and "off" Putin do you?

Putin is a head of state of a major world power.

[Hekate]

61. Of course I don't think that. I think he is not going to share the details of his next move with us

....and the world.

[2naSalit]

23. Man, if ever there was a really good time for

aliens to show up and straighten out our stuff, right about now would qualify.

[The_Voice_of_Reason]

25. Think it comes down to "Peaceful Transition"

I think there is another shoe to drop, or perhaps multiple pairs of shoes to drop...yet, "We the People" are receiving very little information on this. I heard a pundit on CNN today state that we need to be patient, will get our answers in 15-17 months after a full investigation. We do not have that long, and am against a "Peaceful Transition of Power" if it means letting Russia destroy the basic concept of "Free and Fair" elections here in America.

[MineralMan]

29. Of course he does. However, the die is already cast.

Not enough time remains for anything to change the outcome. That is the reality.

Obama's a statesman, first and foremost. He knows what can be changed and what cannot, and isn't about to throw a monkey wrench into the works at this point.

All of that will have to wait until after the Inauguration. There is simply not time for the kind of investigation, hearings and other bureaucratic machinations that are required. President Obama has set the wheels in motion, but will not be sitting in the driver's seat for the journey ahead.

He's gone to Hawaii. Soon, he'll be gone from the White House, too. His capacity as President in these matters is essentially over. Since he can do nothing to change the outcome, he will, wisely, do nothing. However, he has started things moving in a direction. We'll see what others do with that.

President Obama is almost ex-President Obama. He's had his innings and accomplished much. Now, he will be an elder statesman.

[TexasBushwhacker]

34. I agree. We can raise all the hell we want

But Trump IS going to be President. There's just no way around it.

[MineralMan]

36. More's the pity.

The time we could have changed that passed on November 8. Not enough people in enough states voted for Hillary. Who's responsible for that? All of us and all of them. A different campaign strategy and better GOTV in rural areas might have made the difference, but those didn't happen, either.

Yes, there were many unfair things that happened, too. But we could still have won. We didn't. It's our fault and their fault, whoever "they" are.

Now, we have to start thinking about 2018. And we'd better get together on that and not keep splintering like we did this year. If we splinter, we'll lose it all and maybe for good.

[oldtime dfl_er]

32. There is a LOT we don't know

And there have to be very good reasons why Obama is acting the way he is. We cannot even imagine the pressure he must be under, the threats that are probably being issued right now.

Yesterday I was upset that he seemed to be putting a "peaceful transition" ahead of the good of the country. Today I believe he is trying to keep us from catastrophe and his relative silence is a part of that process.

Things are scarier than we all care to admit.

[MineralMan]

38. You could be right...or wrong.

I do not know.

Time will keep passing, and we will know more as it passes.

[Boomerproud]

51. I hope not enough time passes so that Trump and his allies can get control of the narrative.

We really need this to be totally transparent folks. I agree something big is going down, and Obama HAS to win this.

[oldtime dfl_er]

81. There may be things going on

that could get people killed. Covert operations, whatever.

[VisceralM]

37. I'm sure...

...There is more. I'm also sure not much is going to come of it. There isn't anything standing between the orange one and the oval office now. The best we can hope for is impeachment in the first 6 months. And that's not likely either with the republicans controlling things.

[AlexSFCA]

40. strategy

Anything that democrats say now will be taken by trump voters as partisan. I am coming to the conclusion that the best approach might to be silent and let repulican infighting begin.

[kydo]

41. 12/20 will be interesting but look for stuff to go crazy when he gets that intel report.

I think he is waiting for two things. The EC to vote and that intel report he ordered on the election. That report will lay out everything. And it is to be done before he leaves office.

[HoneyBadger]

64. The report probably was drafted months ago, based on Obama having been alerted in 2015

Do you think that they are out there doing new research? The report is going to be existing material reformatted for security and impact. To reflect Obama's perspective. Most of it has already been in the press. These are government employees preparing a report for the President. No typos allowed. I doubt that there will be a single thing in that report that Obama and the top 20 people in the US government do not already know.....

[doc03]

52. Don't get my hopes up if they had tapes of Trump, Paul Manafort

or one of the other traitors it would be the best Christmas present ever.

[fleabiscuit]

53. It might get interesting for both tRump and Pukin.

I had a weird thought today about PBO and how he might push Soviet buttons with economic retaliations for their attack on out elections. The President is one individual that has authority to see tRumps tax returns. It would be interesting if economic retaliations include ones that would also put the hurt on the man that Putin helped. It gives me a little happy to think about.

[CakeGrrl]

57. He almost certainly does

...but it's tiring to see yet one last pivot to this POTUS needing to save the day.

Anyone who paid an iota of attention to his appearances throughout his Presidency knows that he has asked, and asked, and asked, this electorate not to give the GOP the keys.

I'll allow that his language has been softer at times than I would like. I would have preferred that on the campaign stump for Hillary that he flat-out said "They are coming for your SS. They are coming for Medicare. I've worked my entire term to stop it, and if we don't elect Hillary Clinton, there will BE no stopping it."

That said, the whining never stopped about how he wasn't doing enough. He was expected to save everything single-handedly, and the notion of those who hoped to 'punish' him with the 2010 handover to the GOP was idiotic.

Maybe it's finally time for the non-voters and the misinformed voters to finally see the impact of voter apathy and ignorance. If people can't be proactive with their vote, then the lesson to be learned will be a hard one.

[many a good man]

63. Buckle your safety belts

Bombshell will fall after the electors' ballots are counted that there is evidence of collusion between the Trump campaign and Russian hackers.

Trump's deluded followers will disbelieve the irrefutable evidence as CIA and liberal media propaganda and an attempted coup. Obama will continue body surfing in Hawaii.

[Tatiana]

68. I definitely get the sense he has made some tough decisions in the last month.

I do believe the evidence is being gathered for articles of impeachment.

I also believe that covert actions are being taken implemented against Putin. These may include attacks upon his wealth, as well as his political power. Remember, though we're making a YUUUUUGE deal (deservedly so) about a foreign influence in our national elections, we have engaged in this type of warfare for decades (e.g. Iran, Guatemala, Chile, Ecuador, Brazil, Cambodia, Vietnam....the list is too numerous). The United States (via the CIA) has supported coups and installed dictators friendly to American interests around the world.

Obama knows this. He doesn't want to come across as a hypocrite. I agree that there will be attacks on Putin's personal wealth. I think there may be some political meddling as well. We also need to consider Putin (and Russia) may not be acting alone. The U.S. has many enemies.

There is more out there on Trump. I just hope this country survives the upheaval.

[Ilsa]

69. I don't think the action will hurt the Russian people,

although they have their heads up their asses over trumputin.

I think he's probably got the cyber warfare people in the NSA working on a long game. Something slow, methodical, quiet, to cause putin to either lose his power or wipe out his riches. I think it may not happen for 1-2 years, and he may not take credit for it. It wouldn't surprise me if the nsa kept the info from trumputin since he's a security risk.

Our nsa ran a cyber program that kept infecting and destroying iranian centrifuges without them ever knowing why until the virus was ramped up by a third party ("ally&quot and released (stuxnet).

[SHRED]

79. He's body surfing in Hawaii

All part of the multi dimensional chess game he's playing.