Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

MineralMan

(146,308 posts)
Sun Feb 19, 2017, 01:06 PM Feb 2017

The odds are strongly against a Trump impeachment and removal.

Quite frankly, it has never happened. There have been a couple of impeachments, but no removals in our entire history. Almost all of us remember Clinton's impeachment, but the Senate failed to get the 2/3 majority for removal. Nixon was in danger of impeachment, too, but he resigned to prevent it from happening for the very first time in history.

Resigned. That's the operative word we need to keep in our minds. Resignation is the surest, most painless way to get rid of a President. If we can adequately thwart Trump's nefarious plans, through the courts or otherwise, his frustration will grow. He's a fragile man, really. His massive ego needs constant reinforcement.

The Judicial Branch is the key to all of this. If it blocks Trump's initiatives again and again, due to the unconstitutionality of what he proposes, he will grow more and more frustrated and frustration could well lead to his resignation. At some point, he could be forced to throw up his hands and simply wander off into the night, after a speech that blames everyone but himself for his failure to lead.

That is why we need to continue to support the ACLU and other legal groups who are willing to bring suit in federal court when Trump's nonsense violates the constitution or other laws. The judges and justices of the federal court system predate Trump. His own appointees won't begin hitting the federal court benches for some time. And even his own appointees may well look at his proposals and executive orders with an eye on the Constitution. ACLU and other organization attorneys know how to write briefs that demonstrate such constitutional errors.

So, if you haven't done so already, donate to the ACLU, immigrant legal defense funds and other organizations that will bring these suits in federal district courts. We've already won an important one with the immigration ban executive order. Trump was thwarted in his plan. We need to keep blocking his measures. Eventually, his over-inflated ego will reach the breaking point.

Let's help hasten that day!

19 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
The odds are strongly against a Trump impeachment and removal. (Original Post) MineralMan Feb 2017 OP
What if he has a full blown out meltdown that looks insane kimbutgar Feb 2017 #1
If that happens, he'll get massive pressure to resign from MineralMan Feb 2017 #4
I don't think he has the attention span for the job and it will get (already is) boring for him NRaleighLiberal Feb 2017 #2
Nixon would have been removed... VMA131Marine Feb 2017 #3
Perhaps, but that was not something he or Congressional MineralMan Feb 2017 #6
The difference is both chambers were democratic yeoman6987 Feb 2017 #17
I agree 100% njhoneybadger Feb 2017 #5
"Resigned" is the most likely, and I hope it doesn't happen truebluegreen Feb 2017 #7
Make him hate being President. The Velveteen Ocelot Feb 2017 #8
If he resigns, he'll get a pardon from Pence, MineralMan Feb 2017 #11
Probably. But remember how controversial the Nixon pardon was. The Velveteen Ocelot Feb 2017 #14
That's true, but what may be coming out soon could be so bad MineralMan Feb 2017 #15
He needs to be given a face-saving reason to resign. AND, point out to him the "perks" of patricia92243 Feb 2017 #19
If we can impeach over a blow job ...surely we can impeach over ties to Russia. But hey I'll take a TrekLuver Feb 2017 #9
Republicans in Congress are not likely to be in the mood MineralMan Feb 2017 #10
Sounds good to me!!!! And we don't need every Republican to be a patriot..we just need some. TrekLuver Feb 2017 #12
They won't do it out of patriotism. MineralMan Feb 2017 #13
I disagree. There's already enough evidence to impeach him - business interests, Russia, etc. Vinca Feb 2017 #16
Resignation is a definite possibility. HassleCat Feb 2017 #18

kimbutgar

(21,148 posts)
1. What if he has a full blown out meltdown that looks insane
Sun Feb 19, 2017, 01:12 PM
Feb 2017

I can just see mouths open in stunned shock. i predict this might occur sooner rather than later. We just have to keep poking at him with sharp rhetoric sticks and larger and larger protests that he can't deny.

MineralMan

(146,308 posts)
4. If that happens, he'll get massive pressure to resign from
Sun Feb 19, 2017, 01:16 PM
Feb 2017

Republicans in Congress. I think he's close to that point now. After seeing him yesterday, and hearing him emit a lengthy, repetitive word salad at that rally, I think it won't take much to tip him over the line.

And there may be revelations this week about the Russian connection that could do it. It sounds to me like he's pushing this "fake news Enemy of the people" thing to try to get people to ignore what will be coming out in the news.

Comey's chat with Republican people in Congress and their utter silence afterwards seems indicative of some ugly stuff coming soon. The Republicans have not said a word about what they learned from Comey. Not a word.

NRaleighLiberal

(60,014 posts)
2. I don't think he has the attention span for the job and it will get (already is) boring for him
Sun Feb 19, 2017, 01:12 PM
Feb 2017

so though I certainly hope some miracle comes along, I think you're right.

VMA131Marine

(4,139 posts)
3. Nixon would have been removed...
Sun Feb 19, 2017, 01:14 PM
Feb 2017

...if he hadn't resigned. A conviction in the Senate would have made it much more difficult for Ford to issue a pardon as well. I don’t see Trump resigning under any circumstance. I'm not even sure he believes anything exists outside what he can see at a particular moment.

MineralMan

(146,308 posts)
6. Perhaps, but that was not something he or Congressional
Sun Feb 19, 2017, 01:18 PM
Feb 2017

Republicans were willing to test. He was convinced to resign by Republicans.

I have no trouble envisioning a resignation by Trump. He could decide to do so at any time, without warning. He is that fragile in reality, I believe.

 

yeoman6987

(14,449 posts)
17. The difference is both chambers were democratic
Sun Feb 19, 2017, 01:59 PM
Feb 2017

Not so with trump. I think they will give him plenty of benefit of the doubt.

 

truebluegreen

(9,033 posts)
7. "Resigned" is the most likely, and I hope it doesn't happen
Sun Feb 19, 2017, 01:20 PM
Feb 2017

for a year or so.

Truth is, Trump's delusional flailing is better than Pence's punitive Republican orthodoxy. We need to gum up the works--with Cheeto's help--until the mid-terms loom, and then oust as many pukes as possible. It is our only hope of surviving this imo. Ancillary bonus is the pukes are discredited for a generation for tacitly accepting this monster and his machinations. They are not able to hide their craven obedience to Big Money and Big Corporations.

We have to be able to draw a bright line of distinction though.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,693 posts)
8. Make him hate being President.
Sun Feb 19, 2017, 01:21 PM
Feb 2017

I'm pretty sure he already hates a lot of what presidents have to do every day, which is why he had to have another "campaign rally" - he wasn't getting enough ego gratification from that day-to-day grind. And it hasn't been going exactly as he wanted, either. As the owner of his businesses all he had to do is order somebody to do something and it would be done. Since he came into the job utterly ignorant of how government works, I'm sure he assumed he could do the same as president. He'd just run the government like a business.



But it's been less than a month and he's already been slapped down by the courts; he can't fill his cabinet positions because nobody but unqualified hacks want to work for him; he's being criticized by almost all media outlets besides Breitbart, Fox News and Stormfront; he's pissed off foreign leaders; citizens by the thousands are protesting everything he does, loudly and often; he and his minions are savagely lampooned every Saturday night; Baghdad Barbie has been banned from CNN; demands for investigations of his Russian connections are heating up; and the "serious" people are starting to breathe the word "impeachment."

SAD. UNFAIR.

Before long all but his most devoted mouth-breathing fans will get tired of his rallies, which will become increasingly poorly-attended and pathetic. And if he can't be adored every day, why be president at all? Isn't that why he wanted the job in the first place? And if we're lucky he'll resign. If we're really lucky he'll go to prison for espionage.

MineralMan

(146,308 posts)
11. If he resigns, he'll get a pardon from Pence,
Sun Feb 19, 2017, 01:27 PM
Feb 2017

just like Nixon did from Ford. That will probably be the demand from Trump. Easy peasy, really.

Frankly, I think it could happen almost any time now. We'll see, but we must keep the pressure on by blocking Trump's initiatives in federal court wherever and whenever possible.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,693 posts)
14. Probably. But remember how controversial the Nixon pardon was.
Sun Feb 19, 2017, 01:38 PM
Feb 2017

It probably cost Ford the election in 1976. "Historians believe the controversy was one of the major reasons Ford lost the election in 1976, an observation with which Ford agreed. In an editorial at the time, The New York Times stated that the Nixon pardon was a "profoundly unwise, divisive and unjust act" that in a stroke had destroyed the new president's "credibility as a man of judgment, candor and competence". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Ford

Pence would certainly have to take that history into consideration. I guess it would depend on what specific circumstances compel Trump's resignation, if that happens. If he is forced to quit because solid proof turns up that he was personally involved with the Russians' attempts to influence the election, pardoning him would probably cause even more outrage than the Nixon pardon. If he quits because he's bored and unhappy, it might not be so controversial because most people would just be glad to be rid of him. Not that Pence would be any sort of prize.

MineralMan

(146,308 posts)
15. That's true, but what may be coming out soon could be so bad
Sun Feb 19, 2017, 01:42 PM
Feb 2017

that simply surviving intact might become the primary goal. Ford did lose. So might Pence, if he pardons Trump, but that might be a better outcome than some others I can envision.

There's a lot more to sweep under the rug this time, I suspect. A lot more. I doubt Pence will be elected as President, ever. I suspect he knows that already. I truly think everything will be an attempt to salvage the situation with as little damage as possible to the Republicans. I think there will be a lot of damage, though.

We shall see.

patricia92243

(12,595 posts)
19. He needs to be given a face-saving reason to resign. AND, point out to him the "perks" of
Sun Feb 19, 2017, 03:33 PM
Feb 2017

being a past-president such as making the talk-circuit rounds where he can be adored and make some money in addition to pushing his product line.

He could even be a contributor on Fox, etc. All the wonderful things that await him need to be pointed out to him so that he will take his boredom and get out of politics.

I honestly and truly believe that if the right people handled this in a way that was flattering to his ego, we could be easily rid of him.

 

TrekLuver

(2,573 posts)
9. If we can impeach over a blow job ...surely we can impeach over ties to Russia. But hey I'll take a
Sun Feb 19, 2017, 01:21 PM
Feb 2017

resignation if need be...that's the least I'll hope for but the most I'm hoping for is criminal charges.

MineralMan

(146,308 posts)
10. Republicans in Congress are not likely to be in the mood
Sun Feb 19, 2017, 01:25 PM
Feb 2017

for an impeachment. Not because they like Trump, but because it would harm their own chances in 2018. If it comes to the end of the rope, they will pressure Trump to resign, much as they did to Nixon. That's assuming that Trump doesn't resign on his own accord, after a promise from Pence to pardon him.

And Pence would make that promise, I have no doubt. I remember Ford's pardoning speech for Nixon. There is precedent for such a thing.

Frankly, we won't see it coming, necessarily. If there is massive evidence of a Russian connection, which I think is likely after the complete silence after Comey's meeting with the Intelligence folks in Congress, the pressure to resign would be immediate and convincing, I'm sure.

Vinca

(50,271 posts)
16. I disagree. There's already enough evidence to impeach him - business interests, Russia, etc.
Sun Feb 19, 2017, 01:46 PM
Feb 2017

If the GOP didn't have the majority in Congress he would have already been impeached. We just need to bide our time. Eventually, he'll get around to pissing off the Republicans and then he'll be on shaky ground. You can't help but notice how presidential Pence has looked this weekend.

 

HassleCat

(6,409 posts)
18. Resignation is a definite possibility.
Sun Feb 19, 2017, 02:07 PM
Feb 2017

They can make up any phony reason they want. Hell, if they could fake the evidence to justify invading Iraq, a resignation is no big challenge. They can blame Obama! And they have Pence, whom they prefer anyway, waiting in the wings. It could be a big winner for them because they would ride in on a white horse and "...rescue the nation from this grave crisis..." blah, blah, blah. The only real obstacle would be Trump's ego, and I do think he would put up a public fight, in which case they would have to arrange for a debilitating illness or unfortunate accident.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»The odds are strongly aga...