General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsOfficial Rachel Maddow Show Watch Party thread!
I just ordered a bottle of whiskey.
uponit7771
(90,336 posts)JTFrog
(14,274 posts)uponit7771
(90,336 posts)JTFrog
(14,274 posts)The suspense is killing me!
uponit7771
(90,336 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)kstewart33
(6,551 posts)She's doing it because she knows her ratings tonight will be sky high, and she wants to tell them the entire story. She's doing a great job.
JTFrog
(14,274 posts)I really hate even getting my hopes up at this point, but.....
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)LenaBaby61
(6,974 posts)Agree ...
HOPE they're current FEDERAL taxes and not old/current State taxes.
LenaBaby61
(6,974 posts)demmiblue
(36,851 posts)Though I hope that I am pleasantly surprised tomorrow!
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)ailsagirl
(22,896 posts)Fearless
(18,421 posts)shenmue
(38,506 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Loki Liesmith
(4,602 posts)How interesting can it be?
scheming daemons
(25,487 posts)Loki Liesmith
(4,602 posts)Started recapitalizing him. But without the supplemental filings I don't know how much it will tell us.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Kaotic
(83 posts)around 2008 after none of the U.S. banks would loan him or anyone else $$.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Amaryllis
(9,524 posts)theglammistress
(348 posts)We've been waiting for this - ANY tax news really.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)L. Coyote
(51,129 posts)Yes, I've been in politics toooo long!
uponit7771
(90,336 posts)politicat
(9,808 posts)Definitely not in the income billionaire category.
If that's a good year, then he's not nearly as rich as he brands himself. (Though 2005 wasn't a great year - market was janky, lost about 200 points between 1/1/2005 and 12/31/2005. Real estate was flaky. That was a mini-recession year.)
If he's typical of most developers, he's leveraged to his hairline (the real one or the toupee one, doesn't matter) and has at least as much debt as assets. Often more. Income in real estate development is a result of churn, and it never sticks around for long. We don't have his debt statements.
We can't forget that around $42M of that income was "work" income -- $3M an episode for 14 episodes. That wasn't business/investment income. It was from the sideshow.
I think the takeaway may be -- he's not as rich as he says he is. Not if that's a good year.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)bdamomma
(63,849 posts)better watch his back. He knows tRump well.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)True Dough
(17,304 posts)FAKE TAXES!!!
uponit7771
(90,336 posts)itsrobert
(14,157 posts)Or she is trying to hold back her emotions?
Amaryllis
(9,524 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)uponit7771
(90,336 posts)PatSeg
(47,430 posts)That's how I'd be.
itsrobert
(14,157 posts)she's setting it up nicely (I hope)
chillfactor
(7,575 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)uponit7771
(90,336 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Cheated.
Going over history and context - HRC's taxes are seen back to 1997.
DT lied about the audit, IRS says it's not a reason.
And all candidates have released since Nixon.
MFM008
(19,808 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Amaryllis
(9,524 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Amaryllis
(9,524 posts)second half when i get home.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)JudyM
(29,241 posts)Baitball Blogger
(46,705 posts)Nothing new yet, nine minutes in. She is teasing, I think, showing how the tax records could enlighten us regarding many of the sweet deals that we already know about.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)BannonsLiver
(16,386 posts)Every night she begins with a segment roughly 20 minutes that is a deep dive into one subject, usually by way of a circular route as far as her rhetorical style. Some people don't like that, but I usually appreciate the added context. She's really not doing anything different with tonight's show.
uponit7771
(90,336 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)nolabear
(41,963 posts)This has been in the works for some time.
stillsoleft
(80 posts)And worth the risk. Everyone is watching
WiffenPoof
(2,404 posts)Potential money laundering.
Amaryllis
(9,524 posts)WiffenPoof
(2,404 posts)...to God's ears
bdamomma
(63,849 posts)around rumps groin area.
Greywing
(1,124 posts)and Deutsche Bank ... that's why WH moved so fast (move along, nothing to see here)
riversedge
(70,215 posts)first piece.
malaise
(268,993 posts)I love lemon meringue pie
riversedge
(70,215 posts)malaise
(268,993 posts)Used to make it a lot
riversedge
(70,215 posts)the folks getting the smelt said it is a slow year--water too cold yet (it has been only 2 to 3 degrees above zero last several days here). Anyway, had these fresh lemons to use up (will have to get more for next week--hope the smelt are running).
malaise
(268,993 posts)make some lemonade
bdamomma
(63,849 posts)that sounds yummy! enjoy.
WiffenPoof
(2,404 posts)Or is she just winging it?
uponit7771
(90,336 posts)... and might as well go through some of the hard evidence
Baitball Blogger
(46,705 posts)But, she does seem like she's building up to something. She keeps asking questions and concluding that the tax returns might be able to provide information.
nolabear
(41,963 posts)Amaryllis
(9,524 posts)but probably has to be scripted for legal purposes. Sure it gets run by their lawyers.
malaise
(268,993 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Baitball Blogger
(46,705 posts)WiffenPoof
(2,404 posts)Shitting his clown pants.
Amaryllis
(9,524 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)monmouth4
(9,700 posts)True Dough
(17,304 posts)via the microwave in Rachel's studio!
Equinox Moon
(6,344 posts)We will never know.
babylonsister
(171,065 posts)the pressure up until he releases those tax returns. ALL of them.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)babylonsister
(171,065 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Unrelenting pressure to release them.
Kaotic
(83 posts)there. The Ruskies got involved with Trump after the financial markets went into meltdown and Donnie boy needed a bailout.
Kaotic
(83 posts)zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
Kingofalldems
(38,456 posts)Amaryllis
(9,524 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)Unfortunately.
WiffenPoof
(2,404 posts)...that I don't mind a long set up by Rachel. She has the audience tonight... Perfect time to review and connect the dots.
So far, so good.
bdamomma
(63,849 posts)Karma. ha! this ought to be good.
uponit7771
(90,336 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)uponit7771
(90,336 posts)D_Master81
(1,822 posts)if that dailybeast article is correct, its basically saying what i said it would be, he made a ton of money and paid around 20% in taxes. this wont change any minds
riversedge
(70,215 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)riversedge
(70,215 posts)someone above my thinking scale gets a glue as to where more might be or if any good information can be gleamed from these 2 pages.
On another note, I think the White Houses indignation on this return is fake. I think Donald released them. After all, it showed he did pay millions of taxes. IMHO. No evidence, just a hunch.
elleng
(130,895 posts)She notes First Amendment gives her/MSNBC right to publish it.
uponit7771
(90,336 posts)pangaia
(24,324 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)As expected.
WiffenPoof
(2,404 posts)riversedge
(70,215 posts)tax filing.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)No useful information.
riversedge
(70,215 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Kaotic
(83 posts)Why only 2 pages? If you have the return to leak you would leak the WHOLE return. This is a big nothingburger.
Nothing in this return makes him look bad...it quiets the angry mob plus he get's to bash the dishonest media for leaking it.
riversedge
(70,215 posts)Kaotic
(83 posts)Why only 2 pages? If you have the return to leak you would leak the WHOLE return.
Nothing in this return makes him look bad...it quiets the angry mob plus he get's to bash the dishonest media for leaking it.
calimary
(81,261 posts)I noticed that, too. Somebody with 500 businesses and all kinds of convolutions (and possibly money laundering) over several decades would NOT be able to fit it into two pages, would they?
JenniferJuniper
(4,512 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)And DT wants to get rid of that.
ffr
(22,669 posts)Fixed.
Takket
(21,565 posts)nothing here the hurts 45 at all.
but she's making a good point that it is absurd that this is all we have.
no_hypocrisy
(46,101 posts)More or less speculation of what's NOT on the tax return.
If MSNBC had more information, they're withholding, perhaps after the WH raised a squawk about illegality.
Kaotic
(83 posts)Why only 2 pages? If you have the return to leak you would leak the WHOLE return.
Nothing in this return makes him look bad...it quiets the angry mob plus he get's to bash the dishonest media for leaking it.
pangaia
(24,324 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)TimeToGo
(1,366 posts)Now he can say, see?
If she wanted to educate -- she could have explained what we have, and then talked about the importance of getting all the returns. Not spend all that time building.
And you don't tweet it out -- raising all these expectations.
Kaotic
(83 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)TimeToGo
(1,366 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)And why it appears so shady he has not.
TimeToGo
(1,366 posts)And good for her. But she had nothing. And now it will be spun that there is nothing.
As I said, talk about the return for a couple of minutes, and then spend time talking about how this is not enough and give the reasons that you point out.
But she knew she had nothing before promoting the show. So, that's on her.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Price false the allegations of being beholden to foreign powers. I thought she put out a great recap of the last couple of months reporting for new viewers.
Lucky Luciano
(11,255 posts)...but it was overplayed. I actually turned on MSNBC and I never watch tv news.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Lucky Luciano
(11,255 posts)feel like much has changed. A bullet point of info for me. Hopefully the rabbit hole goes much deeper...and I will be thrilled if she goes further down that rabbit hole which she will definitely try to do.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)In real detail what answers we need and why it's crucial.
I get that for you and me it's like a rerun, but I don't mind if she managed to get a whole lot of new eyes on the whole thing. I thought the summary of connections and possible self dealing was really good even though none was new to me. I know people who never or rarely watch will tune in.
HoneyBadger
(2,297 posts)Guessing that whoever provided it, did so requiring that it be publicized. If their requirements were met, perhaps they will leak the next piece.
JenniferJuniper
(4,512 posts)DeminPennswoods
(15,286 posts)nt
JenniferJuniper
(4,512 posts)Current headline
I know they don't want to mention MSNBC, but this is clearly implying this came from the WH first. Whether that is true or not who knows, but even Rachel's guest said he wouldn't be surprised if these pages came from Trump.
DeminPennswoods
(15,286 posts)Maddow said MSNBC sent a copy to the WH asking them to confirm they were indeed Trump's 2005 returns.
That's why info/statement came from WH came first - they're trying to get in front of the story.
JenniferJuniper
(4,512 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Which explains why we need much more info on sources of income.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)We need to know income sources.
elmac
(4,642 posts)a shiny object to keep people focused on anything but Russia and his crime boss putin. 12 yr old, come on, its before the crash.
ffr
(22,669 posts)Hope it's all tied out nicely to bridge the gaps between 2006 and 2016's Russian collusion.
DeminPennswoods
(15,286 posts)First, Rachel's right that Trump's tax returns are in a lot of places, not just at the IRS. And, if someone leaked the 1040 form, the chances are increasing that more returns will turn up.
Second, look at the WH response. It confirms the info, but goes on to try and sound threatening to others who might send copies of tax info to reporters. That tells me the WH is thinking along the same lines as Maddow.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)She covered a shit ton of connections and had a lot of new viewers tonight.
moonscape
(4,673 posts)Ah, editing to say I get it. Was gone all day and just catching up!
Tatiana
(14,167 posts)Rachel essentially gave cover to one of dozens of individuals who may have copies of Trump's previous tax returns to release them. And, she expressed in no uncertain terms why it was important for the public to have access to the information.
If there are some low-level unaware people involved who have access to the returns, Rachel allowed her guest to spell out exactly what we needed to see.
Plus, she has the WH in a panic thinking that she may be getting close to what they are trying to hide. That White House statement was ridiculously long and lacking in professionalism. It sounded slightly panicked.
So... I'm waiting for the patriot to step forward and leak the information. Now that they know what to leak and understand that it can be published by a journalist under the 1st Amendment.
Tonight's show really felt like it was meant for someone(s) in particular.
grantcart
(53,061 posts)i
Madam45for2923
(7,178 posts)HoneyBadger
(2,297 posts)It is illegal to publish actual returns. So maybe the leaker copied the exact info to another blank form. Or tweaked the numbers by an insignificant digit. Enough for Maddie to question the validity. Enough for everyone to avoid jail. By the White House validating the round numbers, but not the returns, they appear to know this. Gives the leaker and Maddow mutual credibility. What next? What role is the White House playing in this?
TimeToGo
(1,366 posts)Says . . .?
HoneyBadger
(2,297 posts)mnhtnbb
(31,388 posts)The press has the right to publish them--covered by the 1st amendment.
Trump's lawyers have argued (about the state returns that appeared last fall) that it was illegal to publish
them but have gotten no where with that argument.
moonscape
(4,673 posts)Assoc. It shows him actually paying taxes, something he didn't do for prior years. It shows him actually making $$, which many other years might well not. It comes as diversion from health care and leading into tax 'reform' - and the WH doesn't sound pissed off enough.
Granted, I haven't been home long from a day away w/ no media and am catching up and didn't watch Rachel, but ...
ancianita
(36,055 posts)Bayard
(22,069 posts)Wasn't much there. No schedules, and from 2005. But, its getting all kinds of, "Breaking News" hype.
Another case of--Look over here at this sparkly thing, instead of focusing on Russia. Rachel has repeatedly shown she can do a lot better than this.