General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsCongratulations, GOP! Here is what you have WON!
Four years of living in fear! Youll shiver, youll quiver, youll shake in your boots every time your pPresident opens his mouth! With each passing day, youll wonder what idiotic spew will emanate from his pie-hole maybe hell just piss-off your once-loyal constituents, or maybe hell trigger an international crisis!
But wait theres MORE!!!
Youve also won a pResident whose blatant incompetence will be on display for the whole world to see! And guess wholl get all the credit for putting a complete buffoon in the countrys highest office thats right, you will!
But thats not all!!!
Youve won four years of watching your pResident doing untold damage to the Republican brand! When citizens start losing their Obamacare, guess what? Theyre not going to blame the black guy who gave them affordable coverage theyre going to blame the orange guy who took it away! When people see their social security checks slashed, theyre not going to blame the Democrats theyre going to blame your party! And when funding for food stamps is gutted, no one is going to tell their hungry kids to yell, Thanks, Obama! Cursing your pResident when the larder is bare will mean hours of fun for the whole family!
In addition, youve also won:
A pResident who will enter the WH with over half the voters having voted against him, which means NO mandate to do anything. Over half the country is waiting for him to fail bigly! and they will be pointing-and-laughing at every mis-step, every gaffe, every mis-statement, every display of stupidity. They will also be blogging, tweeting, and posting on websites and social media about every single thing the Clown-in-Chief says or does that damages the country and its citizens.
You might want to remind Trumpelthinskin that if hes going to blow his stack every time he sees Alec Baldwin on SNL, hes probably headed for a massive coronary when the international press starts smackin him upside the head on a daily basis. Nobody not even your own faithful adherents likes a crybaby POTUS.
Because you acted now, you will also receive the bonus package, which includes forever being the party who won by allowing the Russians to choose your candidate for you something Im sure youll eventually be able to explain to your base voters who HATE commie pinko bastards with every fiber of their being.
What your win doesnt include:
* Respect for a pResident who doesnt deserve any.
* Ways to blame Obama & the Dems for the havoc your boy and your party are about to unleash.
* Industrial-sized shovels to clean up the trail of shit your boy will be leaving behind every time he tweets yet another ludicrous tirade at 3:00 a.m.
* A plausible excuse for having supported this idiot in the first place.
Everyone knows Republicans dont give a crap about the country or its populace. But one would think youd at least be concerned about the GOP brand. The Trump pResidency will be a disaster and even you know it. What you dont seem to realize is that when the ship of state starts taking on water, you'll be going down with it.
rzemanfl
(29,557 posts)Lucinda
(31,170 posts)CaliforniaPeggy
(149,611 posts)GWC58
(2,678 posts)many are either too stupid, or just too pro tRump to get it. Dems will get the blame, unfortunately.
SnowCritter
(810 posts)The Republican base is so brain-washed that all the Republican leadership needs to do is point at the Democrats, accuse them of doing the thing that the Republicans just did, and their base will believe it - despite all evidence to the contrary.
BlueCaliDem
(15,438 posts)most unqualified candidate to ever head for the White House.
Privately, they know they're to blame. And that's our job. Whenever we encounter such a troll on other sites, we simply point out: don't blame me. I voted Democratic Party.
We'll get a lot of angry response and nasty blame-shaming, but stand your ground. Some Trumpites are already calling themselves "independent" (hoping to hide amongst the Bernie Sanders defectors) but if it walks, talks, smells like a Trumpite, they are just that--a Trumpite, and don't let them get away with their idiot responses.
oasis
(49,381 posts)After his four years in office it will be an undeniable fact.
haele
(12,650 posts)GOP politicians aren't billionaires, after all...
The Mercers, the Kochs, the Adelsons - they don't care what happens to the country, they can just move on to better pickings once they've drained everything dry, leaving the petty millionaires in the senate and congress - and all the lobbyists and think tank pundits are going to be stuck with the pieces and going down with the rest of the population.
The Randriod a-holes have their own Galt's Gulch vision and the private get-aways have been bought and compounds are being built. Their vision of America is carelessly disposable, and don't include any citizens that make under a Billion annually (other than human drones if they can't have enough robots installed.)
Haele
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,683 posts)They'll try to blame Obama, but all but the dumbest ones will figure out who it really is that's bending them over and porking them hard. Of course the Dems, or what's left of them, will have to do their best to remind them who's doing them. When that happens I will be happy to crawl out of my shack in the woods or my bomb shelter and holler as loudly as I can, "YOU DUMB BASTARDS, I TOLD YOU SO!"
NanceGreggs
(27,814 posts).. into a corner.
Because they want to reject everything Obama & the Dems have done and do things "Trump's way", every disaster that ensues can't be blamed on the previous administration - which has always been the GOP's strategy.
There is NO WAY you can tell someone that the affordable healthcare coverage they had under Obama was somehow taken away by Obama after Trump took office. It's the same for any cuts to SS or SNAP - even the dumbest Republican will know that what Obama protected was taken away by Republicans.
IOW, "blame the black guy" isn't going to work. And the idiots who voted for Trump are going to realize that immediately.
I don't think "We're the party that left your grandma destitute, took food out of your kids' mouths, and left you with no healthcare coverage!" is going to be a winning political slogan in future.
Stonepounder
(4,033 posts)Remember, according to GOP orthodoxy:
1. There were no terrorist attacks on 'Murican soil under Bush Jr.
2. ISIS was created during Obama's Presidency
3. Under Obama unemployment is UP and so are taxes.
4. Under Obama the size of government grew
5. Obama is coming to take your guns away.
The GOP could have a super-majority in Congress, an 7-2 alt-Right stack on SCOTUS and a GOP President in the White House and have it all for 20 solid and they would STILL be blaming the Democrats for anything that goes wrong, and their base would believe them!!
world wide wally
(21,742 posts)We never (well, rarely) hear the counter arguments. On every issue, you will see 3 GOP surrogates for every 1 defending the Dem perspective. I don't know if that is the Dem's fault or the news channels program that way, but just watch how that happens consistently. (If you can still handle cable news shows). Personally, I quit them.
quakerboy
(13,920 posts)generally won't stand up to say anything even remotely unorthodox or off the meek center right script.
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)to blame Obama. They always find a way to rationalize things being the former administrations fault, unless the previous was GOP.
JawJaw
(722 posts)...because there was no money left after Obama spent it all on immigrants and foreign aid, etc.
That will be the playbook, mark my words.
(c) Nigel Farage, UK Ambassador.
brer cat
(24,562 posts)Mc Mike
(9,114 posts)Guyechka
(25 posts)people should be so embarrassed that they vow never to vote again!
niyad
(113,284 posts)problem is, those 62 million are too stupid to realize they should be embarrassed.
blue neen
(12,319 posts)"Because you acted now, you will also receive the bonus package, which includes forever being the party who won by allowing the Russians to choose your candidate for you something Im sure youll eventually be able to explain to your base voters who HATE commie pinko bastards with every fiber of their being."
Their fearless leader, Mitch "Benedict" McConnell, was complicit in letting the Russians interfere in our election. He chose love of his own power over love of our country.
Protalker
(418 posts)Wife is in the Cabinet. I wonder why Mrs. Comey was overlooked?
kairos12
(12,858 posts)But instead of Obama, they'll blame the boogeyman-of-the-Day based on the failure du jour.
NanceGreggs
(27,814 posts)But they've now rendered it useless. You can't blame the loss of Obamacare on the guy who instituted it in the first place. It's loss will be blamed on the guy who took it away.
There's just no getting around that. I know that the average GOP voter is pretty damned stupid - but even they understand cause-and-effect. How will Republicans explain that? Say that Obama set-up Obamacare to retroactively self-destruct the minute he left office?
The GOP will have a lot of 'splaining to do over the next while, and I don't think "let's blame the black guy" is going to cut it for those who lose what they'd gained when the black guy was in charge.
quakerboy
(13,920 posts)And will.
Since when has obvious fact ever stopped a RW'r from blaming their failures on someone else?
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)Logic does not matter to them.
Shoonra
(521 posts)Remember George W. Bush? Our special needs President. The one who dressed up like a cowboy and a fighter pilot.
He was, from all accounts in 2008, our Worst.President.Ever.
He left the country's finances in a shambles, lied us into an unnecessary invasion of Iraq which somehow fanned the flames of Islamic extremism, sent our under-equipped troops into a no-win war in Afghanistan, couldn't be bothered looking for Osama bin-Laden, couldn't be bothered saving New Orleans, etc. etc. He was so bad that after the 2008 election many of us wondered aloud if there were a way that Obama could be inaugurated sooner than January 20th. Yes, WORST.PRESIDENT.EVER.
Eight years later, we are persuaded to vote for The Donald.
If Dubya couldn't damage the Republican brand enough to keep The Donald from being elected only 8 years later, then the Republican brand is immune to damage.
NanceGreggs
(27,814 posts)... are child's play compared to what Trump has announced he plans to do.
Dubya was incompetent, ignorant, dumb-as-fuck, etc. But he wasn't petty and mean-spirited, and was willing to rely on "the guidance of others". Trump has made it clear that he is going to do everything "his way", and his party is going to have to deal with the fact that they elected someone who even they themselves cannot control.
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)about the death of the GOP for over a decade. This election was going to be the death knell. Habeus corpsus.
aggiesal
(8,914 posts)As long as that exists, then only the Democratic brand will be damaged!
Fast Walker 52
(7,723 posts)Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)This is a dangerous man, he will kick sand into anyone's face, don't trust him and just because he was elected as president does not make him fit to be president.
pbmus
(12,422 posts)[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)My apologies to reptiles.
BumRushDaShow
(128,905 posts)Rushbo the Hutt will set the narrative for the next 4 years with that type of nonsense thanks to his renewed (albeit at a lower cost) contract.
tenorly
(2,037 posts)And the Empire Struck Back.
TheCowsCameHome
(40,168 posts)We'll even throw in a homophobic, hateful bigot at no extra cost - Mike Pence!
NanceGreggs
(27,814 posts)... so true! All you pay for the second asshole is shipping and handling charges - and he comes with a handy-dandy traveling case!
madamesilverspurs
(15,801 posts)NanceGreggs
(27,814 posts)NastyRiffraff
(12,448 posts)Sorry, no refunds.
NanceGreggs
(27,814 posts)... exactly as pictured.
Augiedog
(2,545 posts)NanceGreggs
(27,814 posts)It's another thing the GOP have accomplished this election - making their own supporters the enemy of the MAJORITY of voters.
VOX
(22,976 posts)They really are a cult. If they had any fear about this asshole at all, they wouldn't have voted for him in the first place. These folks are NOT thinking clearly. They LOVE Trump and his crudeness. They themselves say that they don't care if he doesn't build a wall or deport anyone; for his "fan club," the fact that he merely said these horrible things is enough for them.
Look no further than third-world Kansas for an example. That state is one big uneducated, backward, sewage-filled pothole, and yet Kansans keep voting for right-wing Koch-types. They all think they're going to meet Jesus any day now, so they don't give a shit about this planet or its inhabitants.
In short, we are fucked.
Sorry for the gloom, but I just don't see any other avenues right now.
NanceGreggs
(27,814 posts)... until the shit hits home.
I doubt that those who lose the only healthcare coverage they've ever had will be "lovin' Trump" the day they lose it. I don't think those who have to support their elderly parents after their SS checks are whittled down to the bone are going to be singing the praises of Mr. Tangerine Man or his party.
They say all politics are local. Well, there's nothing more "local" than your own household.
quakerboy
(13,920 posts)the TV will tell two more that it was Democrats who made an unsustainable program and raised their taxes, and Trump saved them from even worse by ending a failed program.
Never underestimate the power of people to be fed a line of bologna or to be mad at the wrong people.
whatever is coming will OUR fault.
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)Last edited Wed Dec 21, 2016, 12:09 PM - Edit history (1)
Not faulting you, it is really hard to fathom that much stupid. But if there is one thing truly infinite it is stupidity.
Cosmocat
(14,564 posts)They only get MORE stupid, MORE angry, MORE mean over time ...
See, Donald Trump, POTUS.
Cosmocat
(14,564 posts)the idiots have been voting against their own interests their entire lives, but, sure, the light is going to suddenly flicker on.
You have to understand the problem before you can figure out how to work on it.
Half my posts here the last decade have been going against the "the republican party is in its death throws fantasy.
My young adult years, in the 90s I was flabbergasted how these idiots believes "conservative" bulshit. Over the course a quarter century I have resigned myself to the fact that they are lost because they actually got more deluded, angrier and meaner with each day.
I know these people, and they could give a fuck about their own interests. Literally. They only give a fuck that a man might have sex with another man, that a women might have sex with a man other than them. That "they" might be getting social assistance.
They will give up their own benefits every day of the week if it means "they" are somehow hurt.
And, in case you haven't been paying attention, whatever disaster the Rs create is OUR fault.
I post on a sports board, and an OT topic on came up about the best Xmas songs ever, and it ended up with the usual idiots going off all unhinged over the "political left."
Missn-Hitch
(1,383 posts)I share your gloom but we must fight fascists.
Have a great holiday season anyway!
I don't know if you saw this Onion post, but since you mention KS.
Christ Does Soft Return To Gauge Interest http://www.theonion.com/article/christ-does-soft-return-gauge-interest-52884
[img][/img]
treestar
(82,383 posts)nm
NastyRiffraff
(12,448 posts)which of course he will. What he's promised these idiots is impossible. And when they actually lose what they've had they'll be howling for blood. Most people react to the personal, not to policy, particularly uninformed Trump voters, and they're all uniformed.
Sure, many of them will try to blame Obama, or Hillary Clinton, or the ever-popular Nancy Pelosi, but they'll look like the idiots they are. As for the GOP "leadership," they're already backing slowly away in horror,with the usual exceptions (Gingrich, Giuliani, etc)
bpositive
(423 posts)My instinct tells me that his supporters will not turn on him and their wil be so many fake stories out there that they will continue to blame democrats.
I was talking to a trump supporter recently and he is a smart guy, works in IT management for an insurance company, and he felt that things were better under Geaorge W versus Obama.
I shit you not- I was stunned. You really can't fix stupid.
Master_Monstruwacan
(71 posts)They loves them some Vlad, now. His approval rating is waaaaay up with GOPers these days!
tenorly
(2,037 posts)And even then, they'll only learn for a month or two - and probably only one in four of them.
Missn-Hitch
(1,383 posts)tenorly
(2,037 posts)A kind of Oliver Twisted, actually hoping to be mistreated by the Mr. Bumbles of the world.
The problem is, we're in the same boat with these sick fools. Such is life, I guess.
Missn-Hitch
(1,383 posts)If they could find a way to have an economy that is only beneficial to white, straight, Christian (some Jewish) folks, they would pursue it.
Sick fools indeed. Rest assured, they call us the same thing.
Have a great holiday season anyway! F**k 'em. Cheers.
apcalc
(4,465 posts)Best_man23
(4,898 posts)You Bought the Con, YOU.OWN.IT
When he tried to bring up the talking points, my only response was: "A ty govorish' po russki (do you speak Russian?). I then told him he may want to start learning for when tRump delivers us unto Putin.
mreilly
(2,120 posts)They won't. Period. No matter what happens from here on out, it's all Obama's fault and they will keep on singing #EverythingisAwesome.
C'mon folks - Trump supporters are people who RACED out to vote for GWB twice. And they mindlessly RACED out to vote for Trump.
Why do you try to make it so complex? These are idiots and assholes. if these people had the ability to wake up and realize they fucked themselves by voting for the wrong guy they wouldn't do it over and over.
Please stop worrying about what Trump supporters think. They don't.
Please stop urging Trump supporters to own their colossal fuckup. They won't.
Please stop telling Trump supporters everything forward is now on him. They will continue to shit themselves and cry about OBama. That is literally ALL THEY DO: CRY.
Focus on reaching non-Trump supporters. In other words, thinking, reasoning, rational human beings, other than the pure excrement that voted for this asshole.
Stop engaging them. Stop talking to them. Stop trying to reach them. They're not listening. They're not thinking. THEY DON'T CARE.
Work with the people you can work with.
And FUCK Trump supporters. Any suffering they endure as a result of their choice is on them, and I have zero sympathy.
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)jaxind
(1,074 posts)Nance Greggs' last statement was not perfect...it's NOT "YOU'LL be going down with it." Unfortunately, it's "WE"LL be going down with it!"
Initech
(100,068 posts)And with that, possible sanctions from countries we've previously considered allies, like Germany! Bravo, well done!
ladym55
(2,577 posts)I am collecting names for the Trumpster fire (cuz I sure won't call him President), and this a good one!! Thanks
I am trying to laugh as much as possible to keep myself sane because I'm smart enough to realize that Cheetolini's stupid decisions and policies will affect me and mine just as much as they affect the dopes who voted for him.
IrishEyes
(3,275 posts)I can't call him president. It makes me sick.
3catwoman3
(23,975 posts)...DFT - for Donald Fuckiing Trump. I loathe this creep.
NanceGreggs
(27,814 posts)... for that brilliant term. But alas, I can't.
I saw it used in several FB posts - I have no idea who originated the phrase. And if I ever find out who it was, I will kneel before their greatness!
Joe Turner
(930 posts)made a difference in the last election.
IrishEyes
(3,275 posts)Many of you can look forward to an early retirement. By the midterm elections, people will be so angry and sick of all of the evil, stupid, horrible things that Trump's administration has done. Many people running for the house, senate and governor who have an R next to their name will face a tough re-election. Those of you who are not up for re-election in 2018 will have to deal with the election of 2020. Even if you disavow Trump, disagree with him or change your party to independent, the putrid stink of Trump will be on you even after you retire and for the rest of your lives. You will be lumped in with Trump in people's minds. It won't take very long for many people to turn on Trump once he does not make things better and instead makes things much worse. Even when he quits or becomes impeached, you will be blamed. Many voters will want to clean house of anything related to Trump.
rwsanders
(2,598 posts)volstork
(5,400 posts)in the body politic of the US for the last 40 years. The only way to cure an abscess is to lance it. Trump may be the final geyser of foul pus that sets this country free from the scourge of neoliberalism, racism, misogyny, and xenophobia that has held it back from attaining what the Founders intended.
world wide wally
(21,742 posts)They wanted it that way and never pass up a chance to repeat it. Just listen to their headmaster.
Turbineguy
(37,324 posts)Now they can finally screw things up without some pesky Democratic President vetoing their every fuckup and keeping them from having to account.
yortsed snacilbuper
(7,939 posts)the rats will jump overboard.
C_U_L8R
(45,001 posts)They won ugly.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)eulogizing the GOP for over a decade, yet they still survive. Call me when you smell a rotting corpse.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)ffr
(22,669 posts)Bookmarked.
Encore!
sab390
(183 posts)Three counties gave him the college. I'm from Waukesha, emphasis on from I left when Dryphes was elected, but we can fight county to county like they did in 2010. We just needed three. No, we'll never win the idiot counties but targeted ones we could. Rember Galaxy Quest, never give up, never surrender.
HassleCat
(6,409 posts)Has become a booby prize.
Puzzler
(2,505 posts)... assuming there's anyone around.
-P
DFW
(54,370 posts)Never underestimate the power of their media.
In the DDR, the former East Germany, in those parts where the people had access to West German TV, which was most of it, many people maintained a healthy skepticism about anything the Ulbricht/Honcecker regime told them. The only part of the DDR where the people swallowed the party line hook, line and sinker was a small corner of Saxony near the Czech border where there was no reception of West German TV. In that part, the people tended to be loyal Party robots, thinking they were living in a socialist paradise, threatened only by the evil, horrible West, and protected from same by their heroic Party and their glorious Russian Allies.
The official East German SED (Socialist Unity Party) line was that they has successfully eliminated all vestiges of Nazism from their part of Germany, and there were no Nazis left, only good Socialists. Well, after the wall fell, guess where the biggest resurgence of Neo-Nazis came from? Right--the East, where their media hadn't told them the truth, only suppressed it.
In the USA, while no one is forced to watch Fox Noise, parts of the country use it or National Hate Radio as their only source of information, and those people will believe Trump is the greatest ship captain to sail the seas, even after he has steered the Titanic straight into the iceberg, and the icy waters are freezing the life out of them.
brooklynboy49
(287 posts)They control both houses of Congress and the White House and we'll have as much as a 7-2 conservative Supreme Court for the next 30 years.
They're gonna dismantle the safety net and seriously undermine women's reproductive rights, in addition to destroying the environment and jeopardizing our alliances around the world.
I'd say they're sitting in the catbird seat and we are royally screwed.
lamp_shade
(14,828 posts)Your posts always help me start the day out on the right foot.
JohnnyA
(6 posts)As the NYT points out:
"But will Mr. Trump suffer repercussions if the Republican Congress plows ahead? ... Democrats currently have little organized presence outside urban areas. Small cities and rural areas are overwhelmingly represented in Congress and state capitols by Republicans, who will do all they can to displace blame.... The party will have to beef up state committees and place a priority on activating volunteer supporters everywhere getting people to write messages to local newspapers and social media sites, and reach out to hospitals, health care providers and nonprofits to beat the drums about losses the Republicans are inflicting.... they must be actively involved in communities damaged by Mr. Trumps false campaign promises." Theda Skocpol, NYT, Dec. 21, 2016
In other words, it's not just going to happen while we sit back and spectate. It's going to take grass-roots on-the-ground organizing at the local level on our parts. Something we are not very good at doing.
ismnotwasm
(41,976 posts)inwiththenew
(972 posts)But the base is eating this up. They are collectively the group that watches NASCAR races for the wrecks. They view Trump as a wrecking ball that is going to destroy everything Obama has done. A man who is going to cut out all politeness and "tell it like it is".
When that doesn't work out they will blame someone else for the failings.
N_E_1 for Tennis
(9,721 posts)TexasBushwhacker
(20,185 posts)Jacob Boehme
(789 posts)Because that's what the Sniffer-elect really knows all about.
malthaussen
(17,193 posts)2naSalit
(86,579 posts)is so wrong... these people are like dogs that foul their own beds.
calimary
(81,238 posts)He's ALL YOURS, you assholes! There's nothing you can blame on Democrats from here on. Until perhaps 2018 comes, and that's a midterm-election year, and the party in power tends not to do well. Hope the Dems get their shit together. This is the specific cycle in which one of the two houses of Congress can and often does flip. The first Congressional election cycle AFTER the big-time Presidential election that brought a radical change of leadership two years earlier is often a quickie referendum on "what we think of the new guy." If Dems get a few things right and are shrewd enough to exploit a few things, we could flip the Senate. We're closer now, as of last month, than we were in October.
Sometimes, BOTH Houses get flipped. Which would be sweet, and sweet justice.
Let's hope the new DNC chair is a Fighter. A ruthless fighter. Because we need somebody who won't just roll over and go back to sleep, the way it appears Donna Brazile has. She hasn't stuck her neck out at all. There seems to be nobody home in the control room.
She seems to be serving almost like those seat-fillers at the Oscars do. When some VIP gets up out of his/seat in the audience to go have a smoke or get a drink or go to the bathroom or call home and check on the kids, somebody steps over and fills the seat. There are lots of audience shots during the Oscar telecast, and nobody wants to see an empty seat. So there are people who go to the Oscars all dressed up and elegant, specifically to fill a temporarily vacated celebrity seat. So, it seems, goes Donna Brazile. She's certainly dressed the part. But all she does is step in and sit there. I haven't received a single email from her or in her orbit asking for donations. I've heard from everybody
And it's a damn shame! So what if she's the interim and doesn't expect to be continued. Why not put out for the party ANYWAY? Give it a good hand-off to whoever the new DNC chair will be. As is now, the look and spin on the Democratic Party is one of "laid down and died." They could have sent SOMEBODY to Louisiana! Never mind that it seemed almost a certain loss. Never mind! We needed to show up! ANYWAY! We needed to put up a fight! Contest the damn Senate seat, even if everybody thought we'd lose. Everybody thought trump would lose, too! Doesn't matter! We needed to show Democrats there that we care! And that it's worth fighting for. That THEY'RE worth fighting for!
Gothmog
(145,176 posts)hotrod0808
(323 posts)The have their guns, their Jesus, and hope to drive away the brown people to keep them going. Of course, those things are all that they will have ever. There just ins't much hope for them coming around to rational thought when they believe that Earth is 6,000 years old and that President Obama is from Kenya.
Trumplethinskin
(18 posts)Response to NanceGreggs (Original post)
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