General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsSo where's the Democratic Party unified message?
Why aren't all of them saying everywhere "We want Donald Trump to resign. We do not feel he can be this country's leader."
ONE unified, consistent message. One single, devastating talking point for one week solid, everywhere, every time, every show, every guest.
Why aren't they doing that?
Republicans do this exact thing.
Why can't Democrats manage this?
leftstreet
(36,107 posts)They could have said the same thing about Bush - he didn't seem qualified to be the country's leader
Occulus
(20,599 posts)Look at how long we've been taking about Obama wiretapping Trump.
No evidence is needed.
Just SAY it.
Walk it back later if needed, but say it now, hundreds of times.
It's what a Republican would do, because IT WORKS.
FYI: yes, I'm advocating using Karl Rove tactics. I will NOT apologize for that.
leftstreet
(36,107 posts)The GOP has been winning the politics game for decades
I don't why the Democrats won't use the same tactics
LuvLoogie
(6,999 posts)Ultimately we have more respect for individuals, and base that respect on their humanity, not their contribution to someones bottom line. And because we respect people more, it damages us personally when we resort to deceitful, unscrupulous tactics in winning them to our side.
If their Rovian tactics and their control of the information infrastructure seem insurmountable, we can only keep at it. There is nothing else to do. The frustration we feel will cause us to loose focus and lash out. and that is what they want.
Occulus
(20,599 posts)How they apply those tactics, yes- THAT'S reprehensible, but the net effect is the same.
Let me give you an example of how a bad product can be successfully marketed and adopted by the public. Remember Olestra? Just in case you don't, Olestra was a fat substitute used in the production of high-fat snack food such as potato chips. It was FDA approved in 1996, but by the end of the '90s it was mostly gone from the market due to its unfortunate side effect of "greasy anal discharge" (I believe we call that "santorum" . Nonetheless, it was actually on the market for a few *years* before it was pulled because the messaging that was delivered regarding the product benefits of Olestra, as well as the product differentiation messages associated with the campaign, were so powerful in the public mind. After all, who didn't want a potato chip made with ingredients that added zero fat, calories, and cholesterol? It was all the rage... for a while.
Eventually, the downsides were too much for the public to ignore and the public stopped buying products made with Olestra. But think, for a moment, about whether that might have happened had Olestra done something less obvious. Would it still be on the market, even if it were somehow detrimental in another way? What if Olestra had only given your skin an odd scent? Possibly. Aspartame is still around, after all, and many of us (including myself) avoid it like the plague even though the FDA claims it's "safe".
You'd think that the embarrassing and unfortunate side effects of consuming Olestra would have been uncovered during product testing. Perhaps those side effects were uncovered and, like the GOP saying they want to cut Meals on Wheels, it was thought the public maybe wouldn't notice. My point here is that good messaging can deliver a bad product, and yes, that's what the GOP uses it for in many, many cases. That said, good messaging doesn't *have to* deliver a bad product! We know that Democrats' positions are more beneficial to the public than those of Republicans.
We should leverage Republicans' strategies and tactics as they apply to delivering consistent and repeated messaging to differentiate our "product" from theirs, to extoll the benefits/virtues and condemn the losses, and to do so over and over and over using the same coordinated points until *our* message is the topic of conversation.
Democrats are in the legislative minority pretty much across the board right now. We have the time and the opportunity to focus on the messaging right now, more than ever before. I'm saying that our legislative leaders need to take advantage of that in the same ways Republicans have always done.
It's marketing, and yes it can seem cynical and cold and calculating, but it *works*. All our household name brands- Betty Crocker, Jif, Smucker's, Gold Medal, Chef Boyardee, and so on- are proof positive that marketing messages work. Democrats should be using those same strategies to get the messaging to the public.
LuvLoogie
(6,999 posts)But Rovian tactics include lying about the other side and demonizing them. In marketing, there is a remedy through false advertising laws, but in politics our supposed arbitrator is the press. And you know how that has been working out.
I recall how different Jimmy Carter seemed. I feel like he ushered in the modern era of marketing a candidate. Of course Reagan and Atwater flipped that into how to demonize the opposition.
I suppose one thing I would do differently in our marketing going forward is to hold up a mirror to the dumb choices people make, to poke fun at and ridicule and shame the voter with their choosing the McConnells, the Ryans, the Kings, trump... And leverage that to showing the damage they are doing to their families' futures.
We should market our diversity and generosity as inevitable and better and overwhelming to their insular hate and fear. We should act as if our way is better. That is going to be on Perez at the DNC. We'll see how he does.
I think as individuals we should stop arguing with the entrenched and move forward.
RKP5637
(67,107 posts)Occulus
(20,599 posts)in an earlier post that got NO responses.
We have to do better than "cursive is better!"
I mean, fuck that whole thread. In the ear.
lunatica
(53,410 posts)Wash you mouth out. Or your typing fingers.
former9thward
(31,997 posts)And most of his contributions were to Democrats. That is why the Clintons came to his wedding.
RandiFan1290
(6,231 posts)The more republicons will remind you that he use to be a Democrat! lol
I knew it!
Vinca
(50,269 posts)Republicans won't be able to blame anyone but themselves for this nightmare.
lunatica
(53,410 posts)for him to hang himself? There are over 3 million Americans on the line here.
Occulus
(20,599 posts)into Americans' minds.
This is very basic messaging. Very, very basic stuff.
Demsrule86
(68,556 posts)he may not get impeached which means we need to worry about 18 the most...keep all Dems and take as many seats as possible...I think we have Virginia race for governor this year too.
Occulus
(20,599 posts)This needs to be a constant drumbeat. CONSTANT.
For a week or two, all they hear from Democrats.
This. Is. Marketing.
Demsrule86
(68,556 posts)do need to be in front of the cameras discussing the horror show that is Trump...but we don't have access to Rightie media so we won't be able to do what you suggest.
Occulus
(20,599 posts)Democrats are on the media a lot. The media loves controversy, loves a horse race, loves anything that gives them ratings.
The "oh my God, do you hear what they're saying" effect works fantastically well for Republicans.
How many threads right here on DU are devoted to exactly that every single day?
If Democrats hammered the "we have no confidence in Trump, we think he needs to resign" message were uttered over and over again by every Democrat every time they are on the air everywhere, they would be invited on that program again to explain in detail why they said that. That's how the corporate media works- by getting attention and keeping attention.
Don't say why they think that the whole first week! Just say they think he should resign.
Week 2,START saying why. Two or three talking points. Build it up over a whole month or more.
A whole political party got constant attention by harping on Obama's birth certificate, Obama's socialist health care, Obama's death panels.
Hillary's emails. Hillary speech transcripts. Aren't those messages being blamed for her loss, repeatedly, right here on DU?
Why can't Democrats do the exact same thing?
LaydeeBug
(10,291 posts)Occulus
(20,599 posts)It assumes the levers of power belong to people with a sense of blind justice. They don't.
Democrats need to all be saying the same thing at the same time in a coordinated fashion from week to week right now.
As it is, we are herding cats. We can't afford any longer to be as uncoordinated as we have been for the past forty years. We need unified cross-media messaging. Immediately.
Trekologer
(997 posts)I say mostly because there are some things that need to be (and are being) said such as talking about the CBO score on RyanCare/TrumpCare and the budget cuts.
Look at the reaction to the Democrats who didn't go to the joint session speech--it gave the Republicans something to attack instead of having to defend Trump and his idiocy and the GOP caucus' agenda. The last week, the Republicans have been twisting in the wind trying to defend their own policies.
They're already starting to eat their own--let them go at it.
nikibatts
(2,198 posts)for criminal charges so that the outcome will be several sets of handcuffs, including one set for 45. Give it a little time.
Vinca
(50,269 posts)Occulus
(20,599 posts)if legal evidence were provided.
That's an "if" I don't think we have time for. The messaging really ought to be put forward pretty much regardless of whether or not there's evidence of actual wrongdoing. If there is, great! That can be easily folded into any narrative and I'm certain it would rise like a good dose of yeast in a ball of dough.
But I don't think we should *count* on that happening. We were all utterly certain that Fitzgerald would indict Dick Cheney- or was it Karl Rove? It's been a long time since "Fitzmas"- for outing Valerie Plame.
Remember how that turned out?
That was another instance where solid and consistent messaging might have done some good. I'd like to avoid repeating a missed opportunity if at all possible.
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)member of any organized political party. I'm a Democrat."
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)valid.
ymetca
(1,182 posts)doesn't really stand a chance against the Cthulhu monster the Republicans have summoned from the Deep.
The Republicans have engaged in a Faustian Wager, their minds blown by the Internet/Chaos Magic being unleashed into the Noosphere of mass human consciousness. "'Tis magic hath ravished me!"
I meet the most normal-looking people, formerly rock-ribbed, down-to-earth, suspicious of puttin' on airs folks, who now espouse the craziest religious nonsense I have ever heard.
If the Devil is behind it all, then Jesus be damned, and Katie bar the door against such "libtards" as myself, who cannot fathom the secret ways of Gawd-Awful-Lovely.
Obama was right when he said they cling to their god and their guns because Washington does nothing for them. And now all their prophesies shall be self-fulfilled! Amen! The Lord Hath Spoken!
Democrats should be handing out joints at T-rump rallies. At least it would all be funnier than it is now...
Hekate
(90,674 posts)....they are Democrats. All credit to Will Rogers, but that line ceased to be funny somewhere around 1955.
If you want a unified message, don't wait for "them." Join Indivisible, and become "us."
Occulus
(20,599 posts)They are the ones who have the national podium from which to distribute the message.
It can't come from the bottom. This kind of unified, consistent, wall-to-wall messaging *must* come from those with access to the national media.
We can't do this. They, our elected Democrats, have to do it.
They, and only they, have the kind of market penetration necessary. We are straws in the wind. They are BRANDS.
Only they have the voice needed.
Marketing 101 here.
Hekate
(90,674 posts)...and the spontaneous Airport Demonstrations have all had an effect on our elected representatives. They've been disheartened as much as the rest of us. This gives them hope and courage to know that we are making our voices known in such numbers.
Occulus
(20,599 posts)We have to start acting on that truth.
Look, I get it. I really do. You believe in the system. You believe in the ideal the system represents.
That's great. We need that. But we also need to accept the reality of the world that actually exists.
Believing in democracy has all the meaning of a warm bucket of spit when almost 50% of the people living in a democracy don't participate in it. The ones that do are, for the most part, team jersey voters. I don't like that, but that's the framework we live in.
Ideals don't matter at all to nearly all voters. Messaging, though- everyone, without exception, responds to messaging. The airport demonstrations weren't effective because of the demonstrations. They were effective because of the messaging that came with the demonstrations. If the messaging hadn't been there, if that messaging hadn't been consistent, constrained to one single issue as it was (and as Occupy was *not*), those demonstrations would have flashed in the pan and died without any national mention.
That's what I think we need: coordinated national messaging.
Yes, it's cynical. Yes, it's calculated. Yes, it ignores the belief in the ideals in favor of the manipulative methods of modern marketing.
All that said, coordinated messaging works. It works well, and it's proven. We have all our known national product brands- for example: McDonald's, Tide, Scott, Tupperware, Ziploc- to hold up as proof that messaging done right works.
Democrats need to be sending a coordinated message that Trump has to go.
They aren't.
Why not?
Hekate
(90,674 posts)Occulus
(20,599 posts)I'm among the very few who saw the Bush motorcade egged. I wasn't there, either. That protest was huge.
It's vastly unremembered.
The protests against the invasion of Iraq was also rather large and left no mark, had no effect, and accomplished exactly nothing of any substance whatever. All the uniting against a common cause and camaraderie and sense of community and of purpose that were found that day were a wasted effort; Bush, as you'll recall, was reelected.
The recent pipeline protest had similar success.
Protest, in today's America, has no positive effect. It often has the reverse. We have to be smarter, quieter, more clever, and better organized than any bottom-up "movement" can possibly achieve if we want to win in this America.
The only reason the civil rights protests worked was because of organization through churches. Specifically, churches in the black communities of the South, and only because of the messaging made possible through those channels.
The only organized channels we have today are in the national media, through our elected representatives. They *have to be* our voice.
8f we don't find a way to unite them we all will lose the fight.
Hekate
(90,674 posts)...that nothing Trump said or did would be by our consent.
So I won't be seeing you at the barricades, metaphorical or otherwise, it seems. But if you decide to do anything aside from waiting for "leaders" to speak out instead of you doing so, be sure to let us know. We will find it encouraging.
mcar
(42,307 posts)Occulus
(20,599 posts)except to say that both of you are both missing the point and trying to shoot the messenger.
BainsBane
(53,032 posts)Complaining about he Party on a message board doesn't communicate your concerns. You can do that by contacting your elected reps and the party leadership and/or protesting. Democracy requires civic engagement. If you insist on treating it as a spectator sport, your voice can't be heard.
Occulus
(20,599 posts)If you believe the only way to accomplish these goals is to protest and become "engaged" (and, I'm certain, engaged in a specific way you approve of) you are very badly myopic.
The Democratic Party ALSO needs people who aren't protesting, but are in offices until 3am, coordinating messaging, designing media campaigns, and putting together calls to action our politicians can use in the media, as a cohesive, coordinated unit, to hammer a particular frame of argument again and again and again.
Protests and letters to a Senator a d sit-ins and whatnot cannot accomplish that goal, and it's an absolutely critical one. Without solid messaging to the public, we are an uncoordinated, goalless, unfocused herd of cats.
Solid messaging is the point of this discussion. You are completely missing the point.
sharedvalues
(6,916 posts)Messaging is key. Why do so many Americans hate Obamacare when asked, but love what it does for them?
Because Democrats' messaging about Obamacare was worse than Republicans' messaging. Period. If you want sanity to return to America we have to communicate better.
sharedvalues
(6,916 posts)Here's what the right does- talking point coordination (and brainwashing young naive idealistic 21 yr old who don't realize how the GOP donor class is trying to screw the middle class)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/01/31/AR2010013102860.html
The left needs similar messaging coordination.
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)Occulus
(20,599 posts)One day's worth of talk in our 24 hour news cycle.
We need ONE message, a message that encompasses everything, spoken for a week or more, nonstop, with no deviation.
Republicans do this AL THE TIME.
Why aren't we?
BainsBane
(53,032 posts)If you aren't impacted by cuts to those programs. For those who are not so fortunate, it's a matter of life and death.
Occulus
(20,599 posts)Look, I *know* that what I'm saying seems cold and cynical and heartless. I'm specifically and intentionally divorcing all of the emotional attachment we feel about this from the methodology and the goals I'm putting forward.
I know it's hard to believe, but this is exactly how Republicans have won so much for so long: they remove the emotional impact from the discussion and focus solely upon voters as if they are members of a marketing persona. That's why Republicans sound so cold and callous when they're discussing their plans. They're using tried-and-proven marketing strategies to reach their voters, and dammit, IT WORKS.
Why do you think Republicans have never once made any serious effort to make abortion illegal? Why do you think Republicans have never a tally done away with Medicare or Social Security? They promise the moon by telling their voters *exactly* what they know their voters want to hear and, again, it *works*.
Trump is batshit crazy. He'll actually try to deliver on those things, and guess what? Republicans are already trying to get him to wall some of it back because they know that actually delivering on what their fringes desire the most will he an electoral disaster for them.
Will that make them stop promising those things? Hell no, because they *also* know that those promises deliver votes. In marketing language, those votes are purchases, and purchases prove that a marketing campaign is a success for those customers.
What I'm saying is that the messaging Republicans are using very obviously works, and that Democratic politicians need to use those same strategies and the same level of precise, timed coordination Republicans do. Because, again, it *works*.
pat_k
(9,313 posts)... to save the nation, we'd better figure out how, and do a better job than EVER before.
While there is so much attention of "replacing ACA" they should put forward their own "fix" bill that adds the public option. And they need to mount a coordinated effort to "sell it."
More on WHY it is vital for the party do this:
Why Dems need to put forward, and Make the Case for, our own ACA "fix" bill:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=1728146
And why they need to connect it to making the case for universal health care:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=8773578
BainsBane
(53,032 posts)To tell them that's what you want? Or perhaps a celebrity pol that specializes in vanity legislation?
You can also press for a public option at the state level. Our governor is proposing just that.
pat_k
(9,313 posts)Wrote Pramila Jayapal. She is quite "junior" and so I don't think the leadership would pay much attention to a call from her, but she's my rep so that's who I wrote to. This weekend I want to find the time to write letters to the leadership. Specifically, Pelosi, Hoyer (minority whip), Neal (ranking member of Ways and Means), Van Hollen (ranking member Budget). It's taking me longer to compose letters to them because I want to cite some of the things they have said on the Repub bill, and see if I can find anything about where they stood on the Public Option when it was "on the table."
first of all, I don't think Democrats are all that united. Elected Democrats seem, currently, to be more united than they were when GWB was selected. I have not forgotten, nor forgiven, the lackluster opposition, when there was any opposition, from elected Democrats the last time there was a Republican in the WH.
While I would get some visceral satisfaction out of a unified statement like that, I don't know that I want Pence to be president, either. Pandora's box has been opened. How could Trump be removed without replacing him with another terrible Republican? Maybe that's a good topic to investigate.
Occulus
(20,599 posts)We've fought him and his before, successfully. All the progress we've achieved since Reagan is proof of that success. His platform is a dead end. Everyone knows it.
Trump is simply mad, and very dangerously so. I'd *much* rather deal with Pence. Apart from that, removing Trump would defang Pence.
An installed President née VP has no mandate.
LWolf
(46,179 posts)I have to say, though, that the shudder factor for Pence, while not as strong as those for Trump, is still formidable.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)It's our responsibility as citizens to create the message. Politicians are merely our vehicle for it. When some of you learn this, you'll finally stop getting hung up on needing Mr. Perfect Candidate that Meets All of My Needs As a Human.
Occulus
(20,599 posts)We've been acclimated to it. We are no longer capable as a society of hearing messages that are not organized campaigns that use marketing techniques that speak to the customer personas we slot into.
This is why the smart options, like solar power and electric vehicles, don't and can't catch on as viable options. We are a society steeped in marketing, boiled in profit margins, stewed in advertising.
I'm not saying we need a perfect candidate to appear. I'm saying we need our elected officials to market one to America, using marketing that's just as slick and consmer-tuned as the Republicans have done for forty years.
And on this topic, I'm not even talking about candidates. I'm talking about messages, about building a messaging campaign against Trump, delivered by our elected officials through the national media, progressively building up to a frenzy of calls for his resignation. A month or more of solid, unified, "no confidence" messaging, repeating the same things over and over and over again until what Democrats are saying is ALL the media can talk about.
Messaging. We need to get a lot better at it. Yesterday.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)If we have as a society checked out from giving messages to politicians and just expect to be spoon-fed, then it is no wonder why we are where we are at.
Sometimes progressive groups, for example, come up with messages for their coalitions to move them to action to contact their elected members, but that's about it. Slogans come from below and filter up to leadership, not the other way around.
Occulus
(20,599 posts)I recall a while back- a year or two ago, I think, but maybe it was longer than that- when the Daily Show pointed out Republicans actually doing what I'm suggesting. Stewart did a montage of clips of the Sunday Fox talking head shows, a montage that took one-liner talking points from something like twelve of them and played them all in sequence.
All of those talking heads were repeating the exact same phrase, across multiple shows, all day long, over and over again. And what was the net effect? That phrase was being repeated in the media the following week. We noticed here on DU; the folks at Kos also commented on it as I recall. By then, of course, it was far too late to change the course of that particular river,and whatever message was intended had been delivered and became the conversation du jour.
I get that Democrats don't have a whole news network in their pockets! That said, our elected officials- at the state and federal level, on both sides of the aisle- already go on camera, either at the Capitol Building or on shows "live from their district" or calling in to radio stations or whatever. They have spokesmen, too, and people in their offices. That's also part of doing their jobs, and that's especially true when the other side has complete control of the legislative bodies in Washington *and* control of most of the state legislatures. For all that bleak landscape, however, they can still give an opposing message, and that's what I'm saying needs to be leveraged intelligently; they all need to be saying and repeating the same things at the same times, together, to get through America's hamster-sized attention span.
Again, this is marketing. Marketing and perception management, and those things *never* come from the bottom up if they're to be successful. A slogan, in the end, is nothing more than what's known in marketing as a "call to action" ("Buy now!", "Get a free quote today!", and "Click here to order" are also calls to action), and by themselves they do nothing. Those calls to action are created, tested, and carefully chosen every single time they're deployed- and I use that word "deployed" very precisely- to hook the customer in and create a conversion (aka a "sale" .
In the case of politics, that conversion is the vote. The messaging plays a critical key role in creating the conversion, but it tends to get lost in the background unless it is carefully timed, coordinated, repetitive, and laser-focused on delivering and reinforcing the desired perception.
I'm explicitly not saying that we need to ditch activism in any way whatever. What I'm saying is that if the messaging is delivered and reinforced from the top, the activists' messages will (if the messaging is successful) be more in line with the top-down goals.
What we don't want is something that's blurred and confused like the "free Mumia" group did to the MoveOn marches, or what Occupy's "organic" but fractured and finally unsuccessful and eventually reviled efforts toward whatever it was Occupy was trying to accomplish became in the end. That last is actually a very good example of a failed effort at messaging that ended up being entirely counterproductive, both at Kos on here on DU, and it's why coordinated messaging needs to come from the top down.
I think it needs to be clearly understood that the sort of messaging campaign I'm talking about is necessarily autocratic. It has to be in order to be a success; all marketing campaigns are like that and people get fired for altering them without authorization. There's one authority in charge (in the case of politics, the party's leadership) because that's how tightly coordinated ad campaigns function.
Again, remember what the Daily Show pointed out. That works for Republicans because they- or their surrogates- have the discipline and top-down structure in place to deliver their consistent messages repeatedly, all day, all week, until their message is what the media is talking about (because their message is what the media, all over the media, is being told). Democrats need to take that time-tested and proven strategy and run with it.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)ismnotwasm
(41,976 posts)AND Apparently Democrats are in hiding and not speaking out or introducing legislation...oh wait
Occulus
(20,599 posts)This is about public messaging in the corporate media on the national level, and delivering that messaging in a calculated and coordinated way along a unified theme.
Hekate
(90,674 posts)Occulus
(20,599 posts)NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Occulus
(20,599 posts)and direct access to the party apparatus necessary to coordinate and wage a national media campaign of the sort I'm describing?
There is no "we" in this particular discussion (unless you and the others taking objection to my pronoun are yourselves elected officials). "They", the politicians at the top of the party, have to be the ones to do it.
I am completely *and intentionally* excluding the voters, activists, and all registered Democrats not elected to state office or above from this discussion.
"They" have to be the ones to go in front of the media with a coordinated and unified message.
Do you get it now?
ismnotwasm
(41,976 posts)So to sum it up, you feel Democrats, aka "them" haven't done or said anything that leads to a unifying message, correct?
Occulus
(20,599 posts)I think I've already detailed what kind of approach they should be making on the national stage, but I'll reiterate by point:
1) Democratic politicians should be repeating the same talking points in multiple media outlets (print, radio, television, internet) daily
2) those talking points should last for however long it takes for the corporate media to ask them for "clarification" or to "go into more detail"
3) The entire campaign should be a progressive upward-slanting mass of increasing "exception taking" (so to speak) over a period of weeks
4) the campaign should lead up to a unanimous din of "Trump should resign"
5) the campaign should be coordinated from the top of the party establishment
Again, this is pure marketing. This is how Republicans make hay. I'm saying that Democratic politicians- "they" - should be taking the Republicans' strategies and tactics and using it against them.
What I simply cannot understand is why or how anyone here could possibly take exception to that idea, because it works and Republicans *proved* that in the 2016 election.
mcar
(42,307 posts)Seriously? Please provide evidence of that.
The Democrats are doing fine, attacking the R agenda on all fronts. Demanding Trump's resignation is not the main message. That would give the Rs something to unite against.
Let them eat their own without interference.
1) Obama's birth certificate
2) Hillary's emails
3) Hillary's GS speech fees
Those were *massively* successful from the Republicans' POV.
Look, this all started during the Reagan administration with "trickle down economics" and "I'm from the government and I'm here to help" and "make the government so small you can drown it in the bathtub".
Bill Clinton got impeached because the messaging Republicans fed America worked. What did he actually do? He lied about getting a hummer in the Oval Office.
Impeached. But before that, the messaging was fast and furious, AND coordinated and national.
Democratic politicians need to do that NOW, with Trump, and they are the only ones with the exposure and access to be able to do it.
No amount of protests can do it, because protests are by their very nature organic, uncoordinated, fluid, and multifaceted.
We need a surgical strike marketing campaign that Trump should resign. Only Democratic elected officials, acting as a single unit with a single set of messages delivered in a tightly coordinated manner, can accomplish that goal.
AgadorSparticus
(7,963 posts)I don't get it..
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)similar and got a dozen flames.
We are missing a golden opportunity right now - to spread the word across mass media. And, we aren't doing anything. JHC - surely Hollywood would chip in and come with some kind of ad money??
We have learned zero from how Dipshit got in - and the power of media
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)Response to Occulus (Original post)
Post removed
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)Occulus
(20,599 posts)Response to Occulus (Reply #53)
msanthrope This message was self-deleted by its author.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)msanthrope
(37,549 posts)What are they?
lapucelle
(18,252 posts)is that we're better off with a wholly impotent President Trump than with an ideologue like Pence or Ryan, both of whom understand the process of turning an agenda into legislation.
Occulus
(20,599 posts)As I said above, Pence is a dead-end. Democrats have dealt with his ilk before, quite successfully. Purely religious ideologues have (until Trump, and now only because they have full control) not had nearly the traction we've always been afraid they would have.
I suspect, from the straws in the wind I've been reading here and elsewhere, that Trump faces some seriously, ah, challenging days ahead. That's part of why I'm posting this thread now- I'd like to see some strong, coordinated, single-point, repetitive messaging when the bag of hammers falls on him.
And I do think it's when, and not if.
lapucelle
(18,252 posts)will keep Pence occupied with his religious agenda and accommodate those goals, while Ryan and the rest of the Republican leadership get busy destroying the social safety net.
Occulus
(20,599 posts)Unless there's a Democratic takeover of at least the House in 2018, much of the safety net will be dismantled anyway.
At this point, there is *nothing* left to lose. All the untried strategies ought to be on the table. Why not try the tactics that have worked so well for the other side?
lapucelle
(18,252 posts)calling on Trump to resign. If he were to resign, I'd like to see the Democrats play hardball concerning President Pence's vice presidential pick.
I don't think Pence has clean hands in the Michael Flynn affair. If Trump goes, Pence should go as well. The allegations concern campaign and transition lies and illegalities. The whole ticket is dirty.
Occulus
(20,599 posts)If Trump goes down, he will pardon Pence the way Nixon pardoned Ford. That'll stick, and has precedent.
It'll suck, but it will have the benefit of removing Pence's right against self-incriminating testimony under the 5th Amendment. Whether that fact will be leveraged should it come to such testimony is anybody's guess; were I in charge, I'd press that issue hard, but I somehow doubt that's what would happen.
And no, for the record, that doesn't make me at all happy.
lapucelle
(18,252 posts)by Trump for anything Pence may have done (or not have done) during the campaign or transition?
The actual Ford - Nixon precedent involves a newly sworn-in president pardoning an ex-president who had just resigned in disgrace. This is not the same situation. Here you would have an "about to resign in disgrace" president pardoning a successor who may be implicated in the same illegalities. If there was Trump campaign collusion with Russia, then the ticket was a beneficiary of that crime.
I remember when Ford pardoned Nixon. It didn't sit well with a lot of people, and politics and media coverage were not the public blood sports that they are today.
Occulus
(20,599 posts)You're right, and the precedent doesn't apply to this situation. Furthermore, the pardon power is limited only against "crimes against the United States, and in cases of impeachment".
I'm sure that Trump would try it, though, and argue hard that Pence committed no crime against the United States.
Good catch, and my bad. Maybe I need more coffee...
lapucelle
(18,252 posts)the likes of which we have never seen. My real point is that I don't really blame the Democratic leadership for moving slowly and carefully in this mine field.
They may be waiting in the hope that the drip-drip-drip will lead to the Democrats taking control of the House and/or Senate in 2018. The longer the Republicans are in chaos, the more likely that will be.
There is the danger, however, that Trump and/or the Republicans will do irreparable harm in the interim.
Trump seems to bankrupt and destroy every single thing he touches. Our government is no exception.
ecstatic
(32,701 posts)what to say because they all listen to Limbaugh, etc.
Occulus
(20,599 posts)What has the media- and DU- spent the last week plus talking about? Obama wiretapping Trump. Microwaves with spy cameras!
Surely, *surely* Democratic leaders can come up with something the media can't help but bite at.
Coordinate that message and sell it to America.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)I get 5 to 10 emails a day from Democrats across the country or from the DNC or different reps or Senators outlining what they're doing.
Your donations to Democrats would have generated emails. Signing up with the websites, would have generated emails. Attending your local Democratic Precinct meeting, would have generated emails.
Hmmmmmm.....
Response to msanthrope (Reply #77)
Post removed
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)I generally find that when one reacts like a scalded cat, one is faced with uncomfortable truths.
George II
(67,782 posts)....although I've contributed many times, one doesn't have to be a contributor to sign up for them.
Also, as you point out, joining the local Democratic Party/Club/Committee will provide all this information, too. I've been an officer of mine for more than 12 years, we do talk monthly about upcoming campaigns and candidates, not just local ones.
George II
(67,782 posts)...you would have seen it.
The only one who hasn't appeared unified yet isn't a Democrat anyway.