Get Ready To Pay $60,000 Per Annum For Relative's Long Term Care.

[TheMastersNemesis]

If you have a disabled relative or aging relative get ready to pay for long term care. With the end of Medicaid there will be no other option. Plus nursing homes will start to discharge residents from nursing home to their relatives as soon as Ryan gets his way.

The Ryan plan will pretty much end Medicaid and long term care in the states. And nursing homes will close as well. Few people can afford the $60,000 to $72,000 per year for care. Plus many seniors might even lose their health care as well.

RYAN IS PSYCHOPATHIC PIG. GOD DAMN AND CURST THAT BASTARD AND HIS WHOLE FAMILY As well as GOPPERS who support this atomic bomb on the country.

People must UNDERSTAND that this bill is like an asteroid hitting the country. IT IS EVIL, BAD, MURDEROUS, ETC ETC ETC.

[AJT]

1. In Wisconsin the average per month for nursing homes

is $10,000.

[George II]

24. Same thing in the Northeast - more than $120K per year.

[n2doc]

2. The real GOP plan-Each family is a death panel

Stick Granny out in the snow.

[redwitch]

58. I will be my own death panel.

I can't put this on my kids. Before I go I plan to make it mighty uncomfortable for these bastards.

[LoisB]

3. "nursing homes will start to discharge residents from nursing home to their relatives

and those without relatives will no doubt be simply tossed onto the sidewalks or dropped off at the nearest emergency room on skid row.

[dalton99a]

9. People will die in the gutter like in India.

[Ilsa]

29. Elderly people will be kept at home, die in accidents at home, or

from wandering outside, or accidentally burning down the house.

Others will have major accidents from which doctors will turn in family caregivers for neglect. There won't be any place to remove them to.

Family members will be exhausted from working, taking care of their kids, and their parents.

[manicraven]

38. So true! My elderly ex-mother-in-law (MIL) was trying to light cigarettes, but she was actually

lighting various paper objects on fire. She kept falling down, too, and my ex-father-in-law (FIL) could barely lift her as it's pretty tough to get someone up off the floor when they're limp. He couldn't even take a shower or go to the grocery store without problems or feeling extremely worried. He hired a nurse to come in a couple times a week, but she was unable to handle MIL as she had become very defiant and paranoid due to advancing dementia. She got progressively worse and finally had to be placed in a facility. MIL did rally for a brief time as they were able to get her walking and eating at a table and controlled her hygiene, but she did overall steadily decline and recently passed away after only a few months in the facility. It was an agonizing, stressful, exhausting situation for my FIL.

There will be real life consequences to this terrible action by the GOP/trump. I wonder if the trumpsters will ever realize they're getting LESS from the trump and the GOP with the repeal of the ACA and not better as trump claims?

[Ilsa]

54. I'm so sorry.

Sadly, your story will be repeated by others over and over ten thousand times and more.

[manicraven]

56. And in the future, people without means won't be able to have nursing home care, no

matter how tired they are or how dangerous the senior with dementia has become to live with, etc.

[NickB79]

75. My 88-yr old grandmother had to enter a nursing home last year because of dementia

She was still living on the family farm alone, going into the basement several times a day to stoke the old wood-burning stove to fend off our Minnesota winters. She's blind in one eye and surrendered her driver's license several years ago. She spilled boiling water on her foot while cooking a few years ago and was scalded so badly she needed a skin graft. Her hoarding intensified, and she started leaving rotten food around the house. God knows if she was actually eating it.

She started to have difficulty remembering people, and thought she still had chores to do. She'd wander out to the barn to help my uncles milk the cows, and slip and fall in the process. She began to believe my grandfather was still alive, just out plowing the fields or baling hay when she couldn't find him. The entire family was convinced one more year there, and we'd find her frozen in a snowback one day.

[exboyfil]

4. And no "reporter" ever asks

Ryan and the gang this question. It is incredibly frustrating. I am hoping to catch up to my own GOP Congressman and Senators someday and ask the question. Here in Iowa we have a filial responsibility law.

My grandma received nearly $500,000 from Medicaid in her nine year stay at a nursing home. My mom, a Trump voter, when informed of this fact said that she had paid taxes for it.

I got mine, f-ck you, goes everywhere. Well I am going to be damn sure to offer the same level of care and concern my mom did for her mom with her when the time comes. She is in Florida, and I plan to never live in the same state as her. I will not sign anything. I will not make arrangements.

[rurallib]

51. Just wrote about filial responsibility last week

My MIL has suddenly had to go to a nursing home. My BIL is severely handicapped and will probably need to be in a nursing home or group home soon.

My republican SIL was cursing Branstad for his skimming of 10% off the top for his buddies. Should have seen her when I explained what Ryan had in store. She said they couldn't do that. I said, just wait - this was Saturday. No doubt she heard about Ryan's plan this week.

[MineralMan]

5. My wife's late mother was paying about $7000 per month

for the memory care unit where she lived. If it hadn't been for her late husband's pension money still coming in, she'd have run out before she died. It was something we were really starting to figure out how to manage when she passed away at age 88.

It's something almost nobody is prepared for.

[oasis]

6. Heartless. Just to funnel more cash to the richest Americans. nt

[pnwmom]

7. No, more like $100K.

[Friend or Foe]

8. Two words

Soylent Green

[RKP5637]

77. This will likely be their solution, food for the poor, and solutions to old age. n/t

[mahatmakanejeeves]

10. Long term care is not covered by health insurance, AFAIK.

It's certainly not covered by Federal health insurance. If you want it, you have to buy LTC insurance separately. Yes, it is expensive.

[DURHAM D]

12. Medicaid pays.

The OP specifically mentions people on medicaid.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

13. Everyone? Or are there some conditions? Thanks. NT

[mopinko]

15. it's means tested.

since it is so expensive, few are found to have the means.
tho many arrange their money in such a way as to be found w/o means as well.

[DURHAM D]

17. Everyone who qualifies for Medicaid.

To qualify your cash needs to be down to $2,000.

My aunt is in assisted living and on Medicaid. Her children pay nothing toward her care but the state taps her bank account for most of her SS payment. It isn't that much and because of that most assisted living facilities have a pretty small quota of allowed Medicaid patients.

Also, one of her children lives in her house and Medicaid has a lien on it and when they pass or move on SS gets the proceeds from a sale.

[Ilsa]

31. Yes, more likely the state is picking up the bill, and

when she passes, the state will put a lien on her property to grab the net proceeds.

They might "look back" five years (or more or less) to see if she made any large transfers of wealth during that time to save something for heirs. If she did, the state could go after that money from the recipient.

[marybourg]

49. Not true for a married couple where one needs

nursing home care. Then the amount, which varies by state, is about $120,000.

I thought only the Medicaid expansion was being done away with under chumpcare (I think I like that one best now), not the original Medicaid which has been in effect since forever. Am I wrong? Is it all going away?

[DURHAM D]

67. You are correct - one spouse gets to isolate their funds

up to a certain amount. I think it is $119,000 where I live.

As I understand it Ryan wants to get rid of all medicaid, including aid to seniors that need nursing home care.

[LuckyLib]

16. It does. And it often covers seniors and the disabled who have no

other means of income (other than social security). When those folks land back at their family home, to homes already stressed by income and/or employment issues, the shit will hit the fan. It won't be pretty.

[DURHAM D]

18. That is true. nt

[yeoman6987]

27. Many are buying long term insurance now. If you can swing it, everyone should.

[csziggy]

41. But you have to plan far ahead on long term care insurance

My mother in law paid for a policy starting not long after I married. When she got the policy it was supposed to be excellent coverage - but she never reviewed it or how much it covered.

Last year when she needed to go into a nursing home and then into an assisted living facility, the family was startled to find out that her "excellent" coverage only paid about $50 a day. Maybe in the late 1970s that would have paid for a decent facility but not in 2016!

After the facility sent her back to the hospital three times for preventable illnesses she decided to go home where a brother in law had been helping take care of her for the last ten plus years. When she went back in the hospital on New Year's Eve we were all worried she'd be going through the same cycle of nursing home, assisted living, hospital.

Unfortunately the doctors realized there was nothing more they could do for her and recommended hospice care. Less than a day later she passed away.

The moral is - if you buy long term care insurance, you HAVE to review the amounts on a regular basis. Healthcare costs continuously go up and if you don't increase your coverage you may not have enough by the time you need it.

[yeoman6987]

42. Yes. That's a shame though. Although we have to review auto and life insurance

so might as well add that to the list of reviews. Good point.

[TNNurse]

44. We started when we retired

I have begun to wonder if it will really work or they will screw that up, too.

[yeoman6987]

45. Like a DU'er mentioned above, please review it every few years so the cost per day goes up

To cover inflation. I think it was brilliant you bought this.

[TNNurse]

47. We do not have children and feel responsible for ourselves.

Not that children feel responsible for their parents, oh many do but there are some awful stories out there.

[RainAndMoreRain]

11. See Paul Ryan ManSplaining His Plan On CNN? He Left Out Most Stuff

Of course.

[jmg257]

14. How does the Ryan plan end medicaid?

[manicraven]

43. Check out the article at the following link, but basically

The plan includes sweeping changes to Medicaid that would end the Medicaid expansion's extra payments to states, effectively ending the program. It also ends traditional Medicaid, replacing the current funding structure with per capita caps.


http://familiesusa.org/blog/2017/02/house-republicans-health-care-outline-would-eviscerate-medicaid

Next up are Medicare and Social Security with the ever eager-trump ready to sign away our safety net.

[colorado_ufo]

19. These are the real death panels.

When these severely ill patients get discharged home - especially with Alzheimers - all the families will be able to do is severely medicate them to control them. The average house is not set up to care for these special needs. And what about the two parent working household with young children? Who will care for the elderly when it takes two incomes to keep a roof over the family's head.

Who?

[DeminPennswoods]

20. More like 10k per month for nursing home care

That's 120k a year. What most middle class families do is use an estate lawyer to transfer Mom or Dad's money to an irrevocable trust that removes it from being considered an asset by medicaid. Pensions, IRAs and irrevocable trusts and the primary residence are exempt from the asset test, but there's a 5 year "look back" period so if any money was transferred to a trust during that time, it could be subject to being counted later and "repaid" to medicaid. Mom and/or Dad might still have to "spend down" some money to reach the maximum they're allowed to have in assets which I think is right now around 8k.

I'm sure most children expect to inheirit the money their parents saved over a lifetime, but if medicaid goes away, they can forget that plan. The alternative is to take care of Mom and/or Dad themselves, which is very stressful.

[TexasBushwhacker]

52. But shouldn't a person's savings go to pay for their care?

Isn't that what retirement savings is for? IF the person has savings, are we obliged to use taxpayer funded Medicaid just so they can leave more money to their kids? That doesn't really seem fair either.

[dawg]

66. The patient's money is used up first, currently, and then Medicaid kicks in.

Without the Medicaid safety net, however, children would be forced to pay from their own funds if they want their parents to be cared for.

This would quickly bankrupt most families with a nursing home patient.

[Cal Carpenter]

68. This is my scenario. My mom is in a nursing home with Alzheimers

My dad took care of her at their home before she was moved into a skilled nursing home. He found a specialist attorney who made sure the money was arranged in a way (family trust) that he doesn't have to blow through every penny and sell his home so she can get care paid for with Medicaid.

My dad, my sister and I would all be bankrupt by now if it weren't for Medicaid. And by other measures, we are relatively middle class.

[DeminPennswoods]

72. It does, but certain income is exempt

There's a formula for what kind of savings and income "count" for medicaid purposes. For ex, money in an IRA or other pension account doesn't count. Then, iirc, you have to spend 1/2 of the remaining savings (spend down) before medicaid will start paying. Medicaid can also come after the estate for reimbursement if money wasn't counted that should have been.

Medicaid has a "look back" period at finances of the person for whom its paying the bill. It used to be 3 years, but was increased to 5 years. So anything put into a trust within that time period of the patient's death can be scrutinized and possibly persued to reimburse Medicaid. That was done to keep people from cheating the system by moving $s within a short timeframe of the person's death. If the person lives beyond 5 years of the trust establishment, everything is ok afaik.

FWIW, I was told by an elderlaw attorney that nursing homes make money with medicaid and anything over and above that reimbursement is gravy.

[marybourg]

69. I think most children actually want their parents

to use their money to take care of themselves in old age to the extent possible, and only if anything is left over, to pass it on to them.

And certainly, the childrens' wish -if any - to inherit, doesn't mean that the taxpayers should support the parents so that their particular children can inherit. That's obscene.

[OnlinePoker]

21. In BC for 2017 it's minimum $1104 and maximum of $3240 per month

It's based on income at a rate of 80% of after tax income. You pay for extra incidentals such as phone, cable, hairdressing, etc. It's set up to make it so a resident has a minimum of $325 per month of spending money after the care costs are paid.

[crazycatlady]

61. IN other states it is a lot lower than that

I handled my (late) grandmother's finances. She was left with $40/month, which didn't even cover the phone bill.

ETA this was Maine.

[Vinca]

22. I'm glad I decided long ago I'd rather commit suicide than be stuck in a nursing home.

Now I guess there's no turning back.

[dembotoz]

33. my fear is becoming incapacitated before i can exercise the cabellas solution

i have a large head that would be hard for me to miss

[get the red out]

35. My fear also

[Mendocino]

62. Maybe Ryan will give us vouchers,

just enough to buy a bullet and rent a gun.

[George II]

23. We paid roughly $120,000* for my mother and my father-in-law about 10 years ago. We would have.....

....welcomed a $60,000 annual payment.

*Mother was $12,000 per month and FIL was $11,000 per month.

[mnhtnbb]

25. My 90 year old uncle started out paying $5K/month for assisted living

in Pasadena, CA in 2011 after his wife died and he sold the family home. He had Parkinson's
and started falling at the assisted living facility. They insisted he have a personal aide with him
from 7 am to 7 pm--which meant his bill went up to $11K/month. His son came and moved
him up to Seattle to live with him. That lasted less than 6 months because he couldn't handle it.
So back into assisted living he went, away from all the friends of a lifetime.

Long term care for the elderly is VERY expensive. My plan is a handful of pills washed down with a nice Scotch while
listening to some good music looking at the ocean. Screw moving into assisted living at $12K/month and draining assets that my children are going to need.

[jmowreader]

28. This is the saddest part of the whole scam

People are actually making suicide plans.

[mnhtnbb]

32. I don't think it's sad.

We do it for our beloved fur babies. Why shouldn't people be able to choose to exit? Why should we be forced to endure
physical and mental deterioration and made to feel guilty for not wanting to live that way?

I'm a retired hospital administrator. I've seen a lot of human physical/mental deterioration from a distance--
and up close watching my 91 year old mother, then 91 year old father deteriorate. My father couldn't feed
himself, read, change the channels on TV, push the buttons on a CD player, or even go to the bathroom by himself
at the end. He was hallucinating that my brother was working on a house across the street from his nursing home and that his
dead wife was the woman living in the room next door at the nursing home.

No, thanks. Not for me.

[get the red out]

37. THANK YOU!

The taboo around it is just more religious thinking that has been shoved down people's throats generation after generation.

[BannonsLiver]

40. +1

I hope I live a long time and remain healthy but I'll have no qualms about checking myself out when the time comes. Not one bit of hesitation.

[DeminPennswoods]

48. Watching the deterioration is awful

Saw my dad go from a vibrant, active man, to nothing. To this day it breaks my heart there was nothing I could do but watch.

[TNNurse]

46. Many who work in healthcare

have had a plan for awhile. When you see families drag terminally ill people in and torture them with futile, painful care, you decide what you want for yourself. I actually looked at some families and said (as calmly as I could), "your family member should not have to suffer to give you time to get used to losing them". Some heard it, but most continued to make it all about themselves.

[mnhtnbb]

60. You are absolutely right. My dad had a health care directive

which included his right to not be fed by artificial means.

I had been to visit him in the nursing home--and help him eat lunch-- and told him we were going away for the weekend and that I'd be back to see him on Monday. Late Saturday morning in our hotel room I got a call saying that my father had stopped eating (Friday night) and was refusing all food. They
wanted to put in a feeding tube. I told them absolutely not. He had made his choice. He was in a coma within hours. I flew back as planned.
Went to see him Monday and sat reading to him. Went Tuesday and sat reading to him for hours. Went home--to fix dinner for kids--and planned
to go back after picking my husband up at the airport who had stayed in Chicago for a conference. After dinner, I thought, I should go see him before
I pick up my husband, but I was just too tired. About 8 pm the phone rang and the nursing home told me he had awakened and to come quickly. He died
while I was on my way over there--20 minutes away. I still--15 years later--think about how I should have listened to my gut to drive over there right
after dinner.

But you are right. Too many family members can't let go.

[TNNurse]

71. I got the call

and my mother died while I was making the 3 hour trip. You honored his wishes. I hope you will know that was the best thing. I am sorry you did not see him again, but making sure he did not linger was a great show of love.

While I was working in ICU, a doctor I knew who asked me if I would "really withhold care from a loved one". I told him I would, I had and I sleep just fine at night. My standard response was " I think you better do what your mama told you to do". My mother died in 1991.

[mnhtnbb]

74. I have always thought that he waited to stop eating until we went out of town

so that I wouldn't be faced with honoring his wishes while he was conscious. He was still daddy taking care of his daughter. How could I not honor
his wishes feeling that kind of love from him? He was so frail at that point that without eating he was going to become comatose pretty quickly.

Here I am bawling again--15 years later--thinking about how he did that for me. No, I've never had any problem with my decision because I knew
it was what he wanted.

[TNNurse]

79. I watched family finally leave the bedside from exhaustion

and the patient die while they are gone. Apparently did not want to die in front of them. It is a real phenomenon.

I still cry 26 years later over the oddest things. My father died in 1960 when I was 10, I can work up tears over that every once in awhile.

[mnhtnbb]

83. My husband's father did that. Actually told his wife to go home because he needed

to "get this done". He was 96. She did and he did.

[dembotoz]

34. the question not to be morbid but i guess it is.....

which handful of pills.....

[mnhtnbb]

64. My husband is an MD

and we have talked about this.

[manicraven]

50. I like your plan! I've been giving a lot of thought as I'm aging to how I want to go out...

There's no way I want to be in a nursing home or even at the mercy of my adult children who don't need to be burdened by me. They have enough on their plates and their own children. I also watched my fiercely independent grandfather live on his own until he was 96 and then died in his home (he did have hospice for the last few days), but quite honestly, he was painfully lonely and had many struggles, including failing eye sight and hearing that hampered his efforts greatly to be on his own. Somehow he managed even to cook for himself (utilized items to help the blind), but I also don't feel too keen to be that alone and to have outlived my spouse, first-born child, all friends, four out of five siblings... Still, his mind was sharp and there was no deficit there, but he was extremely lonely and visiting him was just a drop in the bucket and it was terribly hard to leave him, but he'd have it no other way. I think he made the most of life always, but I look at overall quality of life, not just quantity of life, and that's just too much struggle and loneliness for me personally.

[n2doc]

59. Yeah, but what if you have dementia or Alzheimer's?

That's my big worry- putting off the end until one is so far gone that they can't make that choice anymore. It seems logical to plan, but death rarely is.

[mnhtnbb]

63. Well, then you have to step up to the Robin Williams' plan

and make your choice before you lose the capability to do it.

[MFM008]

26. my mom fell in January

she has been in a "rehab" facility because she cant walk well.
She has 100 days of coverage then shes out.
We will have to take her out even if she needs to stay.
Family home is paid off and we want to keep it that way.

[Trust Buster]

81. Yes, she can stay in rehab for 100 days but Medicare only fully covers the first 20. On the 21st

day, I must come up with a co-pay of $125/day. Also, the rehab center is required to show Medicare that the patient is making steady progress or all bets are off.

[MFM008]

84. Yes

But she's covered by the rest through my dad's tricare.
That's all that saves her for now.

[Kimchijeon]

30. So many will die

Imagine outliving your family... and then you are chucked out into homelessness.

This is really horrible. I can't believe how utterly heartless they are.

[manicraven]

53. Yes, lots of people don't have kids or anybody they can turn to. It's really very sad.

The GOP won't care when seniors are under bridges; in fact, they'll probably say that they should have given up their cell phones or cable TVs years ago if they can't afford shelter. They have no compassion, and I honestly just despise them.

[Bengus81]

36. The Guberment has no money for these old,non tax paying drains,BUT we have plenty for...

that new Gerald Ford Carrier which has a price tag of $36 BILLION,and a WORTHLESS wall which will cost about the same. And HELL....Trump wants a couple more carriers.

Screw the old folks,we need weapons!!!

[pansypoo53219]

39. ayn randism must be destroyed.

[Marthe48]

55. Took care of several relatives in my life

My great aunt had had a stroke. She was batty, but not hard to watch over. I was 8 when my parents designated me as her companion.

My grandmother had CHF, and she just gradually wound down. Even though she was my Mom's ex mother-in-law, she and my Mom lived together next to my house. I helped, but my Mom was her main assistant.

I took care of my Mom in my house for 6 years. I worked from home, and my husband had a day job. My mom was really ill when she came to live with us, had a non-Addison adrenal dysfunction that was really hard to get diagnosed. Mom developed septic arthritis and couldn't have surgery for blocked carotid ateries, so she developed dementia because of the blockage. The last year I had her with me, she got the sun-down behavior and got really confused toward the afternoon and evening. So I was chasing after her a lot, which was bad, because I worked afternoons at a hectic job. Even though I was at home, it was definitely 4-12, with constant deadlines. She stayed at my sister's a couple of times, and was left on her own, because my sister didn't understand how ill Mom was. SHe Mom went out of my sister's home in the winter with no coat or shoes. Luckily a neighbor recognized her and got her inside. After that, we moved her to a nursing home and she passed away a year later.

My mother-in-law has dementia. She will be 94 the end of the month. She had an apt. and lived there with her dog. My husband and I were her main care givers, but he didn't want to be and resented having to care for her. I didn't mind for me, but there was some tension because of how John, my husband, felt. There was no way she would come to live with us. I offered, but John said no. I guess the 6 years for my Mom was enough for him. In Nov. 2015, Mom lost it and couldn't live on her own anymore. None of her kids felt capable of caring for her, so they decided on nursing care. We put her in a Alzheimer's unit at a local nursing home. One of our nieces works in the until, so Mom sees a familiar face almost every day. She is well-cared for and we did the right thing. John's sister took Mom's dog. John was diagnosed with cancer in March of 2016, and passed away in Jan. 2017. So it is just one long sad story.

We live in Ohio. When she entered the nursing home, we had to use up her savings. Then we signed her up for Medicaid. She pays close to $1000.00/month of her S.S. for her care. They calculated enough for her to pay for her secondary health and her life ins. and care for her dog. We had to assign her life ins. to a funeral home, so when she passes, she will have the service she wanted. She is allowed to have $2000.00 in assets. She has an account at the nursing home which she can use for hair, snacks, whatever she wants. There is a clause in Medicaid that the estate can be asked to repay costs. Most states haven't used that clause, but WV has and heirs are bitter about that.

From my experience, the choice of caring for a loved one at home should not be taken lightly. If the person needs a companion, somebody is going to have to be there. Locally, a home aide earns $10-$40/hr. And you get what you pay for. It is full-time, no time off. Ann Landers says caregivers get a seat at the right hand of God, but sorry, that doesn't balance the heartache.

Paul Ryan, the other reptilians, their families and any anti-American Russian loving trump supporters who supports repealing ACA and destroying Medicaid can all screw themselves on their way to hell.

[marybourg]

70. Thank you for this very moving story.

You are a very good and loving person, and I hope if you ever need the kind of care you've given others, someone will be there for you.

In my state, AZ, the state licenses group assisted homes where people can be cared for in a small, home-like setting. My bed-bound DH is in one, which we pay for ourselves and the care is much better than in a large facility and the cost is much less. I would urge anyone who'll be needing care for someone to find out whether their state has such a program. It's been a life-saver to us.

[Marthe48]

80. Thank you

All the people I cared for took care of others before they needed help themselves. In other countries, nursing homes aren't common. Several people I met said that relatives live at home with the families.

The assisted living group homes are a good idea. There used to be a couple locally. We didn't look into them because the final step were like off a cliff. Another option here in Marietta is the Home for Women. It is a small group home, but rarely has openings. There is also a county home, for the indigent.

If the reptiles get their way, there will have to be a lot of inventiveness, and adaptation. There are some people who aren't wired to care for others and some of the sick and old are going be abused.

[democratisphere]

57. The nursing homes, hospitals, medical staffs, pharmaceutical companies,

simply can't continue to price gouge Americans. republiCON's free market capitalism simply does not work with criminals and thieves in charge. Single payer with price caps is the only way to go.

[Hortensis]

65. On the plus side, combining estates and households

can be very good economically for a family, ,even very, very good.

And socially. Grands who still have their minds can watch children. And older children, instead of spending whole afternoons playing videogames in basements can babysit those who need it.

Why do I think those "family values" people would howl just as loud as anyone at having to give up a second income or put a hospital bed in the dining room when needed, though?

[TexasBushwhacker]

78. You mean like Paul Ryan who ditched his mother

and went to college in Ohio, leaving his widowed mother to care fir his grandmother with Alheimer's all by herself?

[Hortensis]

82. Oh, I didn't hear about that. I've suspected he's

a genuine libertarian by personality, though, and, generally speaking, those people don't understand sacrificing for others, think it's for suckers. Very very low in altruism, pursuit of personal freedom at the top of their moral code, even all alone up there for many. Fortunately, the most knowledgeable sounding ( ) estimate I've come across of their numbers was about 13%.

Hopefully he took care of his mother when he didn't have to sacrifice anything for it.

[JMCoast]

73. That's because

Repubs only care about their corporate masters and power. We are witnessing however what happens when they have to finally govern. They are failing BIG LEAGUE!!

[RKP5637]

76. The Trump Care Plan is to kill off those unable to pay. It's another pile of steaming Trump! n/t