Arkansas just passed a law that will let a rapist sue his victim for having an abortion.

[kpete]

Link to tweet

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2017/02/02/new-law-lets-dads-veto-abortions.html

[Chasstev365]

1. And the Crazy Train Just Picked Up Speed

[no_hypocrisy]

2. A pregnancy resulting from a rape should be considered

abandoned property.

[irisblue]

10. proof of a criminal assualt & what are penalities for rape there? nt

[BSdetect]

3. Its beyond insanity that these aholes exist on our planet

[BlancheSplanchnik]

4. This is an attack on human rights! Women are HUMANS every bit as much as refugees.

Come on, Americans... when are you gonna care about it?
Americans certainly cared when an anti-gay pizza shop refused a gay customer order. And an anti-gay wedding cake.
Americans cared when a Muslim kid was arrested for a science project.
Americans care that many families are being ripped apart by dump's Muslim ban....

Why are human rights violations against women and girls so hard to care about?

[niyad]

15. come on--you actually think women are HUMAN?????

[Bernardo de La Paz]

5. Pro-life

[ismnotwasm]

16. Stealing

[BlancheSplanchnik]

19. Love the fetus, attack the woman. n/t

[arithia]

6. aaand back to "women are property" _

Nolite te bastardes carborundorum! (That shit can't hit Hulu soon enough, imo)

[Solly Mack]

7. The enemies of women are many.

[dalton99a]

8. Our current reality is worse than the Onion

[Glassunion]

17. By far. At least the Onion is funny.

[0rganism]

9. so the handmaid's tale takes another step closer to reality...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Handmaid%27s_Tale

[TheBlackAdder]

11. Sharia Law my ass! We've got the American Taliban entering the land of incest and gene pooling.

[logosoco]

12. I can't even believe I am reading that in the year 2017.

This seems more like terrorism to me than what the right wing is so paranoid about. And it is happening right here, to American citizens!!

[niyad]

13. and the war on women has just escalated.

[niyad]

14. please cross post in WRAI and pro-choice.

[okieinpain]

18. dems need to get out of the abortion discussion

i say that because women vote for this people even after they have enacted these laws same thing for gun laws.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

20. We need to focus on the harm to women resulting from anti-health-care laws.

Pics of female victims.

Sometimes, anti-abortion ppl don't even think a few steps out. I remember a chat with a NURSE! For godssake! who hadn't thought of real-life complications. Rape, incest, refusal of abortion care to women whose pregnancy threatens their life.......

Seems that often, they've never taken the simple step of applying their beloved Rules to real life situations.

Yet, personal stories strongly impact ppl's opinions, especially ppl uninterested in more rigorous reading.
If they read anti-abortion rhetoric, they've surely come across plenty of stories of regret and catastrophe after legal, safe abortion, usually told in first-person.

Unfortunately, these ppl never come across real stories of the blessing of safe abortion care, nor are they ever presented with the real consequences of blackmarket abortion, imprisonment for miscarriage, or realities of rape or incest and resultant pregnancy.

I think we should get as horrifically graphic as they do.


Anyway....my most successful awareness raising has always come through calm (as calm as I can manage), non-accusatory tones in one-to-one conversation.

[smirkymonkey]

28. This just makes me sick to my stomach.

This has nothing to do with being pro-life and everything to do with being anti-women. It is meant as a punishment. They need to be stopped. Can't the ACLU bring a lawsuit against them? This is absolutely inhumane and hateful!

[okieinpain]

30. i thought the dems had already tried that

the abortion issue to me seems to be something people just drown out and not pay any attention to unless they need the service. which just goes to show how low abortions are in this country.

I just get tired of dems defending the law and not gettting any benefits from it. women are voting for repubs directly and indirectly by not voting. i think dems should support it, put it on the platform but basically not make it a daily issue.

[JI7]

39. it's MEN and specifically white men that vote for this shit

[TNNurse]

21. Well until this is reversed,

women should get the hell out of Arkansas.

I mean it, take your daughters, sisters, mothers, friends, strangers and leave the state.

Are there any women in the government there?

[Sunny05]

22. 1. I agree

Last edited Fri Feb 3, 2017, 07:46 PM - Edit history (1)

this move by rapert is deplorable.

2. there are women in gov in Ark

3. This is fourth or fifth stereotype of Ark have read on DU just today. Have no problem w/ comments about rapert and the conservatives who push for this b.s. It's the stereotypes that hurt ppl, includng progressives who live there, including minorities who live there.

4. Have Read so much from DUers that allows for other southern members to be from southern states w/o feeling ostracized, with an understanding that DU has members from those states but that those members are progressives, different from the likes of rapert, different from the conservatives in their states. But there is apparently little room for DU's Arkansans that way.

Don't have time to check typos. Am on mobile, make more errors on little keyboards. have f**kng doctorate from university in the northeast. So excuse typos. And thx for nothing to all the judgmental arrogant a$$holes who cant see individuals. When you do this, you actually work against the progressives, women, and minorities you pretend to care about -- by alienating us and also by driving more/other people to republicans. If you don't understand that statement, let me know. I can explain more.

In the meantime, as you wallow around in your smugness, just remember: Arkansas used to be blue. And the U.S. used to have a great president.

ps. One of our women lawmakers heads the Black Legislative Caucus. More ppl like her get gerry-mandered out.
pps US has trump in WH. How about treating all Americans as if trump supporters?

[Hekate]

58. You're doing great with your replies, Sunny05

[Sunny05]

59. thx :-) nt

[Sunny05]

36. This link

is for a post addressed to someone who called any women living in Arkansas crazy. But it helps answer what you have raised as well.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=8592218

I do agree the law is horrifying and am so hoping for court case to overturn -- my only hope.

The state used to be blue; but "tide" changes plus gerry-mandering and vote suppression have had horrifying effects on who does get elected in this and other states -- just as it has for the nation.

Also, regarding your simplistic instruction to move, maybe some can move, maybe some cannot. The women in the links (see post/reply link above) by the way, are examples of people who help those who would not be in a position to move. They are also examples of Arkansans who are, along with all Arkansans, being referred to in several DU posts as if they are on another planet full of like-minded (to rapert and his cronies), stupid, women-hating monsters. Take a look at the people you find in those links. I wish I could introduce them personally. But read about them, at least.

Past that, I'll just say I wish some of us DUers weren't treated like aliens; even if that's not what some of you mean to do, that is the effect stereotypng has -- one of the effects.

And again, yes, the law is horrifying, and even many "crazy" people in Arkansas whom you look down your nose at know that and are absolutely mortified by it.

[TNNurse]

37. Well, I am sorry that you did not take my post as intended.

No one should believe that my suggestion was literal. It was meant to get attention.

I am not simplistic and do not believe that they can leave. I just want them to pay attention, to fight back.

You do not know me and I am certainly not looking down on anyone who is not responsible for the law. I am well aware that most of them are victims of ignorant politicians. You know sort of like most of the country are victims of the current administration in DC.

[Sunny05]

40. Your last statement

I can agree with. Indeed, I have made the same point.

But when other progressives make thoughtless generalizations like that, it has ramifications. On this forum, those ramifications are probably small (as long as just DUers read them). But it is sad, b/c those of us in these red states feel cut-off from much of the political establishment, anyway. And then we can't even comfortably turn to a Democratic forum, either.

But in general, these stereotypes perpetuate problems for women, minorities, and the "have-nots in society. Because the rapert-and-cronies and the wealthy charter school supporters in these states like Arkansas aren't going to help communities in greater economic distress. And then the rest of the nation -- including potential employers (in the form of businesses locating a unit or plant somewhere) will become more likely to avoid the area. It's bad enough that rapert contributes to this; it is unconscionable for other progressives to do so.

I know from experience that people getting stereotyped for their state can have a harder time getting a job or getting the pay level they deserve -- even if they are applying with [supposedly] progressive people or in supposedly progressive geographic areas.

Really, check out the links in that post. Those people are Arkansans, too. They matter. They count. They are among the ones fighting back.

[manicraven]

48. Or deny all men sex until this gets reverse. Our bodies are not theirs to do with what they will.

My body, my say.

[MrScorpio]

23. The party of rape strikes again!

GOPers sure love their rape fetuses.

[Sunny05]

25. At least this post

Last edited Fri Feb 3, 2017, 07:22 PM - Edit history (1)

puts blame where it belongs. And yes, this move on part of rapert and repubs is deplorable.

[Initech]

24. And Family Values hypocrite Robert Bentley gets to sign it into law. Fuck.

[CrispyQ]

26. Forcing women to be servants of the state.

Why don't the pro-choice groups focus on this argument more?

2010
Forced Labor, Revisited: The Thirteenth
Amendment and Abortion
Andrew Koppelman
Northwestern University School of Law

http://scholarlycommons.law.northwestern.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1031&context=facultyworkingpapers

snip...

I. The basic argument The Thirteenth Amendment reads as follows:

1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

2. Congress shall have the power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

My claim is that the amendment is violated by laws that prohibit abortion. When women are compelled to carry and bear children, they are subjected to "involuntary servitude" in violation of the amendment. Abortion prohibitions violate the Amendment's guarantee of personal liberty, because forced pregnancy and childbirth, by compelling the woman to serve the fetus, creates "that control by which the personal service of one man [sic] is disposed of or coerced for another's benefit which is the essence of involuntary servitude."6

Such laws violate the amendment's guarantee of equality, because forcing women to be mothers makes them into a servant caste, a group which, by virtue of a status of birth, is held subject to a special duty to serve others and not themselves.

This argument makes available two responses to the standard defense of such prohibitions, the claim that the fetus is a person. The first is that even if this is so, its right to the continued aid of the woman does not follow. As Judith Jarvis Thomson observes, "having a right to life does not guarantee having either a right to be given the use of or a right to be allowed continued use of another person's body -- even if one needs it for life itself."7 Giving fetuses a legal right to the continued use of their mothers' bodies would be precisely what the Thirteenth Amendment forbids. The second response is that since abortion prohibitions infringe on the fundamental right to be free of involuntary servitude, the burden is on the state to show that the violation of this right is justified. Since the thesis that the fetus is, or should at least be considered, a person seems impossible to prove (or to refute), this is a burden that the state cannot carry. If we are not certain that the fetus is a person, then the mere possibility that it might be is not enough to justify violating women's Thirteenth Amendment rights by forcing them to be mothers.

[lark]

27. Any woman who lives in AR is crazy!

This should go to the SCOTUS ASAP, before drumpfs Nazi can get on board.

[Sunny05]

31. Anyone who lives in the U.S. is crazy!

drumf is already in control.

Your insult to women in Arkansas applies to all those trying to work against rapert and other crazies, who are trying to help low-income communitues, homeless, animal shelters, children with special needs. And some are not in a position to just move suddenly.

[Sunny05]

34. Some of us

were here back when it was blue. Wallow in your smugness all you want, but your state could turn one day too. Your nation already has.

Insult rapert and his supporters all you want. But don't hurl insults at the people (women) you pretend to care about.

There are a number of DUers who are from and/or live in Arkansas. We are not aliens in a separate universe from this forum.

[Sunny05]

35. Crazy people

Here are links to people you call crazy.

First is a state legislator who is fighting against wealthy charter school supporters who are trying to close some public schools in predominantly AA areas. She also was a delegate to DNC convention this past summer. She has long history of fighting for "have-nots":

http://www.arkleg.state.ar.us/assembly/2013/2013R/Pages/MemberProfile.aspx?member=elliott


Here is a state rep who represents an area that was hit harder by recession than most others in nation. She fights for women, minorities, and low income all the time:
http://www.arkansashouse.org/district/17

And another "crazy" by your standards -- someone trying to help the disadvantaged and maltreated, including "have-nots" of society and lgbtq. She also was a DNC delegate this past summer:
https://www.littlerock.gov/board-of-directors/meet-your-board-members/kathy-webb/

And another of your "crazies":
http://www.arkleg.state.ar.us/assembly/2011/2011R/Pages/MemberProfile.aspx?member=S.%20Flowers

Another:
http://www.cityofpinebluff.com/pbmayor/

And ... you guessed it ...
http://www.acluarkansas.org/about


Quite a few crazies plus a few men here:
http://ourhouseshelter.org/staff/

I could go on.

[jmg257]

32. Yeesh what a f'd up law...and already 6 states have similar laws.

Ugh.

[Sunny05]

33. Agreed.

And this reply is a much better way to address the problem. Yes, it is a horrifying bill. rapert is a nutcase, and a heartless one at that.

[mdbl]

38. I guess the Arkansas legislature is a bunch of morons who haven't a clue

about anything decent.

[Sunny05]

41. Unfortunately, too many

are. But no, not all. Please understand ... in the Arkansas legislature, not only are there too many repubs, but also the repubs changed rules on committee make-up --different from U.S. senate rule changes but same bigger goal. So, they manipulated power structure in their favor even more so than their numbers did -- and their numbers were bad enough. It is awful. But I will not let you say they are all morons.
Here are examples why:

Fighting against wealthy supporters trying to close public schools in predominately AA areas. Has always fought for women, children, minorities, have-nots:
http://www.arkleg.state.ar.us/assembly/2013/2013R/Pages/MemberProfile.aspx?member=elliott

Represents district with more economic distress than others -- hit harder by recession than rest of nation on average. District happens to be 60 to 70% AA. Fighting for fairness in education and economic development opportunities among other things.
http://www.arkansashouse.org/district/17

Here's another who fights for the have-nots of society:
http://www.arkleg.state.ar.us/assembly/2011/2011R/Pages/MemberProfile.aspx?member=S.%20Flowers

There are more examples. But look at these people, read about them, and then come back and call them morons.

[mdbl]

45. Sorry, let me clarify

Most of them are morons.

[Sunny05]

60. ty

know it sounds small to others, but few reasons important.

[CousinIT]

42. "A New Law Lets DADS Veto Abortions"

DADS?!

They're not DADS. They're RAPISTS.

This is sexual and reproductive SLAVERY plain and simple: https://www.thenation.com/article/reproductive-rights-and-long-hand-slave-breeding/

[Sunny05]

43. The law is indeed crazy and unconscionable.

Biggest hope right now is for court strike-down. I mean, that's got to happen. Just hope there is way for it to be struck down before someone suffers. I don't know entirely how all the requirements for filing a suit work, though.

[Mc Mike]

44. Mentally diseased and evil repuglinazi party.

Instant karma should get them and any such litigious rapist.

[Dustlawyer]

46. Good luck getting a rapist to come forward to do this, lawyer to take the case, and

a jury willing to find in favor of a rapist/incestuous family member! While this all could happen, it is not very likely!

Doesn't change how jacked up this all is.

[Hekate]

57. A rapist who is already in the justice system would have no compunction...

....about tossing this into the works, would he? As for an incestuous family member, if not outed (and they usually are not) all he has to do is play the moralistic daddy forbidding his daughter from getting an abortion.

[keithbvadu2]

47. Why do republicans love rapists and sexual predators?

Legitimate rape

Dennis Hastert raped young boys and still got letters of support from his fellow republicans.

Sexual predator Trump accused of raping a 13 year old.

[McCamy Taylor]

49. Umm.. this is a plaintif's attorney's idea, right? Couples can conspire to have the mother

get an abortion and then the husband files suit against the abortion provider. Rinse and repeat. Couples could do this over and over again and make a ton of money. Did anyone in Arkansas think about this?

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

53. Except the next law will be to imprison the woman. So, nefarious plan foiled.

But your concern is duly noted.

[SunSeeker]

50. K & R for exposure of evil. nt

[50 Shades Of Blue]

51. No words!

[Lotusflower70]

52. Good grief

This is absolutely disgusting. Revictimize the victim.

[Behind the Aegis]

54. What fucking century is this?!

More people have to realize women are HUMANS! They deserve rights and that includes control over their own fucking bodies! They don't need daddy or some random POS to tell them what to do with their body!

Don't like abortion and you're a woman? Don't fucking have one! Don't like abortion and you're male? Who the fuck cares what you want, it ain't YOUR body! Better yet, keep your cock in your pants and you'll never have to worry about it!

[Freddie]

55. "Husband's permission" was thrown out with Casey in 1992

As odious as the rest of the provisions that Casey got past SCOTUS - waiting periods, parental notification- there was at least one that was struck down. The original law actually required a married woman to get her husband's written consent! Being from PA I followed this at the time thinking "what century is this??" 25 years ago.

So what will really happen is Arkansas will spend millions on lawyer fees and lose in the Supreme Court (even if Gorsuch gets in, Casey is settled law) if it gets that far.
Imagine if they could actually be "pro-life" and use that $$ to care for babies in need. Right.

[mountain grammy]

56. Beyond belief!

[Sunny05]

61. Contact info to one of the crazies ...

http://www.bluehogreport.com/2017/02/06/rapert-attacks-twitter-user-after-blocking-him-so-lets-contact-rapert-to-discuss/

Keep going down in the linked post, and you'll fnd rapert's contact info.

Fwiw, some legislators (tho too few, regrettably) are good people and also progressive. So pls jst don't blast them all. Also, DU has members from Arkanssas, so the morons/average Arkansan/comb-over-state comments (here and other posts) are disappointing. Not that that is your doing. But have to mention while on topic.