I think our country is at the edge of a cliff

[Horse with no Name]

I think that the ones in the meeting yesterday got news that will rock ua to rhe core and the decision of what to do is one that doesn't have any good solutions.
Our country, our democracy....is all in serious peril.
To expose it might bring us to our knees and make us vulnerable.
To not expose it might make us less vulnerable.
I hope the press rises to their Constitutional duty because there is nothing more patronizing than the truth being hidden from us "for our own good".
Nothing good comes from secrets in the dark. The only way to survive is by the light of truth.
I would rather be pained with the truth than placated by the lie.

[libtodeath]

1. The scary thing is that the madman is still considered cic.

Would he order the military to take action against congress and would they obey?

[RKP5637]

6. I think what might be more probable is he will launch an attack against North Korea that will

escalate into a major war ... hard to tell where it could end and what level of weapons might be employed. Fortunately, our military has a better head on their shoulders and it's probable he will be replaced as commander in chief. That said, it could lead to very shaky times in the US. This madman has brought this country to the edge of a cliff in a very short time.

[bathroommonkey76]

33. I think you're right.

I don't recall this kind of build-up during Clinton, Bush, or Obama's presidency.

US to deploy missile-capable drones across border from North Korea


The US has declared it will permanently station missile-capable drones in South Korea in the latest round of military escalation in north-eastern Asia.

The drone deployment comes a week after North Korea carried out a test salvo of four missiles that landed off the coast of Japan, and a day before the US secretary of state, Rex Tillerson, embarks on a tour of a region widely regarded as the most dangerous corner of the world.

The US military in South Korea took the unusual step of publicly announcing the deployment of a company of Grey Eagle drones, which it said would add “significant intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance capability” for American and South Korean forces.

Grey Eagles, the army’s enhanced version of the Predator drone, are designed to carry Hellfire missiles and, together with the deployment of Thaad anti-ballistic missile defences in South Korea, they represent a significant build-up of US military muscle in response to an accelerated programme of missile and nuclear testing by the North Korean regime.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/mar/14/us-to-deploy-missile-capable-drones-across-border-from-north-korea

[Kimchijeon]

37. Yes, I am really afraid of that, with North Korea

We can only hope that the military would not go along with him.

[truebluegreen]

36. What's really scary

Is that a guy called Mad Dog is the sanest one in the room.

[wishstar]

2. Handful of people will decide if truth and democratic values prevail

I am not overly optimistic knowing history of silenced and curtailed federal investigations involving foreign influence and national security- very likely we will have to wait and work towards next elections. Glad though, for the patriotic leakers that give me hope.

[2naSalit]

3. Are we in danger

of nuclear attack if we don't let the cheato have his way with us? That's what I wonder. OR... is it that the wall streeters will crash the economy for the foreseeable future if we don't let them have it all? OR... is it both, all of the above?

[world wide wally]

4. I think Comey told them the seriousness of having the Putin in power, but he can't discuss it

in public hearings because it is classified information. Now, if it was about Hillary...

Seems like FBI logic anyway.

[bdamomma]

17. Your comment sounds

plausible the possibility could send shock waves everywhere. Dianne Feinstein looked horrible when she and Grassley were being interviewed yesterday. I really don't think it is healthy for us not to know the truth, we need to know. They probably think if the information was shared with us it would put everyone in a panic state. I would still like to know.

What do DU'ers think?

[world wide wally]

21. I think we NEED to know

[world wide wally]

5. I keep hoping they gave Trump the wrong codes because he is obviously mentally disturbed

[RKP5637]

7. Same here! I wonder if there is a second level of command if a deranged president orders an attack

that is clearly an insane nuclear attack his order can be refused. FFS, I hope so.

[Greybnk48]

8. If they keep secret what's been done,

it can be more easily done again. That was the point of the completely televised Watergate hearings with everything being discovered publicly. John Dean sitting there telling the truth will never leave me.

[libtodeath]

19. Remember Dallas 1963 though.

[tblue37]

38. And the 9/11 commission. Cover up. nt

[JNelson6563]

9. One might say we're on a precipice.

[yurbud]

11. We are on the precipice taking an adult view of our presidents

They should not be on a pedestal.

They are doing a job for us, and when they prove unfit, or compromised, they should be removed, and punished if they committed serious crimes.

They usually aren't because it might expose who they were acting for.

[JNelson6563]

16. Which way will we fall?

Time will tell.

[bdamomma]

20. Just my opinion

but any President defends the Constitution of the United States, but now due to non reality facts are getting misconstrued the President is above Country which is totally wrong. It has only been for those who believe in the Constitution to have country first and foremost.

[yurbud]

10. this will be tough for Dems since they have been reluctant to punish presidents since Watergate

they let Reagan off the hook for the October Surprise and Iran Contra. They Papa Bush off the hook for Iran Contra. They let Baby Bush off the hook for Iraq War lies, torture, and more.

The difference in this case is if Trump actively solicited the help of the Russians to win the election, it was against the Washington Consensus for conflict with Russia.

Reagan and the Bushes' sins were either for the financial elite or at least didn't mess with their plans.

Trump is an embarrassment in any case, and I will be glad to see him go.

[KingCharlemagne]

24. The Democratic and Republican parties both serve the interests of

Capital. Both are capitalist parties for whom the preservation of capitalism takes precedence over all other values. As a fascist, Trump represents a decadent and decrepit form of capitalism. But the Dems are still serving as a capitalist party.

[RKP5637]

39. Well said!!! n/t

[yurbud]

47. so in other words, you don't think they will do anything?

[KingCharlemagne]

48. Ever since Pekosi took impeachment "off the table" in 2006 (before Conyers'

House Judiciary Committee held a single hearing, mind you), I've shed the illusion that the Dems will hold a yobe to account who doesn't threaten the smooth functioning of capital. This was confirmed during Obama's "forward-looking" first two years in office. Nothing has happened since to alter that judgment.

[yurbud]

49. Trump's "no need for conflict with Russia" stance seemed to contradict what capital wanted

to the extent he's given that up, Dems may no longer be serious about getting rid of him.

Or they are following their usual strategy from at least Baby Bush forward: let GOP fuck everything up, and then Dems will win again by default.

The problem with grading on a curve though is sometimes the best grade in class is below 60%.

[KingCharlemagne]

51. As I see it, there are competing centers within the capitalist realm, each

with its vision for what will best promote a capitalist order. The Mercers backed Trump, whereas the Kochs backed Walker and Soros backed Hillary.

Since the Russian Federation is now a capitalist-imperialist state, as is the People's Republic of China (not so much imperialist but definitely capitalist), it's difficult to say with any exactitude which capitalists favor rapprochement with Russia and which favor confrontation.

[yurbud]

57. I think the difference isn't abstract, but a matter of who stands to profit from what

It's also odd that banking interests don't figure more prominently in the coverage of these machinations.

Russia, China, and Iran are not fully obedient Anglo-American banking order like past targets Iraq, Libya, and Syria.

The only way rapproachment with Russia made sense was if it was a temporary "divide and conquer" strategy to break China first, then circle back to Russia.

[KingCharlemagne]

58. Those are all valid points you raise. 1.6 billion Chinese may have something

to say as to whether we break China first. Taking a page from Norman Mailer, I suspect that one of the real motivations for invading and occupying Iraq back in 2003 was the goal of keeping our thumb on the spigot of Iraqi oil production, so as to exert strategic leverage over the emerging economies of China and India and their respective ruling elites. Didn't wok out as our 'great thinkers' had planned. Given Obama's unwillingness to launch criminal proceedings against BushCo, I doubt we shall ever know the truth or even a portion thereof.

[yurbud]

59. everything comes out eventually. Obama released the 28 pages of the Joint Congressional Inquiry

that I didn't expect to see for the next couple of decades even though he and Congress took no action on it.

[KPN]

53. Yes -- exactly. And letting past R administrations off the hook

makes the Democrats complicit whether we like it or not.

[KingCharlemagne]

55. If you're a capitalist, the question really boils down to who

you think will manage the capitalist order best (and maybe most humanely). However, socialists and communists should suffer no illusions that the Dems or Republicans offer anything of lasting value to workers, meaning the people who have only their labor to sell in the marketplace and no other sources of income, aka, "capital.'

Consider just this one tiny little factoid: Bill Clinton gave us 'welfare reform,' a measure which has actually injured working men and women.

Don't think I need to say more.

[Juliusseizure]

12. Speculation shouldn't inform conclusions

Feinstein and Grassley's physical appearance is not reliable evidence of anything.

To try to find out what Comey said, I'd monitor Grassley's statements and actions.

If he comes out in the coming days/weeks trying to obstruct further investigations or shutting down dems, as he's done, then Comey likely didn't share anything damaging to Trump.

If he stays glum and quiet, or goes on the offensive against Trump, that's an indication Comey likely did.

[mopinko]

13. someone needs to spill. and soon.

there's a place in history for the patriot that stands up now.

[Horse with no Name]

44. Agreed. And the insane plot to brand ALL of the news as lies

Is one of the most dangerous things I have ever seen. Only a liar who is trying to maintain cover does that.

[mopinko]

45. always.

[jalan48]

14. The fact that we need all this secrecy to function as a nation bothers me.

We are cheering the IC because they might bring down Trump, someone we despise. What happens if in another year the IC decides to take down a Democrat who is President? The right wing will cheer as we are doing today. In both cases we are cheering for a secret government we have little control over.

[Igel]

15. They looked tired. And displeased.

It could be they have a lot of information that's damning. "Displeased" because of big bad things in the future.

It could be that they have a lot of suspicious information but nothing that is really big. "Displeased" because they have a lot of work and maybe nothing will come of it.

It could be that all the information they hoped would stop Trump just isn't there and all we know is all there is to know. "Displeased" because they have raised massive suspicions and now have to let them slide.


For example, we hear "X talked to so-and-so" and there's proof of recordings. We assume that if, say, sanctions came up as a topic then it had to be Trump's guy discussing how to get rid of them. But what little we know would also be compatible with, "So, X, how's about getting rid of those sanctions?" "Sorry, Ivan, if I had my way we'd triple them. Can we get back to the topic?"

Yeah, suspicions are okay. But acting on them is risky and believing them riskier. Esp. when there's no need to do either.

[Initech]

18. We're teetering on the edge of Civil War.

We're more divided now than we were during the 1860s. The deplorables don't just want us gone, they want us dead. If you dare voice opposition to Trump you get called a libtard, a Marxist, and run out of town. I've never seen a political climate like this before, and if anything happens to Trump, that might be the straw that broke the camel's back.

[world wide wally]

22. So true

[KingCharlemagne]

26. We are NOT more divided than we were during the 1860s. Good lord, we've had nothing

approaching in severity John Brown's raid on the federal arsenal at Harper's Ferry (which served as a catalyst to Southern state militia organizing prior to formal secession).

I like to say we are at the level of "cold Civil War" right now. But we're nowhere near as close to a "hot Civil War" as we were in 1860.

Or am I missing something?

[Initech]

29. We've definitely had a civil cold war going on.

You can see it happening on social media and in the comments sections online. But after that rally in Phoenix last week I wouldn't put it past them.

[KingCharlemagne]

31. I have to plead ignorance here. What happened at the rally in

Phoenix that has given you pause? I follow current events and politics fairly closely, so this seems to have somehow failed to show up on my radar screen.

[Initech]

32. There were people calling for "liberal genocide", and charges to lock up both Obama and Hillary.

I covered it in the Top 10 this week, some very dark and disturbing stuff. But then again, it is Sheriff Joe territory.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10028795411

[KingCharlemagne]

34. Oh, yeah, I did read about it but failed to make the

connection initially.

But now I see what has given you pause. It feels more to me like the climate in the South (Little Rock, AR) during the early phase of post-Brown v. Topeka Board of Education than 1860.

[pbmus]

35. Agree...but there are nut jobs in the White House namely bannon

Who want to destroy this country...

[RKP5637]

40. Sadly, that is their agenda, and the deplorables feel they will inherit the US. I wonder how many of

them can read and write!

[marybourg]

56. I live in the Phx metro and am active

in Resistance groups. I didn't hear anyone talking about the pro-Trump rally which turned out about 300 people in a metro of 5 million or so and where the Woman March turned out many thousands.

According to the local press: " a small group of about 15 protesters opposing Trump and his policies congregated on the walkway nearby. Armed with phones, the small group of demonstrators filmed the goings-on as attendees met them in a contentious but ultimately incident-free argument."

Big deal? I don't think so. We say awful thing about them too. Nothing happened in Phoenix.

[KingCharlemagne]

23. I might need a little taste of your screen name to get me through

the night.

[hollowdweller]

25. When Bush won I had a feeling of dread

He just didn't seem smart enough to be president. However I sort of consoled myself in that he would have his dad's people around some to keep him in line.

Well it was pretty much as bad or worse than I thought it would be. Let terrorists attack the country despite being warned. Squandered the surplus with no increase in the economy. Wars based on lies. Financial collapse.

I had the same feeling with Trump except far as I can see he has very few people around him with any sense.

I think we are going to see a huge terrorist attack but given the support of the population for Islamic refugees in the news it may be on Trump properties rather than our soldiers or gov't buildings. His deregulation will trigger another financial bubble and meltdown.

So will we, as a party squander the gift Trump will give us like we did the one Bush gave us?? We won in 06 and 08 but we did not fully discredit the republicans and their policies that gave us the disaster, namely invading Iraq based on feelings not facts and squandering the surplus on tax cuts that did not stimulate the economy.

As a party we must rebuke the GOP's ideology as unsupported by facts.

[KingCharlemagne]

28. Very astute analysis - nt

[hamsterjill]

27. It's getting harder and harder for those in power to continue to deny that something is happening.

We all know that something has happened. We all know that we aren't being told something.

We all know that Trump is a Russian puppet, and that his many minions have ties to Russia.

There is going to come a point where the truth is going to have to emerge because too much is already out there. Speculation will become more dangerous than truth at some point.

Someone knows. It should be our right to know.

[KingCharlemagne]

30. The truth ALWAYS prevails - nt

[RKP5637]

41. And we always have Mitch McConnell with that stupid ass turtle smile on his face. Yuck! n/t

[hamsterjill]

43. Oh, I know.

He just ooozes evil to me. Can't stand his lying ass.

[woodsprite]

42. And the question is: Do we push them off the cliff, or do they push us?

I vote for the first one.

[lunatica]

50. The truth is ALWAYS a good thing to know

I've said that my entire life.

It may hurt like hell or break your heart but better the truth than any falsehood any day.

[democratisphere]

52. Constitutional Crisis can be dealt with but it will be very, very ugly.

HRC is the rightful occupant of the oval office under these never before believed to be possible circumstances.

[rock]

54. A Democracy has a certain risk to it

You have a massive number of non-politicians selecting a candidate for president who himself may be a non-politician. So when a hugely mass of amateurs make the choices, you see what can go wrong. But hang in there. Next time around may even be worse!