I don't fucking care where the money comes from - as long as it's legal. We are at war with the GOP

[ehrnst]

for the future of democracy, and that will take EVERY legal tool/weapon at our disposal.

I want legions of lawyers, ones who will use every trick in the book.

I want private detectives if we need them.

I don't fucking care if the money for it comes from Soros, Gates, "Big pharma," or whatever.

I don't fucking care if it's 'tainted' with corporations. We are not, repeat NOT going to win this thing on $25 donations, especially if people at risk aren't going to have it to spare under Trump.

If we unilaterally disarm financially out of 'disgust' we will lose this country. Appearing to be an "oligarchy party" won't matter if we are under fascist leadership.

As Barney Frank said of taking corporate money for his campaign, then passing regualtions on Wall Street, "Someone can take you to dinner, and you don't have to sleep with them, even if people think you did."

[get the red out]

1. I agree!

The corruption, and oppression, we are about to experience from Trump will dwarf any kind of normal, corporate sleaziness.

[Maru Kitteh]

2. Hell to the YES. nt

[Lifelong Protester]

3. I don't want any namby-pamby

"play nice" crapola either.

[ehrnst]

12. Let alone for a $10 minimum wage when $12 was deemed 'unacceptable' in the primaries. (nt)

[KittyWampus]

25. there used to be some good Irish Democrats who got things done.

[Hekate]

33. They were the rough and tumble recent immigrants and offspring, the upward strivers.

The ones in that category in 2017 are going to have different accents and look different as well. We can do this.

[oldtime dfl_er]

4. I agree

I hope the Mark Cubans of the country will put their money where their mouths are. I can donate a few bucks here and there but nobody listens to a few bucks.

[ehrnst]

5. Yep. We need to not turn our nose up at genuine allies because "oh NOES!! OLIGARCHS!!!" (nt)

[HassleCat]

6. Barney Frank is wrong.

Molly Ivins had it right when she said, "You got to dance with them that brung ya."

[ehrnst]

7. So why did Barney create Dodd Frank? That weren't dancin with Wall Street. (nt)

[HassleCat]

8. Because he believed Molly, not himself.

If he believed his principle applied across the board, he would favor no regulation.

[ehrnst]

9. I have no idea what that means. (nt)

[HassleCat]

11. He is saying he is honest.

When he says he doesn't have to sleep with whomever took him to dinner, he is correct, as long as he's only speaking for himself. The fact that he sponsors campaign finance regulations shows he believed other politicians have problems with trading money for influence.

[ehrnst]

14. Dodd Frank wasn't about campaign finance - but bank regulation. Are you thinking McCain Feingold?

[Initech]

10. I am going to be majoring in forensic investigation.

I will use whatever tools are at our disposal to be able to fight GOP corruption.

[Hortensis]

17. Good for you.

[Madam45for2923]

42. Awesome idea!

[Initech]

43. There's going to be a need for a lot of accountants the next four years.

Especially with all the billionaires in power. This will be one way of fighting back!

[mcar]

13. K&R

[Spitfire of ATJ]

15. It's only money....

What actually counts is VOTES.

....which look like they're programed.

[ehrnst]

21. Money gets people on the ground, neutralizing the messaging that the GOP has taken over. (nt)

[Spitfire of ATJ]

44. There are plenty of examples of someone outspending their opponent and losing.

[ehrnst]

45. Yep, but no instances of less money being better at getting the message out. (nt)

[Spitfire of ATJ]

55. Helps to have one.

[ehrnst]

68. She did. (nt)

[Nwgirl503]

16. I agree

We can also do our own PI work in the meantime. I've sussed out idiot FB posters who have made threats. Just today I reported a guy to the DOJ and DHS who said on a live feed that he had almost all of the EC electors home addresses and if they didn't vote accordingly, he'd publish their addresses so they could be "dealt with".

Besides government officials, we need to be dealing with the people who support him.

[Hortensis]

18. An over-excited moment. Our biggest strength is

being of, by, and for the people--as always before--America's bulwark against attempts to destroy democracy by what has become a dangerously corrupted, increasingly extremist right-wing party. That is the reality behind all the false equivalencies.

We are the keeper of the flame of our democratic republic, which was created by liberals of that day and passed down to us. We do nothing to endanger that flame.

[ehrnst]

20. But as we have seen, if there is enough fake news, people don't know that about us.

They think that we are elitist, godless, babykilling, police-thwarting, welfare queen enabling enemies of the "real americans" who turn to "godly" "masculine" leaders in times of difficulty.

We aren't going to be able to do anything to counter that until we are in office, and that takes money.

That's not "over-excited," that's reality.

[Hortensis]

27. The Obamas have it: We go high. People are

confused too much already by fake news. It HAS to remain fake.

Remember, we won the majority vote. We didn't do it by behaving badly. We need to fight smarter, not lower.

Btw, the term "fake news" is in common use now. It was not before November 8. We have 4 years to build on that new awareness, held by even those already claiming anxiously that all truth is fake and all fake is true.

[ehrnst]

35. We lost because they had more ammo. They had the Kremlin. They had Comey.

That will not be solved with 'going high."

[Lucky Luciano]

19. We need a liberal version of Cambridge Analytica.

[ehrnst]

22. Yes, we need such a tool. And I'm sure that it's available for the right price. (nt)

[Uponthegears]

23. Let me just say

The "money wins" crowd didn't exactly bring it home on November 8, 2016, did they?

Edited to add:

The only people that Big Money were able to defeat in 2016 were OTHER DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY CANDIDATES. I guess if your objective is controlling the Democratic Party that might be considered a "victory," but most of us were hoping for more than that.

[ehrnst]

34. Those swastikas and confederate flags were about Wall Street and corporations?

I missed that.

I think that OTHER DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATES shot themselves in the foot with their choice of campaign directors, micromanaging, and lack of ability to listen to their field managers, or anyone who disagreed with him, or any of his inner circle of old white men.

And they told people it was about "big money," when they were being helped out with expensive ads by conservative superpacs who wanted him to be the candidate.

And he STILL couldn't win.

[ehrnst]

48. I'm "insulting every black voter that worked for Bernie?"

By pointing out that Bernie had old white men as his inner circle?

Straw man much?

[Cryptoad]

24. DNC must start to rebuild from,,,

all the local levels up in all the states. That take Mo $.

[Mira]

26. Does that money buy the courage

to use it in those manners?

[ehrnst]

29. I gives you the ability to act on that courage. I saw lots of it this election. (nt)

[alarimer]

36. No, it means Wall Street gets its way on legislation.

It is a pure quid pro quo. They send money to candidates, committees or the convention, you'd better believe they expect something in return: lax regulations that benefit themselves at the expense of ordinary people. Same with other corporations. Do you think Uber or Google or GE are going to donate out of the goodness of their hearts to "save democracy" or some bullshit? Not a chance. They don't care about democracy. They care about what's good for their bottom line. If bribery or extortion works, they will use it and our representatives will be so beholden (for winning) they will give it to them, at the expense of all of us.

It's the golden rule: Those that have the gold, make the rules. Democrats had better be careful who they get in bed with, because there will be a reckoning sooner or later. And that reckoning will be in the form of watered-down regulations.

[JHan]

54. well the reckoning is here with us, now.

Trump will roll back regulations.

Just to give an example: Hillary giving a Wall St Speech to Goldman Sachs is chickenfeed compared to Trump hiring a notorious Goldman Sachs exec for Treasury Secretary.

Big money will always want to play, we have to play too and make our voices heard. Too many citizens don't care about politics, and if citizens don't care or understand power, they get left out.

[covadcalifornia]

28. ...agreed except Big Pharma

They are the reason my health insurance premiums have gone up 86+ % since 2013. Big Pharma is the enemy of the state (single payer)...

we can't accept that if we are ever going to have affordable health care. they have killed Obamacare. If my insurance had gone down $2500 per year my payment ( as I think it was really believed to have been possible) should be $ 829.00 per month - as of January 2017 I am at $ 1978 per month for a family of 4 and I do not qualify for any help.. Big Pharma is killing ALL of us -

Sorry - just can't let that one issue slide / be forgotten etc. Even if i know you mean it tongue in cheek.

[ehrnst]

32. There are many reasons that an insurance company jacks up prices

Not that I am defending overpriced drugs.

The GOP killed Obamacare by cutting off funding streams, and letting states opt out of medicare expansion - which did affect the price of premiums, and the number of companies that would even offer coverage in certain states. Insurance companies are blaming many things on higher premiums that aren't actually related to the higher premiums, BTW. "Obamacare is requiring us to raise our premiums" was a frequent message from employers (primarily republican leaning ones) and insurance companies.

We can point to bogeymen all we want, but it is a distraction from doing what actually needs to be done. Hillary was VILLIFIED by many on the left for 'being in bed with Big Pharma," because she didn't rage against them night and day, and 'gasp' worked with them both in developing her original health care proposal, and in the Clinton Foundation.

The Clinton Foundation got Big Pharma's cooperation in selling HIV/AIDS drugs in bulk at a lower markup, and formed the partnerships with countries that needed them - and would guarantee the large purchases. That seemed distasteful to many purists, but IT GOT THE JOB DONE, and didn't compromise either the profits or the prices needed to get them to vulnerable populations.

We NEEDED that kind of know-how in the White House to pull that off on a bigger scale, not simple rage and hope that the companies would respond to hostility with something positive.

If Big Pharma wanted to contribute to get democrats into office that would work that way, we should absolutely be raising money from them.

[Alice11111]

30. You can't fight nuclear weapons with BB guns...

even if you are opposed to nuclear weapons. Dems must get real. The more we lose, the harder it will be to win. Republican power will create and strengthen the obstacles...gerrymandering, voter suppression, and that doesn't even address fake news, Russian sabotage, etc. This mamby pamby, Obama wimpy (and I used to love him), obsession with how we are "perceived," is guaranteed to destroy the "truth" and our country, if it already hasn't.

[Hekate]

31. Amen.

[spooky3]

37. It's an awful system but we can't change it until we get power.

K&r

[First Speaker]

38. If we are literally at war with a pending fascist dictatorship...

...then "all legal means" will be a recipe for defeat. The whole point of fascists is that they don't give a rat's ass about "legality". The GOP increasingly doesn't care about the laws--they simply rewrite them to suit their convenience...see North Carolina. I agree that the GOP is indeed moving towards outright fascism. The only alternatives, in the long run--and not-so-long-run, for that matter--will be either acquiescence or resistance, and I genuinely don't know what the answer is. I do know that lawyers aren't going to save democracy.

[ehrnst]

47. When one is speaking about things publicly

Last edited Mon Dec 19, 2016, 08:49 PM - Edit history (1)

One speaks of what is appropriate publicly. Especially in an age where eyes are everywhere - but illegal activities leave one open to being taken down. The idea that one is above the law may be the way that Rump and company leave themselves open to injury.

And lawyers have been able to get around obstacles that those who are less informed about the system cannot.

[Equinox Moon]

39. Don't Play The Game

Don’t play the game that has been dealt to us. Most of us are caught in a web that is constantly supporting the very issues we are fighting every day. Yet, not playing the game requires radical changes for each of us.

Here is but a few: Don’t use big banks; put your money in credit unions. Don’t fly on airplanes, change your lifestyle and stay close to home. Don’t spend your money at the big box stores, support the local ma & pop shops. Don’t use cell-phones, LAN lines still work just great. Don’t buy cable, it is all junk anyway. Stop supporting poisonous food practices and buy organic, non-GMO foods. Don’t buy “made in china” stuff. Only purchase the stuff you really NEED anyway and reuse, renew and share the rest. Stop using credit cards, it feeds the billionaires. Use cash to pay for your groceries. Credit card fees are income for the billionaires. Get out of the stock market, it feeds the billionaires. Just think about all the ways in your day-to-day life that supports the billionaires, which is supporting Republicans, which is supporting the radical-right “so called” Christians, which also supports white supremacists and the hate.

Maybe it is time for a Gandhi Movement: Civil disobedience, resistance, and changing the choices we make in our day-to-day lives?

[ehrnst]

46. I'm talking about a campaign - not where you put your checking account. (nt)

[Equinox Moon]

49. Hillary had plenty of money and lost anyway.

What campaign are you trying to fund with any and all kinds of money and lawyers?
I seem to not understand your thread and I feel my comment is directly related to our collective political mess.

So, we have a miss here. That's okay. Be well.

[ehrnst]

50. How would having less money have been an advantage?

I think that the Democratic party would do well to fight fire with fire, and that takes money.

I think that part of our mess is that we are playing by very different rules than the GOP. They took hacked information and used it to their advantage, and I think it absolutely put them ahead. They have no scruples whatsoever about using any and all advantages to win.

I think that as long as we stay above the law, we need to do the same. That will take money, and we should accept it where it is offered.

Again - the stakes are way beyond simply losing elections at this point. We are dealing with a potential fascist state.

[Equinox Moon]

58. Ok. I understand.

Dem leadership needs better strategy dealing with the outrageously, brazen, coup-masters of the GOP. I don't even see the GOP as part of the same country I envision and live in.

It is a depressing night tonight, with the EC votes in. Next month it begins with the probable fascist state.
Let's get creative together. I agree with that.

[pnwmom]

61. By less than 80,000 votes in the Electoral College. If Comey hadn't dropped

his two letter bombs she would have won.

[pnwmom]

60. Don't fly on airplanes, change your lifestyle? Spoken like someone

who's loved ones don't live thousands of miles away.

[Equinox Moon]

62. I do call it radical.

I might start a thread with my comments for a good discussion.

Yes, having family live far away is part of the radical shift. I don't know the answers for each situation, but maybe if they are really important to you, someone moves?

[pnwmom]

64. Family members are on the west coast, on the east coast, and in between. No, moving

isn't an option.

[Imajika]

66. Why am I not supposed to fly on airplanes again?

I kind of need to in order to get from place to place to both visit family and for work.

I'm lost on why we shouldn't fly on airplanes or travel far from home?

What is the benefit of that in the larger fight to stop the GOP's radical agenda?

[Equinox Moon]

67. I think I need to write a paper on this to be better understood.

It is a deep and radical change/shift.
We would need to look at the chain of events that effect everything. The answer to your question is not a simple one, it is very involved. Here is one angle to look at it: One aspect of plane usage is the fossil fuels (and pollution). Who benefits from fossil fuels? Billionaires. Who runs the GOP agenda? Lobbyists for the oil industry. So on and on the web is woven.

So to not fly on airplanes, is a radical shift of how your life is lived. Until the populous does this, we keep supporting the very issues we are upset about. Make sense?

[SaschaHM]

41. I said not to bring a knife to a gun fight during the primary.... but nope....

[ehrnst]

51. If you are referring to the Democratic primaries

Guns were provided by more than one conservative superPac, in the form of anti-Hillary ads run in states where Bernie wasn't doing well.

It doesn't matter what you bring to a "gunfight" if you can't find your butt with two hands.

[SaschaHM]

56. No.. there was a huge argument about political funding and how

"We shouldn't be like Republicans and accept big money/have super pacs"
To which my response was to fight fire with fire. A moral victory over political funding does not matter if you are a minority party in close to every level of the U.S. Government.

[rzemanfl]

52. Where do you stand on setting people up with hookers? n/t

[Truth321]

53. Don't need more money

We need a message that resonates. Plain and simple.

[LittleBlue]

57. Yes, let's ally with the noble blue corporatists to defeat the evil red corporatists

The forces that propelled Trump to victory are the same ones that corrupt our party. Trump isn't the cause, he's a symptom of a broken system. A formerly functioning system that corporate money broke.

[backscatter712]

59. Funny thing about Soros...

...is that he's not a bad guy.

I've heard every tin-foil-hat conspiracy theory about George Soros and his sinister manipulations to take down America with his billions of dollars and black helicopters, but I haven't heard one such story that isn't bullshit.

And really, a lot of the Soros conspiracies are cooked up by the Klan, the neo-Nazis, and other bigoted fuckstains, because *GASP* he's Jewish.

If Soros wants to contribute to fighting Trump, I'm more than happy to have his help.

[ehrnst]

69. Tell it to the "We need to get away from big donors" crowd. (nt)

[littlemissmartypants]

63. Time to organize.

And resist.