Caroline Kennedy Schlossberg...

[Heartstrings]

Could she be our first, "baggage free", exceptional lineage, potential POTUS? Thinking of that possibility, with Joe Kennedy III raging on for us, gives me some hope in these dark times.

[Me.]

1. Interesting

I'd vote for her, she was an excellent ambassador, has executive experience and good politics

[Demsrule86]

4. I just found that out when I googled her...I didn't know that.

So she has some experience...and if she is an ambassador...no doubt her political skills have improved since the Senate run.

[Me.]

9. Hugely Popular In Japan As Our Ambassador

[Demsrule86]

60. There are no open seats right now unless she wants to run for Congress.

[Me.]

61. Oh For Heaven's Sake

This was simply conjecture by those willing to go there, there has been nothing from her that indicates she wants to run for anything.

[Demsrule86]

73. Just responding.

[ATL Ebony]

2. Either one works for me but biased towards Joe.

[Demsrule86]

3. She didn't do well in the Senate campaign some years back.

She doesn't seem to have the family political charisma and has not held office...but she seems like a good person from the little I know...what does she have to offer other than the Kennedy name? Not being snarky...genuinely curious. In the meantime, I will google her.

[PoliticAverse]

27. Yeah it was such a non campaign many people have even forgotten about it. n/t

[mchill]

35. What I remember most about her run in NY

Every other word was "UM," and that was extremely annoying. I heard her speak recently and didn't hear that. But she can't, or should she not, run against Chuck Schumer or Kristen Hillenbrand.

[jodymarie aimee]

37. Exactly, poor speaker

but that didn't stop the current POTUS....

[Demsrule86]

44. I doubt the Russians would help her.

[nikibatts]

58. Compared to...??

[Demsrule86]

43. Absolutely not...we do not need to primary Dems in blue states...it is suicidal..agree completely.

[lunamagica]

50. Yes, I remember that, and the many, many you knows. I was surprised that someone with her upbringing

could be so inarticulate

[Exultant Democracy]

5. lineage? WTF, seriously wtf.

I can't even, this shit was already old in 1215.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

11. You can be great. You can be wonderful. You can be all that is good. But you have to get elected.

Her Senate campaign was a debacle.

[Exultant Democracy]

16. I think she is delightful, but dynasties are not democratic

And yes her inability to win elected office is also disqualifying, but thinking we should elect someone because of the family they were born into is Just flabbergasting.

[LanternWaste]

45. You see, voting against a person due only to blood is, at its very best, irrational.

"but dynasties are not democratic...

Neither is denial of a candidate due solely to genetics. But there you are indicting six of one, defending half a dozen of the other. Flabbergasting, indeed...

You see, voting for or against a person due only to blood is, at its very best, irrational.

[Exultant Democracy]

49. The OP cited "exceptional lineage" my post is a response to that nonsense.

I'm all for voting for someone on their own merits. I've voted for more than one Kennedy but never because of their lineage. The very idea of an "exceptional lineage" is offensive.

Do you really think their is any rhetorical value to you responding to my statement as if it isn't in context of the conversation the OP started? Did you even read the OP? If so how did you miss the "exceptional lineage" part I was responding too?

[Alice11111]

29. Absolutely. We need someone who will get elected.

This is not the time to pay tribute to JFK. I like her and respect her, but she is not electable. She had to drop out from a Senate race.

If we dont get real about who can beat the Repubs, we will be in this downward spiral forever.

[DFW]

62. She was involved in the Magna Carta?

Just checking......

[Exultant Democracy]

64. I'm referring to dynastic bullshit

It's tried and old, done been tired and old for centuries. It isn't how to run a government or how to pick our party standard-bearers.

[BeyondGeography]

6. Winner of the Martha Coakley Charisma Award

Um, um. Um.

[Me.]

8. And Look Where Charisma Has Gotten Us

[BeyondGeography]

10. Look where lack of charisma has got us

[Me.]

12. Are You Referring To HRC

& her 3 million more votes?

[JI7]

14. caroline doesnt have hrc appeal

[Me.]

17. The Thing Is

We really don't know. She was untried with the senate race thing and frankly I'm thrilled with how that situation shook out. As for her being a presidential candidate, I'm willing to watch and listen, not discount her out of hand. Could she do any worse than what we have now? Don't think so, for one thing, she's a moral human being with a lot more decent pull than 45. Is there someone better? Could be, we'll have to see how things shake out. One thing, I'm betting she's not even thinking of a run.

[JI7]

42. we do know . her lack of appeal is why she had to drop kut

[LanternWaste]

47. like FDR losing his run as VP to Coolidge.

One election cements status to a lazy mind.

No doubt, if we look at one and only one election of any progressive politician, we'd compel them to drop out... like FDR losing his run as VP to Coolidge.

They said he lacked appeal. They were idiots. But that was then, and now many distinctions lacking a relevant difference will be made to rationalize the irrational.

[Exultant Democracy]

18. And where did getting 3 million more informed voters get us?

Elections swing on uninformed voters and those are the 77k you need charisma to get. Let's be clear only the dumbest people who decide to vote get to decide who is POTUS. Too many elections have been decided by afternoon rain to pretend otherwise.

Look at the hype around P. Obama, most of us who knew anything knew his positions were just about the same as HRC, yet he fired the imagination in a way HRC couldn't in 2008 and once again didn't in 2016.

They can only steal elections when they are close. How many times do democrats need to learn this, you would have thought 2000 was the wake up call.

[Me.]

19. I Don't Even Know How To Respond To This POst

[Exultant Democracy]

21. Every data point we have says HRC voters were better eductated and informed

Which is a round about way of saying charism wasn't a factor in their voting but logic and reason. So touting 3 million votes that didn't help us win anything and had nothing to do with charism seems pretty absurd. We freaking lost to a rodeo clown.

[JHan]

23. How many voters need to understand that you should not depend on a politician to "inspire" you ..

to vote.

that's what civic minded souls need to think about - how to engage and support folks to get out and vote.

There are a bunch of boring elections that take place that democrats ignore to their peril: see this post. http://www.democraticunderground.com/10028799984

Voting is my civic responsibility. I don't need a politician to "inspire" me to vote - and whenever I can, I engage with people who may feel despondent about politics to understand that they MUST be engaged. That's what I'm focused on.

[Exultant Democracy]

24. How many, at least 77k. Do we want to be right or do we want to win?

Smart people with the means have been fleeing the new red states, leaving just enough of a stupid majority to screw us all.

Plenty of good people in those rust belt states but they got a handful of republican govs and enough legislative control to make them hellscapes. Flint still doesn't have clean drinking water, how many thousand stars of the vote we needed moved out of that city alone? The blue flight has been enough to tip the scales to make things very scary while we wait for the demographics to tip elsewhere.

[JHan]

26. Most people on this board would agree with all that, you're preaching to the choir..

however it doesn't address my point...

We have to stop focusing SO MUCh on the individual charisma or lackthereof of a Presidential candidate and focus much more on real grassroots activism where we understand all politics is ( first of all) local. I would have thought that Obama's second term taught us that you could have all the charisma in the world, but if you're a Democratic President without support from Dems in congress and by extension, Dem Governors in States, you're hamstringed.

In fact everything you described proves my point: Civic awareness has never ever been more critical, it doesn't help when Democrats opt out of voting - Using silly excuses like "my candidate wasn't inspirational" or some other nonsense. There are lots of boring elections that take place which have a greater impact on people's day to day which dems ignore. You'd think we'd have learned from 2010.. I guess not.

[Exultant Democracy]

38. Have I missed the SEIU and AFL-CIO sitting on their hands?

The Democratic Party is the only party doing real grassroots activisms the last time I checked. We didn't lose the door knocking race, we lost the money race. Unfortunately for all of us our billionaire class isn't made up of our best and brightest, one Koch brother hardly managed to graduate high school. We actually need someone who will inspire the rich dicks who should be on our side to get involved. I would say look at CO as a micro example of what can be done, Jared Polis by power of charism built the money train that turned that state federally blue and deep purple at the state level.

I'll agree getting ride of Dean and hiring Rahm were the two worst moves Obama could have made to start out his term as far as health of the party and outreach go. However timing with the census was going to hurt no matter what. The good news is that the stars line up in 2020 and we have another 2006 brewing up for 2018. If the first Obama presidential election had been in 2010 and not a midterm we wouldn't be in half as much trouble today. But just like the stupid American electorate the calander is beyond our ability to change.

Should money decided who controls the state legislatures, no of course not, but it does. We have to play the ball where it lies. The demographics will tip our way soon, but not soon enough considering the state of climate change. Citizen United is the law of the land and that won't change until we win an election either. We have to win big in 2020 and cut the republicans off at the knees for 2022. No more Playing Mr. Nice Obama and not looking backwards once we get back into power, throwing the hard elbow is the only way forward.

[JHan]

41. again you're pointing out things already agreed upon..

and you've acknowledged that we need a 50 state strategy.

still, it goes beyond "inspiration" - we have a crisis on our hands where people are NOT engaged , whether it's due to voter suppression or plain ignorance. We have to work on that. Lots of fuss is being made about reaching out to Trump voters when we ought to be figuring out why so many opt out of the process - the story is in these small elections I mentioned a while back. And we're gonna have to care since the Republicans are intent on getting away with disenfranchising as many voters as possible.

[LanternWaste]

48. You've gazed into the abyss a wee bit too long.

" Do we want to be right or do we want to win?"

You've gazed into the abyss a wee bit too long. I'm sure you'll rationalize it as an absolute good, though-- your bias will force you to. Good luck with that.

[Exultant Democracy]

51. Good job with the ad hominem. While your attacking me perosnally

Would you elucidate us with exactly what my bias is that is forcing me into things? Is it a logic based bias?
One would assume that the person who relies on logical falliacies and personal attacks to score cheap points is the one with the irrational viewpoints.

[JI7]

46. you can't ignore the role of russian hack and comey

Clinton would have won in 2008 also. Obama lost votes from 2008 to 2012 . After 8 years of dems this was always going to be tougher.

But without comey she would have won .

[Exultant Democracy]

53. Agreed, but it wasn't informed voters who were swayed

It was people who never got excited about her and stayed home and dunces that it gave the cover to drink the Stein koolaid.

They can only steal an election when it is close. The best person lost we can all agree in that. Pretending that she was the charismatic candidate because she won 3 million more votes won't help us win anything in the future. Those 3 million people voted smart, we need to turn out the 77k who stayed home because we didn't get their heart.

[JI7]

56. we don't need to pretend anything. the millions more she got is real

Obama should have won landslide like Reagan if it was just about charisma but it isn't.

[Alice11111]

34. Agree. We live in a sound bite world w short attention spans

Do we want to get the Repubs out or virtuously cling to people who don't, for whatever reason, fair or not, have enough appeal to get elected.

We need to get the most qualified person possible who can beat the Repubs. If he or she can't win the EC, it doesn't matter how qualified. We already had the most qualified person ever. We can expect cheating and all of that again, but it will take new forms of surprise, as well as the same old stuff. We should fight it, but expect it. These people don't play fair, and they haven't in decades. They get worse. So, why are we so surprised and unprepared to deal with it. Fool me4 times!?

[Exultant Democracy]

54. Exactly, we would have had POTUS' Gore and HRC in a real democracy

Or if the other side played by the same rules we do. How many more important elections do we need to lose before we get the message.

[Alice11111]

65. Well said

[Warren DeMontague]

72. The last two Democrats who won the white house both came from obscure, middle class backgrounds.

Single mothers, no famous "lineage" to speak of.

[PoliticAverse]

28. It got Obama in the White House for 8 years. n/t

[Warren DeMontague]

69. The last President had a funny last name no one had heard of, and charisma out the wazoo.

So what is your point, again?

[Yavin4]

7. I saw her speak at an event once.

She was terrible. Just awful.

[Phoenix61]

13. No, no, no

We need someone new.

[Happyhippychick]

15. I like the idea of Caroline, I just don't like the reality of Caroline.

The reality is that she is painful to listen to, she is not just uncharismatic, she is painful.

I wish she wasn't but it's hard to get excited about her.

[crazylikafox]

20. NO. Most younger people don't remember & identify with the old Kennedy Charisma.

This would be a sentimental choice for old people.

And I say this as an old person. There are much better choices out there. This isn't one of them.

[hollowdweller]

22. I would like a non royal family candidate.

Tired of the Bush's, Clinton, Kennedy's etc.

I think we need to move away from families involved in politics who partly get voted for because of their name.

I feel like Trump wants to decimate government programs and employees and then have us and Russia run the world like the royals of the middle ages.

I think the dems should resist the royal family thing even though I think Caroline is great and that Chelesea Clinton would be good.

[jodymarie aimee]

40. I would like

no apostrophes....plural....

[Ms. Toad]

25. You say, "exceptional lineage" like it is a good thing. n/t

[JHan]

30. what's wrong with it ? ( Just curious)

[Ms. Toad]

57. I don't know that anything is WRONG with it, but it is not an attribute I would list

as a reason for someone being a good candidate anymore than I would list "red hair" as a qualifying characteristic for a candidate. It should make no difference at all.

If being that close to the workings of governance actually creates characteristics that are desireable, identify those characteristics - not as a description of presumptive right to the throne.

[JHan]

59. i hear you. agreed and...

If being that close to the workings of governance actually creates characteristics that are desireable, identify those characteristics - not as a description of presumptive right to the throne.

Yep.

[Warren DeMontague]

71. I think whats wrong with it is the people who think we need a magic last name to win elections.

I have nothing against Caroline per se. By all accounts she has good taste in music.

[milestogo]

31. Baggage free?

Being a Kennedy is a whole lot of baggage.

[delisen]

32. I want candidates with "baggage" Means they are so strong for the people that the

opposition wants to crush them.

[Hekate]

33. No

[smirkymonkey]

36. I'm sure she is a nice, respectable person, but would make a

weak candidate. She's very inarticulate and uninspiring.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

39. Hmmmm. no. Almost zero, perhaps less than zero charisma. Doesn't make her bad

of course - just makes her a very bad choice - IMHO

[Fla Dem]

52. While I have great respect for many members of that family, and like Caroline, she just doesn't

have the chops to be a politician. Nothing in any of her public appearances would suggest she has the "fire in your belly mindset" to aggressively pursue a political position. And as another person noted, while she is an OK speaker, she would not capture a crowd with her delivery.

[Orsino]

55. Can we please, please, please cut it out with the dynasties? n/t

[kwassa]

63. Absolutely not.

She has no political skills, no charisma. We need a new younger generation of leaders anyways.

[Heartstrings]

66. In response

Great discussions...some very valid points to consider...

[marlakay]

67. As much as I like her

I find myself wondering how many Americans think a president should be a man? I would hate to lose again because of that.

Had a talk with someone just today about that, something no one would admit to. Especially in religious homes and rural areas.

It might not have been Hillary personally but just the fact that she was a woman.

And that makes me sad because I think women make great leaders.

[Lee-Lee]

68. Who you are related to is NOT a qualification

I don't understand why so many people who are supposed to be intellectual progressives get googly eyed when they see a person just because they happen to share some DNA markers with a person they liked.

It's nonsense and foolish, and a half step away from celebrity worship.

[Warren DeMontague]

70. ...