Bernie To Dems: Stop Neglecting Trump Voters!

[Bigredhunk]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bernie-sanders-donald-trump-voters_us_58c1ac90e4b054a0ea68fa17?

At a time when Congress is debating a vast overhaul of the nation’s health care system, a hardened approach to refugees and immigration in general, and links between the current president and interests in Russia, Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) finds himself increasingly outside the Beltway, in states and towns won by President Donald Trump.

Since January, the Vermont senator has stopped in Mississippi, Kansas and Michigan. Monday he’s heading to one of the poorest counties in America, McDowell County, West Virginia, which Trump carried by a ratio of 3-to-1. Sanders views these enclaves as critical for the future of the Democratic Party and, by extension, the country. They are, he argues, the places where Democrats have shown “an enormous amount of neglect.”

....

[nycbos]

1. I am sorry

Last edited Thu Mar 9, 2017, 10:33 PM - Edit history (1)

I think he is a bit naive. Trump voters hate anyone who is a straight white WASP. No amount of appealing to their "economic anxiety"will get them to bit aside their hate.

[DefenseLawyer]

8. I am sorry

But it's naive to think that everyone that voted for Trump is a caricature in a stupid red hat. Yes, many are a lost cause, but there are also a fair number of Obama voters that voted for the idiot. We can bring those folks back into the fold and help our margins, particularly in the Rust Belt.

[Beartracks]

30. True that. I think many have buyer's remorse. Woo them back. n/t

[guillaumeb]

76. Very well said. Rather than shrink the pool of possible Democratic voters,

grow that pool with a message that combines economic policies with a recognition that racism is a tool used by the 1% to divide.

[Tiggeroshii]

134. Unless we decide to hate them even more fervently

creating a permanent polarization, then we've done a good job at fucking ourselves with our own resentments.

[lame54]

175. Maybe they need to reach out to us...

starting with an apology

[manicraven]

31. Just not true because many areas that went overwhelmingly for Obama twice, switched to trump. That

speaks volumes. They wouldn't have voted for a black president two times and then decided they're suddenly racist and voted for trump.

I actually thought the same way you do, but I had to change my opinion when presented with that info. I do think there are many, many who are just haters and racists, though, but not all of them.

[SMC22307]

63. Exactly. They voted for Obama twice but suddenly they're racists?

It's idiotic on its face.

[tonedevil]

77. They voted for...

pure unvarnished racism I don't know what else to call them. Does racist enablers make you happier?

[SMC22307]

81. Some did, not all.

Many former Obama voters admitted that Drumpf is rancid, but voted for him anyway because their towns have been decimated, and thought he'd be better on jobs and the economy. And until folks like you start LISTENING, the Democratic Party will keep LOSING. We have only six state governments to go until we fully control none of them. "It's the economy, stupid," and when Drumpf fails to deliver in PA, MI, and WI, they'll boot his ass. Meanwhile, we've got 2018 to get through, and calling all Republican voters "racist" or "racist enablers" is not a winning strategy.

[Orrex]

107. No, all did. Every one of them.

Whatever rationalizations they sold themselves, Trump voters looked at that horrible disgusting, racist rapist and said "He is the man to represent my country."

They can claim that this does make them racist, but fuck them anyway.


Democrats would be much better served by a sincere outreach to women and minorities. The racist and racist-enabling white voter shouldn't be coddled or courted. If they don't see how stupid and short-sighted they were, then fuck each and every last one of them, including my friends and family members who voted for him.

[JudyM]

158. Consider the source of their news, though.

The many who are working long hours, raising families and living hand to mouth and don't have time to read the paper... they get headlines but the negative ones are recast and explained away by Faux news. The main things that may have struck them (gotten through the noise) is that he was going to bring back American jobs and clean up Washington.

The analyses I've seen suggest that people hear what the con man says through filters, as we all do... not seeing racism/sexism as a key issue in his message does not necessarily make them affirmatively racist/sexist, IMO, it may just mean they may be more emotionally neutral/ignorant on those issues, and the $ issue hit them where they live. So many of them voted for Obama, after all.

This isn't a justification whatsoever, but is a possible explanation. If we demonize them and consider them irredeemable we will lose a lot of potential voters we need next time around...

If that makes sense at all to you...?

[Orrex]

172. I see very little to suggest that they are potential voters next time around

There are, as far as I can determine, four types of Trump voters:

1. They voted for him, they support him, and would happily vote for him again.

2. They voted for him but now claim buyers' remorse because they don't want to accept the consequences of their vote, but they'd vote for him again and will certainly vote for every other Republican in 2018 and 2020

3. They voted for him but now claim buyers' remorse because they're embarrassed to admit that they were conned, but they'd vote for him again and willc certainly vote Repub in 18 and 20

4. They realize that they were conned and are truly regretful. These are maybe 5 out of every 100 Trump voters. And why the hell didn't they think about what they were doing before casting their votes? Too little, too late.

We can waste a lot of effort "reaching out to" these 5 racist-enabling rapist-supporting suddenly open-eyed voters, or we can accept that Clinton was fucked out of a clear victory because she ran an amazingly successfully campaign. She only "lost" due to a bullshit electoral quirk that seems, at best, suspicious.

I'm a white working-class male, and I say screw the white working class male if his head is so far up his ass that he voted for Trump. Let us instead reach out to women and minorities and build a stronger, more diverse base in the process.

[JudyM]

182. Recognizing that a decent chunk of the voters have a below-average IQ (more on 45's side than not),

your assumption may not be completely true that your categories 2&3 explain everyone who isn't a 1 or a 4. A lot of people in these groups voted for Obama (if your 5% figure re:#4 is ballpark accurate), meaning that they're not die hard rethug voters. When election success can turn on a thin margin, these voters still matter, eh?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

203. Great analysis. However I do think we can peel away a bit more than 5% of Deplorables.

After all Richard Nixon and George Bush's approval ratings sank to the high 20s/low30s.

"While I have the floor" I categorically reject the assertion that Deplorables didn't know who they voted for. You had to live under a rock to not be aware of his Islamophobia, anti-semitism, sexism, nativism, misogyny, and bigotry,

[tonedevil]

208. At what point...

did Donald conceal his racism? No one who voted for him could have possibly missed it and yet that wasn't a deal breaker.

[KPN]

137. You paint with a broad brush and in so doing deny the details.

Sorry and no offense intended, but it strikes me as exactly what Trump himself did/does. Can you not see the similarity?

[tonedevil]

207. No I can not...

Donald started his campaign with a slur toward Mexicans soon pivoted to slur Muslims and then told us that all "The Blacks" lived in hell. None of that was anything but front and center. Voting for that means at the very least you have no problem with an unequivocal racist as the leader of our country. What conclusion is to be reached when someone runs on racism and someone else votes for them?

[KPN]

217. I hear you and understand you. At the same time, I don't agree with your position

that everyone who voted for Trump is racist and/or xenophobic. How do you rectify your thinking with the fact that many who voted for Trump in 2016 also voted for Obama in 2008 and 2012? The only way one can do that is by discarding any other details or factors that may have entered into a persons decision to vote for Trump.

Did people who voted for Trump turn a blind eye to the reprehensible hate he fomented and enabled/enables? Absolutely. Does that make them enablers? Yes. Was that the primary reason they (all Trump voters) voted for him? Nope.

Trump did not win strictly because of racist/xenophobic attitudes. Ignoring the failure of the Democratic Party to adequately protect the welfare of the working class over the the past 30+ years will only prolong it's losing streak. Being aggressive about the economic welfare of the working class in no way inherently undercuts the fight for equal rights for all, though some here at DU make it seem that way. I reject that thinking. Sorry.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

82. Ninety three percent of Obama voters voted for Hillary.

And, yeah, racists will vote for a black guy if they see there is something in it for them.

I know this guy who is racist and homophobic. We used to play a "game"

What would you do if your daughter dated a black guy?

What would you do if your daughter was gay?

What if the ER doctor was black ?


Where did he draw the line? He said he would be okay with a black ER doctor but not a black trans one.


BTW, if a Deplorable wants to turn away from his or her wicked ways and come to the side of light they should be welcomed.

[elleng]

44. With your attitude, Democrats will get NO WHERE, EVER.

[RKP5637]

51. Exactly! Democrats will be a lost party into the future. Democrats need to support everyone. Trump

pulled the wool over millions and misled them for their vote for him.

[elleng]

57. Yes indeed.

I'm dismayed by many posts on this thread, DUers seem to be unaware of the positions taken not only by Senator Sanders but also by Keith Ellison and Mayor Pete Buttigieg, among others. We MUST get back to appealing to the working class in the country.

[NastyRiffraff]

199. Dump did NOT mislead them

I have to give him that. He told them, loudly and clearly, EXACTLY who he is and what he stands for. He didn't dog-whistle his bigotry, he proudly shouted it out at every rally, cheered on enthusiastically by an audience dominated by white males. They understood him, all right.

Begging for these votes? No, thank you. Not only is that a waste of time, but it's repugnant. I don't want these people in my party.

Caveat, and I shouldn't have to say this: There are exceptions to the above, but very few among Dump voters.

[Cha]

126. You're into Reality.. nothing wrong with that Attitude.

[Yo_Mama]

205. Hillary only got the votes of 2/3rds of Asians and Hispanics.

The rest of them either voted for Trump, did not vote for president, or voted for a third candidate.

Think about why that might be.

69% of the electorate was either dissatisfied or angry with the federal government. Trump won more votes from these two groups than Hillary by no small margin. Only 30% of the voters sampled were either satisfied or enthusiastic about the federal government. Hillary won those people by huge margins.

There is plenty of space for outreach to Trump voters without compromising Democratic principles.

[riderinthestorm]

219. Yup this nt

[uponit7771]

2. Cause Russia had nothing to do with Clinton's loss? I'm sick of the ignore Russia crowd

[Cha]

73. And, comey.. and voter Purging and Suppression..

[TheFrenchRazor]

97. how quickly they forget. by 2020 it will be ancient history. nt

[bettyellen]

115. It's weird, isn't it. But I guess it's hard for people to accept they were manipulated by wikileaks

Because it's a mistake with huge consequences.

[KPN]

139. Some of us are sick of the everything is hunky dory, Hillary/we won the popular vote crowd.

So what? Where does that get us? Absolutely no where. I (and I believe many others who share the perspective that this catastrophe has been a long time coming) actually accept your views as legitimate and only want to add some seemingly forgotten or overlooked details, but feel you folks do not reciprocate by legitimizing ours. What is that good for? Absolutely nothing.

[uponit7771]

180. Strawman... No one is even attempting to feign perfection but you. Just not going to ignore reality

[KPN]

191. No it's not. If there is a straw man, it's that

the only reasons Hillary/we lost are: an undemocratic electoral college, Comey, Russiagate, Bernie, and 3rd party candidates. I'm not going to sit on the sideline and let other Democrats continue to make statements that purposefully or by default ignore the failure of the Democratic Party to stand up for the working class the past 30+ years. To a certain and significant degree, we did this to ourselves in my view -- it's a view I've held for the entire 30+ years while consistently supporting the Democratic Party with my votes, contributions and engagement.

I unabashedly applaud the attention Bernie is/has brought to what I think has been the party's most significant failure over the long haul.

[uponit7771]

193. Another strawman, no one is saying the only reason she lost was cheating but you

[KPN]

194. BS -- you aren't reading many posts then.

Calling something a straw man does not make it so. Actually, this one strikes me as projection.

[uponit7771]

195. Im reading yours and the minimizing of Russia's effect on the election

[KPN]

196. BS again. I have never minimized any of that stuff ...

or any of the other reasons we lost. You are seeing what you prefer to see.

[uponit7771]

197. False in its face, your strawmen ... Not mine

[KPN]

198. Okay, you win.

[alarimer]

166. No, putting all the eggs in the Russia basket is a mistake.

Democrats need to watch out. There might not be any "there" there and then they will be left with egg on their faces, just like the Patrick Fitzgerald thing.

Russia is just an excuse. Democrats lost because they have neglected state organizations for many years, among other problems they have.

[uponit7771]

181. We agree, that's why they had Comey and voter suppression as a back up

[ananda]

3. Sanders means well ..

.. but he is off the mark here.

45 voters are lost causes.

[bluedye33139]

40. +1

[DemocratSinceBirth]

85. There are a small percent of them we might be able to peel off, maybe 10% -20%.

My buddy is a lifeguard at a club where the clientele is middle and upper middle class. He said the defense of Thump by the Deplorables is much more muted.

[Jim Lane]

112. Even 10% would be plenty.

Suppose 10% had switched from Trump to Hillary -- not 10% of the total electorate, but just one-tenth of the Trump voters. Then Hillary would have carried the "blue wall" states that she lost (Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania). She would have carried a bunch of the traditional swing states (Iowa, Ohio, North Carolina, Florida). She would have carried Arizona, Georgia, and Texas!

The point where I disagree with you is in calling them "Deplorables". Some are. Some aren't. The ones that aren't are the ones we can peel off.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

114. I don't suggest calling them Deplorables to their face.

[Jim Lane]

124. When you call them that on a public board, you're calling them that to their faces. (n/t)

[DemocratSinceBirth]

155. Censoring myself is not something I can do.

It would be akin to not criticizing David Duke and his acolytes online for fear of alienating him and them.

[KPN]

140. I disagree. Some are lost causes, but many are not.

[Hekate]

4. Hekate to Bernie:YOU take care of the Trump voters!The rest of us are hanging on by our fingernails

...thanks to what they just did to the country!

Hekate to Bernie: Hillary got 3 million more votes than Trump, and you STILL want us to grovel and apologize to the dumbasses who put TrumpPutin in the White House?

[manicraven]

33. Does he mean grovel and apologize? I'm not taking the post that way.

[Hekate]

62. They WON. They got everything they thought they wanted. Sorest bunch of winners in the land.

If Bernie thinks the Democratic Party should oughta take care of their feefees right now, he should (a) join the damn Party he criticizes so continuously, and (b) take care of their wounded feelings himself, because (c) I have news for The Silver Haired Socialist From Vermont: this country is crashing and burning right before our very eyes. Right this very minute it's an All Hands On Deck, Three Alarm Fire, national emergency. The clue is: Trump + Putin.

(Hekate needs hair-on-fire emoji rfn)

[KPN]

143. Bernie is taking care of their feelings. He's going to them with the message the Democratic Party

should have been promoting the past 30-35 years. Seems pretty admirable to me. He's taking the fight directly to them by engaging them -- rather than just bitching about them. We should all be doing that.

[nolabels]

152. We never did live in an idyllic world

When was it that you were hearing about the salesman of the year making his mark because he complains about his customers so much?

The only real question are able to overlook someone's shortcomings in order to be their friend?

[Cary]

34. It would have been 5 million but for voter suppression

That's where we must put our energy, into fighting voter suppression.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

50. Yep. It should be unacceptable.

[Hekate]

52. HELL yes!

[LenaBaby61]

54. Hekate to Bernie:YOU take care of the Trump voters!The rest of us are hanging on by our fingernails.

Amen to that Hekate

I still respect Bernie because he DOES have something to say, and I agree with much of what he says.

But NOT on this issue.

BERNIE, PLEASE CHILL ON THAT "KUMBUYA" STUFF where it relates to tRumputin voters and stop criticizing Democrats, PLEASE

Those asses voted to screw "US," and many for nefarious reasons. However, in the process they screwed THEMSELVES by voting for the most corrupt, ruskie-installed, treasonous jerk of a president we've ever had: Look at what could potentially happen to them concerning tRumputincare "reform" if it passes. It was crafted behind closed doors by the party they voted for who wants to screw them and us into HELL, just so they can give mega tax breaks to their "brethren."

[Cary]

74. We have the superior product

[Cha]

127. Mahalo Hekate.. we don't need any more lectures from BS.. Tom & Keith have this..

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[Skidmore]

169. +1

Mahalo, Cha.

[Cha]

171. You're Welcome, Skidmore

[KPN]

142. That's BS. Nobody wants you or anyone to grovel to anybody. You know that.

[bravenak]

5. Has he lost his mind?

He always seems to spend most of his energy on attacking us.

[JHan]

56. Just what we need right now, more friendly fire, just what the doctor ordered.

Ellison and Perez are fresh, we're facing challenges on all fronts, so this is the right time to fire a hit on top of the other hits. After all it never occurred to anyone until today that we need to focus on grassroots activism. In fact, this is the first time we've ever heard of such a concept, thanks Bernie.

[Jim Lane]

86. So you think any suggestion of how to improve our tactics is "attacking us"?

If more people had your attitude, the left would never improve.

Fortunately, most of us don't see it that way. Opinions differ about exactly how to improve, of course, but a lot of progressives don't like the current situation (Republican dominance) and are open to discussing how to do better.

Right in this thread you'll see people who agree with Bernie and people who disagree with him. More to the point, you'll see people in each group addressing the merits of the question, rather than going into a knee-jerk reaction of dismissing any suggestion for change.

[bravenak]

95. Oh. So I should try to kowtow to folks who voted to deport my relatives, because?????

[Jim Lane]

102. No. What you should do is stop with the idiotic straw-man arguments.

No one has said "kowtow" except you in #95.

No one has said "ignore Russia" except uponit7771 in #2.

No one has said "grovel and apologize" except Hekate in #4.

No one has said "{w}ash their sheets" except world wide wally in #9.

No one has said "cater to nutjobs and racist assholes" except dalton99a in #28.

When so many people fall all over themselves to refute things that Bernie didn't say, it's a strong indication that they can't counter what he actually did say. Trust me, Bernie Sanders, of all people, was not suddenly saying we should try to get to the right of the GOP and hope that if we out-racist them we'll carry West Virginia. His point, a more subtle one, is that voters are influenced by multiple considerations, so we shouldn't just write off more than 60 million people.

Taking it as a given that many Trump voters were racists, many others weren't. We can go after the ones who believe, correctly, that the political establishment in Washington hasn't been looking out for their interests. Trump, with his faux populism, conned enough of them into thinking that he was an outsider who was different. (Anecdotal evidence: Haven't you seen the reports of Trump voters who are sure he won't actually take away their Obamacare?)

So, no, it doesn't mean we kowtow to them. It means we compete for their votes with a combination of the positive (for example, strongly pushing for a $15 minimum wage) and the negative (for example, making a big deal about the regressive tax cuts that Trump will probably be signing).

[JHan]

116. There are several responses a liberal can make towards trump voters

(Aside from the fact that bravenak's argument was not a strawman at all but got to the heart of it )

Empathy is "seeing life through someone else's eyes" - Most of us can feel for someone who has lost a job, lost their life's savings, or feels there's no future ahead of them. These are pretty standard concerns for democrats.

On the other hand, we can't ignore Trump's divisive bigoted campaign which targeted and scapegoated mexicans, muslims and exposed his sexism. Trump's support among his base remains unchanged, this despite the reports of people being detained for all sorts of spurious reasons, despite the drip drip of possible direct collusion with Russia, the dismantling of the EPA and a horror show of a cabinet made up mostly of billionaires. They're sticking behind him which means they're okay with it.

You can either dismiss them completely, or believe them to be misguided, or maybe even empathize with them, or maybe tell yourself that some of the things Trump ran on had merit , or take it even further and think of supporting Trump. Once you make the switch to "Trying to understand", and rationalizing, using the farce of finding common ground , you're ignoring reality and softening rejection of Trumpism and unethical behavior that's already defined his administration.

Trump voters don't have a monopoly on economic anxiety.

Trump voters aren't the only ones anxious about healthcare and the economy.

We don't need to reach out to "Trump voters", we need to sell our ideas hard and get back to old school style activism at the local government level and make our presence felt.

Ellison is aware of this and Perez is aware of this. They're going on a tour soon and they're passionate and driven and UNITED.

[Jim Lane]

135. Of those responses, I reject pandering. I also reject dismissing and ignoring.

First, bravenak's post was a straw-man argument. To kowtow to the Trump voters, one would cater to their prejudices -- to say that we could build the wall better than Trump, bomb Muslims better than Trump, etc. Anyone who reads the actual HuffPo piece will see that Bernie is, instead, talking about things like health care and union organizing. In the video he mentions opposing tax cuts for billionaires. These are traditional Democratic positions.

Far from kowtowing to racists, Bernie specifically points out and denounces Trump's racist strategy of demonizing immigrants and refugees.

It is a straw-man argument to refute a proposal that the other person has not actually made.

You write:

Once you make the switch to "Trying to understand", and rationalizing, using the farce of finding common ground , you're ignoring reality and softening rejection of Trumpism and unethical behavior that's already defined his administration.

It's not a farce. There is common ground. Let the right-wing propagandists dismiss it as "class warfare" but I think the 99%ers across the country have a lot in common with each other, even though there are also divisions. Far from "softening rejection of Trumpism," this strategy involves pointing out that Trump has already betrayed the faux populism that he skillfully exploited to get votes.

You write:

We don't need to reach out to "Trump voters", we need to sell our ideas hard....

That's a false dichotomy. Selling our ideas hard is how we reach out to them. Bernie points out that, across a range of economic issues, polls consistently show more support for the progressive positions.

[JHan]

141. No it was not a strawman..

to claim it was a strawman completely dismisses Trump's divisive bigoted message and why it resonated with people.

Stop gaslighting what happened last year. It's annoying to see efforts to downplay the dogwhistles and disgusting shit Donald Trump engaged in and WHY It was appealing to many voters. Of course there are ignorant voters who haven't a clue about shit, but there are as many voters who knew damn well what they wanted in the White House and endorsed it 100%, continue to endorse it 100% because they're damned ignorant.

There is NOTHING cute or innocent about people who cling to zero-sum solutions.

Therefore the point should not be to reach out to "Trump voters" but to reach out to people who are suffering. whether they're white working class, black working class whoever. We don't need a whole new language to reach out to the WWC, which was the narrative immediately after the election. This is insulting as fuck.

So there's a distinction, a pretty important one. You reach out based on principles and ideas, not who they voted for or chasing a particular demographic that voted in ways diametrically opposed to party principles.

To do so , in this context, IS farcical given Trump's divisive rhetoric which many are trying to pretend wasn't much of a motivating factor - people voted for it. I've never found it difficult understanding economic hardship, but I refuse to "empathize" with a voter that believes Manuelo is the reason they lost their job so they gotta vote Trump. There's no point to empathizing with people who are ok with voting for a guy who will give the wealthy tax cuts, demonize immigrants and repeal regulations that ensure we enjoy clean water and clean air.

The only thing I'm gonna tell a Trump voter is "Sorry, but you got duped by a con man" - I don't need to empathize with the world perspective many of them believe in which is a fucked up form of authoritarianism on a global scale.

[Jim Lane]

211. You've misunderstood my argument about the straw man

Trump actually has sent a "divisive bigoted message" so criticizing that would not be a straw-man argument. You and I agree on that.

The issue here, however, is criticizing Bernie Sanders on the ground that he said we should "kowtow" to Trump voters. That's a straw man because Bernie said no such thing. What he actually said was that we should reach those voters with our message on the issues. For example, a higher minimum wage would benefit whites and people of color and immigrants and Muslims. Bernie also pointed out in the linked article that Trump and his ilk are trying to obscure this common interest by using the classic demagogue's strategy of demonizing subgroups.

Kowtowing to the white racists would be joining Trump in his divisive message. Bernie is doing exactly the opposite.

[JHan]

212. I know we agree on the basics but the point is focus:

I don't want to hear any politician "reaching out to Trump voters", it's silly. The Trump voter is distinctive in the things he or she found compelling about Trump. But there are also soft Trump voters, yet still, making distinctions like this makes no sense and seems like a slap in the face to voters who supported Democrats or americans who are experiencing the fall out of Trump's policies ( Or will experience them soon enough)*

.. I want to hear a politician reaching out to those who are hurting, whether they voted for Trump, or voted Clinton, or voted Johnson or voted Stein or did NOT vote , matter of fact I want to hear more about voters who could not vote, why they couldn't, why is there such poor participation in the political process by so many Americans.

What Bernie said is what I would define as "friendly fire" that is utterly pointless at this stage, especially since there are two passionate and focused Democrats heading the DNC who understand what's at stake.

This , from Bernie, at this moment was a political fail.

[KPN]

145. Great post! Right on., Thanks for taking the time to articulate that so well.

[mountain grammy]

177. Good points and well made.

First, I have to say, I have so much hatred for trump voters, I couldn't even bring myself to respond to this OP. Then I got a jury call, and, as a Bernie, then Hillary supporter, decided to weigh in, for whatever it's worth.

You're right. Last night I endured an evening with people I know voted for trump. This was only the second time since the election I've done this. Are these people racist? I never thought that before, but it's hard to accept that they would support one, or at least it has been for me. I just can't get past it. At both of these parties, I stayed mainly with people I relate to, non trump supporters, several of them Republicans, no less, and that's what got me thinking. I disagree with these R's on almost everything except trump, and his dangerous cabinet. Some trump voters I know never voted before in their lives. No understanding of politics at all, so they were conned. Can I understand that? Not really, but it's reality and I can't live my life avoiding everyone, and these are the ones we can reach. We also must reach out to those who don't vote and especially those who couldn't. Voter suppression is real, and, in my opinion, why we lost.

[Cha]

129. Like we need any lectures from BS.. Tom & Keith got this

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[KPN]

144. No.

Many here don't perceive him the same way as you. I don't in the least feel attacked by him. Been a registered Democrat for 45 years, have run for and been elected to a local office, and am active in the local party.

We see things differently. Our perceptions are as legitimate as yours, no?

[KittyWampus]

6. STFU! Perez and Ellison only just got started.

[kstewart33]

7. Bernie, a request.

Want to influence and/or lead the Democratic Party? Gotta join the Democratic Party. Until then, not interested.

[bluedye33139]

42. +1

[Talk Is Cheap]

69. Why?

[KPN]

146. Good question.

[Paladin]

93. +1000.

[world wide wally]

9. What am I supposed to do for them?

Wash their sheets?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

10. Yes

[Quayblue]

46. Lulz nt

[heaven05]

80. this..nt

[standingtall]

11. There was probably a time

when socialist would've called people who vote against their own interest class traitors.

[Adrahil]

12. They hate brown people, Bernie.

The Southern Strategy worked. They are completely willing to vote against their own economic interests if the person hate brown people sufficiently.

Bernie doesn't get it.

[bunnies]

13. 50 state strategy. Thought it was popular.

Huh.

[Cirque du So-What]

17. And it will be again

as long as anyone other than Bernie talks about it

[KittyWampus]

27. Howard Dean actually implemented that strategy but many Sanders supporters turned on him

when he threw his hat into the DNC Chair race.

[Caliman73]

48. Dean was very good as the DNC chair.

He did have a bit of a turn when he started lobbying for large pharmaceutical companies and came out supporting ACA without the public option or other more populist approaches.

That said, I think that Sanders needs to work quietly behind the scenes or with the DNC to set up a ground game for Democrats and progressives rather than continuing to call Democrats out.

[Talk Is Cheap]

70. Do you really want allies to 'shut up'?

What's the problem here?

[sheshe2]

83. Allies do not constantly trash

those they supposedly wish to ally with. Allies work with us and not against us. BS seems to wish to fly solo. That is not how it works.

[Talk Is Cheap]

90. What if what he is saying is absolutely correct?

Maybe it takes someone to say that the Dem party needs to shape up...

[sheshe2]

94. Constantly trashing our DEMOCRATIC PARTY is not the way to go.

I keep hearing...they voted for Obama twice!!! WE CAN WIN THEM BACK!!!! Bull. BS wanted our extremely popular sitting President primaried in 2012. I will never believe what he has to say after that.

[Talk Is Cheap]

98. Sanders statement wasn't so harsh...

But, I agree with Sanders then - Obama wanted to cut Social Security. To me,
that is enough to primary any Dem...

[bettyellen]

117. He did not "want to cut social security".

[BainsBane]

167. That is a false

and malicious.

[Go Vols]

213. Yep

Obama’s position on the program in late 2012, when his administration argued for reducing Social Security benefits by recalculating the way cost of living adjustments are made.

https://theintercept.com/2016/06/02/obama-wanted-to-cut-social-security-then-bernie-sanders-happened/

[BainsBane]

165. He sees Democratic lawmakers everyday

Or he is supposed to anyway. Don't you think if his message was intended for them, he would convey it directly to them on the Hill rather than threw the news media?

I believe the party needs to do better, but I don't believe that means valuing a few thousand white men above the million or so disenfranchised voters of color that Bernie NEVER mentions. We already have a GOP. Why do we need another party that focuses on white men to the exclusion of the majority of Americans?

[gratuitous]

19. Yeah, me too

Sure, political rallies in Philly or New York or L.A. are fun for Democratic presidential candidates, but it wouldn't hurt to schedule a campaign event in Paducah or Wichita. It generates local excitement, the candidate gets a chance to talk directly with local media folks, and encourages a lot of lonesome political battlers fighting the good fight in very Republicans areas. Tout Democratic successes and popular platform policies like raising the minimum wage, infrastructure spending, and better public schools. Give the folks there something to digest besides Fox News and hate radio.

[Blue_true]

39. You make a good point. I was 100% behind Hillary in the Primary

and General. But one mistake Hillary made was staying off the campaign trail too much, she gave Bernie critical life a couple times by doing that and she played right into Trump's claim that she was old and feeble. Hillary should have used her abundant financial resources to live on the road, visiting small cities and large cities in battleground states, going to red states that she didn't expect to win to help life local Democrats, staying the simple homes of supporters like Obama made a habit of doing - those images would have played massively to offset the conned image that Trump was trying to convey.

[Lotusflower70]

84. True that

Hillary and her people took so much for granted. Staying away from the Midwest turned a lot of people off.

[lapucelle]

128. I think you're mistaken.

I'm a New Yorker, but I worked the Hillary ground game as a volunteer in Pennsylvania in September and October, so I guess fall into the "her people" category. We weren't taking anything for granted.

As for campaign events and their locations, lots of people assume that if they didn't see it on TV , it never happened. You can find a detailed (but incomplete) list here.

http://wikielections.com/us/presidential-elections-2016/us-presidential-elections-2016_news/hillary-clinton-upcoming-events-schedule-2016/

[Dustlawyer]

60. +1!!! THIS

Living in a red state, in a red county, it means a lot when we get help from a national figure coming into the area. It lets us know we are not alone seeing everyone else come out. During the campaign season, up until this last election, the only political ads we see are Republicans trying to out Tea Party each other. We saw Democrats running ads this time which hasn't been since Howard Dean's 50 state strategy. Bernie came several times to Texas. We need this kind of attention to get the massive numbers of un-registered Latino's and other minorities registered and to the polls.

I would rather beat up on Republicans than crap on someone who is out there working for the future votes for Democrats and expressing views I happen to agree with, as do many Progressives. We are in the fight with literally everything on the line! The Republicans want to create their corporate utopia. Russians hacked our election, and apparently, they are on the inside in the WH. We have lost the WH, Senate, House, and 2/3 or so states. We have freaking Donald Trump for a president. We cannot afford infighting at this point!

[Lotusflower70]

87. Interesting observations

I think that reinforced the idea of the detached elitists to some in the midwest. Hopefully they learned not to take the middle of the country for granted.

[mountain grammy]

179. Agree!

[Johonny]

21. I agree

though the title is wrong. Trump voters are lost causes, but Dems have shown before if you try in these areas you'll find plenty of non-voting liberals that have basically been waiting for Dems to run quality campaigns.

[SMC22307]

61. No, they're not. At least not all of them.

Many said they found Drumpf RANCID, but voted for him because they thought he'd be better on jobs and the economy. They also said they'd boot his ass if he doesn't deliver. I'm referring to ones who voted for Obama twice, but didn't support Hillary. I forget the number of counties that voted for Obama twice, but switched to Trump. They'll switch back because Trump *ain't* gonna deliver squat. The Democratic Party needs to SEIZE on that and like Bernie said, reach out to these people whose primary concern is the economy (which is most Americans). It was the same thing Howard Dean said way back when.

And wait until Rs really start fucking around with the ACA, Medicare, SS, etc. Rs will be handing wins to Democrats on a silver platter... let's hope they don't fuck it up.

[KittyWampus]

26. who said it wasn't? And when Howard Dean entered the 'race' for DNC chair

the guy WHO MADE THAT STRATEGY HAPPEN, many Sanders supporters in the blogosphere turned against him.

[Blue_true]

64. Another good point. If we spend more time and resources

in deep red areas, the Democrats we help get elected from those areas will most likely be bluedogs, like the new Maricopa County Arizona Sheriff, a career Phoenix Police Officer who ran as a Democrat to help get rid of Apiao - if he does a good job at that level, we could have a Democrat Governor of Arizona again, but expect him to be a bluedog.

There are some on DU who avidly support Bernie, but hate bluedogs like Bill Nelson of Florida, Heidi Heitkamp , Joe Manchin, constantly dreaming of primarying them. Bernie should know that what he is proposing will have more bluedog Democrats coming to Washington, so must the people pining about Democrats forgetting rural people.

[bullwinkle428]

168. Exactly - everyone on this freaking board was a fan of this approach

just a couple of weeks ago during the whole sturm und drang over the selection of the new DNC chairperson!

[bunnies]

186. But Bernie said it so...

[stillcool]

14. whatever...

[VOX]

15. Love ya Bern, but we're in the middle of a street-fight right now...

Timing is everything. We're in a pitched battle for sanity, FACTS, and democracy itself.

This isn't the place or time for "we're all in this together" messaging. Sadly.

[nikibatts]

16. When they stop ignoring themselves, then I will stop ignoring them.

[melman]

18. Of course that's not actually what he said

OP deliberately made a more click-baity headline. Typical.

Oh, and god forbid anyone try to figure out how to win next time.

[Bigredhunk]

24. -

I copied the headline post directly from HP's front page. I wrote what they wrote word for word, same punctuation.

[sheshe2]

88. No.

The title of the Article ...

Bernie Sanders Has A Plan To Win Back Trump Voters
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bernie-sanders-donald-trump-voters_us_58c1ac90e4b054a0ea68fa17?

Yours...

Bernie To Dems: Stop Neglecting Trump Voters!

[Bigredhunk]

121. -

Yeah, and the title was originally exactly as I wrote it, word for word. It was the lead on HP's home page. Now it's bumped down for "House Rams Repeal - Without Knowing The Cost" - story.

[sheshe2]

122. Huff is known for sensationalizing an article on their front page.

Title and image seldom are what the articles state.

Thanks for your explanation.

[Bigredhunk]

123. -

I don't know of any way to show it as it was when it was first up on HP. I didn't take a screen shot. Here are two tweets from earlier that quote the same article title:

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Whenever I post a link to an article I use the title of the article from the web site.

[Cha]

125. And, thank you for that, Bigredhunk

This Dem to BS.. Tom & Keith have this.. you go do your thing.. We got this.

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

tired of him.

[KittyWampus]

29. just read the whole piece. Sanders has a whole spiel quoted where he attacks the Democratic party.

[onyxw]

119. Completely Agree Occulus

Agree 100%. Don't normally post just to provide an agreement, but you nailed it and there's so few voices saying that here right now.

With regards to the finger pointing...I'll just leave this link here for further support of your point:

http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/3/8/14848636/hillary-clinton-tv-ads

If folks want to place blame with Bernie, 3rd parties, Comey, Russia they better start digging deep to come up with a more compelling explanation than the malpractice shown in that article & the articles that came out regarding ground game strategies. It's fair to argue that the media's coverage wasn't appropriately covering the issues. But guess what, the campaign had $1B to counter with and get that message out through their tv ads and they didn't do it.

As to your concerns about midterms and beyond & messaging problems:
I echo that we need to fix things ASAP. Now that we have our new DNC chair, going forward, Democrats ought to have a summit in the next 3-6 months and hammer out a cohesive message for what they stand for (beyond we're not Trump/we're not the Republicans).

Our platform from the convention is a good place to start, but we just need something that we can rally around going forward, that shows the heart of Democrats, what we're going to do for people over the next 2-4 years when not in office, and the things we've got on deck the next time we're in power.

- It should address what specific programs Democrats are going to defend adamantly, and what programs they're going to push for whether they're in power or out of power.

- Figure out the issues we expect our members to vote lock step on and cede no ground nationally, and work out which issues individual legislators can be free to vote on at their state level interests. Agreement/clarity here might help when Manchin, Heitkamp, McCaskill, other centrists have to peel off from time to time. Can work out strategy for issues when want to send a united message in opposition to the Republicans/Trump.

- Each Democrat should be tasked with working out their 30 seconds to 2 minute pitch messages for what Democrats stand for and what each Congressperson and candidate stands for that is unique and different from Republicans (and any relevant 3rd parties) and know it backwards and forwards, so that when they're asked "what do you stand for?" at town halls they don't bumble through with generalities and platitudes. That should be the easiest question to field all night and they should be able to rattle off 5-6 key things on the spot. "Here are the 2-4 key values I fight for as a Democrat, and here are the 3 policy items I'm strongly working to pursue and that we'll get passed if enough Democrats are elected." Boom, convey what you stand for, what you're working towards to help people, and give them a reason to help get more Democrats elected. No excuse for EVERY Democrat to not have that response ready to go at anytime.

[ecstatic]

20. Are there not enough voters with common sense and brain cells?

Why do we have to focus on people who are still ecstatic about Trump? I don't want the dumbest among us to take over the democratic party. Look at what happened to the rethugs when they let the most ignorant take over their party. Let's work on the 41% who didn't vote and who are naturally liberal without the need for convincing. Those who are horrified by Trump and everything he stands for. Those who aren't susceptible to white supremacist messaging.

[Phoenix61]

104. Exactly!

There are a lot more people who didn't bother to vote at all than who voted for 45. We can attract them and if we pick up some of 45's supporters, great. I just don't think focusing on winning 45's supporters over is the best use of limited resources.

[Dawson Leery]

22. There are legit reasons to speak to the swing voters who went for Trump.

The base is another matter. The right 33% will NEVER respect our right to exist. They can go to hell and let nature take it's course with their opioids.

[Freethinker65]

45. Agreed. The true Pro-Trump voters will likely never vote Democratic.

The anti-Hillary (for whatever non-sensical reason) and those that chose not to vote (or voted Third Party) must not be ignored. Thing is, they were not ignored in the last election and still chose to not vote Democratic.

[TexasBushwhacker]

23. I don't disagree with him

Last edited Thu Mar 9, 2017, 09:41 PM - Edit history (1)

But it's easier for him to do as an "independent" than many of the Democratic mainstream. There are millions of people who voted for Trump who wouldn't vote for anyone with a "D" by their name if you held a gun to their heads.

We certainly need to work on voter supression issues, but I think the people who are most likely to change are the people who voted for Obama in '12 and Trump in '16. Also the folks who cast votes for Johnson and Stein, and the people who voted down ballot but not for president.

[manicraven]

41. I agree. The people who voted for Obama (some twice) are not racist. They just had not felt any of

the economic recovery and then trump came along promising jobs and to renegotiate NAFTA, which made sense to them. I think with a bit of effort those people could vote for a Democrat in the next election. Why do so many commenting here not see any wisdom with this? We want to bring people in, not alienate them further. Sure, I agree that there are many that are not worth any effort because they're haters, but that's not all of the trump voters. We lost how many public offices, over 900 or something? Obviously, we need to step up our game.

[sheshe2]

91. Nope sorry.

Our base is African Americans and POC. Minorities. That is our focus.

[cemaphonic]

136. So we cede the PNW, New England, Minnesota and Colorado?

Sure the Democratic politicians should continue to defend and expand on minority concerns, but white people are a crucial part of the Democratic base too.

Arguing that the Democratic Party is the natural home of minorities, and the Republican Party is the natural home of white people plays directly into the hands of the Southern Strategy that the Repubs have cynically exploited for decades.

[alarimer]

170. That's a good way to keep losing, mathematically.

Write off more than half the country and you will continue to rack up losses. It may work to focus on cities for the presidential race, but that will certainly mean continues losses in Congress and in state legislatures.

And it's just divisive anyway.

[dalton99a]

28. Ok. How do we love them? Let's count the ways: (1) Build the wall, (2) Kill Obamacare, (3) ...

Sorry, Bernie. Democrats should not cater to nutjobs and racist assholes.

[Warpy]

32. Simmer down, folks, he's calling for the 50 state strategy

to support Democrats in places that aren't Massachusetts or California.

You don't like his rhetoric? No problem, as long as the party reinstitutes the plan that actually worked when Dean tried it.

Otherwise, welcome to irrelevancy as people vote for a party that actually listens to them even if that same party screws them later.

[JHan]

35. Which Democrat is not aware we need a 50 state strategy? Hasn't Ellison and Perez talked about this?

[Warpy]

37. Has Perez actually done anything about it?

Or is it all talk, as usual?

[JHan]

43. When was the vote* again?

[JTFrog]

65. Perez and Ellison are touring together starting on March 24th.

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/03/perez-ellison-democratic-national-committee-235840

Starting later this month, the pair will embark on what they are calling a “Democratic Turnaround Tour” that hits a collection of states that the party lost in 2016 and where there are ongoing races. The first stops, beginning March 24, are in Detroit and Flint, Michigan — where Hillary Clinton was the first Democrat to lose since 1988.

That trip will be followed by visits to Texas — where Democrats are looking to make inroads — and to the states that will hold the two gubernatorial races in 2017, New Jersey and Virginia.

Perez and Ellison are set to announce the tour on Wednesday night, less than two weeks after the former Labor secretary won the chairmanship and named the Minnesota congressman his deputy in Atlanta.

Now, their push to unify the party is heading to some of the states most vital to the Democrats' comeback strategy. When they are traveling, the duo will meet with local party members to talk about the importance of local organization — a key point in both of their campaigns for the chairmanship. But they will also push for Democrats to convey a positive economic message to respond to Trump, not simply an anti-Trump one like the party’s prevailing push during the 2016 campaign.

Perez’s platform hinges on the “50-state strategy” that would restock the party’s depleted ranks from the ground up.

Link to tweet

[Cha]

72. Thank you, Frog!

Link to tweet

[Cha]

71. You don't know what you're talking about.. please try to keep up and quit

insulting our DNC Chair with your gratuitous cheap pot shots.

Link to tweet

[Warpy]

99. I insulted no one. I asked if he's done anything about it.

It's a fair question.

It's been talked about for years. No one but Dean ever did anything about it.

[Cha]

106. you haven't been paying attention or you wouldn't have thrown your

cheap pot shot.

[Warpy]

109. I see. You'd rather insult than answer.

Goodbye.

[Cha]

110. You're the one who insulted Tom Perez and Keith Ellison.. I've been keeping

up with them.. it's very interesting how they're on a UNITY TOUR right now.

[LuvLoogie]

75. Perez is a life-long Democrat who is now DNC chair.

A person who himself has never been a Democrat, but constantly lectures on how to be a better Democrat, is by definition "all talk."

[Occulus]

59. Some here dislike ideas that work when they come from a particular source

It's a great way to keep losing.

[Cha]

151. Oh do they? what ideas are those? For our

Dems to go after the racist, homophobic, misogynistic, bigoted trump voters?

They're busy right now going after the fascist drumpfuckers and Russian oligarchs trying to take over the Planet.

Excuse us if we don't have time to pander to them.

[standingtall]

38. No

Democrats don't vote for Trump. He is calling for us kiss up to racist,class traitors and scabs.

[manicraven]

49. Umm...that's not correct. Studies are stating otherwise.

People who voted twice for Obama switched to trump. We lost areas we NEVER lose. Some people did not feel any economic recovery and were desperate. I don't think a pure racist would vote for Obama.

[standingtall]

53. False

There could not have been many people who voted Obama twice to vote for Trump. Clinton only got a couple hundred thousand less votes than Obama did in 2012. Trump lost the popular vote by almost 3 million,but still got more votes than any republican in history,because they were energized by his bigotry.


Obama got 69 million votes in 2008 and 65 million in 2012. Hilary also got 65 millions votes although a couple hundred thousand votes shy of Obama. The math does not support a large number of people who voted for Obama twice switching to vote for Trump regardless of whatever study your looking at says.

[dalton99a]

58. "only 7 percent of Obama voters flipped to support Trump, and the real number could be even less"

http://www.salon.com/2016/11/27/obama-to-trump-voters-are-not-a-myth-mdash-but-theyre-also-not-the-real-story/
Sunday, Nov 27, 2016 05:00 AM CST
Obama-to-Trump voters are not a myth — but they’re also not the real story
Yes, a tiny slice of the electorate went from Obama to Trump, but they don't explain how the Democrats went wrong
Sean McElwee

[manicraven]

47. Yes! Spot on! We lost 910 seats! We do need better outreach!

[Warpy]

103. Consider the worst Democrat in office right now, Manchin (D-WV)

He has a lifetime progressive vote percentage of 53% over at Progressive Punch.

The most liberal Republican, Susan Collins (R-ME) has a dismal 27%.

Somehow, I think most of us can live with this, although many of us would prefer to see better candidates than Manchin.

Oh, and stop fighting the primary. It's over.

[Cha]

89. Democrats Tom Perez and Keith Ellison have this.. I'm

sick of BS' lectures.

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[SammyWinstonJack]

111. +1000000!

[JHan]

36. yeah okay.

[SMC22307]

66. Glad to see you agree.

For without PA, WI and MI, we don't regain the White House. And magical thinking of Texas turning blue by 2020 doesn't count.

[JHan]

68. Most people do, there's already an acknowledgement we need to become a party of local government...

Howard Dean has said this, Ellison, Perez.. it isn't exactly Rocket Science. We've been far too focused on presidential elections.

Furthermore Democrats need to get out to vote. I don't need to be pushed to vote so there's alot of work dems and people such as ourselves who are passionate about civics, must do to reach out to voters.

Frankly this from Sanders, right now, is friendly fire. Democrats are aware of the problem.

[BainsBane]

159. I prefer a party that doesn't value a few thousand white male Republicans

over a million disenfranchised voters of color. Somehow Bernie never manages to mention them.

[Talk Is Cheap]

67. I agree with Senator Sanders - Dems need to be in the red states as well.

There are some real shitty republicans, but there are also some republicans
that we can work with. I'm talking about the citizen republican - not republican
politicians.

Talking from the truth and facts, and being relatively nice, can cause even
republicans to agree of some Dem points.

Not asking for miracles here - just asking to be more civil (even if it hurts your brain doing it).

And we should lay off all the hate in Sanders - he is one of the good guys in office.

[Cha]

78. Tom and Keith have this.. Democrats Perez, Ellison embark on unity tour

Link to tweet

[democrank]

92. Democrats HAVE neglected parts of this country

and that helps explain the giant sea of (mostly) red in between the two blue coasts. Starting today until the end of time we can remind one another how we won the popular vote, but what good will that do? Do we have the White House? No. The Senate? No. The House of Representatives? No. Are the majority of states under Democratic control? No.

How many state and federal seats have we lost in the last eight or so years? Over 1,000.

Something needs to change. We must convince certain potential voters to join with us: young people, those who usually don't vote, Independents, any Trump voters who are willing to listen, especially those who voted for Obama at least once. Scoff all you want, but there are more of those voters out here than some might think.

As for Bernie, I'm thrilled he's going to West Virginia next week and I hope he draws a big crowd and connects with the participants. I've been an active Democrat for over five decades, but Bernie's positions are in line with mine as much as any Democratic leader out there.

Trump voters aren't all the same.I prefer to believe we can reach some of them, maybe even in red states. Dean's 50-state strategy is the way to go, which would mean reaching out to voters not exactly like us. Unless we win the electoral college, our policies are, for the most part, DOA on a national level.

[hrmjustin]

101. Maybe Trump voters should show some reasons why they should be paid attention to!

[liquid diamond]

105. I bet most people calling for us

to court trump supporters are white. Fuck that. Maybe not all trump voters are racist but they KNEW HE WAS but voted for him anyway. I don't want their ilk in my party. Go pedal that shit at JPR.

[still_one]

113. Well said. What we need to go after the 47% who didn't vote for one reason or another

Going after the alt-right is a lost cause.

These are people who have been voting against their own interests for decades, even though they benefit from the Democratic programs such as Social Security, Medicare, and the ACA, because for whatever reason, their hate trumps everything else

[still_one]

108. NO!!!. Everyone who voted for trump knew he was a racist, sexist, and xenophobe, and they

still voted for him.

Every Democrat running for Senate in those critical swing states, lost to the ESTABLISHMENT, INCUMBENT, republican, and it WASN'T because the Democrats didn't appeal to trump voters. While the Comey/FBI interference, the media's distortions, and double standard, and Russian involvement was a big part of it, the fact that those who refused to vote for Hillary, by either voting third party, or not even bothering to vote, it was those 47% who didn't bother to vote where we need to go.

[JudyM]

164. There are plenty of people who voted for Obama and chose tRump. Should we give up on their future

votes?

[still_one]

178. The future isn't a trump supporter. The 47% who didn't vote are

[JudyM]

183. So voting for 45 is a litmus test for voters we should appeal to? Forget the ones who voted Obama?

[still_one]

184. Where we need to focus is on the 47% who didn't bother to vote. That is where

we will succeed with a "Howard Dean's" 50 state strategy in my view

Though I am extremely angry and disappointed at those who voted third party, I believe those voters at least have the self-realization to realize the disaster trump is, those who voted for trump don't regret it, because their motives were either based on hate, or putting their political party before the destruction of America

At MOST only 7% of those supposed Obama voters voted for trump, according to YouGov and that number might be considerably less.

and for some things I do want a litmus test. Civil Rights, Social Security, Medicare, and healthcare

[Starry Messenger]

118. Yawn.

[gwheezie]

120. I don't want anything to do with them

I do this k there are people who didn't vote we should go after but Trump voters, fuck 'em. Sure there might be a few here & there that might have just been pissed off the day they voted but I not willing to give up the base to appeal to these people. They voted for a con man, a racist, misogynist con man who sane people knew was going to destroy the country.

[CitizenZero]

130. Good Thread

Interesting topic.

[Tiggeroshii]

132. They voted for Trump. It's just a normal mistake anybody makes. Like dropping a baby on its' head.

...oh wait

[leftofcool]

133. Hey Bernie! Stop worrying about Trump voters and worry about Russia for a change

[Jim Lane]

138. I can worry about more than one thing -- and Bernie is smarter than I am. (n/t)

[BainsBane]

163. I have never heard Bernie mention Russian interference

Or the million voters of color disenfranchised by Republicans. He does, however, talk about how important white male Republicans are all the time. I don't share the view that being white and Republican makes someone more valuable than being black and oppressed. But that's just me. I'm one of these "establishment" Democrats that values "Third Way" issues like social justice, equality, and human rights.

And none of his prime-time TV specials seem to be in communities of color either. Why do you suppose that is? I welcome correction if I'm wrong about that.

[Jim Lane]

210. And we have yet ANOTHER straw man.

You write:

I don't share the view that being white and Republican makes someone more valuable than being black and oppressed.

Bernie didn't say that. The linked HuffPo article didn't say that he said that. I don't recall seeing anyone in this thread (or anywhere else on DU for that matter) say that.

So, fine, you go right on valiantly fighting the good fight against this racist view. You might want to go over to Discussionist or Free Republic, though. That's where your enemies actually are.

BTW, issues like social justice, equality, and human rights aren't "Third Way". That's another straw man; in real life, the people who criticize "Third Way" believe in those things. "Third Way" actually includes things like welfare "reform" and saying that "TPP sets the gold standard in trade agreements" -- link is at https://web.archive.org/web/20170119185257/https://www.state.gov/secretary/20092013clinton/rm/2012/11/200565.htm -- and opposing state recognition of same-sex marriage because "I think a marriage is as a marriage has always been, between a man and a woman." Fortunately, even some Democrats who once embraced such Third Way politics have come around to more progressive positions.

As to Bernie and communities of color, I read right here on DU that John Lewis never saw him at a civil rights event and that the photographic evidence of his role was faked and blah blah blah. So I guess that settles that. Sarcasm aside, I doubt there is any research I could do about Bernie Sanders and racial justice that would convince anyone whose mind is firmly set in hostility to him, and it would be refighting the primary anyway. Therefore, you may continue believing whatever you want on that score without any inconvenient facts from me.

[Cha]

150. Let BS go after the racist, misogynistic, homophobes.. Our Dems are doing

their jobs with the immediate danger of the fascists and Russian Oligarchs taking over the gd Planet.

[KPN]

148. Preach the truth Bernie!

Good on you.

[BainsBane]

161. Is Bernie ever going to mention the million or so

disenfranchised voters of color? Why is he so determined the Democratic Party cater to the right, while neglecting the disenfranchised?

I don't share the "truth" that a few thousand white male Republicans are worth more than a million people of color.

[KPN]

188. You create a false choice. In my opinion,

having watched/followed Bernie for about 15 years now and in the process learned a lot about him and his past, I feel like you are ignoring his personal history, accusing him of something he is not guilty of, and basically just maligning him because his focus does not exactly match yours. Anyone who questions Bernie's total support of equal rights for all is just plain off base. His message is 100% inclusive when it comes to people of color ... he doesn't differentiate. You can't get more non-racist than that.

You also wrongly attribute Bernie's targets as "white male Republicans".

[Cha]

149. You go after those racist, homophobic, misogynistic, bigoted, assholes, BS.. Our

Dems are little busy right now trying to fight off the fascist drumpfuckers and the Russian Oligarchs from taking over the gd Planet... in case you haven't noticed

[JustAnotherGen]

153. He needs to come to the NJ -7th district

There are plenty of Reds with Trump stickers here - and he could see if his approach has any impact - by using it in NJ's Trumplandia. He should note - it includes the 6th wealthiest county in America.

It's our "big" election year - now. If Sanders can flip the other Assembly seat in our District blue -he can help us repudiate the rest of the country that voted for Trump.

Some of those Trump voters here - were Obama voters. Wealthy in 80K souped up trucks with Trump stickers all over them.

[msanthrope]

154. I'm uninterested in what a white, male, non-Dem Senator from a racially-homogenized state has to

Last edited Fri Mar 10, 2017, 07:31 AM - Edit history (1)

say about...well, fuck....anything..... That means a large part of the Senate, for sure, but I'm far more interested in what Perez and Ellison, two PoCs, and Democrats, have to say.

This does not mean I have ill feelings towards BS and his opinions....I'm just not interested in what non-members have to say about the Democratic Party.

[Orsino]

156. It's a fair point. 50-state strategy was the way to go.

Heavily Trumpish areas call for careful messaging, though. If we're going to give, say, Appalachia the sound bites about abandoning coal, we have to be very clear about our plans to secure employment/incomes for affected families.

Maybe the heavily red areas don't need to be the highest priority. We can win witnout them--but we should be branding clearly everywhere.

[seaglass]

157. I don't know, he couldn't even get his BoBers to vote for the Democrat, not seeing

much effectiveness here. What does this say? That it is easier/more effective to get Trump voters to vote for a Democrat than those on the left?

I am in favor of engaging non-voters more than stupid racist misogynist people who voted for Trump. For getting our act together on gerrymandering and voter suppression. For eliminating the EC which everyone seems to be forgetting about but which screwed us twice.

[BainsBane]

160. Isn't that the truth.

If he couldn't convince his own supporters, he is hardly in a position to point fingers.

Also, if I want to convey a message to people I work with everyday, I speak to them directly. I don't make an announcement in the newspaper. It looks to me that Democratic representatives aren't his audience at all.

[kcr]

174. Good point

He's all talk.

[Jamaal510]

216. +1

[ismnotwasm]

173. I don't have to give bigotry a chance.

[George II]

176. The position he has that he's presumably using for all of these "town halls" and appearances...

....is Chairman of their "Outreach Committee", the function is to reach out to Democrats and potential Democrats to tell them how good the Democratic Party is.

Unfortunately all he's done in that position is "inreach", telling the Democratic Party over and over again how bad they are.

How is that going to encourage Democrats and uncommitted voters to get out and vote in upcoming elections?

[NurseJackie]

185. You're correct! It's NOT going to work...

How is that going to encourage Democrats and uncommitted voters to get out and vote in upcoming elections?

You're correct! It's NOT going to work. It's clear to me that he fails to understand what the actual assignment is ... what the goal is. (Or maybe he has some other goal in mind. It's hard to tell.)

Unfortunately all he's done in that position is "inreach", telling the Democratic Party over and over again how bad they are.

It's unclear to me what motivates him to behave in that way. In my opinion, this causes more harm than good, and I believe I now understand exactly why it is that so many members of the Democratic Party (actual Democrats) find him to be offensive and divisive. At least as far as his current words and actions go, he's struggling to find a unifying message, isn't he?

Personally, I cannot see how the approach he's taking will actually BRING IN or attract additional voters and party members. It's demoralizing. It's demotivating. It's destructive. And that's just for the people who call themselves Democrats.

[forjusticethunders]

204. pretty clear to me

It's unclear to me what motivates him to behave in that way.

He cannot stand that the Democratic Party focuses more on people of color rather than trying to go back to the 50s.

When someone tells you who they are, believe them. Bernie Sanders should be persona non grata to any principled leftist. Le Pen style welfare chauvinism is NOT FUCKING LEFTISM, and we should stop pretending it is.

[NurseJackie]

209. I do not disagree with you at all.

[heaven05]

187. So, according to the good Senator, I am to extend

a hand of friendship OR try to use common sense and logic on those, who IF they didn't know earlier in campaign season, but damn sure know now that boy-potus has people running this ship of state who are white supremacist racists, sexists, are giving the anti-semites around ameriKKKa the green light to harass children and innocents just because some ameriKKKan cowards are trying to create a 21st century pogrom against Jewish people. Reach out my hand to people who support this administration that is destroying hard working, law abiding immigrant families that have been here for 20 years or more, are xenophobic chicken hawk war mongers who now have the first contingents of Marines actively engaged in the Middle East shooting war in Syria/Iraq created by baby Bush and Cheney, chicken hawks who are also disrespectful of vets and current serving military who are in definite danger NOW of dying JUST BECAUSE the chicken hawk boy-potus wants to be a war prezident along with his co-prezidents bannon and miller. Extend a hand? NO THANKS, I don't want to draw back an amputated hand or invite a bullet into my brown skinned person

I won't go on with that perspective, I wouldn't want to ruffle certain sensibilities always prevalent here. No, Bernies advice to reach across some civil, bi-partisan political aisle/divide along with his supporters here advancing that advice have problems understanding and have a huge lack of experience with the reality that PoC, independent women, legal citizen deportees or with brown people being shot and killed who are now the american enemies of the ameriKKKans trying to make ameriKKKa white again.

You're telling me to extend a hand to a person with whom I have a more than 90% chance of bringing back an arm with that hand cut off, literally and figuratively? No thanks.

No thanks Bernie and supporters here, your reality IS NOT my reality or the living reality of hundreds of thousands now and more than likely millions by the time the nazi triumvirate RULING this country is finished making over ameriKKKa in their own white supremacist image. That with the help of a majority racist RW Congress, local RW politicians in every section of this country, brownshirts and their 21st century Gestapo agents who have been taking every right of every brown person that can vote, away and are working on taking much need medical care from MILLIONS with a huge con job to make the rich richer. And many of those who voted for the nazi triumvirate voted for their medical care to be taken...so be it. I still won't reach out a hand to those who cut off their noses to spite their faces for one reason only....racism.

No thanks. I don't enjoy the privilege or entitlement that causes many to continue to use your blindness to advise people on how they should proceed to be murdered or executed by reaching a hand out to the enemy who HATES me based on a criteria of skin color ONLY.

Good paying manufacturing jobs will NEVER return to this country, a decline that nixon and kissinger started with their overtures and openings to China. That started the manufacturing destruction in this country. No immigrant or PoC took any jobs from any white KKKristian. Thank nixon and atwater for immediate racist reaction to the Civil and Voting rights gains of the 60's with their 'Southern Strategy' that is continuing to this very day. Thank Reagan for union busting to the point that unions are a shadow of what was once a powerful protection for the american worker.

You can extend your hand, but no thanks from this corner of reality.

I'm done with Bernie and his supporters here advising me. No thanks. Go con others.

[ismnotwasm]

189. +1,000,000,000

Thank you so much for this post

[heaven05]

221. you are welcome

thank you...

[sheshe2]

218. +1000

Wish I could rec this post.

[heaven05]

220. thank you

sheshe.....

[workinclasszero]

190. Trump voters are racist haters and religious fanatics

Screw them, they will NEVER support anyone that claims to be a democrat, no matter how much their god emperor fucks them over!

Something like 40% of all eligible voters sat at home on election day. We need to reach these people much more than inbred racist mouth drooling Trump voters!

They are a lost cause!

[ismnotwasm]

192. A number of them are single issue voters. Anti-choice being a major culprit.

[workinclasszero]

214. Bingo

They will vote for outright fascists that will destroy freedom and democracy in this country forever on that alone!

Oh wait...they just did it!

[LAS14]

200. It's strategy, not sympathy!

Why, when someone points out that we're ignoring opportunities to expand our coalition, do so many react by saying they don't need our sympathy?

[Fluke a Snooker]

201. Only progressive policies can save us now

The south is infested with greedy capitalist white males whose sole existence is to keep everything for themselves. We need to negate THEIR vote by making sure that all immigrants are allowed to vote as long as they are in this country, and also allow for proxy voting for those here as well. This way we negate the GOP vote, and once our policies take effect, cement our policies through the judicial system, helping people without the chance that these racist pieces of cow patootie can subvert our will ever again. In short, don't appeal to them, ignore them and spite them instead.

[Blue_Tires]

202. Christ, not this shit again... Nope, sorry...

I'm too focused on my own survival under the Trump Junta to kiss ass and cater to the delicate feelings of some MAGA voter... The battle lines were drawn, a clear choice was presented between a highly qualified candidate and a blowhard celebrity carnival freakshow anti-candidate... So anyone who voted for or otherwise enabled this nightmare is an enemy and motherfuck whatever half-assed excuse card they want to play.

And as an aside, Bernie's Monday Morning Quarterback shtick is wearing thin... I'd much rather see Trump fought and obstructed full-scale before we play the fool's errand of turning maybe 5% his voters...

[MFM008]

206. I don't want to neglect them

I want to beat them with an axe.

[Initech]

215. After they pulled this shit yesterday? Hell no!!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141724806

Why should we play nice when they want us dead?

[Tom the Mechanic]

222. How Many of Us Say These Things on Consrvative Sites?

Here, we are all preaching to the choir.
Mixing ideas is good, but spreading them is better.

I am on two other sites, just speaking the truth.

Tip:
Just say some facts. Don't debate.

You are teaching them stuff they don't hear anywhere else.

Ignore the people that reply.

You are just educating the 100's of readers that DON'T reply.

Good things to post on conservative sites are:
1) Scary news FACTS. Conservatives love fear.
2) Quotes from the Constitution, Bill of Rights, etc.
3) Facts, facts, facts!

This is what the Tea Party did so well.
They just kept saying it out loud.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

223. K and R