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(13,916 posts)
Fri Dec 30, 2016, 01:54 PM Dec 2016

Is this the beginning of the disintegration of nation states?

In fifty or a hundred years will we find that the official structures that organize our world are corporations, not countries? Is the buddy, buddy relationship of Trump and Putin a harbinger of a really fundamental shift in the way life on earth is organized?

Never mind about the sub-rosa structures of wealthy people and corporations. I'm talking about official changes.

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Is this the beginning of the disintegration of nation states? (Original Post) LAS14 Dec 2016 OP
Here's a plot for a novel if anyone is interested. world wide wally Dec 2016 #1
Read "A Theory of Global Capitalism" cloudbase Dec 2016 #2
A fiction novel on this subject is 'Jennifer Government' Amishman Dec 2016 #4
Brilliant novel. Aristus Dec 2016 #5
No, that started a couple of generations ago in some places Igel Dec 2016 #3
WW II ended the nation state FarCenter Dec 2016 #6
further thoughts from a different crowd? LAS14 Dec 2016 #7

world wide wally

(21,764 posts)
1. Here's a plot for a novel if anyone is interested.
Fri Dec 30, 2016, 02:06 PM
Dec 2016

Trump and Putin form an alliance to form the most fearsome military force ever assembled on Earth. They conquer the planet after pounding China into submission with nuclear weapons.
The the real power struggle begins when Pootie accomplishes his tells Trump, "you're fired"!
This is a major blow to Trumps ego, so he launches an all out Twitter assault in retaliation.
Sound exciting?
Stay tuned for our next episode!


(5,568 posts)
2. Read "A Theory of Global Capitalism"
Fri Dec 30, 2016, 02:21 PM
Dec 2016

by Robinson. He addresses this issue in some depth.

It's not long, but it's also not the easiest read. Well worth one's time, though.


(5,599 posts)
4. A fiction novel on this subject is 'Jennifer Government'
Fri Dec 30, 2016, 03:29 PM
Dec 2016

Fun read, but there are also some troubleshooting and thought provoking concepts embedded in the future in which the story takes place.


(67,048 posts)
5. Brilliant novel.
Fri Dec 30, 2016, 03:32 PM
Dec 2016

I had the pleasure of meeting Max Barry at a book-signing.

George Clooney and Matt Damon optioned Jennifer Government for the movies a number of years ago, but couldn't make a go of it. I hope someone does soon. It would make an incredible film.


(35,705 posts)
3. No, that started a couple of generations ago in some places
Fri Dec 30, 2016, 02:39 PM
Dec 2016

You see it nicely in Catalonia, where what was built is coming unstuck.

In some places the process never fully took hold. Jugoslavija is a good example.

Nigeria's still building a nation state. They can't the way the French did back in the 1800s by all but disposing of Occitan and Bretagne and the various patois.

Russia is still building a nation state. They've redefined "Russian" along the lines of how we originally defined American or "Latino" (before some post-truth advocates a few decades ago decided that since race matters, Latino had to be a race, and helped enable separatist movements under other names).



(19,429 posts)
6. WW II ended the nation state
Fri Dec 30, 2016, 04:59 PM
Dec 2016

The Westphalian nation state was a construct for world order that resolved the international ambitions of Christian sects during the Reformation and the Thirty Years War by constructing geographic territories in which the prince was supreme over religion and could dictate the religious and other social attitudes within his realm. During this period, religion was the primary transnational cause, and it was effectively neutered by the nobility.

During the enlightenment, other philosophies and ideologies began to emerge which also took on a transnational character. The French Revolution and Napoleonic Wars were the first of these new non-religious crusades. The Congress of Vienna and the restoration of monarchies delayed this impulse, but ideologies continued to grow during the 19th century. Finally, WWI and II swept away the crowned heads of Europe.

With the end of the nobility and the monarchs "ownership" of all the lands of the nation, came the end of the nation state. Since WW II geographic borders no longer have the inviolability that they once had, and major powers, such as the US and USSR have violated them whenever it seemed useful.

In the emerging multipolar world, nation states will become less and less important, and transnational religious and ideological movements will continue to grow in influence and power. Wars will be fought without front lines between contending forces, and expect to see the tactics of irregular warfare and terrorism developed further.

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