Hand counts and a 30 day review, otherwise we're fucked as a nation.

[uponit7771]

Please don't tell me the country that put a man on the moon way before I was born ... like long time ago and shit... can't pull off a manual hand of a vote and a review in less than 30 days.


Russia hacking our elections ... AT THE STATE AND LOCAL ELECTION BOARD LEVEL AS THE INTEL REPORT OUTLINES .... and Benedict Donald and his Band Of Bigots conceding ANYTHING to the Russians = we can't trust any of the machines what so ever...


Your thoughts?


Thx in advance

[CanonRay]

1. If we cannot count votes correctly, we are not a democratic republic any longer

it is that simple.

[uponit7771]

4. There it is !!! That's one of the root factors of any democracy

[CanonRay]

7. An uncertain count makes our elections meaningless.

[randome]

2. Sorry, but trying to hand count more than 130 million votes would leave us less certain, not more.

It sounds cool when it's smaller countries doing this without the precinct-by-precinct and state-by-state parsing we do, but it doesn't work well for this country.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Meredith McIver approves of this post.[/center][/font][hr]

[uponit7771]

8. How does that leave us less certain? thx in advance. It would take longer for results, so what?

[randome]

19. There comes a point where human efficiency loses out with big numbers like this.

It's why we have machines that do our counting for us. They're more accurate.

In addition, it's easier -not harder- to hide physical ballots, throw them away, whatever. Who's to know that they're missing? Oh, wait, we'd rely on a machine to tell us that, wouldn't we?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Meredith McIver approves of this post.[/center][/font][hr]

[CanonRay]

10. If we take a week to count, instead of expecting a result minutes after the polls close?

Why wouldn't we be more than reasonably confident of the result?

[uponit7771]

12. +1

[CanonRay]

14. Our biggest problem is

half the country doesn't WANT the votes counted correctly. That would be the Republican voters. They just want to win. Legitimately or not.

[uponit7771]

20. Yes, for the last 15 years KGOP has been foiling any attempts at free and fair elections to the

...degree of making shit up.

I'm thinking a campaign of reverse pysch on their asses would do some damage to that cause; go out to the "rural" areas and scream bloody murder that the liberals are trying to hack the election and to make laws for hand counts etc.

Bet that would get us somewhere

[LaydeeBug]

28. this. We might even need to hack the hackers.

But they say the best hacker on earth is the Russian guy.

[uponit7771]

29. We got the best hackers, BELIEVE ME... I've ... BELIEVE ME we just don't have the ...

... mindset of what to protect here because we have so much of it.

Few of the high level IT guys in the US doing security are predators... you might be right.... we might need some of the Russian bastards to white test our systems if even by accident.

I would put GOOD money on it that the state and local hacks were back doored from inside info not something someone figured out from tunneling or sniffing or some shit like that.

Like the DNC DB being left open, that COULD'VE been a canary test but then we find out it was access level information being handed out!!

The FEC registered parties need to be made part of voting infrascture to get the NSA level protection...

They weren't this go around which is maddening in and of itself cause look what happneed

[LaydeeBug]

30. absolutely...and only about 10-15% in the Bible Belt by some Trump Chump believing HRC

belongs in jail, so....

[Blanks]

3. Early voting is the answer...

There's no need, or reason, for it to be a surprise. We should be able to figure out which way it is going weeks before the election. Then on the last day (election day) people can rally and vote if it is not going the way they want it to.

If early voting was the norm, some of the people protesting could have gotten out and voted instead of marching now. I expect a number of them didn't vote.

[randome]

5. What you describe might more accurately be termed 'extended voting' instead of 'early voting'.

And not keeping the results secret? Hm. That would work against us, as well. Not sure how I'd feel about that. Although in concept, I'd agree to put the truth out and let the chips fall where they may.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Meredith McIver approves of this post.[/center][/font][hr]

[uponit7771]

13. We can also do two confirmation exit polling ... that would take longer but fuck it...

... better than no democracy at all.

[Blanks]

21. The time to verify the results...

Is before Election Day. If they are reporting results that do not seem consistent with what is going on around you, there should be some method in place to question the results before they are final.

[uponit7771]

25. +1 we should at LEAST be able to confirm who can vote. The vote might not have been hacked but the..

.... ability to vote sure could have.

[Jim Beard]

31. We can have early thumb inking, sorry, I had to! :)

[HoneyBadger]

6. Online voting with a smartphone with multi factor authentication

And immediate (15 second) confirmation via email would solve the problem of fraud

Hand counting paper? We are in the 21st century.....

[uponit7771]

9. They hacked the state and local election boards, the tabulation is going to be hacked too

...

Its the tabulation of the votes that the state and local election hacking leave open...

I trust 3 people looking at the votes (one dem, one con... one indi) than I trust the machines now...

If there's another way for the tabulation hacking to be countered I'm all ears

[HoneyBadger]

11. The only way to do paper ballots right is to have the vote at least 1 year in advance

Mandatory random peer recount. Utah recounts California, New York recounts Florida, etc....

[uponit7771]

16. I don't think it would take a year, HRC spent 1.2 billion... we can spend tat much as

... a nation to get funds in to pay people to count votes.

lol... elections would be a great job creation time

[Red State Prisoner]

15. I really don't think we were hacked, necessarily, BUT

They definitely played a hand in leaking "damaging" information from their acquisition of democratic documents and emails. In this sense, yes, I suppose we can call it a hack, but it was really the distribution of false information and news that fed just enough bullshit to the unenlightened masses. Unfortunately, the soft and quite malleable swing voter holds as much conviction as a fart in the wind.

As it is, you and I both know that there will be no hand count or 30-day review. We can hold our representative's feet to the fire all we like but there simply aren't enough Democrats in office and/or republicans willing to place the sanctity of our democracy first (Thus far the few who have spoken out have been all talk and no action). I really don't know where we go from here, but it's quite clear that we, as a country, are quite literally standing on the precipice.

[uponit7771]

17. Oooooook, the intel report says we were hacked at the state and local board level... there is no

... being a little pregnant with that account of what happened.

Either we were or weren't hacked at those levels of infrastructure

[mythology]

18. For the fucking love of god, the vote wasn't hacked

There was no statistically significant difference between counties in Wisconsin that were hand counted versus machine recounted. A hand recount would do nothing. Pretending it would just makes people look foolish.

[uponit7771]

22. Red Herring, no one said it was... you got anything else? thx in advance

[world wide wally]

23. Republicans don't want an efficient or accurate vote count and they control everything

[uponit7771]

24. True, I'm think we play some rope-a-dope... scream to high heaven that the "rural" area

.... votes aren't being counted and that's the reason the "liberals" can claim the popular vote and get them to press their reps for a manual count paid for by the governemnt.

Throw guns in there and shit for good measure...

Somethin

[volstork]

26. Voting machines need to work like ATMs.

As the vote is cast, a receipt for the voter is generated, as is hard copy documentation in the system. Interestingly, Diebold makes ATMs AND voting machines; they can do it for ATMs, so why not for voting machines? (Rhetorical question, I know. It is likely to their advantage for voting machines to be hackable...)

[uponit7771]

27. or there's a code to be checked so that there can be no claims of voter payment...

... you know I used to be passive about this issue but I ... wrongly... thought the voting infrastructure would be at least secure from hacking.

Its in the intel report

Now if we don't do this fuck a message, we can have the strongest message possible the KGOP will just do what they did in Russia and give us peripheral votes but never ever give controlling votes.

Yeah... a two coded reciept is what is needed with ID check to make sure the person checking the vote is the one who gave it