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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsHillary: 'I'm ready to come out of the woods'
Link to tweet
Hillary Clinton spoke at the Society of Irish Women's 19th Annual St Patrick's Day dinner in Scranton, Pa., Friday and encouraged people not to let politics divide them.
"I do not believe that we can let political divides harden into personal divides," Clinton said, according to reporters at the event. "We cant just ignore or turn a cold shoulder because they disagree politically, we have to listen to each other and learn from each other."
"I am ready to come out of the woods and to shine a light on whats already happening around kitchen tables at dinners like this to help draw strength to enable everyone to keep going, that's the spirit of Scranton," she said.
The statement that she is ready to "come out of the woods" appears to allude with the viral posts of Clinton being spotted hiking in the woods near her Chappaqua, N.Y., home shortly after the election, which was also the subject of a "Saturday Night Live" skit.
It also suggests Clinton, who has remained relatively low-profile since the election, is ready to get back into the spotlight.
read: http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/324605-hillary-clinton-at-st-patricks-day-event-im-ready-to-come-out
ProudLib72
(17,984 posts)You're country sure needs your help now!
Maybe she'll join forces with Obama?
L. Coyote
(51,129 posts)OnDoutside
(19,956 posts)Another email investigation....you can set your clock by these b'stards.
BlueMTexpat
(15,368 posts)Cha
(297,190 posts)rgbecker
(4,831 posts)Seems like her tag line hasn't been replaced.
She could be a real leader by calling out Trump and his republican policies for what they are: Take from the rich and give to the poor.
bigtree
(85,996 posts)LuvLoogie
(6,999 posts)supporters as deplorable. She called him out again and again.
She has been in the mix since she was 15. She IS a real leader.
And still getting daggers in the back, I see.
Hekate
(90,674 posts)fleabiscuit
(4,542 posts)Cha
(297,190 posts)radical noodle
(8,000 posts)I guess you haven't noticed. I have a feeling that for some she will never do enough even if she dragged a guillotine behind her and managed to lop off his head.
Response to radical noodle (Reply #97)
Name removed Message auto-removed
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)Codeine
(25,586 posts)Cha
(297,190 posts)aware of what she actually had to say.
Bradical79
(4,490 posts)Your fake quote is the polar opposite from reality. Calling out Trump and his supporters to the degree that she did has been a common criticism of her being to harsh. Conservatives and many self described moderates were furious, and it was considered a political mistake.
juxtaposed
(2,778 posts)Heartstrings
(7,349 posts)Agschmid
(28,749 posts)But that should not include a run again for President.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)We need new leadership at the national level. Younger.
I don't want Bernie to run again, either.
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)Cha
(297,190 posts)She would have made an Excellent Prez.
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)But she is not President, and should not run again.
It's my opinion of course and last I checked I was allowed to have one. Even through my previous post was alerted on.
We need to bring the party together, not bring up divisions again.
Cha
(297,190 posts)I wouldn't even think of alerting on it.
Keith Ellison and Tom Perez are out there trying.. and I love them for it.. They damn well know what the Democratic Party Stands FOR.
SunSeeker
(51,550 posts)And why is it that so many people, especially right wingers but also many on this board such as yourself, imply others are trying to deny them the right to have an opinion? Since when is someone disagreeing with your opinion an attempt to silence you?
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)I found it simply unbelievable that someone here thinks we're not allowed to have an opinion on potential future candidacies.
SunSeeker
(51,550 posts)Impressive deflection, but NO ONE disputed that someone alerted on that post.
And NO ONE here is saying "we're not allowed to have an opinion on potential future candidacies." Someone gave their opinion about a potential future candidacy, and another DUer gave her opinion about that opinion. That's how a discussion board works.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)I see the assertion that the post was alerted on, and then your response about it being "baseless".
I'm not surprised people have different opinions on whether Hillary should be our candidate again in 2020. What surprised me was that someone thinks it should be against the rules for a member to say they want someone else.
SunSeeker
(51,550 posts)I did not alert on the post, nor did Cha.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Thats not an accusation against anyone specific, it's just a statement that someone sent an alert.
I don't know how you're getting your interpretation from that post.
SunSeeker
(51,550 posts)Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)"It's my opinion of course and last I checked I was allowed to have one..."
2+2=Yellow is an opinion as well, and regardless of how idiotic it is, no one is arguing a denial of a right to that opinion.
"We need to bring the party together, not bring up divisions again..."
No doubt, you'll allege to be doing so, regardless of what your posts may otherwise indicate.
Susan Calvin
(1,646 posts)But I'm capable of reading between the lines.
Response to Cha (Reply #61)
Susan Calvin This message was self-deleted by its author.
JHan
(10,173 posts)She said before the election that if Trump won she would do what she could to ensure he doesn't fuck up country completely.
Susan Calvin
(1,646 posts)Anything she can do now, right now, I'm grateful.
samnsara
(17,622 posts)..she doesn't have to be POTUS to be effective. I will support her in anything she does.
calimary
(81,238 posts)I would love to see her return to the front lines. We need her! We need that strength, those brains, and that heart. I suspect her reemergence would spark a fair amount of buyer's remorse. People may appreciate her more.
I don't care what it is. We need her and I want her back in the trenches again, on active mode. The sooner the better.
Susan Calvin
(1,646 posts)Most recently.
I do not want to hear "Clinton" and "public office" in the same breath. I'm aware she is the legitimate President. I think she wants to run again. I don't want her to for both emotional and practical reasons. And I really don't like the whole family. I am nevertheless a Democrat.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Cha
(297,190 posts)radical noodle
(8,000 posts)uponit7771
(90,335 posts)fleabiscuit
(4,542 posts)Me.
(35,454 posts)JHC.. after all we've been through and Hillary.. who actually got cheated out of it.. is ready to help us!
karynnj
(59,503 posts)A much stronger case could be made that Gore was and a stronger case could be made that Kerry was. The fact is that all three elections were from a nearly 50/50 country. Both Kerry and Gore were attacked at least as dishonestly as Cinton was. There was absolutely nothing in the actual NAVY record - which was online throughout the election, that showed Kerry as anything other than a very good person. To add insult to injury, Bill Clinton, with his shakier record on Vietnam, actually attacked Kerry in 2005 for not having fought back.
The Comey letters clearly impacted the race and you can argue they were unwarranted - and I would agree. However, given everything we knew of both nominees, it is more likely that the large undecided (and it was atypically large) ended up going mostly with Trump. Exit polls show that of the people with an unfavorable opinion of both - went to Trump.
I suspect that what the Comey letters did was to dishearten many Democrats or independents who had reluctantly lined up with Clinton - and they did not vote. I assume this because I suspect that the shift in the last two weeks might have been more a shift in the likely voter model that is applied to the polled results. My reason to suspect this is that people like Feingold suddenly saw their numbers drop by the same large amount (or more). NOTHING negative came out on Feingold, who was calle dthe conscience of the Senate by people like John Kerry for a reason - he is very clean. Like HRC, he was far ahead - then finished losing by a significant amount.
I think the head of the ticket is the strongest driver in getting the vote out. I suspect that hearing all the Clinton stuff again brought up the Clinton baggage and all that Democrats went through in the 1990s - even if unfairly. The alternative is to postulate something that happened that created a nationwide shift - not just for Clinton, but for many Democrats running for Congress.
NO ONE has been more favored by the party elite than HRC -- she had the inside track to the nomination twice.
jodymarie aimee
(3,975 posts)those are just the facts. Nobody runs a 3rd time.
karynnj
(59,503 posts)I think that very few people ruled her out for losing to Obama. However, after losing the general election - with a race that many consider very flawed, it is pretty clear that she will not win the nomination. I also suspect that, unlike Bill Clinton, HRC did not like actually campaigning. I suspect she was far happier governing.
I think Gore COULD have gotten the 2004 nomination had he fought for it, but that was an exception for two reasons. The first was it was considered that he had been cheated and, probably more important, the chances of winning 2004 were not good at the point he decided not to run - Bush was above 60%.
Cha
(297,190 posts)Yeah, John Lewis, James Clyburn, and the Congressional Black Caucus are really elitists. Al Franken is so Elite.. you really should let him know that.
Hillary was FAVORED by 66 million people.. and then there was jill fucking stein.. and comey.. and the Russian hacking.. I really don't care how you try and spin this shite.
karynnj
(59,503 posts)It is true that people like those in the black caucus were for Clinton. It is also clear that starting before she resigned as Secretary it was understood that she was the person that President Obama and many others thought the best person to be the next nominee. As to 2008, the entire process was set up to make it hard for anyone not named HRC to get the nomination. The main way this was done was that 23 states all had their primary or caucus on superTuesday. This was designed to create a barrier that no one without her level of name regonition could have scaled. As talented and as charismatic as Obama was - if he had not gotten the very high profile endorsements of Ted and Caroline Kennedy -- and Kerry, Daschle and Durbin before that AND if Bill Clinton had not gone very negative -- it would not have happened.
Now, you could argue that the support for her was based on many important Democrats having long wanted her as the nominee -- and - in essence that it was what meant. She was so overwhelmingly their favorite -- and her team garnered endorsements very very early - that no one other than O'malley (likely running to be VP) and Bernie Sanders (likely to get the less than 5% that Kuchinich got) ran against her.
Jill Stein was far less a factor than Ralph Nader. As to Comey, had she given the State Department all the emails before she left - no one would ever have heard she had a private server. Her emails had been requested before she left office. She KNEW she did nothing wrong. If the SD had them, they would have given the committees and media the ones that met the criteria - redacting as needed -- and it would have been over long before 2016. This was a self inflicted wound -- made worse by her handling it poorly when it became known.
Cha
(297,190 posts)fleabiscuit
(4,542 posts)StevieM
(10,500 posts)I think he shifted many voters from Clinton to Trump.
We live in an age of party line voting. I think swing voters shifted on the Senate races, along with the presidential race.
And that's before we even get to the part where Comey held his illegitimate and dishonest press conference back in July. Or whether he should have even been investigating to begin with, rather than telling Congress to hold their own investigation if they wanted to.
The FBI is totally corrupted. And they completely reshaped the race, from beginning to end.
Barack Obama was a great president but appointing James Comey was his biggest mistake. Especially since the FBI corruption runs even deeper than Comey.
zipplewrath
(16,646 posts)The problem with your thesis is that it doesn't really explain Feingold and other races we lost. I think the analysis up thread that the Comey letters basically caused Clinton voters to stay home is more on point. It didn't shift anyone, it cause the old "enthusiasm" problem. And really, even beyond that, we've been losing for a few election cycles if one pays more attention to the state level. Comey isn't responsible for that. The party is in the worst shape its been since Reconstruction. That's pretty much the Democratic Party's fault. And I'd say that to keep following the lead of the people that have been leading the party for the last 30 or so years might not be the best plan.
StevieM
(10,500 posts)whether you agree with it or not.
We live in an age of party line voting. People who shifted from Clinton to Trump shifted in the down ballot races as well.
I absolutely blame Comey, and not just for turning a narrow win into a narrow loss. I believe he dramatically reshaped the race.
HRC has not been leading the party for 30 years. And neither have Obama, Pelosi or Schumer.
People who say they want a new generation of leaders really mean that they want more liberal leaders and a more liberal direction. Which is fine, but let's not tear down good leaders who have served us well.
zipplewrath
(16,646 posts)You can suggest it was a party line effect, I don't think the data supports that but we are talking about slim margins here so probably anything is possible. But again, that doesn't really address the larger multi-election pattern either.
And no, we haven't had any "single" leader, but we've had a group of people that have been in control of the party over that period of time, not all of them office holders, and this is where we have ended up. The "Clinton Wing" (which is way more than just the two of them) has been involved for at least 20 years (earlier depending upon when you think the original DLC started influencing things). If you don't accept that the leaders brought us here, who did?
StevieM
(10,500 posts)quickly enough. And because Obamacare was stigmatized.
That led to a bad election, which happens sometimes. But the GOP then gerrymandered the districts.
We actually made some gains in 2012, which was impressive given that the economy was taking awhile to recover due to all the toxic assets.
In 2014 we lost some more seats, in large part due to the Ebola scare.
What we need now is a midterm election with Donald Trump in the White House. That is something that we will have, no matter who our leaders are.
We still have an advantage over the Republicans in terms of changing demographics and a more liberal younger electorate.
I think you are underestimating the influence of the FBI, going all the way back to 2015. They repeatedly engaged in unfair tactics designed to assist the GOP. And I don't think their influence was marginal, I think it was overwhelming.
In spite of all the damage done by the fake email scandal we were still in line to win the White House, decisively, and to pick up seats in the House and to take back the Senate had it not been for the collapse we suffered in the final 11 days after the FBI rigged the whole thing. Their actions were totally inconsistent with liberal democracy.
I think that people who don't like HRC, or who want a new direction for the party, don't want to admit that. But the 2016 election was not about the issues--it was about an email server.
zipplewrath
(16,646 posts)We were running a lot of things through those years. We were the ones that pushed through a stimulus that was too small by half, which is a big reason the economy recovered so slowly. And we didn't do all that well at the state level in 2012, which yes is connected with gerrymandering which is a legacy of our poor performance over a couple of decades at the state ballot boxes. We passed NAFTA and DADT not to mention the DOMA and then spent the better part of 3 election cycles running against them. And really, we watched the union movement wither and did little to nothing. We appointed Comey you may remember. And then we went out and pushed the TPP.
You can go looking for excuses in other people, or we can acknowledge that we led ourselves here.
triron
(22,001 posts)GWC58
(2,678 posts)Hillary would've been a great president! She doesn't need to be running for POTUS to speak out against "Dipshit Dofuss Donnie." My reason for not wanting her to run again is because she doesn't need to go through all that shit again. That being sai if she did decide to make a run again, doubtful as it seems, I'd be all in for her.
Cha
(297,190 posts)Mahalo for putting it so well~
GWC58
(2,678 posts)Me.
(35,454 posts)Why so ready to jump her regarding future plans? How about everybody step back and see whats on her mind, first, before letting the negativity fly.
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)That's not criticism, it's my own opinion.
Pretty sure we are still allowed to have those around here.
Susan Calvin
(1,646 posts)Me.
(35,454 posts)IMHO, the very statement made is an implied criticism.
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)Cha
(297,190 posts)lapucelle
(18,252 posts)to Hillary's actual statement:
"I am ready to come out of the woods and to help shine a light on what is already happening around kitchen tables, at dinners like this, to help draw strength that will enable everybody to keep going."
Susan Calvin
(1,646 posts)As long as she doesn't run for public office above the local level again.
She'd make a great school board trustee. No irony.
lapucelle
(18,252 posts)the choices that a powerful woman should make based on the
bitter and hostile conditions that I set.
You seem to be new here. Are you aware of the "ignore" feature?
Response to lapucelle (Reply #89)
Post removed
Susan Calvin
(1,646 posts)I merely express my opinion. A cat may look at a queen...
lapucelle
(18,252 posts)as long as (conj.)
1. During the time that: I'll stay as long as you need me.
2. Since: As long as you've offered, I accept.
3. On the condition that: I will cooperate as long as I am notified on time.
"The verb predicate means to require something as a condition of something else, and we use this term mostly in connection with logic, mathematics, or rhetoric."
You did "predicate"; you just weren't aware of it. Don't you hate it when that happens?
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/as+long+as
https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/predicate
Susan Calvin
(1,646 posts)Sounds kinda monarchical to me....
BainsBane
(53,032 posts)But you don't control what Clinton says or does, anymore than I do for the politicians I dislike, or like. You get a vote, same as you did in 2016.
I myself was thinking I wouldn't support Clinton if she were to run again, but the nasty comments in this thread are going a long way to change my mind on that.
fleabiscuit
(4,542 posts)Hekate
(90,674 posts)Just my own humble opinion, since you've been sharing yours so generously, but there has been a low-level grumble here at this board pretty continuously since we came back online after the hack of Nov.8 -- and it has to do with what Hillary ought to do with the rest of her life. It ranges from manning the barricades in a violent revolution to digging a hole in her backyard and crawling into it so "we" don't ever have to see her face or hear her voice again, ever.
The people who hold these opinions are pretty sure they know what is best regarding the entire rest of Hillary's life, her own desires be damned.
The fact is, Hillary Clinton is one of the most intelligent and accomplished women on the planet, and fully capable of making up her own mind. To dismiss her as someone who should be consigned to running for a local school board is damnably insulting. But you knew that.
Blue_Roses
(12,894 posts)Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)delisen
(6,043 posts)I wouldn't presume to tell John Edwards whether or not he "should" run again--even though I am highly likely to vote for him in a primary.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)We're talking about the same John Edwards, right?
I'll gladly tell John Edwards he shouldnt run again. Good riddance.
crazycatlady
(4,492 posts)GOP incumbent. Perhaps the Democrats have their candidate?
Hekate
(90,674 posts)LaydeeBug
(10,291 posts)that was some divisive bullshit right there.
nola57
(1 post)I think we all know what you really believe. The school board is the VERY first step in one's political career. This woman was the Secretary of State of the United States. She fought for health care reform when less enlightened women thought she should "bake cookies." She was undoubtedly the most qualified candidate for the presidency (yes--we know you are a Bernie supporter but not all of us are that far left). Great snark on your part--people like you will assure President Pussy Grabber gets elected again.
gopiscrap
(23,758 posts)Susan Calvin
(1,646 posts)NBachers
(17,108 posts)samnsara
(17,622 posts)BainsBane
(53,032 posts)Democrats have never before run someone who lost a GE. I see no reason for that to change anytime soon.
okasha
(11,573 posts)Democrats may not have done it, but it has been done.
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)Timer
(71 posts)lost to Eisenhower both times. (Doesn't necessarily mean anything about 2024.)
herding cats
(19,564 posts)However, many people do need her to raise her voice in the resistance of this administration to help motivate them.
I welcome her voice to the fight against Donald Trump! We need every voice, and the more likely it is to garner media attention the better.
joshcryer
(62,270 posts)LaydeeBug
(10,291 posts)includes running again for President.
Fuck the dividers.
I would vote for Bernie. Or Hillary. And, no, I don't think ageism is relevant to this.
Bigots be damned.
We SEE this shit.
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)You see what you want to see, that much is clear.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)So you allege... lacking any objective evidence to support your statement.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)and they really should both let others have the stage.
still_one
(92,187 posts)right, and some would say an obligation to do so
jrthin
(4,835 posts)She has spent her life devoted to public service. We need to stop the irrational hate of HRC.
brer cat
(24,562 posts)both are respected and listened to by millions of people. Their participation is both needed and welcomed.
Susan Calvin
(1,646 posts)To run again, please, no.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)triron
(22,001 posts)best qualified in history to run for president no less and we got the least qualified and a sick lying racist.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)still_one
(92,187 posts)bunnies
(15,859 posts)Blue_true
(31,261 posts)and people like Hillary, Bill, Bernie need to step off the stage and act as senior advisors to help the youngins avoid pitfalls.
BainsBane
(53,032 posts)but adding her voice to the resistance.
Susan Calvin
(1,646 posts)LuvLoogie
(6,999 posts)than others in the party. Sorry, but you gotta TAKE the stage. You gotta stick your neck out there.
If somebody else wants a turn, they have to STEP UP.
THAT's leadership.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)We could use someone from the West Coast who isnt afraid to lead on issues like cannabis legalization
LuvLoogie
(6,999 posts)that would be a geater accomplishment. I think cannabis legalization has momentum in spite of Sessions' opposition to it.
I don't think Newsom could leave in the middle of a first Governor's term. So he would have to win in 2018, win re-election in 2022, then run for President in 2024 when he is 56 or 2028 when he is 60.
California is a big job, if Newsom bails after two years--after Old Man Jerry kicked ass and took names, a second time, in his 80s--I think his star will dim.
He needs to anchor California in the face of this fucked up right-wing tide. If he does that, then I'll jump on his wagon. But he ain't no Jerry Brown, not yet.
StevieM
(10,500 posts)president running for re-election that year.
Right now I am liking Elizabeth Warren and Jay Inslee.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)I agree that 2020 might be too soon for Newsom, but who knows. People said the same thing about Obama in '08.
StevieM
(10,500 posts)for president.
I think it would have been very difficult for him to run had he been elected in 2006.
I think a better analogy to Obama is Senator Kamala Harris. She was just elected. And she could very well run in 2020.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)The numbers keep going up, and it's time for our party to embrace it at the national level.
I like Kamala Harris, too. I've watched her career since she was the DA in San Francisco.
aikoaiko
(34,169 posts)MrPurple
(985 posts)Newsom would be Governor for like 6 months before announcing for President. That would be Palinesque.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Why we should cede it to the Libertarians or pretend it's a big joke.. I don't fathom it. For some reason people West of the Rockies get it. Even though legalization is trending like gangbusters on the East Coast too, East Coast pols still treat it like it's kryptonite, or a fringe issue.
Get out west you have Merkley, Blumenauer, as I said, Newsom, etc. They understand it's a major and important matter.
JI7
(89,248 posts)and support her, because he likes her that much.
but i'm pretty sure she isn't going to run for anything. she still has influence and will use it out of public office.
Susan Calvin
(1,646 posts)Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)I dont want her to run again. For that matter, I dont want Bernie to, either.
JI7
(89,248 posts)but i'm pretty sure she has no plans to .
BainsBane
(53,032 posts)Why would you want to discourage anyone opposing Trump?
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)I agree with you.
BainsBane
(53,032 posts)All hands on deck.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)should be directed at the craptastic shitshow in the oval office.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)AgadorSparticus
(7,963 posts)Stinky The Clown
(67,798 posts)HRC Derangement Syndrome
This is what nearly a half century of right wing hatred and lies have wrought.
BainsBane
(53,032 posts)At least it didn't used to be.
babylonsister
(171,059 posts)she was robbed by the Russians.
Hillary is very popular and I want to hear from her.
And I'm getting old. Do you think I should shut up, too?
Haha, never happen. Until I'm dead.
Susan Calvin
(1,646 posts)In many different ways.
Beacool
(30,247 posts)Sanders is even older and he's actively involved. Why should the Clintons, and Obamas too, not speak out. Trump is attempting to destroy the safety net of the nation. I welcome Hillary's input.
Cha
(297,190 posts)our against the dangerous idiot but Hillary and Bill.
Beacool
(30,247 posts)Too bad, Hillary won more votes than anyone in history other than Obama. Millions of people want to hear what she has to say.
Cha
(297,190 posts)lapucelle
(18,252 posts)that some people read a statement, prematurely assume its implications, and then pre-emptively slam a door in the face of the candidate who just a few months ago won the popular vote for the office of president by an overwhelming margin.
That said, I'd work for Hillary again in a heart beat.
Beacool
(30,247 posts)It still hurts so much that she's not president and that the orange pile of dung is in the WH.
m-lekktor
(3,675 posts)Cha
(297,190 posts)love Hillary.
Cha
(297,190 posts)Do you say the same about sanders?
That's actually the silliest thing I've read lately.
Stinky The Clown
(67,798 posts)3,000,000 MORE votes and a victim of armed robbery by a foreign power and their domestic stooge.
Cha
(297,190 posts)herding cats
(19,564 posts)Her voice is more than relevant here. Actually, it's an obligation of hers to rally her supporters to resist Trump by all means possible.
herding cats
(19,564 posts)Yes, their political peaks are behind them, but they still have a voice to raise in the opposition to Trump and in support of this political party. It's their right and obligation.
All of our voices need to be used in this fight of this administration, and they have two voices with literally tens of millions of devoted followers. We need them to help focus all those who respect them to fight this insanity.
Let's not get so shallow sighted here we can't keep our focus on our enemy, which is Donald Trump and the Republicans in Congress.
We need every and all voices willing to expose this administration for what it is. Personally, so long as anyone doing so wants to unify the Democratic Party and raise our voter tallies at the polls, they're my allies. These are the things we need to take our country back. Which should me our number one priority right now.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)become involved, the story becomes about them. At this point they can only distract from the resistance.
Progressive dog
(6,900 posts)and that should be a good thing for Democrats, and a bad thing for Republicans.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Progressive dog
(6,900 posts)are not the Clinton's fault. Hillary did get more votes than Trump, in spite of her opponents using Russian spying and propaganda against her.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)elehhhhna
(32,076 posts)Cha
(297,190 posts)Voices to be heard against trump.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)They can and should be doing what they think is appropriate.
sheshe2
(83,751 posts)samnsara
(17,622 posts)...I NEED her!!!!
democratisphere
(17,235 posts)a unified Democrat Party in a positive direction.
Susan Calvin
(1,646 posts)If a Clinton is leading it, it will have to be unified without me. Fortunately, I don't think that will happen.
herding cats
(19,564 posts)No matter what game of fractions you want to play with that number we need her supporters, too. It's just a basic fact of math. She has an extremely strong base of supporters who need her in the game, too.
democratisphere
(17,235 posts)and our Democracy is under deconstruction. Democrat Party is unified against drumpf BUT currently is floundering to find a true leader like Obama or HRC. Democrat Party needs a whole lot of help AND fast!
Hekate
(90,674 posts)brer cat
(24,562 posts)and I glad it still burns bright! We need her in this dark time. She is one who listens in order to understand instead of shouting at people telling them what to do.
Welcome back, Hillary. We've missed you.
Gore1FL
(21,130 posts)She can be quite a force for good outside of elective office.
Susan Calvin
(1,646 posts)CountAllVotes
(20,868 posts)I really think that election was taking a toll on her. She looks happy and healthy again! Glad to see you again Hillary!
triron
(22,001 posts)Hope she can come on Maddow.
Susan Calvin
(1,646 posts)Flatpicker
(894 posts)She lost the EC, but won the popular.
If they had agreed on going by the popular vote, you would be right.
They had plenty of time to change the rules after Gore v Bush. They didn't.
They went into the election having agreed on the rules.
Now our reality is President Trump. It sucks, but it's true.
That's what we have to deal with and all the claims of legitimacy or not blind us to dealing with what is here now.
People cry about the Russians. I get it, but it still doesn't change what we have to deal with right now. And it's not going to get investigated with R's holding all the cards, so I'm not bothering anymore.
Let's try to mitigate the damage and move onward. Debating November '16 is a waste of energy.
Too much to do at a local level before I care about another POTUS election.
Look at it this way.
You and I agree to run a 150m race.
At 150m, you beat me.
I can't claim I won because I ran 200m and you didn't.
Susan Calvin
(1,646 posts)Response to Flatpicker (Reply #80)
Tribalceltic This message was self-deleted by its author.
Flatpicker
(894 posts)I truly don't believe that scenario.
To think of a hack of that magnitude would require almost every part of the government to be asleep at the wheel.
They would have had to hack non networked systems, paper ballot counting machines and the local lil ole lady at the voter table. And done it under the eyes of multiple government agencies in country and at the border. It's a plan that would have taken 10 or so years to pull off and even that would presuppose Hillary, Donald and Bernie in this exact scenario.
That's rabbit hole thinking.
Even your analogy is wrong.
If the timer was not run for your run nothing would have counted.
If it was 10 seconds later, you would have run a 6 second race. If it was late for your opponent, by 10 secs, that would be too obvious.
To pull off something, it has to be subtile. I could almost buy that the EC could be manipulated in certain states. But not by large margins. And not obvious.
That, and you have to understand that no organization is all that bright, because people in groups can't organize a sack race w/o drama.
Susan Calvin
(1,646 posts)Yes, I do think there is rigging on all levels, planned in great depth over many years.
Gerrymandering, voter suppression, corporate/Republican voting machines, yep.
Unfortunately, they've been way more strategic and long-term than us.
Flatpicker
(894 posts)The gerrymandering and suppression.
It was the foreign hacking that I didn't buy.
Susan Calvin
(1,646 posts)but I sure don't think it was was the deciding factor.
LenaBaby61
(6,974 posts)May be rabbit hole thinking, but to this very day and still in MY mind, I don't "really" know what happened re: ruskie cyber-hacking and what was pulled off as it relates to those voting machines. tRumputin didn't need a HUGE numbers total to win the presidency--he needed enough votes to win it. It wouldn't be the first time in our nation's history that a "huge" story which looked one way on the surface and in the very beginning, yet over time became a totally different nefarious and horrific story in later years, on so many levels and concerning so many people and potential suspects, and even still to this day 50 or so years later, we really haven't nailed down the "real" story surrounding it or behind it, and probably never will. ONLY that something nefarious & horrific happened on the world's stage to a sitting president (The Kennedy Assassination).
Hekate
(90,674 posts)....which is why it has not been done before this.
ecstatic
(32,701 posts)Honestly, if I were her I'd be like "F*** all of those MFs" while eating a big tub of popcorn.
NBachers
(17,108 posts)The Sand Reckoner
(194 posts)This is not just about "political disagreement" any more. This is not about things that reasonable people could differ on. This is about a group of rich white supremacist sociopaths trying to destroy everything that makes America what it is. They do not care who suffers and who dies, as long as they get their way.
This is not the time for conciliation. This is war. Fight or die.
Cha
(297,190 posts)The Sand Reckoner
(194 posts)And who wants to, anyway? Take power away from them as soon as we can, and let them rot no matter what.
Cha
(297,190 posts)Voice being most Welcome to oppose trump along with all the others on our side.
BainsBane
(53,032 posts)You must have be thinking about several statements where Bernie said that.
Flatpicker
(894 posts)Last edited Fri Mar 17, 2017, 11:23 PM - Edit history (1)
She and Bill and Bernie take their lessons learned and groom a new generation to run for offices.
It's time for a hand off to the next generation. Maybe even get some new voters excited and into the process.
To not do so would show an inability to look long term.
Support them, groom them, give them the tools necessary to make the changes for the next 20-30 years.
Even with DT and his crew trampling the poor and ruining our country, special elections have only turned out 12-26% of the vote in 17.
If we don't fix this, we don't deserve to win any elections.
Susan Calvin
(1,646 posts)And I say this as a Bernie supporter who doesn't think he's planning on doing anything except keeping his Senate seat and speaking out.
Beacool
(30,247 posts)How different things would be if she was in the WH, instead of the lying orange clown.
Sigh...........
panader0
(25,816 posts)I'd like to see her with Bernie at an event.
She should be our POTUS.
Cha
(297,190 posts)lambchopp59
(2,809 posts)Instead we got this litany of
PinkTiger
(2,590 posts)I will always be grateful to Hillary for being a part of our government. If she ran again, I'd vote for her.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)Sorry, just joking.
Seriously, she looks great. If only she was our President now we would not be in half the mess we are in.
Susan Calvin
(1,646 posts)As long as she does not run for public office again.
Pile on if you feel the need. Just expressing the opinion of myself and acquaintances.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)lordsummerisle
(4,651 posts)lpbk2713
(42,757 posts)He deserves it.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)But the country could use a strong voice to counter Trump's.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Non-Democrats need not apply! They're worthless!
PS: Fuck Susan Sarandon.
SticksnStones
(2,108 posts)aikoaiko
(34,169 posts)After losing in 2008, she learned more about what the majority of Democrats wanted to hear and she adapted. If she can do the same thing on a national level, she could be a really effective leader and supporter of the next generation of Democrats.
Bill and Hillary still have the massive network of supporters (professional and non-professional) at their disposal.
I'm glad she took a break and is ready to get back in the fight.
burrowowl
(17,640 posts)Lotusflower70
(3,077 posts)Do what you gotta do. If she wants to be involved, go for it. If not, that's alright too. I am fine either way. She looks stress free now.
msongs
(67,405 posts)orangecrush
(19,546 posts)After seeing the nazi monster we ended up with instead.
Susan Calvin
(1,646 posts)But I would if I felt the need. I'd even criticize Bernie.... ;->
orangecrush
(19,546 posts)I just can't bring myself to do it looking at the nightmare we are in now, and I was a member of the Bernie group here.
Cha
(297,190 posts)orangecrush
(19,546 posts)herding cats
(19,564 posts)For zero reason. Imagine that?
As my dear great grandmother used to say: your slip is showing.
pat_k
(9,313 posts)I were the person behind her, I wouldn't be too thrilled. But Hillary does look great.
Lucinda
(31,170 posts)salster
(15 posts)Sh*t she can do what she pleases. Who are we to say? She won the popular vote and would likely win it again if she ran against Trump in the next election. Anything she does now, however small, is a big "I F**ckin' told you so" not only to our country but to the world. And that includes all the Never Hillary camp. Who do we have? Not even Warren anymore. There is no voice for the left however far or center, there is no one at this point. NO ONE. Not until we see elections for what they truly are, a fight against good and evil, or more realistically more good than evil or the lesser of the evils. We will not win if we do not get away from this "if only <he/she> were <fill in the blank>" bullshit.
We are going to continue to loose and I truly hope that everyone who can vote but chooses to exercise it pays dearly for what they do or do not do in the ballot box. Elections have real consequences, but unless those consequences smash us in the face, things will not change. I never thought Trump would win. I never thought Hillary should run again, but now I realize that I could be sooooo wrong.
spanone
(135,830 posts)Hekate
(90,674 posts)...to heal, but we have missed you terribly. Green suits you, btw.
Justice
(7,187 posts)About whether Hillary should run for POTUS again.
Silly infighting.
caroldansen
(725 posts)Kahuna7
(2,531 posts)betsuni
(25,482 posts)Gothmog
(145,176 posts)mcar
(42,307 posts)And you look terrific!
livetohike
(22,140 posts)LaydeeBug
(10,291 posts)Seasider
(169 posts)They should've had a live video of her sitting in an office that looks similar to the Oval office with her giving her own speech to the nation. It would've been a nice, "Hey, this is what we could've had and instead we have a raving lunatic in the White House" message to voters.
sharedvalues
(6,916 posts)Character assassination by the media.
(Caused by the rightwing media seeding stories into the mainstream.).
Remember this
LAS14
(13,783 posts)karynnj
(59,503 posts)Email being a huge dominant story. She knew the emails had already been asked for before she left the state department. She knew they would continue to ask. She also knew she had not done anything wrong on anything they wanted email on.
If she had left all the work email at the State Department, they would have complied -probably in 2013. Neither Obama or Kerry had any interest in stonewalling and both wanted the investigation closed. The emails and HRC's last testifying would have been over at least by 2014.
Having not done that, she made things worse by not completely explaining everything honestly when it became an issue. Having the story change a few times -even as supporters here claimed it was not important - is something that almost guarantees the media tries to advance the story. It also makes her look quilty to more neutral people.
sharedvalues
(6,916 posts)Rove obstructed a federal investigation by deleting emails from the Bush White House.
What you say is true, HRC should have taken the Obama route and worked hard to be 100% squeaky clean no matter how much time and effort that cost.
But don't understate the role of the Republican media machine in creating the email controversy.
karynnj
(59,503 posts)They were not running for President. My point was that this did not need to become a dominating story that unfortunately hit at HRC's weakest points.
Although Obama's guidelines and rules should have made her question setting her email up as she did and not building in any archiving method, there was no precedent on how email is handled. Rice apparently did not use any for work. Powell threw his away.
Still, even having used a private server, it likely would not have ever come out if she gave the SD the emails as she left. Even if it did, she could point to having archived them in a timely manner. She would have been the first SoS to do so.
The emails were requested before she was out of office. Did she think the Republicans would just give up? Did she think the SD could stonewall for 4 years? Would she care that that could have tarnished the reputations of both President Obama and Secretary Kerry? Not to mention it would still be her actions and emails in the news.
I suggest that anyone unhappy that I question HRC's decisions here and suggest they greatly hurt her chances look at the 2005 comments made by Bill Clinton and others in their circle criticizing the Kerry and Gore campaigns, comparing them negatively with himself. Any errors these men made were tiny compared to this.
JHan
(10,173 posts)We owe it to ourselves to at least be clear about that - it was a misreported, blown up story.
The political media needs to own up to the fact that it lost its mind last year.
karynnj
(59,503 posts)However, part of the reason was that HRC let the story drip out - story by story. As I said, she could have probably avoided it completely had she given the SD the emails when she left. Even if it still came out, the answer that the rules simply called for archiving the email, which she did -- would have cut the story completely.
Consider that the reasons ALL the emails (except a few classified) were put online was that she called for that and then others called for it to be done quickly. The only emails that would have come out would have been the ones that met the Congressional and FOIA definitions. There would have been no investigation by the IG or the FBI .. no Comey.
Although there were minor errors in the complicated stories -- the basic outline was correct. In fact, there were as many misstatements by Clinton and her circle as there were errors in the NYT reporting. Part of their difficulty might have been that the neither of the two groups involved at the beginning - the State Department that confirmed that Clinton gave them the emails in late 2014 and the Clinton team - gave the media the entire story. It was investigative journalism at work.
In addition, you can not fault either the Washington Post or the New York Times in not investigating Trump. Both had excellent front page articles on everything from his record of discriminating when he controlled NYC rentals to his failed business deals to what his taxes in the one year they had them showed -- a year when he declared an enormous loss.
What seems clear is that people knew they had a choice between two very different paths. I am still trying to absorb that nearly half of the country chose the path against nearly everything I believe in. I do not think that all who voted for Trump considered him a good man, but they were for what they thought he would do. Likewise, I think that just as Republicans voted for the digusting man Trump is - there are few who agreed with us on issues who would have voted against HRC because of the emails. Remember that if not being "trustworthy" enough was the issue -- both Feingold and Clinton lost in WI and the margin was bigger for Feingold, the conscience of the Senate and one of the cleanest guys ever.
JHan
(10,173 posts)....but the weight given to mistakes is what I look at. A blown up story was used to characterize Clinton as "lesser of the two evils" and as "flawed" as Trump. In light of that, it was only too easy for disinformation and propaganda to work. Coverage of Clinton was the very definition of insanity, despite claims of preferential treatment - of course Clinton has her allies in the press, every powerful politician does.
"Flawed" was the tell because no one is perfect, it's a nonsense observation. We're all "flawed" yet we heard that refrain over and over.
MLK was flawed, so was Ghandi, so too Kennedy and LBJ, and Lincoln. "Flawed" is a ruse to deny an individual their greatness.
And I say this as a strong reformed HRC skeptic - To get away from negative press from Hillary requires tremendous effort and actual research. Bad press about Clinton harangues and follows you when you don't want it to - you could be perusing youtube videos, standing in line in a super market and glancing at the newspaper rack and there it is , you could just be looking up politics online or watching cable news, and it's there - all the swiftboat codes "flawed", "liar", "cold", etc. I had to take the time to look at investigatory conclusions of all the "scandals", read biographies, read what those who've worked with her - friend and foe alike- had to say about her, read little known stories where she helped people, or where her advice was invaluable and take the time to read up on her voting record. I read the good and the bad. I understood finally how successfully the GOP has been in tarnishing democrats* since they lost the culture wars.
And in 2016, by equating her with Trump, the media immediately normalized his heinousness. They were seen as the same -, emails, benghazi, etc etc . Perfection was expected, while her opponent only had to not behave like a toddler for 45 minutes to get a passing grade. Of course this would affect enthusiasm, the claim was made outright that the choice was between two turds.. and many on the left were complicit in these characterizations and rhetorical blunders, harming themselves and their future in the process.
Republicans tried the same thing with Obama, calling him and Michelle "divisive" , and "polarizing". Obama had enough charm and grace to counter it. Bill Clinton, another one they tried to tar, had great flaws, but was also a great president. Obama and Clinton both exemplified political smarts, the art of compromise, thus the attacks. The tragedy is when liberals themselves partake in the tarring and feathering of their best and brightest.
Of course when our leaders make mistakes and stumble we should point it out, but what we shouldn't do is buy wholesale the attempts on the right to slander our own.
ihaveaquestion
(2,534 posts)I like her, I really do... but she is too divisive.
It's unfortunate, but she's a lightning rod and the negativity that would come her way could tarnish the issues she may talk about.
Cha
(297,190 posts)use her voice against trump.
Look who's talking about "divisive"..
ihaveaquestion
(2,534 posts)Again, I like her and I actually voted for her, but I think it's unrealistic to think she has the right message or even if she does (who knows?), that she'll be listened to by anyone but the most die hard supporters.
Cha
(297,190 posts)voters didn't vote for her? They would have gotten a great President in spite of themselves..
You're so wrong.. it's apparent you don't know what you're talking about.
We need all the voices we can get against trump now.. I don't care what the few have to say about it.
ihaveaquestion
(2,534 posts)Obviously, there are people like you who will listen and appreciate her. Others will not and will attack her. Personally, I just don't think it's helpful to have someone so divisive being front and center.
Just my opinion and, frankly, I think I've been pretty mild here - not even critical of Hillary herself. I actually like her and think she would have been a pretty good president, maybe even a great one. That you are ready to jump down my throat over this is pretty telling.
BainsBane
(53,032 posts)at the theater, a restaurant, virtually any outing.
NanceGreggs
(27,814 posts)... an awful lot of die-hard supporters last election, because she won the popular vote by almost 3,000,000 votes over Trump. So apparently her "message" was listened to and embraced by the majority of the voting populace.
As for "lots of people" voting for HRC simply as a vote against Trump, the same is true the other way - many DT votes were strictly anti-HRC votes. So that's a wash, indicative of nothing.
brer cat
(24,562 posts)Hillary is respected and trusted by countless millions of people, not only in this country, but worldwide. If we are going to defeat this maladministration, we need all of our Democrats involved and speaking out. I am relieved that she is coming back out.
kwassa
(23,340 posts)Cha
(297,190 posts)shut up people who speak out against Trump.
There's room for everyone.. jeeze
We need her voice. We need everything we can to stop this hate-filled agenda.
Cha
(297,190 posts)Hillary will be speaking out against the injustices of the trump goons.. and they want her to shut up.
Well, she'll persist.. and too bad for them.. Great for the Planet, tho.
Kath2
(3,074 posts)Yes it is!
ihaveaquestion
(2,534 posts)New progressives, whether in the Democratic party or not, need to step up. It's time for "out with the old".
fleabiscuit
(4,542 posts)Wasn't at the core her message one of "Do or do not, there is no try."?
Cha
(297,190 posts)Sunlei
(22,651 posts)Obama & Clinton will be back (in politics)in a couple more months, maybe much longer.
With this Russia 'thing' going on, it would be unwise for anyone connected to politics/Russia/election hacking/republican collusion with foreign govs. to engage directly at this time. They're both very wise people.
Good to see them both engaging and helping in the public sector. Like they said they would. We need them a lot. I don't know how she finds the strength of character after this election disappointment. This rape of our democracy. If I was she, I don't think I'd ever 'come out of the woods' Hillary.
Cha
(297,190 posts)oasis
(49,381 posts)you can". Hillary continues to guided by what she was taught early on in the Methodist Church.
She's eager to do whatever is necessary to make sure everything doesn't come completely apart.
Hillary deserves our respect for her willingness to pitch in and help.
Cha
(297,190 posts)Cha
(297,190 posts)saying that if he didn't strongly believe it..
Mahalo!
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)excellent.
lunatica
(53,410 posts)We have plenty of need of her.