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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forums"N" word used at work ...unsure of how to respond
So, I am a teacher in a title one elementary school (North Carolina) that serves some 300 mostly black students. Today at a staff meeting the principal referred to our students as "crazy n*****s". Perhaps sensing that this was not received well by some in the room she then clarified that she doesn't mean it "racially".
I was shocked and unsure how to react. I didn't respond but I am uncomfortable leaving it as is.
Any advice on how I might handle this would be greatly appreciated.
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guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)A big question, speaking as a retired union representative, is the question of witnesses and corroborative testimony.
Are others willing to testify to the truth of what you allege has happened?
masmdu
(2,536 posts)guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)And if you are certain that others would corroborate, I would approach those others and ask what they thought.
Many times I had cases fail for lack of corroboration. Many times people are afraid to testify, fearing reprisal. And I hate to suggest it, but that racist person may not be alone in feeling that way among the staff.
adigal
(7,581 posts)if this fails.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)In Illinois, both parties must consent to any taping.
oasis
(49,380 posts)masmdu
(2,536 posts)65% Black 35% White
masmdu
(2,536 posts)
lunatica
(53,410 posts)You might simply ask her how you should react, and let her know how you're reacting to it now. If Black people use the word it's evidently quite different than white people using it. You could tell her it surprised you and that you respect her (if you do).
She may be speaking about something very specific when she uses the word, and it might be a cultural thing within Black circles. She's probably not using it the same way a white person would.
I mean that if a word like "pussy" can get women riled enough to show up in DC by the hundreds of thousands and also in all major cities in the world, well, it's very different when we women use the word "pussy" than, say, Trump or most males do. I can see where we would want to cut them off at the knees if they dare to use that word, yet we proudly call ourselves that at times.
So if I'm in mixed company and say "pussy" it's not at all what a man would mean when he says it. So, in essence it has become a word we women can use but not very healthy for the man who uses it.
masmdu
(2,536 posts)other reasons (that are nearly as shocking). But I may try talking with her.
dionysus
(26,467 posts)It changes the scenario from obvious racism, to one of an unprofessional, innapropriate remark.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)dionysus
(26,467 posts)boston bean
(36,221 posts)A black persons usage of the word on the same level as a white racist saying it.
SaschaHM
(2,897 posts)This is trademark "well-meaning white liberal" who doesn't understand black culture trying to change it to something that doesn't offend their sensibilities.
I don't use the word. I have family members that do. However, I'll be damned if I stop using it because it "offends" white people.
moriah
(8,311 posts)Look, I had an Asian coworker say to a white coworker, "What's up, my n*gga?" Wasn't intentionality "racial", was more cultural appropriation than anything else. Which he very well might have some experience dealing with himself, given how many white people are so enamored by Asian culture they make themselves look idiotic.
No blacks present in the room at *that* particular moment (we had more than just a token number on the desk, but the county itself had less than half a percentage point of African-Americans). He got written up, was complaining that it didn't hurt anyone because no one black was present to be offended.
Their response: "We have clients in and out of here all the time. It doesn't matter your race OR their race, it's simply unprofessional and we won't tolerate it, because it reflects badly on our company."
I'm not saying you don't have the right to reclaim the word that has been used against your race. But I can't use the C word at work and justify it by saying I have one and I don't care if it offends men who might not appreciate it being said in an office environment -- even if there IS a fairly large percentage of feminists reclaiming the word.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)That is wrong.
It does not carry the same weight. It is not the same offense. It isn't even an insult.
Inappropriate at work.. Likely.. But a lot of inappropriate things are said and done at work and a big deal isn't made of it, like wanting someone fired.
NoGoodNamesLeft
(2,056 posts)And I've heard plenty of non black people use the term in a non-insulting way too. In most cases, the way in which it is intended does matter. I don't think the race of the person using it is really the deciding factor in whether or not it's a racist comment.
The determining factor in this particular case is that this occurred by a professional educator in a position of authority over those it was said to and about. It was also directed at young children in an environment that is SUPPOSED to be a safe and supportive environment free of terms like this. The teacher was wrong for that reason...regardless of what context she did or didn't use the term.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)moriah
(8,311 posts).... when even most racist whites keep that word confined to white audiences in private -- only the most egregious, rabid ones use it in public. (My dad was pretty damn racist, saying he'd disown me if I ever dated outside my race, but not even he would say it to a black person.)
But in the context of a principal using it to refer to elementary school students, surely you aren't suggesting it's a compliment. Even if she was trying to use it as an "excuse" for, say, a high rate of disciplinary problems in the school itself (the "crazy" with it), that still doesn't make it seem complimentary.
I also agree that a white male probably shouldn't make a stink over it. After all, we didn't have the word used against us.
But I stand by my personal opinion that it's highly inappropriate for any principal to refer to her students as a group as "crazy", even without the extra epithet. Especially since many schools have extracurricular activities that might keep students in the school after hours, or if during school hours, a child could have been sent to deliver a message then.
Andnd if the behavior is condoned, eventually a student will hear it said again, and even if they're black and *don't* take offense to the unprintable word, surely they would resent being called "crazy".
It's the fact it was used in reference to elementary school students under her charge that significantly affects my opinion.
Cha
(297,186 posts)oasis
(49,380 posts)
Thanks Cha, for recognizing.
Cha
(297,186 posts)factors.
Mahalo
frazzled
(18,402 posts)I know you must fear for your job, so perhaps it can be done anonymously (?). Perhaps get several of the faculty from your school to report to bolster the story. But this principal needs to be removed from that school, pronto. Completely unacceptable. Probably actionable.
True Dough
(17,303 posts)I would consider reporting it to her supervisor at the district level or whatever the reporting hierarchy may be. But be prepared for having a confrontation with the principal when she finds out you have gone over her head. If you're willing to withstand a possible showdown, let it be known to the higher-ups.
Response to masmdu (Original post)
bravenak This message was self-deleted by its author.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Just the new normal as the racists become bolder.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Just might happen more and more
boston bean
(36,221 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)boston bean
(36,221 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)
blm
(113,052 posts)told us just last week that she hears white boys use the word all the time at her high school. Big shock for her since she went to a a very mixed magnet school in Mecklenburg.
Doodley
(9,088 posts)Once you have recorded any repetition, you have an insurance policy against being fired.
annabanana
(52,791 posts)Just how DOES she mean it?.. I wish someone had asked...
dionysus
(26,467 posts)It doesn't change the fact that it's a highly unprofessional and inappropriate thing to say, bit it sure means a lot regarding racial motives.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)masmdu
(2,536 posts)boston bean
(36,221 posts)boston bean
(36,221 posts)then you would have reason to lodge a complaint.
It may not have been a good decision to use the word but I believe she didn't mean it like a white person would.
masmdu
(2,536 posts)racially I'd be probably be fired in a minute.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)masmdu
(2,536 posts)boston bean
(36,221 posts)masmdu
(2,536 posts)
etherealtruth
(22,165 posts)You can find rebuttals to these opinions at any "alt-right" or racist sites ... but these articles lay out clear thoughts on how inappropriate it is for white people to use a term of racial oppression.
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=white+people+should+never+use+the+N+word&start=10
http://www.salon.com/2016/02/03/no_white_people_you_still_cant_say_the_n_word_that_word_belongs_to_black_people_and_our_culture_now_not_yours/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/malcolmaime-musoni/stop-saying-nigga-if-your_b_8190836.html
OldHippieChick
(2,434 posts)looking for a reason to report her since you mentioned you didn't like her for other reasons. Simply put, her use of the "n" word is different than if you, a white man, used it. Believe that as I can assure you some of the people telling you this are black.
masmdu
(2,536 posts)is that she has on more than one occasion called out the students she was handling for some infraction or other with comments like "these are my prisoners, practicing for when they go to real prison".
masmdu
(2,536 posts)is that she has on more than one occasion called out the students she was handling for some infraction or other with comments like "these are my prisoners, practicing for when they go to real prison".
brush
(53,774 posts)"crazy n_ _ _ers" publicly in the work place should not be fired?
Stand and Fight
(7,480 posts)fescuerescue
(4,448 posts)Stand and Fight
(7,480 posts)
whathehell
(29,067 posts)I fully recognize that the N-word carries far more negatively coming from a white person, but to say that a white teacher has no right to even mention it's coming from a black principle is too extreme, especially when you'd condone immediate firing for a white person using it.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)whathehell
(29,067 posts)
boston bean
(36,221 posts)whathehell
(29,067 posts)boston bean
(36,221 posts)whathehell
(29,067 posts)boston bean
(36,221 posts)whathehell
(29,067 posts)just to change it up some? 
masmdu
(2,536 posts)
MrPurple
(985 posts)Surprised how many seemingly articulate people keep referring to the black principle.
whathehell
(29,067 posts)
yardwork
(61,599 posts)boston bean
(36,221 posts)term of endearmemt. Not as a racial slur.
snooper2
(30,151 posts)Prime example #1
LisaM
(27,806 posts)I don't think anything is gained by confrontation at this point. Everyone's at a flashpoint right now. Best to count to ten and think of a quiet way to approach this. If this persists, well, it's a different issue.
raccoon
(31,110 posts)Another thing to consider is your job security.
If this woman decides to make your life miserable, how hard would it be for you to find another teaching position?
I agree she shouldn't have used the word, but I think an anonymous note, as has been suggested, might be the best way to go.
adigal
(7,581 posts)should be admonished for this, at the least. I don't care who says it, I don't want to hear that word at work.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)And from that fact i find little offense.
adigal
(7,581 posts)I would be in trouble, rightfully so. Because I am characterizing a group of student in a pejorative way.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)in group.
So... maybe she shouldn't have, but it aint the end of the world and this complainer ought to just let it be.
SharonClark
(10,014 posts)brush
(53,774 posts)should know better. It should be brought to her attention by higher-ups that use of that word will not be tolerated.
Of course it was racial, and it sounds like a bit of cooning (putting down her own race in front of at least some whites) was going on on her part.
She should be ashamed and probably not a principal.
BlueWI
(1,736 posts)I am a black man, a former high school teacher, now in higher education. The fact that anyone is defending the use of the N word by an administrator in a professional meeting to refer to students is simply ridiculous. It's cultural and not racial if the user is black??? Wow.So if my kid is referred to that way, I have no say or preference?? Since the black principal gets to define what's acceptable in my publicly funded school??
Welcome to 1910!
Can we agree to 21st century thinking now that it's 2017?
Cha
(297,186 posts)
Chitown Kev
(2,197 posts)and I'm black as well, who went through an incident like this with a black co-worker
I was called "the n-word" in the heat of a work related argument and you CANNOT tell me that Miss Thing who said that said that as a term of endearment...
Just because a black person calls another black person an "n-word" does not mean that it's always used as a term of endearment.
As a black woman, I am offended that another black person would refer to children as n*****s. I am old school-I do not think it is cool for us to refer to each other as that word. A student (she was white) I worked with and I corrected two black children for calling each other that.
Too many people died having that word yelled at them as they were being hung and killed.
Speak with other teachers as witnesses, but I would also speak with her personally and tell her that you are not comfortable with her using that word, EVEN if she is black.
And all of us who believe in the dignity of other human beings, especially with the climate of this country, need to call out people and remind them to be respectful of other people.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)masmdu
(2,536 posts)no matter who uses it. Your comments about dignity and respect help me think of how I may approach a conversation with her. Thank you very much!
boston bean
(36,221 posts)It is different when black people use it. It does not have the same meaning.
How you feel about it usage in the black community is anecdotal and way different than some white male taking offense to a black woman using the word in a non derogatory non racial manner.
It does not hold the same offense. And honestly I find this persons taking offense like a black person would when called that by a white person and like it is the same, to be racially offensive.
BlueWI
(1,736 posts)There are obvious differences in context for when black people use that term (usually not while in church or while speaking to elders as opposed to peers), and there's disagreement among black people as to whether the term should used at all. Why pretend to speak for all black people to create a justification? Why bash the OP for expressing this view as a white person? Truly old school racialist thinking.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)NoGoodNamesLeft
(2,056 posts)She said this on the job...and about little kids....students. It really doesn't matter one iota in what way she meant it. It was wrong simply because of the where and who it was directed at.
beaglelover
(3,469 posts)
struggle4progress
(118,282 posts)"This word always jars me, for so many reasons. I always hope never to hear it again"
You're afraid the children will hear somebody use the word and this it's OK. That's bound to happen if people use the word regularly. &c&c
masmdu
(2,536 posts)NoGoodNamesLeft
(2,056 posts)She was wrong, period. It's not OK for women to call each other sluts and whores. It's still just as rude and offensive when it's coming from a woman. A racial slur used to describe a school full of children isn't any less inappropriate just because it came from someone of that same race.
gordianot
(15,237 posts)They will deal with it through an investigation, these types of investigation rightfully assume a life of their own. Considering what now occupies the executive branch do it anyway. That district needs a good cleansing.
MrPurple
(985 posts)That could create a documentable record of correspondence about it, so that when she does more things in the future, you'll have a record of this, as well.
Zing Zing Zingbah
(6,496 posts)and shared my opinion in front of everyone that what was said was offensive and highly inappropriate for an educated professional in any field to talk like that. That's me though. I don't shy away from saying what needs to be said. It would bother me otherwise. I would then talk with like minded teachers and file a complaint against the principal.. with the superintendent, school board, union. Take it as high as it needs to go. Sorry, but they fucked up big time. They don't deserve the job if they talk like that. There are plenty of other people the can get to do the job.
MrPurple
(985 posts)Then, they'll appoint your principal as Betsy Devos' deputy and she'll be out of your hair.
TexasTowelie
(112,150 posts)It seems like the appropriate response would be to take it to the superintendent, but I would enlist other people to join you in any complaint. There will mostly be an element of retaliation by taking the next step up in the chain of command. The superintendent will likely tell you to ignore and forgive because it will be in the best interest of the school district not to have this reported elsewhere or for any lawsuits to be filed.
Despicable as it may be, this is one of those occasions where you might need to bite the bullet unless you are willing to risk your job because you will be labelled as a troublemaker by both the principal and the superintendent if you proceed with any action. At least the principal had enough sense to know that her remarks were offensive and she somewhat backtracked although without an apology. However, what she uttered is still out there and everyone knows what she really thinks about the students. I suspect that she lost a lot of respect from at least some of the teachers though.
yardwork
(61,599 posts)I don't know. Just putting the suggestion out there. What if you met with her in a private meeting and said that you weren't comfortable with that way of speaking about the students?
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I bet I know exactly what she actually said.
masmdu
(2,536 posts)I was clear about what she "actually" said.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Um, no. I say shit like that all the time. But let some white dude come say it about my kids and it would have me feeling like a slave. It's different.
MrPurple
(985 posts)Richard Pryor saying it and Michael Richards saying it.
Maybe as a black woman, she could have been trying to imply that the kids are from a rough disadvantaged background, which makes them difficult to handle. I think it has more overtly racist connotations if the principal is white.
m-lekktor
(3,675 posts)I certainly wouldn't report her. If her fellow AAs take issue that is for them/you to decide without any input from me.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)m-lekktor
(3,675 posts)
procon
(15,805 posts)Also call the ACLU as this is a legal issue that negatively impacts you as an employee, your coworkers, your work environment, as well as the education and growth of the children and their parents and the whole neighborhood. The attitude of the principal, even if it reflects the community's view, is still racist and that's covered under civil rights laws.
Stand up for the kids in your school, they feel the same way you do but there's nothing they can do about, but you can.
masmdu
(2,536 posts)Doodley
(9,088 posts)you need this job, you have to weigh up that you might be singled out if you make a complaint.
d_r
(6,907 posts)Mike Nelson
(9,953 posts)...tell the Principal you are not comfortable with the usage of the word. I'm guessing she knew it was a mistake and will apologize personally. You'll get a feel for how it proceeds from there... if there is another racial incident, it needs to go to her superior. In this escalation, her superiors will likely already know. Patterns can't be hidden. Most educators know where the employee problems are - most of the time, stuff like this is already on the radar. Go slowly and professionally, to protect yourself. Consider joining the teachers' union - they offer good advice.
Calculating
(2,955 posts)You say she's black herself? Seems like a nonissue then. A little inappropriate for sure, but it's not like she's a racist.
KosherPinay
(5 posts)She is black AND female.
You are white and male.
I would let it go unless you want to be "involved" for the long haul. It may not end well for her but it definitely won't end well for you.
If race and gender were reversed it would be a completely different story.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Like what the environment was like, the topics being discussed, was their a reason for such emphasis, etc. there is just no way to know with so little information.
I would tell the principal that is the wrong venue for such words. Both "crazy" and the other.
democratisphere
(17,235 posts)She didn't mean it in a racist way? Oh sure she didn't!
masmdu
(2,536 posts)word shocking and demeaning.
democratisphere
(17,235 posts)Just my opinion and thank you for yours.
masmdu
(2,536 posts)
meadowlander
(4,395 posts)Let her know that you were uncomfortable with her using it that way and ask that she not use it again in a professional environment.
Even if she was black and was using it in a "my niggas" sense, it's not appropriate to speak that way in a work environment, particularly in a school.
If she insists that there is nothing wrong with it or tries to retaliate against you for speaking up, report her ass to the union and the hr department. Your school will have an employee code of conduct somewhere which will have something on it about treating people with respect.
But I would try direct communication first as it could have been an honest mistake and she just misread the room and feels bad about it now.
Chitown Kev
(2,197 posts)doesn't mean that she can't use the word in a demeaning way...in fact she did, in this case...and on the job...
NoGoodNamesLeft
(2,056 posts)That is the principal's boss. If that goes nowhere you can report it to the school board or state Dept. of Education.
Glamrock
(11,797 posts)Mine is a bit different. I'm a lead tech so I have a crew that works under me. The last time someone used that language in front of me he was told it would be the last time or he could find a different crew to work on and someone else to show him the trade. My guys know I won't tolerate it. But, I'm the boss.
I think I'd probably have to have a meeting with my boss and tell them exactly what I think. If I got the sense that they gave two shits, I'd be working on my resume...
AKGirl86
(2 posts)One option is to contact your Human Resources Office (or the District's Office, if different) and make an EEO complaint. They may initiate an investigation of the incident. However, if they don't, at least it's on record should it occur again. Good luck.
scarletlib
(3,411 posts)
Red Mountain
(1,732 posts)Video is better but audio would suffice. Future issues should be handed to the media surreptitiously.
They'll take care of it.
In the Triangle area? I can help with that.
IcyPeas
(21,865 posts)and not one person stood up and immediately said anything? The entire room didn't gasp? I get she is Black. You do not use that word. She is the principal. geez.
I think this is an example of people being too damn politically incorrect.
gee, maybe Betsy Devos can help. Call her.
adigal
(7,581 posts)This is bullshit. She should not be anywhere near kids. And secretly tape the meetings if you are in a one person consent state. Don't if you're not, cause you could get in huge trouble.
But call. Right now. I had a Supt. mock a minority town near us, and I didn't call and he just moved on to another school system when he should have been fired. Do it now.
kimbutgar
(21,137 posts)Sounds like a closeted racist. Start looking fir a school to transfer to to another school next year.
The community also needs to know about this comment.
Lars39
(26,109 posts)Not in the education field, though, but as a manager. A manager would have been in deep doo. Wouldn't have mattered what race she was or how she meant it. That kind of language used usually results in a firing.
masmdu
(2,536 posts)Lars39
(26,109 posts)HoneyBadger
(2,297 posts)It makes a huge difference if it ends with an "er" or an "a" or an "az". But not with who said it.
BigDemVoter
(4,150 posts)She CANNOT talk like that. I would pick up the phone and report her to her boss. Who does she report to? I would do it and do it FAST. Were there other witnesses to this awful, awful statement?
Oh, and yes, she voted for Trump. I can assure you of that without ever having met the maggot.
masmdu
(2,536 posts)BigDemVoter
(4,150 posts)Are you serious? Yikes.
milestogo
(16,829 posts)
hunter
(38,311 posts)One day I was working in my office and I hear a "Fuck off, N..."
My white liberal self did of course leap out of my seat, but when I looked in on the crowd they were all smiling and happy, black girl having said this to black boy, and not in anger.
Whew. Not my problem. No need for one of my embarrassing dad lectures.
milestogo
(16,829 posts)but I don't think the young ones really grasp the depth of hurt one word can inflict.
NoGoodNamesLeft
(2,056 posts)Not high school students referring to their friends.
Doodley
(9,088 posts)to any exchange between yourself and the principle, and maybe some others would have joined in.
Now if you complain, you are a minority of one. I think it would be a very bad career move to pursue it. Is it worth risking throwing away your career? If you make a formal complaint, she could throw mud around to protect herself. Even if you have a quiet word with her, you might be seen as a white man challenging the authority of a black woman who is your senior. Either way, once you go down that route, the consequences will be irreversible. To those who think this wouldn't happen, you are very lucky if you or friends and family have not been victims of workplace abuse from a vindictive boss, because it is widespread.
However, you could still take the highroad without making yourself a target by proposing some form of cultural awareness program, if the school doesn't already have one that would foster more respect among both staff and students. Maybe you could canvass other teachers to get an idea of the level of support it may have.
NoGoodNamesLeft
(2,056 posts)I can tell you what I would do if I were in this situation.
First, at the time that principal said that I would have looked right at her and asked her why the bloody hell she called young children a racial slur. If she showed remorse and it was clear that she was really sorry then I would tell her that I was going to allow her 5 minutes to call her boss to inform them of what she did and apologize and ask for diversity training for the entire district staff or I would make the call in front of her to report it.
If the situation was not handled correctly I would not hesitate to report it to the school board, state dept. of education, the parents of the children and the media. It may mean losing my job or being black listed or whatever...but sometimes doing the right thing is not easy. However...when doing the right thing is uncomfortable that means it's the most important time to do the right thing because less people will be willing to.
Doodley
(9,088 posts)And if you had children and a mortgage, would you think it was worth losing your house and telling your kids that the vacation and heath insurance is being canceled, no more pocket money and only groceries from the food bank? What exactly would that achieve? "Sorry we lost our house kids, but at least I have principles!"
NoGoodNamesLeft
(2,056 posts)He isn't the one who did something wrong. In fact, if he got fired for that he'd have grounds for one hell of a lawsuit, which would pay off his house.
I would probably wait until after the meeting to approach the principal and I would be as tactful as possible...but I would still be honest. Any good educator would quickly recognize they were wrong and apologize.
To make a long story short...yes, I would still do what I felt was the right thing. I would not want to teach my kids NOT to do the right thing.
qwlauren35
(6,148 posts)When I read the OP, I didn't know she was black. And knowing she was black changed things. But hearing that she said that the kids were all going to prison anyway got to me. ("these are my prisoners, practicing for when they go to real prison".) This is a woman who does not believe in her students, their capabilities, their dreams and aspirations, and all that makes these years precious as a developmental time in their lives. IF she had not made the prison comment, one could argue that she was saying "MY niggas" which would be a term of endearment. And even "crazy niggas" might be the truth, if they are rowdy, but in an endearing tone. Me personally, I HATE the word and will never accept that it can be taken over and owned by African-Americans. Heck, I even hate writing it. But I acknowledge that the word has been taken in culturally and given an endearing meaning, something like "homey" or "homes" was. It suggests a deep kinship and shared experience, even with someone you barely know. "That nigga is crazy" can be followed up by (or implied) "I ain't mad atcha", endorsing someone's right to act a bit "out there". Or "that nigga is crazy" can also mean that he's a bit over the line, and again, maybe that's okay or you might want some distance, or it might mean that someone is so far over the line that you want to disown him, or at least dismiss him as not like everyone who is "normal".
SO! As I said, without the prison comment, I would dismiss it. But in addition to the prison comment, it's time to find another school to teach in. You cannot easily get rid of a black principal in a black school. People would scream. But if she makes you uncomfortable, it's time to go. Unless you are making such a difference in the children's lives that you feel compelled to stay. If that's the case, do what you do. But know that if you say ANYTHING, you make an enemy that you don't need. Don't talk to her, don't talk to others, don't go over her head... However, if someone else, someone black, files a complaint, then you can back it up.
MrPurple
(985 posts)Last edited Wed Feb 8, 2017, 01:01 AM - Edit history (1)
my opinions on the topic may have limited insight. But, it sounds like the principal is too "ghetto" in her attitude to be the one in a position that should be setting expectations for kids to be able to excel beyond their some of their environment.
Even if it's just her way of being humorous behind the scenes, her role should be to inspire people to achieve. It's not as offensive as if a white person was saying it, but for a well paying, responsible job, she should be better than that. But, you've got to pick your battles and maybe it's not worth the fight.
qwlauren35
(6,148 posts)In the OP there should be a note that you are a white male and the principal is a black female. It really does make a difference.
NoGoodNamesLeft
(2,056 posts)If a white principal called the kids at the school my kids went to "little honkeys" I'd be pissed. Just because she is black and he isn't doesn't mean what she said was OK.
qwlauren35
(6,148 posts)The word nigger, or nigga, or niggaz, depending on who says it and how they say it means many different things. Especially coming from a black person, there is no way of knowing the context. Some people truly use it as a term of endearment. Really. Hard to believe, but yes. It can be a term of endearment, with nothing demeaning or derogatory meant.
It's possible that you don't see the difference. I think it's wrong, but for different reasons. I think it's highly unprofessional to use the word in front of a mixed audience where the intent can be misunderstood. She should have known better and it is reasonable to question her judgment.
There was an episode of Black-ish in which the word and the use of the word was explored within a black household. The grandparents told the son not to use the word, but then there were instances in which they had used it. In the end, the father told the son "know your audience". Absolutely do NOT use the word in the presence of people who would not understand its use. It also probably should not be used around elders, even if they say it themselves. If you've never heard your parents use it, don't use it in front of them, out of respect. But among friends, if its an acceptable word, use it as you see fit.
It's like "queer". It's been embraced. I doubt "faggot" has been embraced, but I'm not part of that community so I don't know. I absolutely would NEVER call any gay person that word. But if they choose to use it among themselves, it's really their call.
The other day, I was with a co-worker and I said something and her response was "Fuck You". I laughed hysterically to know that I'd pushed that button. But I was in no way offended. But if a white kid yelled that at me, I would feel threatened. It's context.
NoGoodNamesLeft
(2,056 posts)And not that it makes a bit of difference...but I have several black family members and many black friends, neighbors and co-workers. I was not born under a rock and am very familiar with the different ways in which the term is used.
And there simply is never any time where it would be appropriate or acceptable for any incarnation of the term to be used when talking about kindergarten through 5th grade children.
Just because the principal happens to be black doesn't mean that she therefore has some mysterious social handicap that makes her incapable of being goddamned professional and respectful to the students she is supposed to be protecting from harm. Would it be OK for a woman principal to refer to the female students as a bunch of little sluts or whores? Have more respect for the millions of black professionals in the world. We all operate on the exact same level and know the difference between right and wrong.
SaschaHM
(2,897 posts)can't emulate them or don't understand them. Sorry. Context matters. In the many minority majority communities, the term is not used in a derogatory manner. period. Those are the brakes. Now we don't have a lot of context nor the racial make up of the room, but age has never played a role in whether a black person can or can not use a word.
NoGoodNamesLeft
(2,056 posts)She was not talking to her buddies. She was talking about little children. Some of my black family members have young children and I can assure you that if they heard that principal refer to their child that way there would be hell to pay.
I don't give a shit what people say on their personal time...but in a public school funded by tax dollars I DO care and if this happened in my state I would have every right to complain and have a say about it.
qwlauren35
(6,148 posts)If black parents complained, there would be no weaseling out with the "I didn't mean it racially". It would go up, and she might get fired.
But a white teacher complaining about a black principal using the word... it's complicated.
NoGoodNamesLeft
(2,056 posts)Like I mentioned earlier in this thread...doing the right thing is not always comfortable. When you see something you know is wrong and should speak out against the more uncomfortable it is to do the right thing...the more important it is to do it...because it's less likely anyone else will.
I would have spoken to the principal after the meeting and told her what I thought and why and that I felt obligated to report it. I would offer to let her self report in front of me first and if she chose not to do that I would make the call to report it right in front of her. That's the respectful and honest way to be.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)"it's complicated."
Welcome to actual world, rather than the simplistic, bumper-sticker solutions wrapped up neatly within 30 minutes, all in front of a laugh track.
Nuance, you see. Context, layers... concepts easy to dismiss in that simplistic and convenient world, so black in white in its moral environment.
So yeah... if that's new to you, welcome aboard. 
SaschaHM
(2,897 posts)So get out of here with that "my black friend" bullshit. DU rules prevent me from really telling you what I think about your racist goal settings for black folks so I'm just going to put you on ignore where you belong.
We all know that you are more upset that you as a white person can't say it than a black person can. You're not fooling anyone with your shit.
MrPurple
(985 posts)But I think it's overly harsh to imply that they're coming from a core of racism where they're frustrated that they can't use the N word themselves.
SaschaHM
(2,897 posts)This one is special though and has threatened to leave the site and the democratic party multiple times over racial issues.
NoGoodNamesLeft
(2,056 posts)I get frustrated when some posters on here make assumptions that entire swaths of people are racists without even knowing them. I have said time and time again that I stand up for what is right and fair no matter what. To call people you don't even know racist is not being honest or truthful.
And I have not threatened to leave the site. I have said that I am sick of hearing the level of anti-white crap on here and it makes me wonder why I bother stand up against actual racism and bias and not want to bother when I see so much hate coming from some of these threads.
So now you are calling me a racist and misrepresenting things I have said in the past. That's a great way to unite against the shit storm hitting the country now.
If you think that I'm not going to have honest and difficult discussions about race when the issue comes up you've got another thing coming. The attitude you've been bringing to the conversation is automatically confrontational. What does that solve? You want to be all angsty and pissed...go ahead...but you'd be much better served by directing that in a more productive way instead of attacking people on this site who actually have a lot of shared beliefs.
But hey...keep defending a principal who behaved badly and was wrong just for the sake of opposing what I said because you don't like my honesty. No skin off my ass...
NoGoodNamesLeft
(2,056 posts)I just have an issue with her using the term to refer to little kids. That's all kind of fucked up.
MrPurple
(985 posts)There's a world of difference between her saying that to the kids and joking with majority black staff behind the scenes.
It's a loaded topic. That's why a thread like this gets so many hits and comedians who sell out stadiums do bits on when the word can be used. I wondered if there's an element of self cultural put down to it, where that principal sets the bar low and isn't pushing for higher achievement. That partially came from the OP saying that the principal referred to the kids as future inmates.
But, I recognize that there's a ton of nuance to it and that when the kids are being wild, AA staff jokingly saying "crazy n.....'s" might not be that different than a white principal in the suburbs calling kids little maniacs when they scream in the halls or blow off fireworks in the bathroom or something.
It might be worse, but I'd tread lightly and respect the black people's opinion who were involved. IMO, the OP's first step should be to talk discreetly with other teachers who were there and see how they feel about it. He may have done that, but I don't think I saw it mentioned in his posts.
NoGoodNamesLeft
(2,056 posts)I still come back to having to question the principal's judgement. I'm not sure if you have kids in school or not, but schools are incredibly strict where doing or saying anything even remotely offensive is concerned. As the principal she would have had to deal with 5 and 6 year olds running around slapping classmates on the rear end and laughing hysterically and some schools viewing it as sexual harassment when kids that little don't even understand what that is. I just get the impression there might be a bit more going on with this principal than any of us know.
I think I would go right to the principal directly rather than ask others because that's how rumors get going, and that could cause hard feelings. If it bothered him then he should say it did.
NoGoodNamesLeft
(2,056 posts)I doubt it.
No, I'm not "getting out of here." Yes, I have lots of black friends. Over half of my neighbors are black. I have 4 very close black family members.
So now you are calling me a racist for stating the obvious...that calling elementary school students a racial slur is wrong? I was just telling someone the other night how common it is for white people who are in no way racist to be accused of being racist. Now I can point to your post to illustrate that.
And for your information, I don't use the word...and have no inclination to. If you want to say it I really don't give a flying fart...UNLESS you are in a publicly funded job setting while serving a vulnerable population and think you should just refer to the entire student body of young children using a racial slur. You do that, and yeah, I'm going to call you on it...not because you are black or because I have some burning desire to be an offensive jackass and use the term myself...but because you would be wrong. Wrong has no color or race...
kwassa
(23,340 posts)but to me you have little understanding of the history or the issues involved.
You seem to think that what is appropriate for white people is exactly appropriate for black people, and that is both ignorant and unhistorical.
I suggest you sit down and discuss your issues with your black family members and friends, and get their opinions on this subject. I doubt that you will do this, somehow.
NoGoodNamesLeft
(2,056 posts)It is simply a matter of WHERE she used the term and WHO it was directed at. Those things are what makes it wrong.
I am 100% positive that every last one of my black family members, friends and neighbors would be furious that ANY principal would use that term in reference to little kids.
If this principal had said this outside of the school to another adult no one would be taking issue with it. It's not that she said the word...it's that she said it in a professional environment as an educator whose job it is to ensure those kids have a safe and welcoming learning environment. That's what makes it wrong.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)I think you should survey your black family members, friends and neighbors, and see if they actually agree with you. Please quote directly from the OP without adding anything.
I think you might be surprised.
NoGoodNamesLeft
(2,056 posts)This is from the North Carolina's education department. It covers the standards for public school principals and asst. principals throughout the state.
Read pages 10-12 starting under the heading "Competencies."
It's not a "black thing." It's a public educator thing and why what she said about those little kids is unacceptable no matter if she's black, white, orange, purple or rainbow colored. You CAN'T talk like that as a school administrator. When a principal steps into a public school she checks her personal stuff at the door and behaves with the utmost professionalism. If she cannot or will not do that then she's in the wrong profession.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)Got a specific quote?
You are attempting to impose your standard of correctness as if it were universal, and it is not. Keep trying, though. There is nothing specific in this document you have quoted.
This entire issue is a mountain-out-of-a-molehill.
NoGoodNamesLeft
(2,056 posts)I spent a considerable amount of time locating the information and even told you which few pages to focus on. The fact that you didn't bother to do that tells me that your goal here is not to have a meaningful and productive dialogue.
Your opinion on the matter is irrelevant because she accepted a job that has very clear and concise standards, policies and code of conduct that she is REQUIRED to follow. This is true of EVERY job working with any vulnerable population. If she is incapable of or unwilling to follow those policies and standards then she has no business holding that position. Period.
Your only argument is that she is entitled to violate the requirements of her position simply because you are under the very mistaken belief that no black person could ever use that word with ill intent. That's a load of crap.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)This document only discusses conduct in generalities. The rest of this you are making up. Your standards only.
qwlauren35
(6,148 posts)If you read a few of my other posts, you would see that I think she was unprofessional. And I'll give you ghetto.
I think my concern was that people thought she was racist. If you've got black family members then maybe you understand that the people here who are calling her racist don't realize that she's black.
I would add that it might be difficult to get a black female at a black school fired for acting ghetto. She would probably sue the school board, and it would get ugly.
I think that's why many of the AA folks have suggested that he leave it alone. It's too complicated.
NoGoodNamesLeft
(2,056 posts)And that would be all good and well in a personal environment. That's not what the situation was, though. None of us know if the principal is racist or not. The fact that she is black makes it less obvious but not impossible. And yeah, I do think that someone can be racist against their own race. For me, that aspect didn't even come into play. It's just not ever appropriate to refer to children that way. I don't care if she is black or not...had I been there I would have called her out on it. That's not the kind of example you should set for your staff or students.
MrPurple
(985 posts)if she was your boss, you were white, and the other people in a majority black environment didn't seem to have a problem with it.
Everyone seems to agree that the principal is inappropriate/unprofessional, but not only is there a context as to how offensive the comments were, there's a context to whether, as an observer, it's worthwhile to make an issue out of it.
NoGoodNamesLeft
(2,056 posts)I've had a black supervisor and been the only white person on staff and even in the entire neighborhood. It was at a YWCA before and after school program for low income children. The center was next door to a massive housing project/development in a southern city. There had been a gang murder on the center playground after hours. I walked the little kids to and from school by myself. I was probably the only white person for a couple of square miles. It was a tough place. If that didn't make me crap my pants in fear then I don't think I'd be intimidated by a principal. :p
qwlauren35
(6,148 posts)You act like you have an honorary black card. (Probably not in DU, but hopefully you understand what I'm saying and don't take offense.) BECAUSE you are familiar with the nuances, and because you can distinguish between racist and inappropriate, you could call her out. And you would.
But one of the things that hasn't been addressed is that none of the black teachers called her out. That's part of what makes it complicated. The average white male teacher, who goes home to a white family, in a world where "nigga" is never okay, can't raise the issue without calling a lot of complicated factors of race into play. If a black teacher called her out, the race factor is immediately removed, and it comes down to professionalism, judgment, and the possibility that she has absolutely no respect for the children in her school, maybe even hates them and wishes she was at another school. But it's not about race.
Now, no matter how many black relatives you have, you're still white. Nobody has to know about your black relatives unless you tell them. You seem to think you're entitled to fight injustice, etc. That's the whiteness. If you were a black teacher, you would not jump into it without a lot of thought to consequences. The black parent, yes. The black teacher, no.
People who have advised him to lay low probably see that it could get messy. If this white teacher is not afraid of letting it get messy, then go for it. But not everyone is prepared to play hero in a jungle.
NoGoodNamesLeft
(2,056 posts)lol, on DU there are some here who are convinced that I'm a racist troll who only posts to piss them off and cause division. Nothing could be further from the truth. I'm just not afraid to have a candid debate about race and I think intent matters and that really pisses off some people on here.
I'd like to think that if I were black I'd speak up too, but I'll never know the answer to that because I'm not. I know that it would be more difficult for one of the black teachers to speak up because the reality of societal biases is always looming overhead, and the risk can be higher as a result.
It's not so much that I think I'm entitled to fight injustice. It's more like I feel it's my responsibility to do it. It's also something I am compelled to do, sort of like a purpose.
The original poster I believe mentioned that he doesn't have a lot of respect for this principal. I'm curious why he feels that way.
Maybe his best bet is to talk to her and tell her it made him feel really uncomfortable and he's not entirely sure how he should address it other than it's bothering him enough where he needs to discuss it and hear what she has to say and then take it from there.
qwlauren35
(6,148 posts)For why he doesn't respect her.
NoGoodNamesLeft
(2,056 posts)I've seen my share of bad educators in my lifetime...some so bad they have no business being teachers. If I heard someone speaking like that about the students I wouldn't respect them either.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)I know, all the time your people spent in slavery ....
SaschaHM
(2,897 posts)NoGoodNamesLeft
(2,056 posts)It doesn't matter if she's black or white or part of any other group. She referred to elementary school students using a racial slur while on the job to her staff, many of whom were left feeling very uncomfortable. It's unprofessional, unacceptable and sets a horrible example for the staff and students. There is absolutely no rational debate against that. It doesn't matter that the term may have different meanings for her...it's just not appropriate or acceptable in the workplace, especially a school and by an educator.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)You don't even understand the context in which it is spoken.
You were not in this staff meeting, you were not in this room, the only uncomfortable person, as far as we know, is the OP writer.
You repeatedly insist, in many threads here, that it is exactly the same when a black person or a white person uses a questionable term or action, and you are incorrect. It is not the same. The history is entirely different.
You have no historical or social context. No understanding whatsoever.
and your insistence that it is the same reveals more about your ignorance of racial matters and history than anything else.
NoGoodNamesLeft
(2,056 posts)No, I don't know in which context she was using the term. Guess what...neither do you. And again...the context is irrelevant. You keep trying to make this about some secret meaning that only black people are aware of. It's really not that big of a secret kwassa...but many white and black people are very close friends. They even hang out together. Sometimes they date. Sometimes they even get married and have beautiful little babies...or not get married and still have those babies. It really does happen all the time.
Actually, the OP indicated that the comment was not well received by more than just him as referenced by this quote:
"Perhaps sensing that this was not received well by some in the room she then clarified that she doesn't mean it "racially".
So now you are claiming that I have repeatedly insisted in many threads here that it is exactly the same when a black person or a white person uses a questionable term or action....yet you do not provide any specific examples. Even in this thread I didn't even say the meaning or context was the same. I have repeatedly said that what matters is WHERE she used the term and WHO it was directed at. It wasn't/isn't even about the context. That doesn't even matter.
Now back to these other threads you are talking about. What I HAVE said in the past and stand by is that when a black person assumes that all white people believe, think or feel the same way it's stereotyping and is no different from when white people stereotype black people. Those are just the facts.
I'm just wondering how many more ways you are going to dream up in an attempt to insult me in your next post. If you are used to having that win arguments by trying to intimidate your opponent into silence you may want to come up with another method. This one is not going to cut the mustard.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)NoGoodNamesLeft
(2,056 posts)eom
kwassa
(23,340 posts)I have been in an interracial marriage for decades, lived and worked with black people my entire adult life, just to fill you in. I have also made a serious effort to study the issues, and I really don't get that sense from you at all. You think you know better than black people what is best for them, which is a pretty fascinating conceit. Your basic assumption, which is wrong, is that all people experience the use of the n-word the way that you experience it, when it actually has a much more complex use in the black community, not all of it negative. Others have already pointed this out in this thread.
Now back to these other threads you are talking about. What I HAVE said in the past and stand by is that when a black person assumes that all white people believe, think or feel the same way it's stereotyping and is no different from when white people stereotype black people. Those are just the facts.
You are wrong, actually
It is different because the history is different, and whites never experienced oppression as a result of the stereotyping of black people. It is that oppression that makes it different. It is the same in the discussion of racism, as current definitions of racism include the concept of power to inflict damage as a result of that racism, something that black people have never had.
SaschaHM
(2,897 posts)realized that I don't have to patience to explain to white DUers the cultural differences between uses of the n-word in the black community and in other communities like I don't have the patience to explain seemingly embraced queer lingo to aghast straight folks that may find it offensive.
Listen to the many black Duers that have chimed in and let it go. Going down this rabbit hole is not worth it.
I'm black and from NC. In majority-minority communities, that word is used a lot more (in non offensive ways) than one would imagine.
masmdu
(2,536 posts)SaschaHM
(2,897 posts)NoGoodNamesLeft
(2,056 posts)There are certain things you just do NOT say in a professional and educational environment. If she were saying it to friends in a casual setting then it's not a big deal if they don't care. This was something she said about elementary school kids to her colleagues and it made at least some of them very uncomfortable. You can't say things considered offensive in a work environment because that makes it feel hostile to others. She was wrong.
NoGoodNamesLeft
(2,056 posts)My question is this...exactly when is it appropriate to call a 5 year old "my nigga?" in a school setting? And by a professional educator who is supposed to be setting an example for the rest of the staff, children and community?
Women may jokingly and affectionately call each other "ho, bitch, whore, slut, etc." That doesn't make it appropriate to talk that way about little kids.
cbdo2007
(9,213 posts)If not I would report her to the school board, nobody needs that type of talk about the children in their school and it was inappropriate. If anyone at my work said that I would report them to HR immediately.
Doodley
(9,088 posts)cbdo2007
(9,213 posts)and that is the process so it is what it is.
EllieBC
(3,014 posts)Like in your union or the district?
TheDebbieDee
(11,119 posts)device that fits in your pocket. I don't know if it is legal to record conversation w/o participant's permission in your neck of the woods or not, but if something like this happens again, at the very least, you will have proof that it happened...
Chitown Kev
(2,197 posts)This is unacceptable of that principal to this on the job and on the clock, period.
I don't care whether she is black or not.
Wee this off-the-clock over a drink or something, then I would think differently about the matter.
vlyons
(10,252 posts)I would meet with her privately and tell her that you were offended and deeply disappointed. That you thought she was a better person than that. Tell her that how we "mean" our words is not always how they are received. That's why we need to be mindful about what we say and the possible effects that they have on others. Since she is the principal, she has a duty to set the tone and high standards that teachers and students should abide by. Tell her under no conditions is it ever acceptable to use the N-word, especially by an educator in a school. Tell her that a simple apology to the staff would go a long way towards repairing her esteem in the eyes of her staff. This could be a teaching opportunity and a kindness towards her if you handle it skillfully without anger. She's not a bad person, just a human who made a mistake.
TransitJohn
(6,932 posts)Call state labor department.
PoindexterOglethorpe
(25,853 posts)Some twenty-five years ago I was waiting at the gate for an inbound plane (my sons and I were passengers on the outbound flight) and I fell into cordial conversation with an older, very dignified, black man. We exchanged the sorts of pleasantries strangers exchange in these circumstances, and very peripherally acknowledged our racial differences. Things proceeded quite nicely, until the plane arrived, and as passengers came off, one other black man at the gate greeted an arriving passenger with the n word. They were clearly friends, and it was clearly okay between them, but the sudden wall that arose between me and the man I was speaking with, was quite painful. After a pause he said something along the lines of, "I just don't get this younger generation" and I responded in some similar neutral tone. What hurt the most was that the bond we'd established was cracked, not completely broken, but neither of us quite knew how to heal the rift.
My point here is that the n word is hugely disruptive, no matter who uses it, and no matter what the circumstances. I have never forgotten that encounter, and how the connection between me and a black man was severed by the casual use of that word.
Your colleague was completely out of line. There is simply no way that she could have used that word in a non racial sense. She needs someone to talk to her, to confront her about this.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)...where you intentionally leave out the races of the people involved, wait for some responses, and only then mention that the principal is black?
Sure seems like it.
Dallasdem1988
(77 posts)To be quiet and listen. I know I'm fairly new but I have been reading this forum for years. Members such as bravenak, sheshe, cha, etc of our Wonderful AA DU community do a great job of telling us when to "sit down and shut up" to take a page from McConnell the turtles book(though they are actually justified).
We don't understand the dynamics of the AA community like they do and never will. It's an experience you can't just guess at or observe from the outside.
As whites in the party we need to do everything we can to listen to our brothers and sisters who are POC and minorities and let them have their turn. White people have done enough damage this election and in the past, we have to be loyal to our most loyal base.
If you want a party that kowtows to the views of whites only then go ahead and become a repugliKKKan. Otherwise it's time we realize that these people and not white people are the future and we stop trying to tell them what is right and wrong for them.
NoGoodNamesLeft
(2,056 posts)Difficult and honest dialogue has to happen and BOTH sides need to be respectful and listen to each others experiences and what they bring to the table. If that doesn't happen then dialogue is one sided, unfair, not open and one side can end up feeling very frustrated, angry and resentful.
On this very thread a black person called me a racist. I'm in no way, shape or form a racist. In fact, I'm one of the few people who actually notices those deeply ingrained societal biases when they happen and make an effort to counter them in real time. I also see the mistakes that many black people make when talking about racism and bias that actually contributes to the problem. I've been trying to point that out when I see it here...because I honestly believe that it is a large part of what keeps the societal and institutional bias against blacks going strong. It's a very tough subject to bring up, though, because when someone has experienced a life time of those built in biases they tend to be very defensive about the subject. Like you are in your post...they are convinced that there is no way someone who isn't black could ever grasp their reality and what it's like for them. While I can't experience what it's like to be black and have those biases directed at me for that reason...I DO notice it happening and I see the pain it causes. I know the pain it caused me when I experienced the biases against poor single mothers.
The bottom line is...only a small percentage of white people are really actual racists that intentionally have an irrational hatred for minorities that will never change. There are a lot of white people who have had really bad experiences with one or a few people of color and they may be angry, hurt, resentful...and they are stereotyping all based on those few experiences. This type of person CAN change and are more likely to think they are hated by minorities than the other way around...but they are defensive after the bad experience/s. Then you have white people who may unintentionally do or say something very biased without even realizing it or ever meaning to. These people are not racists or bigoted in any way...they probably didn't even realize they were doing or saying something wrong. These people who get accused of being a racist when they aren't can eventually push them into the last group, who are hurt, angry and resentful for being unfairly and falsely labelled a racist. That dynamic is exactly what caused otherwise good people to vote for that orange asshole.
I refuse to treat anyone differently just because of their race. Not engaging in honest dialogue would be treating them differently than I would anyone else. I won't do that.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)and here is specifically where you are wrong, in my opinion:
In fact, I'm one of the few people who actually notices those deeply ingrained societal biase when they happen and make an effort to counter them in real time. I also see the mistakes that many black people make when talking about racism and bias that actually contributes to the problem. I've been trying to point that out when I see it here...because I honestly believe that it is a large part of what keeps the societal and institutional bias against blacks going strong.
Now, who died and made you God?
This statement sounds quite egotistical. You believe that you and you alone see the problem of racism objectively. You alone or nearly alone notice deeply ingrained societal biases. You believe you see the wrongness in the approach of many black people to the problem of racism. You are here to tell some of the black participants here on DU how they are wrong in their reactions to racist behavior.
I think you are extraordinarily wrong to believe that you have some special insight that others don't have. Black people spend a lifetime experiencing deeply ingrained societal biases, better known as racism. They don't need you to observe this for them. They also don't need you to tell them how to handle their reaction to their own life experience.
I think your need to tell them so is both patronizing and ignorant. And egotistical.
Lee-Lee
(6,324 posts)I am pretty amazed at how many people are willing to give a pass to the use of a racial slur in a professional environment, in conduct of official business, from the head of that school to subordinate employees based on the race of the person using it.
While that persons race may change how charged that use is or may change your perspective on what the intent was- it simply is still 100% unacceptable to use that word in a professional environment. Period.
It is made doubly worse that it was done in the context of official business and from the head supervisor at that school to subordinates.
You can set whatever standard you want for using terms like that in a persons private life based on their background or race. But in a professional setting it is unacceptable and highly unprofessional and should not be tolerated regardless of the race of the person uttering it.
fescuerescue
(4,448 posts)Nothing like a little publicity and protests out front to get this racist fired.
LexVegas
(6,060 posts)
Inkfreak
(1,695 posts)Idgaf if they're white or black or brown. Or whatever.
Have some fucking decorum.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)I'm sure many people believe you are sincere. I'm also certain you'll allege sincerity. Who wouldn't'?
MineralMan
(146,288 posts)which was at the time it happened. The appropriate response, given what we have learned in this thread, would have been to say, at the time, something like this: "Excuse me, but any use of that word in these meetings makes me very uncomfortable. I hope I won't hear it used again in this setting."
That is a polite, but direct way of saying what needed to be said. The time to mention such things is when they occur, and in the setting in which they occurred. After time has passed, you could still address it, but it would have been far better to bring up your discomfort at the time.
And, certainly, DU can't assist you with this, especially if DUers don't have all the pertinent information immediately at hand.
That's my opinion, anyhow.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)
Fla Dem
(23,656 posts)superintendent or school board. Of course if they do nothing about it you will have placed yourself in a precarious position. But even her comment that the students are "crazy" doesn't speak well for her attitude toward them in general. However, I don't know the what the discussion was when the comment was made. Were you talking about the crazy things kids do, or was this more of a blanket criticism about the students? In either case the epithet was not acceptable.
egduj
(805 posts)heaven05
(18,124 posts)that a school administrator would use the nigga word in open company as the idiom is understood by AA and wannabe's. Yet the egregious intent and malice behind those who hate AA and POC when using the n*****word is understood also, always. No I do not like usage of this word in any idiom, is offensive to me. . ...but to each their own in understanding intent of idiom used and how received.
tirebiter
(2,536 posts)Start softly with a question about appropriate language in the workplace. Get an idea of who you're talking to in a professional manner. There should be in services on this.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)jcboon
(296 posts)There is a nuance in the use of that expression by African Americans to which white people are usually not sensitive.
Words aren't offensive--its context.
It's condescending and elitist, not to mention racist, for white folks to tell African Americans what is offensive to African Americans.
retrowire
(10,345 posts)Which one? Really curious.
Also, contact the superiors. Do the right thing.