Why is the attitude towards Bernie, 'stay out of the way if you're not going to join the party',..

[StubbornThings]

Instead of, 'you vote with the D's as much as anyone so why don't you help start winning again'?

Especially when the party needs many supporters of Bernie's movement to vote for D's in the future.

I think it's funny that yesterday a lot of people were hopeful that Perez made Ellison Deputy chair of the party to bring people together, when a lot of the people that wanted Ellison as the head of the DNC really have no interest in the Democratic party. They are Independents that think the two party has failed them. Uniting means nothing for these people because they are only interested in a movement that gets rid of the status quo. They are not interested in being brought into a system that they see as a failure unless the party starts to change for what they see as the greater good.

And, throwing a bone to Ellison will mean nothing to them.

I'm not saying I agree with them, or that a lot of them aren't wrong with their messaging. I'm just saying that these people, and there are a lot of them, are not interested in party unity because they're not interested in the party at all. They have moved on from the two-party system and are only interested in what they perceive as real change.

The Democrats don't have to change because of these people. It's there choice. But, if they want to start winning again they need to recognize that the outcome of yesterday will not help at all.

I know and work with a lot of these people (many that are under 35) so I here much of what I wrote above quite a bit.

[BannonsLiver]

1. Meh

Btw, are you one of "these people"?

[StubbornThings]

2. Don't agree or don't care?

[BannonsLiver]

3. Bored with the whining

[StubbornThings]

9. I think you're responding to the wrong OP then.

I'm trying to offer advice. If you want to ignore, fine.

BTW, whining is to continuing to blame people that are on your side because you blame them for your party loses. I'm suggesting that we work to bring these people back into the party, instead of pushing them away.

[BannonsLiver]

13. Nah, you're trying to keep 2016 alive

Why don't you take a cue from Ellison and move on. There's a war on.

[StubbornThings]

28. Not even close.

There are a large number of people, over 40% that voted in Democratic primary that are not interested in what the party is selling them.

My goal is to start winning again and I want to get these people to support that movement.

Everything I want is about the future. It has nothing to do with 2016.

[BannonsLiver]

31. You have a very interesting way of looking forward

[butdiduvote]

116. +1,000

[boston bean]

4. Ask him why he won't become a Democratic Party member?

[StubbornThings]

11. Why does it matter? Aren't we all trying to accomplish the same things?

What does it matter that he has a D next to his name?

[boston bean]

15. it matters. it matters to us who are members. It matters that we have someone

who puts his skin in the game as a member.

it matters a hell of a lot.

I don't give a shit if indies vote for democrats, I like that. I do however have a problem with independents thinking they can lob bombs from the sidelines and install people and policy without becoming a member.

So, it matters. It matters a lot.

[StubbornThings]

30. Does winning matter to you?

If it does, then why continue to fight those that can only help? This isn't a game where only members of my team should matter.

Party loyalty is weird.

[nini]

59. If you honestly believe that

Then work your heart out building your 3rd party. Why do you keep wanting to take over a group you do not agree with?

[aikoaiko]

49. It matters to *some* members of the party.

If Bernie were a bonafide member , he would still be hated for his words and impact by those members.

Case in point, he ran as Democrat in the primary and *some* members hated him.

[NanceGreggs]

139. And we remember why he "ran as a Democrat".

By his own words, it was because he needed the party's resources and the media attention he otherwise wouldn't have access to.

[OnDoutside]

54. 100% agree, what sort of message does that send to

Rank and file members of the Democratic Party, that you care not so much ? Bernie's a great man for criticizing the commitment of Democrats yet seems to have his own commitment issues !

IF it was a case that he stood for the Senate as an independent, and feels honor bound to remain as an independent until his re-election, then fine, but let him state that publicly. Otherwise it leaves a sour taste.

[WinkyDink]

63. You don't get it. If Party membership doesn't "matter," then WHY NOT JOIN??

[randome]

67. Especially when there is an upside to joining and no downside.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Birds are territorial creatures.
The lyrics to the songbird's melodious trill go something like this:
"Stay out of my territory or I'll PECK YOUR GODDAMNED EYES OUT!"[/center][/font][hr]

[Demsrule86]

5. Bernie is an independent...I wish he would become a Democrt.

He could certainly do much good...but for his own reasons, he won't. You can't have a say in a party that you don't belong to.

[StubbornThings]

14. Why? He wants the same things as you or I.

Making this into a sporting event is not helping us reach the goals that we all want.

[boston bean]

20. I'm registered a democrat. So, Bernie and I are not the same.

If its no big deal and he is one anyways, why won't he just join?

I'll tell you.. Because he doesn't like the party. And well... if one doesn't like the party, then don't join and be a party of one or two or however many. That is his perogative.

He doesn't get to dictate policy from the sidelines.

[StubbornThings]

32. Again. What is your goal?

Do you want to start winning again, or are you only interested in working with those that wear your jersey?

[boston bean]

33. pretty much spelled out in the party I belong to.

Yeah, I want to win. and I wish people would stop lobbing bombs from the outside.

You seem to think there is something wrong with being a democrat. i don't.

[randome]

35. We lost with Sanders' 'help' so you are proving the exact opposite of the point you want to make.

It's time for fresh thinking. Enough with the hero septuagenarians.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Birds are territorial creatures.
The lyrics to the songbird's melodious trill go something like this:
"Stay out of my territory or I'll PECK YOUR GODDAMNED EYES OUT!"[/center][/font][hr]

[Demsrule86]

51. It would send a message and help with unity.

And he and I are not on the same page always...I think getting rid of Dem donors in the age of United is foolish and could cost us elections...no one think alike all the time...but I do think Bernie votes with us most of the time...99%. If he thinks like us then why doesn't he join?

[WinkyDink]

65. Did you notice Bernie lost the nomination?

[randome]

6. Because he keeps trash-talking the Democratic Party.

He wants to be an Independent all his life, never part of a team, then so be it! But he needs to stop meddling in other parties!

Look at his track record. Hardly anyone in Congress supports him, only his votes. He supported Ellison and Ellison lost.

Sanders is not a Democrat! Why does he pretend to know what everyone else needs to do? If he was so smart, then why is he still on the sidelines yelling at our coaches?

He is our version of Paul Ryan. A handful of our own think he's some sort of genius when the reality is that he's just an ordinary bloke.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Birds are territorial creatures.
The lyrics to the songbird's melodious trill go something like this:
"Stay out of my territory or I'll PECK YOUR GODDAMNED EYES OUT!"[/center][/font][hr]

[StubbornThings]

18. 45% of the voters in the primary is A LOT more than a "handful of our own"

Rand Paul would give anything to have that kind of support.

And, this isn't about Bernie, or whether he's liked. It's about the people that support his positions that are no longer Democrats, and are now Independents. They won't care about the party unless it changes. You may not care what they think but if you the party to grow, you will need to figure out how to bring them back in.

My goal is start winning again.

We need to do whatever it takes. And, that includes swallowing our pride and working with Bernie and his supporters.

[randome]

25. "Whatever it takes" does not mean listening to someone that Congress does not support.

His trash-talking has amounted to exactly nothing yet he seems fixated on saying the same stupid things over and over again like a broken record.

He's an Independent because he likes the privilege it bestows on him. Makes him feel good when he looks in the mirror.

To hell with him. His votes are his to give, but he needs to stop injecting himself in other peoples' business. Democrats will handle the Democratic Party from now on. Sanders' star is fading quickly.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Birds are territorial creatures.
The lyrics to the songbird's melodious trill go something like this:
"Stay out of my territory or I'll PECK YOUR GODDAMNED EYES OUT!"[/center][/font][hr]

[Kentonio]

34. What a total crock

The party has just had its most brutal and humiliating loss in living memory just 4 damn months ago. Yet the answer from people like you is that we should tell half our support to go suck it, and carry on making the same stupid mistakes that put Donald fucking Trump in the White House.

Not happening.

[randome]

37. And we lost with Sanders' help so what does the evidence tell you about his effectiveness?

It's elementary.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Birds are territorial creatures.
The lyrics to the songbird's melodious trill go something like this:
"Stay out of my territory or I'll PECK YOUR GODDAMNED EYES OUT!"[/center][/font][hr]

[Kentonio]

41. The key lesson is the long declining support for the party long before Bernie ran.

His campaign was a reaction to the direction of the party, not some radical new direction of its own.

If the lesson you take from Bernies campaign is just 'he lost so he doesn't matter' then you're missing the elephant in the room.

[randome]

44. You are only seeing the elephant because Sanders has hypnotized you.

He's old and in the way. He needs to join up or shut up.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Birds are territorial creatures.
The lyrics to the songbird's melodious trill go something like this:
"Stay out of my territory or I'll PECK YOUR GODDAMNED EYES OUT!"[/center][/font][hr]

[Kentonio]

47. Ageism AND a total disregard for the opinions of 45% of our voters

Impressive..

[StubbornThings]

124. Yep. Amazing, isn't it. nt

[Else You Are Mad]

112. We also lost...

Because of establishment Democrats that believe they are above reproach. While the party fights among itself, the Republicans are gaining larger strongholds.

We need to put this behind us and realize that there are two sides with the same goals. We need to change our ways or 2020 will be our last election as a national party.

[StubbornThings]

36. I care what the voters think. Not Congress.

And, I don't think you know what trash talking means. Or, maybe you do. Can you give examples of Bernie trash talking?

Wow. The rest of your post is just sad. I feel sorry for you.

[randome]

38. Someone who is not supported by Congress has little influence.

Like I said, I welcome his votes whenever they coincide with the policies of the Democratic Party but he truly needs to join up or shut up about how to remake our party into his image.

Just who the hell does he think he is?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Birds are territorial creatures.
The lyrics to the songbird's melodious trill go something like this:
"Stay out of my territory or I'll PECK YOUR GODDAMNED EYES OUT!"[/center][/font][hr]

[Kentonio]

45. Someone who 45% of our voters feel represent their opinion

More than the parties preferred candidate did. That's who.

[truebluegreen]

71. I don't think Berniecrats are the ones blinded by hero worship.

[truebluegreen]

69. Yup.

And of course that's 45% of Democrats plus a whole bunch of people who aren't registered Democrats but could be if they thought the Party represented them.

[randome]

43. He needs to stick to what he does best: preserving his comfortable position as armchair quarterback.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/commentary/ct-bernie-sanders-versus-democrats-20160518-story.html

“We are taking on virtually the entire Democratic establishment,” Sanders proclaims.

“The Democratic Party has to reach a fundamental conclusion: Are we on the side of working people or big-money interests?” he asks.

“The Democratic Party up to now has not been clear about which side they are on on the major issues facing this country,” he announces.

This was Ralph Nader's argument in 2000: There isn't much difference between the two parties. It produced President George W. Bush. Sanders said at the start of his campaign that he wouldn't do what Nader did, because there is a difference between the parties.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Birds are territorial creatures.
The lyrics to the songbird's melodious trill go something like this:
"Stay out of my territory or I'll PECK YOUR GODDAMNED EYES OUT!"[/center][/font][hr]

[Demsrule86]

52. I think that number is exagerrated.

[StubbornThings]

125. He won 22 of the 50+ state primaries.

You can deny it all you want, but a VERY large % of the Democratic voter preferred Bernie.

[vdogg]

7. Not following your first paragraph.

Most of the people from the Sanders camp wanted Ellison, not Perez, but you state the exact opposite. Was this intentional?

[Starry Messenger]

8. Because it's like not joining your union

But constantly whining about it anyway.

[boston bean]

12. good analogy.

[StubbornThings]

21. Kind of like whining about Bernie constantly.

My OP offers suggestions to start winning again.

What are your ideas?

[Starry Messenger]

27. No, it's pointing out the guy whining is all talk

Join your union, be a part of the process. Or don't, but at a certain point the people in the union are going to stop listening to someone who can't be arsed to join.

[WinkyDink]

68. Bernie lost. How will that be "winning again"?

[DanTex]

10. Why doesn't Bernie join the party?

Does he think it's not good enough for him? Does he not share our values? Does he think joining the party would hurt his brand?

It's a legitimate question.

[StubbornThings]

39. Why does it matter what jersey he wears.

If he has the same goals, better than many Democrats in Congress, why should anyone of us care what he puts next to his name. If the Democrats can work with him to achieve the things that are important to all of us then why not work with him.

Similar to what he did when he supported Hillary in the general.

[DanTex]

66. In some ways it doesn't, in other ways it does.

Yes, the Dems can work with him even if he's not a Dem. In fact, they already are doing that and have been doing that for a long time.

But it is a little curious that he won't actually join the party, particularly after using the party's resources to help his bid for the presidency. I can understand why it rubs some Democrats the wrong way.

Why do you think he doesn't join the party?

[WinkyDink]

70. Then let him wear OURS. SEE HOW THAT ARGUMENT WORKS?

[StubbornThings]

95. No. That's a terrible argument for me. I don't care what label you or anyone wears.

The only thing I care about is if they are on the right side of policy.

[DURHAM D]

16. Is this opposite day?

"a lot of the people that wanted Perez as the head of the DNC really have no interest in the Democratic party"

Check your talking points guide - you got this backward.

[Kolesar]

22. Funny. I crafted the same comment while you were posting yours

Let's keep them both up!

[StubbornThings]

26. Thanks. Fixed it. nt

[Kolesar]

17. ...people that wanted Perez as the head of the DNC really have no interest in the Democratic party.

"... They are Independents"

Sorry , don't follow.

[StubbornThings]

24. Those Independents want to start beating Republicans.

They don't care how that happens. If it's through the Democratic party, then fine. If they feel the Democratic party isn't helping then they will look somewhere else.

Does that help?

[Demsrule86]

53. The Democratic Party is the only way to beat Republicans...

The Green traitors are pathetic losers...so if you want to win the Democratic Party is your only avenue.

[Ligyron]

79. It's only an observation and speculation

but if we had a Parliamentary system, a lot of this Dem/Ind issue would be moot.

Yeah, not gonna happen I know, but still...

[Kolesar]

122. Supporters of Perez were traditional Democratic Party types

And the supporters of Ellison were more "at the periphery" and not deep in the party. What I mean by the latter is Sanders people. Still confused

[NotThisTime]

19. I don't have that opinion at all, I think a lot of people don't. We are all fighting for the same

cause, no matter whether we call ourselves D's or I's. Please, let's work together or we'll lose again and we will keep losing.

[StubbornThings]

23. Exactly. That's might whole point.

Sad that so many are not interested in having that discussion.

[NRaleighLiberal]

29. .

[StubbornThings]

40. Like losing or don't care? nt

[NRaleighLiberal]

42. I don't like looking back and refighting old wars. For me it is about democratic principles -

not concerned with the who, the personalities - only with the what and how.

[Chasstev365]

46. Because many here on DU still blame Bernie for Hillary not becoming president!

They can't admit it, but it's true!

[Demsrule86]

55. Hey I admit it...I think the divisive primary cost Hillary the election with a little help from

Comey and the Russians. I posted it yesterday...in my journal. That being said, time to move on...and look to the future.

[Chasstev365]

85. I agree 100 %!

And I don't want either of them to run again in 2020!

[Demsrule86]

92. I agree...time to move into the future...not live in the past.

[StubbornThings]

96. That's exactly what my OP is doing...looking at the future? nt

[Else You Are Mad]

114. Also..

Hillary had awful advisors that led her to ignore battleground states -- which cost her he election as well. There were local parties begging for Hillary to come to their state and to stop courting moderate, suburban Republicans because it was hurting the down ticket.

She didn't listen and I blame her advisors and those in her campaign.

[butdiduvote]

121. I agree

I think without any of those things, we would have Hillary as president. And I think being so divisive during a year when Donald Trump was looking to be the nominee on the other side was privileged, back-stabbing bullshit. I'll never get an apology from Bernie or his house burners for making my life as a woman hell under this administration, so I don't care about their feelings either.

[StubbornThings]

134. You blame the guy who was out of the picture after the convention for her losing to a baffoon.

I think you need to re-evaluate things.

The Democrats have been getting their asses kicked for years. It's more than just Hillary or Bernie.

Yet, here we are watching the Democrats blame each other and doing the same things that keep them from winning.

[butdiduvote]

135. Hahah. Out of the picture.

That's why I was hearing people talk about writing in Bernie months later. I think you need to admit you prioritized weakening our first ever female major party nominee because you didn't get your way. Fuck off. I look more down upon people like you than I do some of the Trumpanzees. Find someone else to patronize. I'm reporting you for trying to refight the primaries endlessly and moving on to talking to people actually worth my time.

[Lotusflower70]

129. Yes indeed

And many blame Hillary for Bernie being denied. But neither version of the blame game helps us. The divide on the DNC brings it up all over again. We have to get rid of the anger and negativity and move forward.

[NurseJackie]

48. Assuming that this observation of yours is accurate...

They are Independents that think the two party has failed them. Uniting means nothing for these people because they are only interested in a movement that gets rid of the status quo. They are not interested in being brought into a system that they see as a failure unless the party starts to change for what they see as the greater good.

Then they are doomed to failure and being perpetually marginalized.

Their quest for "perfection" is the enemy of the good. These are the same ones who would raze their own home because of a leaky faucet, claiming that "we must destroy to rebuild" rather than keeping everything of value and making improvements and adjustments where necessary.

[Demsrule86]

58. Great post Nurse...right on the money.

The Democratic party is the only vehicle that can stop Trump and the GOP right now today...and every progressive goodie ever given to this nation came from the Democratic Party. The Green traitors give us terrible losses...as do those who insist on purity. And can I say to those who yearn for multiple parties that the UK has multiple parties, and yet they have that troll Theresa May. She literally was not elected. There has been conservative minority rule in the UK for years.

[StubbornThings]

97. They are not looking for perfection. They just want someone that represents them to win.

And, every one of the people I know like the person I descrive voted for Hillary in the general.

[NurseJackie]

111. Well...

They are not looking for perfection.

Yes they are. Or course they are.

They just want someone that represents them to win.

That's a rather selfish viewpoint, in my opinion. There are many more things to consider.

And, every one of the people I know like the person I descrive voted for Hillary in the general.

Anecdotal. Does not take into consideration the people you don't personally know. The fact that people you know voted for Hillary doesn't change the fact that there are many who (intentionally or not) are doing things that weaken our party.

[nini]

56. Nothing will please the hardcore bernie bros

I honestly believe the unreasonable loud mouths just want to be contrary. This does not apply to those who preferred bernie but voted Dem anyway. Its the ones who can't shut the hell up and actually put in the hard work it takes to work as a team.

They want their way exactly the way they want it. No compromising or sense of the reality of todays political realities. The behavior is causing more problems than helping. They don't seem to understand you simply cannot get anything done in this country you have to compromise at times. It sucks but it is reality.

If they are right and are the majority they should have no problem building the Independent party dont you think? Why would theh even need the Democrats in the first place? If they're really legit that would be what their revolution's goal really was. But they're not, they're a mix of trolls and brats.

Bernie himself has a bit of trump in him. Constantly spouting the 'my way or the highway' type crap. I was a big bernie supporter for a long time until this last election cycle. I saw things in him that turned my stomach - the pope fiasco alone showed me he is no better than most polticians. I agree with most of his views but he is not the only answer and quite frankly he is making things more difficult to work together on.

[StubbornThings]

98. My post was not really about Bernie.

It's about winning in the future and not pushing away those (a very large percentage of Democratic voters) that agree with us on policy.

[nini]

104. Then perhaps you shouldn't have slipped his name in there

[Vinca]

57. It's time to put hurt feelings aside and unite to oust Trump and his gang.

If we don't, this might be the end of democracy in this country . . . seriously. They've got people in charge of departments like EPA and Education for the sole purpose of dismantling the department. Bernie's on board and that should send a signal to his supporters.

[StubbornThings]

99. Both sides need to get on board. Not just one. nt

[Iggo]

60. You know why. And this is not helpful. They're never going to get over it. So just leave it alone.

Peace.

[NotThisTime]

94. Exactly, just freaking stop. It is over, work on getting the people you can, it is that simple.

You think in 4 years these people are going to be happy with what has happened? NO they are not. So quit whining about the few and go get them to vote their interest. Arguments like this does nothing to help the D's because people who preferred Bernie but voted for Hillary will also continue to feel marginalized. You just don't see it. Stop the complaining and get to work.

[StubbornThings]

100. What are you talking about. Get over what? nt

[WinkyDink]

61. "They have moved on from the two-party system...." AKA, losers.

[JTFrog]

62. He lost me at Tad Devine.

Especially given everything that has gone down with Russia.

[democratisphere]

64. Gag order.

[FSogol]

72. Divide, divide, divide....

Not fooling anyone.

[Iggo]

73. Word.

[StubbornThings]

102. Please explain.

I don't understand what you mean.

The whole point of my post was to not push people away.

[SidDithers]

74. Welcome to DU...

Sid

[QC]

75. Have you joined the Democratic Party?

If not, why not? It's very, very, very important, you know.

[JTFrog]

77. Unlike Bernie, he probably would if he could. nt

[StubbornThings]

103. I've been around since 2004.

But thanks.

[SidDithers]

137. Yeah, that was obvious...nt

Sid

[Sunlei]

76. thats how republicans trained* some people to think to divide the D party.

Some don't seem to understand, Sanders ran as a D so he would NOT win as independent and hurt the actual General election.

* and continue to post these kind of topics

[JTFrog]

78. But he did hurt the actual election. That's what spoilers do.

He continued the divide beyond any reasonable amount of time.

No matter how many times you click your heels, those facts are never going to change.

[Sunlei]

81. no he didn't, he helped Hillary.

[JTFrog]

83. LOL!

But her SPEECHES!!!!!!!!!!!!! She is the ultimate establishment corrupt politician!!!!!

LOCK HER UP!!!!



Give me a fucking break. That helped no one but Trump. Facts are facts.

[Sunlei]

84. that's bagger speak, he never said that.

[JTFrog]

86. No that was BoB speak.

He drummed it up, they drove it home.

And Trump tried to capitalize on it.

[Sunlei]

88. trump did say he wanted to get rid of the uber-wealthy-donors, (drain the swamp) but that was a big

fat lie wasn't it? Republicans always lie for votes, always.

Sanders & Clinton never lied for votes, and still don't lie today. Sanders is still a senator & still hard at work for us.

[Cha]

87. Agree wholeheartedly Frog

[leftofcool]

80. Oh for cryin' out loud!!!!!!!!!!!!

[StubbornThings]

105. What part of it is wrong.

I'm assuming you read past the first two sentences.

[nini]

82. Ask yourself this? Why don't we hear Elizabeth Warren spouting the crap Sanders does?

Is she a sellout too? I would put her credentials up against Bernies any day of the week. So maybe it's not the 'liberal' views you guys only think apply to Sanders that is the real problem here.

She puts it into hard work and actually getting stuff done. Bernie likes the attention and the sound of his own voice it seems.

[StubbornThings]

106. My post isn't really about Sanders, but maybe you didn't read the whole thing.

[nini]

115. But it is

You assume Democrats do not all have liberal values bernie does - which is also wrong. The Sanders wing did NOT invent those views. If you've got a couple hours I'll tell you about my parents and grandparents fight for unions, the poor, racial justice, etc etc etc.. I was helping Bobby Kennedy's campaign when I was 11 years old. I know what real values are.

What is forgotten is this country was gradually pulled to the far right and brainwashed by the religious right. They didn't' achieve that overnight either. This is so much more complicated than just wanting liberal ideas put in place and thinking it'll happen over night. WE ALL want that - but if you ignore the political climate of the entire populace you will get no where.

[StubbornThings]

126. Ok. But 45% of the primary voter wants the party to go in a different direction.

It's alright if you disagree with them, but it's downright stupid to push them away, as many feel is an okay thing to do.

[bravenak]

138. You don't know what 45% wanted. Many of them happily voted for Hillary

[csziggy]

89. If Bernie wants to change the Democratic Party he needs to join it for longer than a campaign

He cannot have as much influence over the party if he is not a member of it. If he joined the Democratic Party and convinced his followers to do the same, they could move the party far to the left.

By staying out of the Democratic Part except when it benefits him, Bernie Sanders is keeping a large segment of the far left out of the party and that lets the party drift more to the right.

And if as you say "a lot of the people that wanted Ellison as the head of the DNC really have no interest in the Democratic party" then I am fucking glad that Ellison lost for the same reason I am glad Bernie lost in the primaries. If the main supporters of those two are not interested in the Democratic Party and building party unity then they should not be in it. They are serving the interests of the Republican Party and the people who want to deconstruct the social network and the parts of the government that protects people from the corporations.

Those are the people who are serving Steve Bannon's goals even as they think they are going for something loftier. If they don't or can't see that, then they are as willfully ignorant as the Trump followers many here make fun of.

The Bernie Sanders' followers who believed the right wing lies about Hillary Clinton and who refused to vote for her gave us this shit stain we now have squatting in the White House. They gave us Steve Bannon and all the Russian owned traitors now in control of the maggots in the government. They gave us the most corporate owned Cabinet in the history of the US government.

And they did it while claiming that Hillary Clinton was "owned" by the establishment and corporations.

If Bernie Sanders had come out after November 8 and said he was going to stay in the Democratic Party to build unity to fight against the Trump administration and the massive control of the Republicans, I would still respect him. Instead he dropped back out of the party when it no longer served his purposes and his followers continue to tear apart the Democratic Party.

So I have no more respect for Sanders or his followers. They cannot really care about the country because their failure to unite under one party will keep Trump and the Republicans in charge and allow the destruction of what has been built to protect the average person.


So if you are right about what the Sanders followers feel, then FUCK Bernie Sanders and his toadies. May they burn in hell.

[StubbornThings]

107. Again, my post isn't really about Sanders.

It's about pushing away those that supported him...45% of the Democratic primary voters.

[csziggy]

110. Sanders could use his influence to ask his followers to work with the Democratic Party

The way he normally does.

But I get the impression that Sanders would rather retain his followers' worship rather than steer them to ways to have more influence over the future of the country. Splintering the Democratic Party only serves the purposes of the right wing Republicans - and that is what the Sanders followers are doing.

As I said - they are as willfully ignorant as the Trump followers if they cannot see this.

[StubbornThings]

127. First of all, Bernie's supporters don't worship him.

They like him because he's on the right side of issues and he's not seen as a party hack. And, they don't need him or his influence.

And, are you seriously suggesting that the Bernie "supporters" should just go along with a party that's been getting their asses kicked for years and not suggest change? And, why are you only blaming the Sanders supporters for the splintering in the party? Hillary and the establishment supporters are not willing to budge. Why isn't it also their fault?

If my team has the worst record in the league why wouldn't I expect others to blame those players and coaches that keep losing? It makes no sense.

[csziggy]

136. What I have seen is that they are tearing into the Democratic Party more than Trump

And the Republicans. Apparently the Bernie supporters would rather not have a strong party to fight the Republican abuses - which are directly contrary to what Bernie Sanders has stood for - and would rather keep re-fighting a lost cause.

Bernie Sander will not be president of the United States. He took his chance and he lost. But his followers STILL will not give up the slim chance he might still run again. They STILL criticize the Democratic Party and the last Democratic candidate for president.

At this point I don't believe that Hillary Clinton will be president of the United States. I am ready to move forward, to try to rebuild the party and include everyone who wants to fight against the Republicans and their boy-king Trump. But what I see here from Bernie supporters is continual rehashing of their old grievances.

During the GE Hillary and the Democratic Party took up many of the issues that Bernie Sanders supported. Why do you Bernie supporters still claim that they were "not willing to budge?" That is a LIE - they did incorporate the issues important to Bernie Sanders and his supporters. And guess what - unless they got 100% of their dream ticket that was not good enough. Too many of them took their ball and voted for third party candidates and GAVE the fucking election to Donald Fucking Trump.

Unless Bernie Sanders pushes his followers to JOIN the Democratic Party I see absolutely no reason the party should cater to people who are not party members. If they are members of the party, then they can have a say in what the party stands for. So long as they are outside the party they should not dictate the agenda.

[alarimer]

90. Democrats LOVED Joe Lieberman, though he ditched the party when he could.

And pretty much stabbed them in the back at every opportunity. Nearly derailed the ACA, if I recall correctly.

So, it's pretty fucking hilarious to me that Democrats cheered Joe Lieberman when he ditched the party after LOSING and then continue to bitch about Bernie Sanders. I'll take a principled independent any day of the week, over a weasel like Lieberman.

Are you going to be happy when Joe Manchin or Heidi Heitkamp (nominally Democrats) vote against SS or the ACA? Because they surely cannot be counted on a principled vote when it matters. Stuff like Cabinet nominees aren't that important, really, but the ACA repeal is coming up and that vote will be a squeaker. Any Republican "reform" will, of course, suck, and I'm counting on all Democrats and independents to vote against it. But I think Manchin and Heitkamp will ultimately vote WITH the Republicans to gut the ACA. Maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised.

More and more registered voters in this country are not affiliated with either party. If Tom Perez, Keith Ellison, Elizabeth Warren and, yes, Bernie Sanders can change what it means to me "establishment", I think it might lead to reversing that trend. I actually don't think Perez is as "establishment" as most in the media seem to think. Sure, maybe relatively speaking, compared to the other candidates in the DNC race, but considering his career, he doesn't seem all that different from Ellison. So I'm okay with this.

[pnwmom]

91. That is NOT what the election of Perez meant.

Why do some people whose candidate lost the primaries by 4 million votes feel entitled to have their choice of DNC chair?

Perez and Ellison both had great records. Perez won. And Bernie says the contest wasn't rigged, and we should move forward together. Why aren't his supporters listening to him?

[LuvLoogie]

93. Beyonce knows why...

[lapucelle]

108. He stokes a divisive media/Republican narrative.

It's inadvertent, but extremely unhelpful.

[ucrdem]

118. I was gonna say because we're feeling the burn

but you said it much better



p.s. many feel the same way.

[butdiduvote]

113. Idk. My attitude toward Bernie is "Stay out of the way unless you're gonna help the party."

[LovingA2andMI]

117. Again, the "Deputy Chair" Position Does Not Exist....It Never Did....Ever....

Bylaws are amazing things and 'new positions' are not created by sayings -- they are voted upon, then written in things called Bylaws....

[ucrdem]

119. Unless and until he address voting rights and election integrity head-on

and not just more sideways sniping at the Clintons he's really not doing anything useful.

[LexVegas]

120. Bernies about Bernie. nt

[MyNameGoesHere]

123. Independents muddy the water

between my Democratic party, which has in my lifetime represented my beliefs and the moderate Republicans. I prefer to swim in clear, clean water. You can see the sharks that way.

[Rex]

130. Because you are hearing a minority voice's opinion on Bernie.

80% of DU was for Bernie at one time, those you hear now complaining are the minority voice. So don't take much of what they say as canon since they don't represent the party as a whole.

[StubbornThings]

132. I hear ya.

[Rex]

133. I voted for HRC, but this place was huge for Bernie.

I'm sure some will pretend otherwise.

[Adrahil]

140. He wants to have his cake and eat it too...

He wants to remain "independent" while influencing the party.

Commit, FFS! If you CARE about the Democratic party, and it's direction, JOIN IT. AND STICK WITH IT.

If not, that's fine, but stay out of our business.