Keith Ellison getting thrown under the bus in T-minus 7...6...5...

[Blue_Tires]

Last edited Fri Mar 17, 2017, 05:05 PM - Edit history (1)

Link to tweet

The responses below are GOLD

[Wounded Bear]

1. YMMV, of course...

but IMNSHO, he's right.

[JHan]

2. Because they're fucking stupid

[bronxiteforever]

6. +1000

[LakeArenal]

16. Stupid seems a compliment.

At least that is a reason. I think they are just hateful.

[stevenleser]

30. Hard to disagree with that. If there was a word that encompassed stupid AND hateful the BOB/JPR

crowd would have a label that was perfect for them.

[NurseJackie]

102. That ... is perfect! Nicely done.

[Docreed2003]

152. Aaaaand we have a winner!

[Kimchijeon]

180. +999999

[Cha]

225. Exactly.. brainwashed and stupid to let themselves get that way. eom

[stonecutter357]

234. +1000

[betsuni]

236. +allthenumbers

[Gothmog]

3. The JPR idiots will not like this

[Sherman A1]

11. Thank You

From one of those JPR idiots..... Name calling goes such a long way towards furthering the discussion on this or any topic.

[ProfessorGAC]

13. But, You're Here Too, Sherm

Some of the folks in question did more a "take my ball and going home" thing. And i think you would have to admit that some of the interchange at that site does reflect a greater distaste for HRC than for the usurper.

[LWolf]

18. It's not about HRC.

For many of us, it never was.

As a member of both sites, I can say that's true for me. I don't spend much time here or there these days, for a variety of reasons, but I'm always up for discussion of actual progressive issues, rather than partisan propaganda, rants or bullying from any side or source.

[ProfessorGAC]

52. We'll Have To Disagree, Wolf

I think it was about HRC. I read the posts here, and i read them there. There was an unsavory element of ideological purity that pushed people into an irrational position of "blowing the whole thing up" to prove a point, forgetting that there are people who will be in the shrapnel path. HRC wasn't pure enough, and she wasn't as aggressively liberal as Bernie (and i wished Bernie's positions were more prominent in the platform) so therefore we should be happy with Trump because the alternative was Hillary.

I saw LOTS of that here and there. I don't post there, but i lurk and while you may not be one of those ideological arsonists, there is ample evidence of their existence.

[LWolf]

181. Sure they exist.

Just like neoliberal purists and partisan purists exist; those who will defend the status quo at all cost. You can find them all over the front page here every day.

There are people there, and here, who don't fit in those categories. No need to paint either site with a broad brush.

To be honest, it really pains me to see the lengths some here (and there) will go to in their zeal for trashing people, and for trashing a site named after a much beloved DUer who didn't live to see the party implode upon itself in the primaries, nor the "election" of Trump.

Why bother to bring up the other site at all, from either place? Why not just talk about issues, which is what drives substantive, constructive discussion?

[ProfessorGAC]

187. Well, Like You Say...

...some of us go to both places and have opinions about both
But quite clearly, you and I can disagree without being disagreeable

[LWolf]

237. And that, imo,

is how all discussions should be.

[Gothmog]

81. Why was every piece of russian propaganda posted and welcomed on JPR?

I was amused to see a ton of false stories from Russian sources posted and praised on the JPR site. Even now, there are a ton of members on the JPR site who are happy that trump is POTUS.

[Docreed2003]

153. This!

[LWolf]

186. I don't know that it was.

I'm a member there, and I haven't read much from Russian sources, and I haven't read a single post expressing happiness about Trump. Of course, I'm not there much, but when I am, that's not what I'm seeing. Maybe I'm just better at filtering out what I'm not interested in.

It's interesting that a member who goes there to actually discuss things rather than to lurk, doesn't find those things in discussion.

[betsuni]

188. But you see posts that "defend the status quo at all costs" "all over the front page here."

I wonder what those are.

[Gothmog]

189. Really?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=8808020

[LWolf]

242. Cherry-picking. nt

[Gothmog]

265. Most of these posts were on the greatest page of JPR when they came out

I limit my viewing of the JPR website to the greatest hist page where the posts with the most likes or recommendations are listed. Many of these thread were on this page due to the number of recommendations from your fellow JPR members.

[obamanut2012]

269. It's not cherry picking when the tree is full of fruit

Just stop it -- and own it.

[Arazi]

217. The posters who wanted to give Trump a chance left weeks ago for a new site

Much better now.

And agreed, the policy discussions are very robust and open there

[Eliot Rosewater]

134. Here is how simple it is. We have a two party system.

You vote for the Democratic candidate on the ballot in every election, by voting 3rd or not at all you/they support fascists, killers.

Period.

IF we ever have a system that isnt a 2 party system, then we can revisit this issue.


If a person voted 3rd party or not at all, they voted for a fascist killer. If they want absolution, they need to see a priest, I cant help them.

[LWolf]

183. Simplistic thinking

doesn't get us anywhere but involved in a circular blame game which I'm simply not going to play.

People who say "period" at the end of their statements usually can't handle complexity, nuance, or anything that doesn't fit in their simple black/white polarized world. It's sad, and it never leads to any constructive discussion.

[mvd]

142. Like you, I post at both sites

I don't like to get into the bashing of either site because it takes away from my focus - resisting Trump. I do post more here nowadays than JPR because there is an element at JPR that is more anti-Democratic than anti-Trump. Those are hard to read. I have increased my ignore list here so that the posts that annoyed me during the primaries aren't as numerous. Occasionally JPR does have a productive post and anti-Trump post, and I go on those sometimes.

[Gothmog]

174. I have seen a number of truly pro-trump posts on JPR

Many of the threads on the JPR greatest page (the threads with the most likes or recommendations) are very pro Trump and pro Putin

[LWolf]

184. I'm not doing much at either site.

But I'm happy to have a constructive discussion in either place, when I can find them.

I find that I'm simply done with partisan propaganda; I don't care what party someone belongs to or doesn't. I care about respectful, substantive, constructive discussion, and that's hard to find these days.

[mvd]

206. That's true

The pro Trump posts at JPR seem a bit less lately I guess. Philosophically I feel I am more to the left than the average DU member now (unlike before), and many JPR posts are too radical for me. So I post where I feel I can contribute.

[LWolf]

240. That's generally what I do everywhere.

When I first got to DU, I was a moderate.

I haven't changed.

Yet, DU has shifted so far into partisan group think and speech that now I'm the hated left. I skip most of what I see here as simply not worth the time or energy, but there are still important topics and discussions that should happen.

Most of those, here, aren't even allowed anymore, or if they are, they inspire rage. That's the danger of a discussion site so censored for partisanship that it becomes an echo chamber and a place to practice group think and group say.

The other site is also censored, but less so. That means you might get offended, but more open discussions can happen.

I just look for discussions that I feel are relevant to the times and need to be developed, and skip the rest. Here and there.

One topic that I feel is crucial is the division in the party, but most of DU seems determined to pretend unity just like tptb did at last summer's convention. It's a danger that I can see coming like a freight train, but the track and engine and whistles and bells are being muted and/or silenced.

We were united in opposition to GWB. I think we all oppose Trump, but the unity isn't there.

[msanthrope]

193. You're incredibly correct....the racism shown to President Obama, the sexism shown to HRC are tools

to be used for an ultimate goal.

[LWolf]

238. One thing that Trump has done:

he's pulled America's embedded racism and sexism out into the clear light of day; unfortunately, too many feel empowered to be racist and sexist by that. I'm worried about those who are going to be harmed while we push back. I hope we can do a better job of curing the disease of hate.

I'm not sure how we're going to get the job done, but I know I'm standing with and acting with anyone I can reach.

[msanthrope]

239. You know, I recently pulled up an old Manny Goldstein

thread lauding WillyT.

Interesting recs.

Do you think that standing with two trolls banned for racism, and participating on their current site is useful?

[LWolf]

241. I think

that people get banned at DU for a lot of reasons, the foremost being when they don't drink the partisan koolaid. I wouldn't use anyone banned as an example of why to read and discuss at a site, or not. I, for myself, miss 3rd way Manny. I know he offended those who saw too much of their 3rd-way selves in his satire, but that's the 3rd way's problem, not mine.

And that site was named after a great DUer who left us too early, and wasn't part of the party hatreds and war that developed during the primaries and continues now. There are plenty of great current and former DUers there. I wish I didn't understand why so many love to hate those they can't silence, because it reflects poorly on them, but I do.

[msanthrope]

243. WillyT was banned for racism, plain and simple.

3rd Way Manny's racist gefilte fish thread, and his subsequent racist and condescending apology thread contributed to his banning.

So, you are suggesting that their offenses don't come from the actual racism they exhibited---

I know he offended those who saw too much of their 3rd-way selves in his satire, but that's the 3rd way's problem, not mine. 

Let me see if I have this......you are calling other DUers, in fact many African Americans on this board, and the administrators "3rd way" because they objected to those racists?

[Gothmog]

266. I was never impressed with most of the JPR posters

[msanthrope]

268. I called JPR a tertiary syphillis support group. I meant it. nt

[Sherman A1]

23. I find some of the discussion on this site

rather distasteful as well. Yet, I see no need to call anyone idiots. People have their opinions on this and other sites across the web JPR being one of those. Agree or Disagree, but name calling? Just how does that help? I did not find a reason to call George Bush a name nor do I find reasons to call Donald Trump derogatory names.

[world wide wally]

33. Stupid is a descriptive adjective.... not a noun

[yardwork]

36. The name calling on JPR doesn't bother you?

Calling female leaders vulgar words, photoshopping feces on them to try to fool people into thinking that they are very sick, that kind of thing doesn't bother you? But mentioning it here bothers you?

I honestly can't understand.

[kcr]

83. The explanation is people call names here, too.

It's Bothsides-itis in Whataboutville.

[yardwork]

123. No, I disagree. There is no equivalence at all.

[kcr]

130. I agree

I was being the typical big old DU meanie we're famous for

[Cha]

165. Damn straight there's "No Equivalence".. I've seen

their hate site.

[JTFrog]

49. You don't like this site because of derogatory names toward Trump, but the c-word at JPR is a-ok.

All of the unbridled misogyny and sexism is just peachy.

Got it.

Unbelievable.

Anyone who defends that Russian loving pit of snakes over there should really ask themselves why they would defend that nonsense.

Do you defend DU and DUer's over there?

[Plucketeer]

79. I just find it amusing that in what professes to be a democratic society

we have to tip-toe thru our opinions and our lexicon so as to not be sent to the gulag.

[Demsrule86]

88. This is a Democratic site. We support Democrats...this is not

a site that welcomes all opinions...we work to get Democrats elected. Also JPR has had all sorts of purges...I go there every once in a while and read the sobbing posts from the fools and Russian trolls that populate that site. Hysterically funny.

[emulatorloo]

110. Personally, I find false equivalencies distasteful

We don't call women cunts at DU. Nor do we promote Trump.

[aikoaiko]

207. Actually we have. Anne Coulter in a Rude Pundit repost for example.

[emulatorloo]

244. sorry, very poor attempt at 'both sides do it'.

that someone once posted a second-hand Rude Pundit editorial here is not the same as multiple posters using their own voices to call women cunts.

JPR actually banned at least one women who have objected to calling women cunts.

[aikoaiko]

246. If you're down with the RP calling Coulter the C-word, I suppose its not.

I don't read JPR, but I do read DU and we are not so perfect.

[emulatorloo]

247. Did I say I was "down with it"? No

It is pretty clear from my posts here I am not cool with women being called cunts

Stop putting words in other people's mouths. It is a really dishonest rhetorical device.

[aikoaiko]

248. Seems like it or you wouldn't be parsing the differences in the posts.

Maybe its not that you're down with the RP.

Maybe its because JPR uses the C-word against Democratic women and we use it against conservatives.

Maybe its just that its JPR and we're DU.

Whatever it is, we don't like it more when JPR does it.

You know what else is a dishonest rhetorical device -- dismissing a comparison because they aren't perfectly equivalent. Very few things are equivalent. You said, "We don't call women cunts at DU," and we do.

[emulatorloo]

297. You'll get banned or hidden at DU for calling a women a cunt

Again stop putting words in my mouth that I didn't say.

There's not anything in my words that indicate I am in favor of calling women
/women politicians cunts.

Yet you've dishonesty tried to smear me and paint me as someone who endorses using that word against women

.

[JustAnotherGen]

231. Ignorant Uncouth Bigoted Trump is descriptive

Not derogatory. Truth might hurt. So be it.

[Chevy]

252. Do you offer that same clarity to Stalin,Mussolini ISIS? n/t

[seaglass]

15. The JPR idiots are the ones who professed to care about their fellow humans but couldn't bring

themselves to vote for HRC against Trump. No discussion is needed with those fools.

[Sherman A1]

25. Another for the ignore list

[stevenleser]

28. If the truth hurts you that badly, who is and isnt on your ignore list is the least of your issues.

You should meditate on that for a while.

[seaglass]

48. Those JPR people can be extra special sensitive when it comes to who voted for who. n/t

[Eliot Rosewater]

135. Here is how simple it is. We have a two party system.

If you ever NOT vote or vote 3rd party, therefore not voting for the Democrat on the ticket, you ARE voting FOR fascist killers.

Period.

You want a different system? fine, make that happen, until then, above applies.

[Sherman A1]

155. Well, my only response is

Horse Hockey

[Eliot Rosewater]

170. Really ??? So we dont have a 2 party system?

S

I

G

H

(This is why America cant recover, folks)

[Cha]

168. Put me on there too.. I stand with seaglass..

[Chevy]

251. We are all seaglass now n/t

[Cha]

257. Good to see, Chevy!

[Gothmog]

267. I stand with Cha

[Cha]

292. ...

[GulfCoast66]

195. Ignoring someone does not change the fact

That folks on that sight helped elect Trump. And even after you put me on ignore, they, and perhaps you, helped elect Trump.

Own it.

[Sherman A1]

219. And my response

is Horse Hockey.

Trump was elected or stole the election through a variety of means

[liberalhistorian]

205. Then I will kindly ask you to consider

me on your ignore list as well, since I couldn't agree more with Seaglass. Anyone who voted third party because they inexplicably considered HRC as bad as, or worse than, the Orange Fascist who's currently tearing at the very foundation of our nation, are not only the most short-sighted people in the world, they also helped put the dangerous Orange Fascist into the most important and powerful office in the world. I say the hell with them, and may they suffer the consequences. Millions of their fellow Americans are going to suffer horribly and they bear a share of responsibility for that. And if you are one of them, then I am proud to be on your ignore list.

[Sherman A1]

220. Done

[Cha]

254. Well said, liberalhistorian! I'm proud to be on that list

with you.

[betsuni]

224. The daily holiday today must be National Put A Democrat On Ignore Day

[Sherman A1]

226. I can simply stop posting those if you would prefer

[betsuni]

228. I'm sure they're very popular over at JPR!

[revmclaren]

255. And me...put me on ignore too.

Power to Democrats!!!!

[stonecutter357]

229. I hate putin/trump to so put me on the ignore list also.

[panfluteman]

21. Who, or What, is JPR???

[arthritisR_US]

27. I think it's jack pine radicals. nt

[Maru Kitteh]

35. JPR is a site of Putin-loving, Trump-stumping, unicorn humper TROLLS

who were largely banned from here or "self-deported" for hating the Democratic party in general and - - because they are a very STUPID, weak-minded lot who fell for every right-wing and Russian conspiracy offered - - deep and irrational hatred for our nominee.

They had thousands - literally thousands of threads about the evil of Hillary Clinton, 95% of it straight from Putin's ass, the white-supremacist troll army, and the fevered swamps of Breitbart and Info Wars.

Their demographics are like those of many Trump loyalists. Angry, almost 100% white and largely male. Because they were so blinded by hate for Hillary Clinton, most of them voted for Trump. I hope every last one of those poisonous vipers loses their healthcare coverage and generally suffers the worst of what this administration wreaks upon us.

What I wish for them is really too vile to write.

[Gothmog]

82. Great description of that site

[FSogol]

117. +1, Exactly. n/t

[NurseJackie]

128. Yes. Perfect comparison. Nailed it!

[NastyRiffraff]

141. Best description of the jackass site I've seen yet.

Especially this part:

"Their demographics are like those of many Trump loyalists."

Exactly.

[msanthrope]

194. I described them as a "tertiary syphilis support group." nt

[Tarheel_Dem]

146. Thread Winner!

[Docreed2003]

154. And here's the part you left off...

Some openly applauded and welcomed a Trump presidency because they felt it would disrupt the system so completely it would bring about their leftist panacea. How's that working out for them? We're left with the fascists in control!

[msanthrope]

222. Let's not forget the women of that site. The enablers.

Particularly the ones who think slipping back here is just going to be peachy easy.

[seaglass]

230. The majority of the women who made JPR their home are the same ones who enabled

the sexist men on DU. The majority of those men also made JPR their home. Some weird coincidences there.

[msanthrope]

232. Stockholm Syndrome.....nt

[obamanut2012]

273. I actually don't agree with that

Not for all of them, anyway.

[obamanut2012]

272. Yes, this

[Chevy]

253. Careful now feelings feelings n/t

[obamanut2012]

271. Perfect -- except I'll add they got many good DUers PRRed

Just because those people supported HRC. We had to keep quiet or it would happen to us, too.

They are vile, and the JPRers in this thread making excuses are frankly disgusting me.

[Gore1FL]

63. It's a progressive site of former DUers who some of the more strident HRC supporters here drove off.

Last edited Fri Mar 17, 2017, 02:11 PM - Edit history (1)

Not learning from this, those responsible continue to divide the left and vilify them.

On Edit: You can read the responses to my post thus far to get the general idea.

[LonePirate]

72. Some would say the JPRs left here because they were intolerant of anything but fringe left views.

Last edited Fri Mar 17, 2017, 05:19 PM - Edit history (1)

They were not driven away. They left on their own or were banned in some cases because of their refusal to abide by the big tent rules here at DU. If anybody is dividing the left, it's the JPR folks not DUers. JPRs seem to love 45 and Russia whereas those sentiments are not found here.

[Gore1FL]

147. Do you have a link for them loving 45 and Russia?

I haven't seen that thread.

[LanternWaste]

89. Inaccurate. They chose to leave. No force, no coercion... just choice.

Inaccurate. They chose to leave. No force, no coercion... just choice.

Not learning from this, you appear to continue to divide our left and trivialize it.

You'll of course, rationalize simply mocking a mere website as an oppressive vilification, regardless of its inherent fictitious nature.

[NurseJackie]

131. A very reasonable assessment and factual review.

[Gore1FL]

148. During the primaries, DU was inhospitable to anyone who didn't love Hillary.

But thanks for putting words in my mouth! It goes a long way to proving my assertion.

[Gothmog]

175. During the primary there were a ton of threads that were extremely negative on Hillary Clinton

There were a dozen or so threads arguing that Hillary Clinton broke the law and should be indicted. I know because I engaged on those threads and there were a number of non-lawyers who were convinced that Clinton was a criminal and should be in jail. I am a lawyer and I found these threads to be really wrong on the law and engaged on these these threads. It was painful. Luckily the posters pushing these threads are both over on JPR

[Gore1FL]

192. No doubt the primary season was filled with vitriol on both sides.

I don't consider an unhealed schism on the left lucky as you do, however. If the espoused hypothesis are correct, that lucky occurrence lead to a Trump presidency. I would consider that a bad sort of luck.

Perhaps we need to do better as a party.

[GulfCoast66]

199. You memory is slipping

During the primary this sight was very hostile to anyone who supported Hillary. The purist here in the early spring would alert on anyone who they even suspected was not a true believer.

After the primary, as the rules state, this site was inhospitable to any post negative to the Democratic Party Candidate. Which after all is the reason Democratic Underground exist.

So a number of folks whose only concern was far left wing economic issues created a misogynist, racist site where they could spew hatred against those who cared about any issues besides being a good socialist. Oh, and Putin supporter.

And I guaran-damn-tee you everyone who stayed here was prepared to be loyal to the Democratic Party nominee, as I and all of us will be in 2018.

If you are not prepared to support the Democratic Party nominee for president, this is not the site for you.

[Gore1FL]

201. It must be.

I recall the admins supporting HRC. I also recall being called a misogynist and a racist for supporting Sanders.

I stayed loyal to the Dems in 2016 because I understand how a 2-party system works. That doesn't mean I don't have legitimate qualms with the way the party has been run over the last 20 years--though I was thrilled with Howard Dean's short-lived (and effective) 50-state strategy.

The last nominee who didn't buy into Reaganomics was Mondale (arguably Dukakis--but i wouldn't argue it). We've lost our way.

[GulfCoast66]

204. it was a heated time

I was a rarity here in that I really did not love either candidate. I think that allowed me a different perspective. Both sides were horrible at times, but once the race was over, a contingent would not accept the results and went to a place that is often misogynist and racist and has a good many trump supporters.

I think many in our party lack perspective and see things as black and white. The nation moved right in the 80's. And so did our party to remain relevant. We look back and despair the Clinton year because he 'sold out' so much. But had he run the same way Mondale or Dukakis did, he would have lost as bad as they did. The party has to lead, but we cannot lead those not willing to follow.

I think 2018 will be a historic opportunity. We may finally be able to espouse the kind of liberalism not seen since the 60's and have a chance to win. The health care thing is such a cluster fuck I am actually hearing some of my republican friends opining that perhaps we should just do what they have done in Europe and get it over with.

[Gore1FL]

208. Let's hope nt

[SecularMotion]

104. They left DU after Skinner put the kibosh on their Hillary hatefest.

[Gore1FL]

149. The failure to understand why people disliked Clinton was certainly a grave error.

The choice to divide rather than reconcile was even worse.

[SecularMotion]

158. Are those alternative facts or just your opinion?

[Gore1FL]

162. My experience.

Are you trying be be strident enough to drive me away?

[msanthrope]

221. No......it wasn't, because their stated reasons were utter bullshit.

And did they leave DU and create a site of reasonable discussion?

Nope..... they created a misogynistic hate-filled swamp.

[Gore1FL]

260. Just because you don't agree with something doesn't make the reasons "bullshit" or misogynistic. nt

[msanthrope]

270. The proof is the little utopia those poor oppressed souls set up.

The mysogynistic swamp of bullshit that is JPR....where you guys banned a female member for daring to question the use of the c word.

[Gore1FL]

278. I am a "you guy" now. Interesting.

When was the last time I posted at JPR? You seem to be ready with the divisive insults, considering.

[emulatorloo]

111. It is a faux-progressive site run by a megatroll Reagan voter and the "Stockholm Syndrome" boy.

Genuine progressives and leftists don't promote Trump, rightwing news sources, and wingnut conspiracies.

[Gore1FL]

150. Please provide links where they do that. nt

[emulatorloo]

245. Nope. You don't get to pretend "Stockholm Syndrome" never happened

Nor do you get to gaslight people here regarding what they've seen and read at JPR

[Gore1FL]

258. Your lack of evidence is convincing!

Thanks for providing exactly what I expected.

[emulatorloo]

296. Your tacit denial that "Stockholm Syndrome" happened is exactly what I expected.

Have a nice week.

[Gore1FL]

299. You have a nice week too.

"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."

--Christopher Hitchens

[Gothmog]

116. It is a site to go to if you want to read the latest Russian propaganda

They love Russia on this site and some brag about how Trump will be a great POTUS and that they are proud to be Russian trolls

[Gore1FL]

151. Please provide a link that exemplifies your assertion. nt

[Gothmog]

161. You got to be kidding

Here is a sample. There are more if you need them

https://jackpineradicals.com/boards/topic/still-a-proud-bernie-or-buster-still-glad-hillary-lost/

http://jackpineradicals.com/boards/topic/william-rivers-pitt-has-a-good-point/#post-542257

http://jackpineradicals.com/boards/topic/a-different-take-on-the-banning-the-press-story/#top

http://jackpineradicals.com/boards/topic/obama-administration-rushed-to-preserve-intelligence-of-russian-election-hacking/

http://jackpineradicals.com/boards/topic/putin-is-not-americas-enemy-hes-the-american-establishments-competition/

http://jackpineradicals.com/boards/topic/kim-dotcom-wl-drop-shows-cia-used-tricks-to-appear-like-they-were-russian/

http://jackpineradicals.com/boards/topic/hillbots-give-up-on-your-russia-conspiracy-theories-now/

[Gore1FL]

164. Did you read the threads or just the OPs?

As I click and read through your links, it's clearly not OP = lockstep.

[George II]

169. Just the fact that the OPs are there in the first place with many responses (most positively)....

....proves the initial assertion.

[Gore1FL]

190. Perhaps, but not the implication of the insertion. nt

[Gothmog]

264. Look at the recommendations/likes for these posts

If these posts are so isolated, then why were so many of these posts on the greatest page on JPR? When I go to JPR, I limit my views to the greatest page where posts have the most likes or recommendations

[Gore1FL]

276. Why do you go to a site that you claim is for Russian propaganda?

Seems weird, comrade.

[Gothmog]

283. Because some of the posts on that site are so stupid that they are funny

I also go the Free Republic from time to time for the same reason. I classify the Free Republic and JPR as being essentially the same

[Gore1FL]

285. That's amazing, because so many of the articles are similar to those on DU.

I guess you come here for the same reason.

[Gothmog]

289. Denial is not just a river in Africa

Ida, levymg, willie and their ilk are not on DU

[Gore1FL]

298. Yet many awesome posters are on both. nt

[Gothmog]

301. Those JPR posters were not awesome

Again denial is not just a river in Africa

[Gore1FL]

306. Denail isn't a river in Africa. It's name is Nile.

People like N2Doc, as but one example, are awesome posters. I enjoy his contributions.

[BainsBane]

302. Oh, yeah. DU is just like JPR

minus the Trump humping.

[Gore1FL]

307. Link? nt

[Gothmog]

304. Here are some amusing threads from today's JPR front page including several on the greatest page

JPR is the site for russian lovers and people who deny the Trump Russia connection.

http://jackpineradicals.com/boards/topic/russians-used-cut-out-in-leak-to-wikileaks/

http://jackpineradicals.com/boards/topic/when-the-establishment-cant-prove-trump-russia-collusion-progressives-win/

http://jackpineradicals.com/boards/topic/the-missing-logic-of-russia-gate/

http://jackpineradicals.com/boards/topic/if-russia-did-meddle-in-the-election-did-it-matter/

http://jackpineradicals.com/boards/topic/russia-vs-usa-who-is-the-threat-who-is-the-aggressor-12/

Please show me where there are equivalent threads on DU??

[Gore1FL]

308. First 5 off the front page include:

http://jackpineradicals.com/boards/topic/chuck-schumer-senate-shouldnt-vote-on-neil-gorsuch-while-fbi-investigates-trum/

http://jackpineradicals.com/boards/topic/exclusive-tillerson-plans-to-skip-nato-meeting-visit-russia-in-april-sources/

http://jackpineradicals.com/boards/topic/trump-winery-hiring-more-foreign-workers-than-previous-years/

http://jackpineradicals.com/boards/topic/border-agent-lawyer-asks-court-to-bar-video-evidence-in-murder-case/

http://jackpineradicals.com/boards/topic/north-korea-nuclear-programme-in-new-phase-iaea/

[Gothmog]

309. Denial is not just a river in Africa

JPR is the home of Trump and Putin supporters. I am amused as to why you defend these concepts

[Gore1FL]

310. Denial isn't a river in Africa at all. It's name is "Nile"

Denial is the suggestion that those links weren't similar to threads at DU.

I am sorry you feel like you keep having to make the same stale joke to feel like you are making a point.

[Gothmog]

311. Why is it so important to defend trump and putin on JPR?

Why are trump and putin so popular on JPR? I really do not understand why that site is so full of Russian supporters. Is Clarity of Signal still posting there?

[Gore1FL]

312. Where did I defend Trump or Putin?

It's rather difficult to have a discussion with you when you lie, put words in my mouth, disregard evidence, and repeat attempts at jokes that weren't particularly funny when they were new.

It would appear you are more interested in getting in a last word than having an honest or fruitful discussion on the matter. That's a damn shame. Uniting the left should be a priority. Based on this limited conversation with you, it doesn't appear to be one of yours.

[Gothmog]

313. The JPR site is a site that was full of Putin fake news during the election

You are defending a website that is full of Putin and trump supporters. You are welcome to post on that site but do not expect anyone to ignore the fact that JPR is full of trump and putin lovers. The story on Rachel last night about Putin flooding the internet and pro bernie sites with fake news was evident during the election on JPR.

Link to tweet

There was a ton of anti-Hillary posts on that site during the election and even today there are pro-Russia and Putin threads that are on the greatest page.

You did not answer my question about Clarity of Signal? Is this russian troll still posting on JPR.

[Gore1FL]

314. Being "anti-Hillary" is not the same as being pro-Trump or pro-Putin

Scrolling down the list of the "Greatest page" at JPR, The first was a Consortium News article, the second says the that wasn't the basis of them not voting for Clinton, and the third was a Consortium News article.... Are you really suggesting that Consortium News is Pro-Russia, or Pro-Trump? Really?

It's a reasonable goal to unite the left before the next election. Using demagoguery is likely not the best approach.

As far as answering your question on "Clarity of Signal," you never asked me a question about "Clarity of Signal" so it is reasonable no to answer it. I didn't answer other questions you didn't ask, too.

[Gothmog]

315. JPR had ton of Russian fake news stories posted

The fact that the JPR posters are unwilling to admit that they were part of the Russian attack on the US election process is sad but not surprising. Did you watch the Maddow story on the Russian attack methods or is Maddow not pure enough for JPR types?

As for Clarity of Signal, it was asked and the fact that you are refusing to answer this question says a great deal. Again, the JPR site is the home for Russian attacks on our electoral system. Ignoring these facts and refusing to answer questions confirms my positions.

Thank you

[Gore1FL]

316. Did Maddow mention JPR?

I did a search on the thread concerning both clarity and signal when you mentioned it. You asked no question that contained either word. Why don't you link to the post where you asked it if you are so sure? Out of context, "clarity of signal" makes no sense and is not in and of itself a question.

And what does this have to do with your disparaging and false accusation of being pro-trump and Pro-Putin. Your willingness to make unsupported ad homenim attacks to smear me personally to avoid addressing my statements speaks volumes. The fact that you wish to belabor this demonstrates everything I have previously thread, so i guess I should thank you for proving my point.

TTFN

[Gothmog]

171. I read as many of the posts on these threads as I could stomach

Did you read the thread about the JPR poster who was proud to be a BOBer? That thread got a ton of recommendations or likes and was on the JPR greatest or most recommended page. Many of these threads that I listed were on the greatest or most recommended page when they came out. I do not spend much time on the JPR site and tend to look at the "greatest" forum to see which JPR posts have the most recommends or likes.

Many of the posts on these threads were so dumb that they were funny. Other threads were so demented that they were hard to read.
I did not take many of the posters who are on JPR seriously when they were on DU. That has not changed.

Here is another great thread that was fun to laugh at http://jackpineradicals.com/boards/topic/im-not-a-russian-troll/ I note that a known russian troll (other than the author of the linked thread) is on JPR but was banned for being a Russian troll on DU and DI

Again I did not that take the regulars on JPR seriously when they were on DU. I go to JPR for my amusement and to see what is going on in that alternative reality

[SunSeeker]

249. Good grief, JPR is a slithering cesspool.

[Gothmog]

305. I agree with your analysis

[Skittles]

203. people too stupid to know how to use IGNORE

fuck them, bunch of fucking WIMPS

[Gore1FL]

209. Certainly that was part of it

But there is a part of the left who has been left out for a good number of years; I, myself, being part of the left who has been left out, can in introspection, realize I have left people out.

We really need some soul-searching as a party. Ultimately, we are all good people who want something better for ourselves and those who follow.

I believe we have it in us.

I recall this from 1988:

[Skittles]

210. sorry, I am tired of the whiners

if you feel left out, GET YOURSELF IN THE GAME

[Gore1FL]

215. Those that you speak of did so.

And people seem rather upset about it.

Perhaps we need to find a different way that finds success.

[uponit7771]

211. I responded to wrong sub thread, ... wishing there was a mobile site for DU... :sry:

[Gore1FL]

212. Well articulated! I am totally convinced!

Maybe you can add more swears and maybe a spit of tobacco to really drive home the point!

[uponit7771]

213. Hell damn and snot .... Hillary haters can still kiss all my black ass

[Gore1FL]

214. woo hoo!

Golly you are totally convincing!

[uponit7771]

216. sry, replied to the wrong subthread...

[Squinch]

227. If by "Progressive" you mean people who support Trump, who have a deep need to use

misogynistic language and a deep dislike for DU because that language was discouraged here, people who would just love it if our country imploded despite the hardship that would cause because then they could say, "I told you so," and people who thought that "All lives matter" was a great response to "Black lives matter," then I suppose, yes. You could call them progressive. But you'd have to admit that is a very unusual interpretation of the term.

[Gore1FL]

259. If you say so.

There are a lot of good former and current DUers there. While there is a remark now and again, your description hardly reflects the ongoings there.

It's a convenient punching bag, though, huh?

[Squinch]

263. It's not a remark now and again. It's pervasive. And a lot of those "good DUers"

are exactly the ones spreading it.

Punching bag? No. Fascinating proof of the fact that there are many snakes in the woodpile, and they inevitably show themselves? Yes.

[Gore1FL]

277. So you are calling fellow DUers snakes in a woodpile?

Isn't that against TOS?

[Squinch]

279. I think we've seen that there are. And no, it isn't against the TOS. But gosh, you're so slick!

[Gore1FL]

281. I know I am!

I wish i could return the compliment!

[Squinch]

282. Ah. No doubt the venerable "rubber/glue" gambit will come next! I wait with bated breath

[Gore1FL]

284. If necessary. I try to debate on the level that people approach me with.

I prefer headier conversations, but some people aren't up for it.

[Squinch]

286. ... Aaaaand there it is!

[obamanut2012]

274. lololololololololololololololololololololololol

You controlled this site.

Talk about gaslighting and projecting.

lololololololol

[Gore1FL]

280. I controlled this site?

Cool. I hope they send me a check for my hard work.

[Bradical79]

288. Progressives don't support fascist dictators, JPR is a fraud site

or their propaganda "news" organizations. When I visited that site during the election there was an extreme amount of RT bullshit being directly propagated and supported by their membership. I got pretty pissed off at numerous Clinton supporters here during the primaries, but the Bernie or Bust supporters that made up the Jackpine Radicals community really put them to shame, even long after the primaries had been secided. Their progressiveness really looked like a fraudulent act in the end.

They outed themselves as people who really didn't love Bernie beyond being a useful tool to use against the "establishment". The most active members were more alligned with Bannon's and Putin's philosophies regarding burning it all down and destroying lives in the process. They despised rational discussion even more so than the most fanatical HRC supporters, and turned everything into idiotic paranoid conspiracies.

Hell, despite my longtime support of Bernie Sanders and giving him my vote, as soon as I got tired of his campaign manager's bullshit near the end of the campaign (after it had been practically decided), I got targeted with lies accusing me of being some sort of plant or phony, simply for calling out a few members of the Bernie group once for an explicitly racist statement ( a claim that black people who support Clinton had stockholm syndrome).

That site became the gathering place for some of the most dispicable so called Bernie supporters to ever grace this site with their pressence, and were rightfully driven off for their disgusting behavior.

[Gore1FL]

300. You certainly have a right to that opinion.

It does little to produce the broad coalition we need to win elections, however.

[stonecutter357]

235. it's most·ly russian and tiny hands trump trolls.

[stevenleser]

26. Like the name calling you guys do with Hillary and various Democrats all the time?

So you don't like it when it's directed at you but its fine for you to direct it at other people? Is that the issue?

[LonePirate]

66. Gothmog is right. JPR hates Clinton more than they hate 45. They are no different than Freepers.

[Sherman A1]

157. There are perhaps some that do indeed believe as you indicate

and others that believe otherwise. Just like any discussion board or any group. Opinions vary. In any event name calling does not lead to anything other than more of the same and does not advance the discussion or even allow for discussion.

[LonePirate]

160. Some? People have been banned there for saying positive words about Clinton.

Whereas 45 voters over there wear their votes as badges of honor. That site is a sewer and no self-respecting Dem should have anything to do with it.

[Maru Kitteh]

223. x a BRAZILLION.

[still_one]

71. I can only assume if you are here, you had the common sense to recognize the

Last edited Fri Mar 17, 2017, 06:52 PM - Edit history (1)

danger trump poised, and are not someone who would cut of their nose to spite their face with an all or nothing policy.

I have no doubt that you took the advice of people like Bernie Sanders and Noam Chomsky, and voted for Hillary against trump because you realized what was at stake.

What other venues people frequent is their business, but what I have seen regarding some of the posts over at JPR, I would like to think that you could perhaps persuade those who are progressive over there to have a change of perspective and realize that working within the Democratic party is the only real chance to further a progressive agenda. It doesn't mean one will always be successful or get what they want, but at least they will have a voice, and a chance to do that. That is something that isn't going to happen within the republican party, and third parties will never accomplish that.

The platform that came out of the DNC addressed a lot of issues, including debt free college, healthcare, the environment, civil rights, social security, medicare, etc., and those who choose to ignore that, and focus on misrepresentations, distortions, and lies, are now paying the price for that, as we all will. If they were to recognize that it would be a major accomplishment.

Noam Chomsky said it best, progressives who refused to vote for Hillary Clinton made a ‘bad mistake’

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/11/noam-chomsky-progressives-who-refused-to-vote-for-hillary-clinton-made-a-bad-mistake/

If they can recognize and learn from that, then that is a step forward

[Gothmog]

75. The JPR site is full of fake news from russian sources

There are and still is a ton of fake stories planted by Russia on the JPR site. The fact that JPR was listed as a russian fake news site is telling.

Has anyone on JPR repudiated the russian attacks on our elections? I go to that site for amusement and I keep seeing people posting that they are proud of being russian trolls. There are a ton of trump supporters on the JPR website and I love the threads on JPR claiming that trump is really going to be a good president.

[Cary]

140. Yet what you call "name calling" of "JPR idiots" is allowed here

I think that's because it's generally accepted that many people over there are over the top and not available for any constructive dialogue.

It's like a "discussion" I'm having with someone over at Discussionist. I have to use scare quotes because this person is lecturing me on how great Donald Trump is doing. What kind of discussion can I have with this person, and why would I want to discuss anything with him/her? I don't post much or read much over there, or at JPR, for exactly the same reasons although there are some good posters at Discussionist. But then I can have a noise free discussion with them here or elsewhere.

Back to your point, I would love to have any discussion with anyone who is capable of doing so without the games, not the least of which is gaslighting.

[spanone]

4. thank you Rep. Ellison. i too just don't get it.

[bettyellen]

5. He's right in that some are downplaying the Russian thing - maybe because they spread RT crap

Themselves? It think that hating a Clinton is the number one thing. That Masha woman who wrote Putin's bio was blathering on about Sanders reaction to Trump speech when they were asking her about Putin. WTF.

[BeyondGeography]

7. Smart guy...he wants to clear the decks of unwilling hands for 2018

[Jonny Appleseed]

8. Continuing the 2016 election is the only way they can live with themselves

Especially if you look at rw sites. It's getting so surreal that occasionally a daily Hillary "article" reads as a pro-Hillary article if you take off your rw glasses.

[Yavin4]

9. She had emails....Duh

That makes her pure evil.

[bigtree]

10. she gave a speech

...clue.

[Cryptoad]

12. Geeewhizz,,,,,,,,

im still reading the "Enquiring Minds want to Know" article , "Hillary abducted by aliens"

[JTFrog]

14. He need only read Eichenwald's article to understand.

http://www.newsweek.com/myths-cost-democrats-presidential-election-521044

A lot of those folks are BoBer's who were led to believe they could get the superdelegates to overthrow the will of the majority of voters. Many people predicted the bitter divide that would occur when Bernie wouldn't quit his attacks after it was clear he had no path to win. And given the amount of misogyny and sexism we saw during the election season, many of these folks obviously flat out have issues with women.

Just sayin....

[SunSeeker]

20. Exactly. nt

[Gothmog]

115. I saw this at the national Convention

I was a Clinton delegate to the national convention and observed some bad behavior

[Tarheel_Dem]

182. Another thread win!

[Equinox Moon]

17. I wonder if it has to do with

Party of the People cannot be establishment run.

[SunSeeker]

22. How's that anti-establishment meme working out for ya?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

29. 3 million more of the party of the people voted for her

[Equinox Moon]

107. Yes.

I agree there is no comparison between HRC and Trump. He is the worst prez ever!

My post is a postulation that those (few) people he is referring to, could have something to do with anti-establishment sentiment.

[emulatorloo]

114. The BoB's made the term "Establishment" meaningless

By going after Planned Parenthood as 'establishment' and then claiming a racist predatory capitalist was 'anti-establishment'

[Jamaal510]

163. +1

I have heard the "establishment" and "anti-establishment" terms misused so much during the past election that I've come to hate them now.

[BlueMTexpat]

19. Ellison is a class act.

Some who supported his DNC bid are not.

We know who they are.

[Maru Kitteh]

24. And THAT RIGHT THERE is why I would have been happy w/ Ellison or Perez

And I was thrilled, but not surprised in the least to see them team up together, acting essentially as co-chairs.

[NCTraveler]

37. Agree.

[Adrahil]

62. Ayup. NT

[LonePirate]

77. I completely agree, Maru Kitteh. I was always supportive of either Ellison or Perez in the DNC chair

Their willingness to work together now is far more important than whichever one is the (nominal) chair of the DNC.

[Maru Kitteh]

86. I know if Ellison had won the arrangement would be the same. I think they

worked out ahead of time that whoever won would take the other one along. They've been working closely together for some time, and the appreciation they show for each other is so obvious and genuine.

I'm really looking forward to good things from them.

[Ligyron]

112. That was really the only way forward for the party.

Democrats need to unite and do so over issues and not so much personalities.

[herding cats]

97. That's exactly what I thought when I read this.

Either would have been excellent and the two of them working together is a powerhouse pairing! I'm expecting great things from them.

[uponit7771]

100. +1

[klook]

31. I'm interested in stopping Trump. Who's with me?

The ongoing divisive narratives about "Bernie Bros" and "Hillbots" do nothing but help Trump.

Any Democrat or progressive who perpetuates either of these two myths needs to splash his or face with cold water, wake the fuck up, and join the real fight of our lives.

I said [font size=36] either[/font].

[LiberalLovinLug]

43. THANK YOU!

[Fast Walker 52]

70. SRSLY

:

[romana]

38. Not true

She was not "universally hated" on both sides.

[JTFrog]

39. Excuse me?

I learned that the Russians interfered with our elections. I learned that Trump's campaign colluded with the Russians in said interference. I learned that Trump called on the Russians to hack Hillary. I learned that Hillary won far more votes than the orange anus face did. I learned that the Republicans used Crosscheck and gerrrymandering to deny a massive number of voters their rights. I learned that we had an influx of fake news and propaganda the likes of which our country has never seen.

Quit fucking using the narrative that somehow we had the wrong message or lost the election. This shit was straight up stolen and our fight is against the KGOP. Not the DNC. Not Democrats. Not Hillary.

For fuck's sake.

Wake the fuck up indeed.

[Alice11111]

64. Don't forget ComeysFuck over after prople had started voting.

Calculated by his den of Hillary Haters. This, while he sat on Trump’s Russia stuff and the intervention by a foreign power because it was too close to an election to reveal, and he keep setting on it through th EC vote. Still can't move his arrogant UNHONORABLE fanny. (The Dems not
going into Wisconsin, Michigan and parts of Penn, not to stri it up, wasn't the brightest though...the Rustbelt firewall
turned out to be a naive hope, not a wall...even after Michael Moore, party chairs, &elected officials, told them over and over.)

[JTFrog]

65. +1 nt

[FakeNoose]

132. Well said!

We can't ever forget this.

Hillary didn't LOSE - the election was stolen from her.

[yardwork]

42. Bullshit. Hillary Clinton is not "universally hated."

She won the popular vote by millions of votes. You may hate her - that's your opinion - but you don't speak for everybody else.

[bekkilyn]

45. Great, maybe she'll run again in 2020

Third time's the charm, right?

[Maru Kitteh]

59. It was a bullshit premise, pushing right-wing memes about HRC straight from the ass of

"alt-right" media. HRC won what is called "the election" in a true democracy by 3 million votes. More than any candidate not awarded the electoral college in history.

NOBODY called John Kerry "universally hated" when he lost the election by 3 million votes and the electoral college. Why the FUCK do you suppose that is?

Misogynistic BULLSHIT like that shouldn't even BE here.

[Jamaal510]

166. +1

[emulatorloo]

129. She's not going to run, so you can put your false memes in deep storage now

[nolabels]

44. I wouldn't get too worked up about it, it seems that just about everybody is still taking......

some refresher course on about what all that is, and that item in particular. Learning from the past is sometimes a perpetual thing that takes time to get started (probably has something to do with letting go of feelings that bind us)

[JI7]

53. there was a primary election which she won .

If she was hated she would not have won.

[JHan]

54. I'm sick of this meme some people carry on with..

Throw the millions under the bus who supported her why don't you - you know, like POCs and women and others who supported her in the primary and in the election.

Good job repeating RW themes and memes.

[stevenleser]

57. Correct. They are still buying into nonsense agitprop crafted by Rightwing pundits and the Kremlin.

[ismnotwasm]

108. And that right there is the crux of the matter.

When one digs under all the bullshit. Reactive racism and blatant sexism.

Trump has embodied what that actually looks like, only ~slightly~ tempered for special occasions.

Reject social justice (on try to blend it) in favor of a version of what amounts to a white-centric economic "justice" or despise social justice in favor of a blatantly white-centric economic system--what's the difference?

[Alice11111]

109. I think w the Trumpsters, it all boils down to racism.

The big dogs want their taxcuts, but they riled up the racists and fears, Islamaphobia (all during obama's term) to turn out ignorant votes. It is exaxtly what Karl Rove did for Bush with homosexuals. Hell, it might have been Karl's idea, pre Bannon.
Maybe even Rove, like the Russians, are having second thoughts now.

[JI7]

218. yup, the only group that really hates her in large numbers are hetero christian white men

yet whatever they think is always treated as if it's the norm and should be the norm.

dismiss the large majorities of most other groups that support her .

[stevenleser]

55. Exactly and 180 degrees wrong. The people that need to learn from this mistake are the people

who refuse to unite to defeat people like Trump, and George W. Bush, and all the bad rightwing candidates before him in the US and other countries.

Do you still think Nader was a good protest vote? Do you still think Gore was the same as Bush?

[RainAndMoreRain]

34. I Would Love To See A Tweet From Hillary

Something like "Still think Trump Cares 4 U?"

[JTFrog]

46. And what exactly would that do for you?

Most people who have said "I wish Hillary would", usually find another thing to be outraged about after she does whatever thing they wished she did.

The election season was incredibly brutal for her, for most Democrats and for women around the world. And even while she was feeling inconsolable, she still tried to spread positive messages to Democrats.

Hillary has far too much class to do childish things like get into a twitter war with the orange face of hate. And if she did, I'm sure she would use actual words.

[Gothmog]

178. How about this tweet for Hillary Clinton

Link to tweet

?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

Which was in response to this tweet

Link to tweet

[angrychair]

40. Please, I beg you and everyone like you

LET. IT. GO.
While you may mean well (I hope), your OP is not helping.
All this does is chum for sharks.

As my sig line states:
"Trump is a narcissistic, racist, bigoted and xenophobic fascist. We must all be united in our fight against his agenda because we will all be a victim of it."

[klook]

47. Thank you!

We have too much work to do to get sidetracked into these internecine battles between progressive candidates, their surrogates, and their followers.

[stevenleser]

51. You're not correct. That group needs to face their mistake and learn from it.

Right now they are in denial and are doing everything they can to not learn from their mistake.

That same mistake has been repeated multiple times. It gave us Nader which gave us George W. Bush and Iraq and all the rest of his actions.

We need to keep repeating the obvious until they get it.

[JI7]

56. it wasn't a mistake on their part

[stevenleser]

60. For many, I agree. Those people deserve the criticism for that reason and they deserve to be exposed

I am glad they have been essentially exiled from here.

[angrychair]

61. Let me be clear

I was and am an unapologetic Sanders supporter in the primaries and even now.

I was and am an unapologetic Hillary Clinton supporter in the presidential election and now.

I had and have valid concerns about both as candidates but gave each my full and uninhibited support for their campaigns.

Sorry but that subset that sat on their hands and talked shit about Clinton during the Presidential election are a very small minority. I could give a shit and just don't have time to listen to them piss and moan.

I care about putting that asshole and his entire cabinet out of office. I care about taking majorities in the House and Senate.

Most importantly, I care about getting Democratic Party majorities in every legislature in the country and every governor being a Democrat if we do not do that nearly everything else is impossible.

We did not loss this election because of a handful of crybabies, we lost this election because of gerrymandering and political collusion between the Republican Party and Putin's Russia.

[stevenleser]

76. I only have the slightest of disagreements with you. Mostly I agree but...

we absolutely in part did lose this election because of a handful of crybabies.

80,000 votes spread over three large states. That's all it was. And that is more than enough for a handful of crybabies to accomplish. They own Trump just like they own George W. Bush.

That there were also other causes to which to point, like several issues of election fraud, one of which you mentioned, does not lessen their culpability.

[angrychair]

80. With all due respect

This is a debate I am willing to have (if nothing else because I love to debate) but not until we get trump impeached and dissolve the republican majorities in the House and Senate...as a starting point.
It just too important. Thanks!

[Demsrule86]

96. I agree with you...

It has become clear that we ran against the Russians and the Republicans...and some of our voters were tricked...we need to put this behind us and beat the crap out of the GOP in the coming elections.

[kcr]

119. I'm not sure we can put it behind us though. The same thing is being tried again.

If we don't confront it, we'll lose.

[Demsrule86]

172. I noticed a very divisive thread was pulled a little while ago.

So maybe, we are beginning to here. And the fact that the Russians were putting out false shit on Wiki and on Facebook will help...and the budget will help...did you see student loans stuff?

[redgreenandblue]

87. Wrong. It was precisely the arrogance of people like you that lost the election.

The election was lost because the Clinton ecosystem and the DNC establishment believed that they could shame people into voting.

Obama knew in 2008 that he had to work hard to win over every single vote. In 2016, it was taken for granted that all votes belonged to Clinton and that calling people racist and sexist was a proper way to turn them out.

[stevenleser]

91. Nope, it's the arrogance of people who incorrectly portray

people like Gore and Hillary as they same as Bush and Trump and think that voting for those kinds of people is OK because they are having a tantrum that put us in those situations.

They are responsible for those votes and if they voted that way, they own Bush and Trump.

Clinton ecosystem. Do you even listen to yourself spouting terms that don't mean anything? All to justify people who voted for madmen and warmongers because they were having a tantrum.

[redgreenandblue]

99. I voted for Clinton in the GE and didn't vote for the primaries. But I saw this thing heading

towards a cliff from a mile away.

When I saw college professors, who had just voted for Clinton in the primaries, make Facebook posts to the tone of "And don't give me any of this crap that Clinton is XYZ" for all their students to read, I knew that we had lost. NEVER would anyone have done such a thing in 2008.

When the undecided, uninformed bystander perceives you as a bully then you have lost. Period.

[stevenleser]

103. I see my 2 year old headed for a tantrum at bedtime a mile a way too. She still needs to go to bed.

We're all adults. We're all capable of seeing the truth and are responsible for our actions.

[uponit7771]

101. No, we need to fight Russian and KGOP memes

[bullwinkle428]

41. Not going under my bus. Can't speak for others, though!

[JI7]

50. Ellison knows he was used by those types for their own hateful agenda

They never actually did much to support him. But use him to attack perez and other democrats.

[NurseJackie]

106. Many saw it as a continuation of old battles by-proxy. From all outward appearances...

... it appears that Keith likely agrees. I get the feeling he's fed up.

[still_one]

58. Keith has always been a loyal Democrat, a progresive, and a straight shooter

[peggysue2]

69. Yes!

Keith Ellison is a loyal Democrat, a progressive and a straight shooter. You can, in fact, be all three, rather than the self-immolating purists who yelp and gripe and insist on burning the house down.

I'm really sick of the Hillary complaints. Want to get pissed-off? Look to the Trumpster and his cabal who plan on sucking this country dry. With Russia's help.

Btw, Hillary Clinton won the popular vote. Unless you buy into the Trumpster's spin.

There is an enemy out there. It's not Hillary Clinton.

[still_one]

74. We are on the same page peggy

[keepthemhonestO]

67. maybe

he's trying to get some different opinions about what people think to use in the near future? He seems pretty smart to me, so I don't see him accidently stepping into that without intending to. JMHO

[Talk Is Cheap]

68. Context please....

[LovingA2andMI]

85. Agreed....

Context Much as a single Tweet means?

[seaglass]

93. It was most likely the response he got to this Tweet:

Link to tweet

or this one:

Link to tweet

[LovingA2andMI]

98. Thank You....

For the additional detail.

And it would be expected of Ellison to say/tweet/shout from rooftops just this in his quasi Deputy Chair/DNC position.

[Fast Walker 52]

73. thrown under the bus by fuckwits who have no business interfering in Dem politics

[LiberalLovinLug]

78. Who was Ellison talking about?

It was the wing nuts, deplorables, racists that voted for him. Yet you want to come on here and sow division on DU (as if we don't have enough on our plates) and blame a percentage of members who also joined a tiny website where broader discussion is allowed?

Most of those that joined JPR last July left here because it was a refuge and somewhere we could go after all critical discussion was banned and some felt it was important to have somewhere to go where they could feel free to raise any issues they had with Trump, Bernie, or Hillary.

I certainly did not agree with everyone on there. I wrote back against the Alex Jones types. I wrote against the idea of burning down the house as a means to some fantasy utopia. It is a much more open place. Of COURSE you will get more extreme views. Manny wrote an OP on why he DID vote for Hillary.

The vast majority that immigrated from here last July to JPR simply wanted a place to vent concerns they were forbidden to raise in here. Yes some had issues with Hillary's and the DLC corporate influence in their party. Many thought Bernie was the better choice and wanted a place where they could speak about it.

So fucking what!!

Please stop these kinds of petty ugly divisive OPs.

[bekkilyn]

92. +1

I recently signed up for an account over there because so many people here were yelling about it and I wanted to see what the big deal was. Though I haven't been over there long, I haven't seen overwhelming support of 45 and Russia as I've seen claimed by some here. Yes, there is more support for third parties there, but it's not everyone, but it seems that people can discuss issues within their parties without 15,000 loyalists jumping all over them for having a different opinion or voting for someone based on the letter next to their name. Most there seem very opposed to 45 and all the terrible things he is doing just like here, but may have a different view of how the problem can be resolved and a different opinion of why 45 was elected.

That's not to suggest that DU isn't a good site or doesn't have a lot of good people here too, but that the sites are different and have different things to offer to different people, and it doesn't have to be an either-or thing.

[LiberalLovinLug]

113. very well put

We are all angry and still in shock about what happened last Nov. And Bernie supporters went though a double kick in the guts, when our candidate lost, and then our party lost. News Flash: The vast majority of Sanders supporters, as Sanders himself, voted for Hillary! And any who proclaimed to follow Bernie who did not vote or voted for Trump, would never have voted for Hillary regardless. THAT is why this kind of OP is way off the mark.

What is astounding is that the same folks that were advocating for a strict adherence to the shutdown of speech in here about what went on in the primaries, in the time between the primaries and the election, are now the loudest voices in here stoking anger and divisiveness by rehashing old wounds from the primaries.

And doing it by abusing the words of Ellison to demonize other Democrats that may not have every single opinion they do in how to criticize or even if we should criticize the party or leaders of the party is deplorable behavior IMO.

[LovingA2andMI]

94. EXACTLY....

The 2016 Primaries will NOT be done for some folks until let's see, the 2020 Primary (and they will still be talking about the 2016 Primaries after that because letting that s**t for them is like parting the Red Sea fifty times over).

It has GOT OLD. REAL OLD. And frankly, says more than much about those who continue to debate some S**T that is DONE|. when America has an insane Man in the Gosh Darn White House.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

118. you went to a website that spun conspiracy theories like 'bill clinton has aids'

you're not the victim here and you have done nothing to end the divisiveness

[LiberalLovinLug]

121. It's not myself that is the victim

It's DU and the Democratic party that is the victim of these OPs.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

122. DU and the DEmocratic party are victims of the alt left who conspired with the alt right to take

down HRC

and JPR provided one of the platforms to do that conspiring in

[LiberalLovinLug]

125. LOL

[La Lioness Priyanka]

126. yeah the results are very funny indeed. Bill Clinton has AIDS, Clinton cause Benghazi, the email

reveal a conspiracy, she will cause a third world war and trump won't.

impressive stuff.

Funny thing is some of these people will be much worse affected than me, i live in a blue state with a democratic mayor and will probably be fine for the next few years.

[obamanut2012]

275. LP is right -- JPR is lietrally considered a Russian fake news site

LOL all you want, Priyanka is right, and you know it. Own it.

[emulatorloo]

120. OP did not mention JPR, and Ellison isn't talking about wing-nuts

[LiberalLovinLug]

124. Well a lot of the supporters of this OP sure think it's about JPR

And as far as I'm concerned, anyone that voted for Trump IS a wingnut

[emulatorloo]

127. Dunno could be about Reddit for all I know

Several BoB-type subs over there who have turned on Warren, Ellison, etc and even Bernie for saying nice things about HRC.

You are def right about that trump voter = wingnut voter!

[Skittles]

185. EVERYONE who bought the Hillary baggage BULLSHIT, they paved the way for TRUMP

that includes PLENTY of people on DU

[LiberalLovinLug]

197. So sorry you live in a democracy

That has primaries to decide candidates. In those primaries candidates criticize each other. Luckily Democratic candidates stick to the issues like Bernie and those that supported him. Enough with the damn emails! Amen! Along with Benghazi and any other dumb fake news about her. The reason why Bernie and his supporters were so adamant NOT to foment these kinds stories are because we wanted a fair critical battle..both ways, because we believed that we had the best ideas. The last thing we or Bernie wanted as to muddy the waters. Hillary was free to call Bernie inexperienced, or that Americans weren't ready for things like Single Payer or even a $15 per hour minimum wage or whatever she wanted. And Bernie could argue for those things, even that she was too closely tied to corporate donations, because he wasn't. That is her baggage, and that is his baggage. Everyone has some kind of baggage. Honest criticism of actual baggage is what goes on in primaries.

You seem to be saying that fake baggage is the same as actual baggage. And if anyone dares to criticize actual baggage, they are lumped in with the deplorables that promote anything from Bernie is a dangerous socialist and lives in a fairyland and hates black people, to Hillary ran a child pornography ring.

There seems to be a disconnect with your interpretation of intent of the the vast majority of Bernie supporters, outside and inside DU, where you conflate them with Russian trolls, Trump trolls and other extremists. Those who promote fake scandals and are not at all interested in fighting inequality and unfairness as promoted in Bernie's platform. Much of which was adopted by Hillary into her platform. It is and was not in our best interest to talk about her damn emails!

You want someone to blame, I get that. And its so much easier to smack a family member when you are mad. But please just stop your own fake news. Outside trolls infiltrated a lot of facebook pages and websites to foment this exact kind of false charges. You are feeding right into Putins and heir Donald's plan.

[Skittles]

202. what happened here was NOT DEMOCRACY

the most qualified person ever to run for president, a woman, was HELD TO IMPOSSIBLE STANDARDS while the least qualified ever, a man, was HELD TO NO STANDARDS AT ALL.

I'm not even specifically referring to Bernie voters, I'm referring to EVERYONE who EVER bought the BULLSHIT about Hillary. It was SICKENING and it VERY MUCH PAVED THE WAY FOR TRUMP.

[jalan48]

84. There's nothing we Irish like better than a good spat. Thank's for the great St. Patrick's Day post!

[Gothmog]

90. The Texas Democratic Party is having an event on April 1 to April 2 with Ellison and Perez

I am trying to get more details but I am considering attending this event in Austin https://secure.actblue.com/contribute/page/fss-170401?refcode=2017_MAR_FairShotSummit_Action_PM I have met Keith Ellison a couple of times and like him. I supported Tom Perez but have not met him yet.

[rtracey]

95. Well

Well face facts, I am a Kennedy liberal, and want all to be healthy, wealthy and living a great life, but the democrats are lost in the woods of life. We need to begin to be the party of ALL people, not the select few groups. We have worked deeply on our minority support system, that we have overlooked a large part of our population. We need young, progressive, responsible leaders to take the reigns and work to get ALL americans the values they seek. Some will NEVER listen and follow the democrats, I know. Many will say we are the party of minorities, making promises to the poor, seniors, blacks, Latinos, GLBT community, just to retain power. Well, that didnt work this election. Too many fell into the Fuckump trap of lies and deception and voted for the Russian. As democrats, we need to begin an new outreach to all and work to get healthcare back to the ones that will lose it in 2017, get good jobs from infrastructure and new solar and wind power production, try to make coal and other mining jobs safer, and more ecological. If we fail at this, then we fail our children, grandchildren....

[TXCritter]

105. Trump is going to regress us so far that establishment dems will once again be liberal.

[Eliot Rosewater]

133. On another alleged progressive message board there are several

pissed off folks at the new DNC head, saying he is same as the old boss, etc.

Setting up another insane situation where alleged progressives vote 3rd party or not at all, assuring GOP will be in charge forever.

I dont know the context of Keith's comment, but I think that sentiment applies to some still calling themselves progressives, which is bullshit.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

136. it will be less easy to trick young voters with these lies

once they have seen an actual GOP whitehouse and congress

every 8 years it's easy to bring back these lies because young voters don't have a strong memory of a republican. someone who is 20 today has very vague memories of the GWB era, and therefore is vulnerable to these lies.

[Eliot Rosewater]

137. Here is what I worry about, Bernie can be credited with creating interest with 20 something aged

Americans in voting and participating.

Most of them it seems to me have been taught that if they dont have the perfect candidate, like they thought Bernie was, then they wont vote or will vote 3rd party.

I see a future where mainstream democratic candidates lose elections they normally would win for this reason.

I think the GOP will rule forever, which is not long because all they know how to do is destroy and harm.

These new voters do NOT understand the TWO party system, it is CRUCIAL we teach them.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

138. i think experience is a big teacher.

[mcar]

139. K&R

[Tarheel_Dem]

143. Cough...Susan Sarandon....Cough. n/t

[JCanete]

144. I don't see a problem with that, or who would throw him under the bus for the comment.

I thought he was Bernie's endorsement, and Bernie himself endorsed and campaigned for Clinton, so who's going to do this on these grounds?

[Starry Messenger]

145. I'm dying to know which Young Turk he clapped back at last week too.

Those idiots have been keeping the chum stirred around the DNC election for weeks--insisting on seeing all the ballots and vowing to primary anyone who didn't vote for Keith. He must be heartily sick of them and tired of them using him as a club.

Like others have stated, he is a super-great guy, I would have been happy to have either him or Perez, and Ellison didn't deserve what a certain section of his fan club did in his name.

[ymetca]

156. I can understand it, Keith

It's because the tabloids in every Wal-Mart checkout lane in America keep smearing HRC CONSTANTLY. Along with screaming headlines about how Obama's "Deep State" keeps fucking up all of T-rump's plans. That's the shit the rubes in fly-over country are reading folks. And it makes it all the way to Capital Hill, with GOPers continuing to placate their mob with more investigations of total nonsense.

Meanwhile, the Bannon "deconstruction machine" continues chopping off executive branches for the fun and profit of thieves and grifters.

The trick with the long con is keeping them conned even after you've absconded with all the money.

[tazkcmo]

233. Fly over country?

Rubes? FU.

[ymetca]

294. Hey, I am one of them

living in one of the reddest states in the nation. We picked Bernie in the primaries, btw...

[Cha]

167. Because they're thoroughly brainwashed, Keith. Thank you

bringing that shite up, tho.

[NurseJackie]

290. I wish more people would ...

#BeLikeKeith and #BuckUp

[Cha]

291. Yes, BuckUP

Mahalo, Jackie

[Lotusflower70]

173. Ah yeah!

That's what I am talking about. It's time for unity. We can be angry about whether or not Bernie or Hillary should be in the White House but that solves nothing. It sucks that we are here in this mess but here we are. We have to move forward. And to be agree about who should be DNC chair is futile. Keith Ellison is trying to turn the anger into something positive. And I know we all deal with anger in different ways but we have to seriously examine the divides in the party in order to make progress in the midterms.

[PatrickforO]

176. Why would people have a problem with this. It's his opinion, and it is a

reasoned one.

[democratisphere]

177. Gag order.

[Snackshack]

179. Words...

On my PC screen. I must get mad at them...grrrrr...

I agree with Mr. Ellison. Nobody is perfect but OMG. How anyone could favor Trump over HRC defies all reason and logic.

[LiberalLovinLug]

191. So....where are these deplorable DUers you predicted would throw Ellison under the bus?

Go find another windmill

[NurseJackie]

250. The OP didn't specify DUers

[ornotna]

196. The torture never stops

[aikoaiko]

198. I find it hard to believe that Ellison wrote that.

I suspect a staffer did, but even if it was Keith Ellison, I think it is a bad idea to stir the shit bucket over what is admittedly "only a few people".

[Warren DeMontague]

200. Harry Reid: DNC was "worthless" under Debbie Wasserman Schultz

http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/311506-reid-dnc-was-worthless-under-wasserman-schultz

"Under the bus" with you, Harry Reid!

[QC]

256. So did anybody throw him under the bus yet?

I've looked around and haven't seen any such thing.

Got a link?

[seaglass]

261. Yes, the throwing under the bus happened on Twitter. Read the comments under his Tweets. n/t

[NurseJackie]

287. Thank you!

This website is a nice place to hang out and all... but it's not my entire world. I frequently venture out beyond the confines of this domain and observe what's happening in the rest of the world (digitally and in real life) you know? I imagine that it could be easy for people to fall into the trap of believing that if it didn't happen HERE then it didn't happen at all.

[Hortensis]

293. Well, at least 60 million would think well of him for this.

Congressman Ellison is doing fine.

[BainsBane]

295. Ellison has shown himself to be a man of great character

with focused priorities. Of course they hate him.