Sanders: I don't consider myself a Democrat

[RandySF]

Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) said Tuesday night that he still does not consider himself a Democrat, despite taking part in a Democratic National Committee unity tour with the party's new chair Tom Perez.

"No, I'm an Independent," Sanders said when asked by MSNBC's Chris Hayes whether he now identifies as a Democrat.

"If the Democratic Party is going to succeed - and I want to see it succeed - it's gonna have to open its door to Independents," he continued. "There are probably more Independents in this country than Democrats or Republicans. It's got to open its doors to working people and to young people, create a grassroots party. That's what we need."

Sanders had been dogged by questions about his party affiliation throughout the presidential primary. Last April, his campaign manager, Jeff Weaver, told Bloomberg that Sanders would remain a Democrat after the election.

Sitting alongside Perez during a joint interview, Sanders said that he wants the Democratic Party to focus on key issues for progressives, such as the decline of the middle class, the "need" to take on wealthy interests and unite around "Medicare for all."

When asked whether the party supports the idea of "Medicare for all," Perez argued that the party believes "healthcare is a right, not a privilege."


http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/sanders-i-dont-consider-myself-a-democrat/ar-BBA1muj?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=mailsignout

[KittyWampus]

1. Unfortunately, because of what happened in the primary/general Perez, Schumer

and the Democratic party are stuck having to continually feature Sanders and put up with him.

They have to lessen all opportunities for Republicans and Russians and 4chan trolls to use Sanders as a wedge.

It's a shame that Sanders can't manage to be more accommodating to a party that is giving him so much room.

I didn't listen to the segment with Perez/Sanders. I watched it with sound off.

Sanders leaned away from Perez the whole time.

Go back, look and see for yourself.

[JHan]

10. one of the last bit of criticisms he dropped got traction on my fb feed.

soundbytes of his criticisms of the "Liberal elite" and the rest of it... "democratic party doesn't know what it stands" for .. etc .etc. "The DNC is the problem" , feeding into a relitigation of not only the primaries but the DNC chair race. etc etc etc. All completely unnecessary but useful for our opponents.

[Cha]

15. I know.. complain complain complain about nothing.. and

then says he wants the Dem party to do well.

[Cha]

82. The m$m/hayes always pushes that crap..

Do men have to shave now?

[disillusioned73]

160. "Perez promoting Bernie"??

I think you got something twisted there..

Bernie doesn't need Perez.. or you

[R B Garr]

35. +1000, they have to follow him for damage control.

Divisive and damaging.

[Cha]

94. I can't wait until a strong Democrat emerges as

a real Uniter of people against trump.

I cannot stand the freaking divisiveness.

[tallahasseedem]

171. I'm done with posers

using our funds for their agenda.

[R B Garr]

191. Agreed! It is offensive and counter-productive how he is still splintering Democrats

just to fit his own limited narrative.

[Cha]

202. So limited.. so divisive and counter productive..

as you say, R B!

[kstewart33]

133. No help with the Thompson or Ossoff race, but a lot of criticism.

Talk is cheap. When Bernie starts actively helping to get some Democratic victories, then it may be time to take him seriously.

Until then, it's just a bunch of hot air.

[ProudLib72]

2. Thanks Sanders

for that important lesson in semantics.

[LexVegas]

3. I dont consider him a Democrat either. nt

[ATL Ebony]

17. Same here

[uponit7771]

21. +1

[Tarheel_Dem]

25. Neither did +4 million of us.

[radius777]

139. Exactly, he was destroyed in Dem areas all across the country.

Hillary stomped him in almost all metropolitan/diverse areas across the country, which is the modern-day base (Dems draw most of their votes from such areas) of the Dem party.

Sanders only hung around due to the caucuses in white/rural states (which are highly undemocratic, and dominated by alt-left activist types), and due to the media, which hates Hillary and wanted to prop Sanders up.

[tallahasseedem]

172. +1,000,000

[Maven]

109. Same. nt

[yardwork]

129. I take him at his word. Not a Democrat.

[calimary]

203. Nor do I. If he were or wanted to be, I'd expect him to say so.

I'm sorry. This still bothers me. A lot.

I read that Hillary's campaign turned all her contacts lists over to the DNC. Last I'd heard, Bernie's campaign had not. Anybody know? It'd be nice if he shared.

[Txbluedog]

4. This

He never was and never will be a democrat

[Expecting Rain]

5. He isn't a Democrat

and the Democratic party shouldn't be taking him out on a road show IMO.

We have a future to build. And angry populism is the wrong path.

Basta.

[KittyWampus]

7. They have to bring Bernie along. He's a potential wedge for Republicans & Putin...

So he's got be brought along and put up with.

That's politics.

[Me.]

9. Put Up With Is Right

[JCanete]

72. no it is not the wrong path. Are you kidding me? What exactly is the right path? Promising to

work with the big money to do the right thing? Where do you think the will of politicians to act against big money comes from? It comes from the public demanding it. They can't possibly do it without the support/pressure from the populace.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

88. Pardon the British cartoon...

But your second line reminds me of this cartoon featuring UK Labour "leader" Jeremy Corbyn. Note the "Centrist" in the stocks.

[JHan]

148. wow

[QC]

152. Is that from The Torygraph? n/t

[QC]

193. Ah, it's from a different right wing rag, The Spectator.

Funny how much wingnuttery ends up here lately.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

194. Is it wrong?

[QC]

197. I think so, but I'm not The Spectator's intended audience. n/t

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

198. Lets revisit this after the election

I think Corbyn standing defiantly in the face of Labour's collapse into irrelevance is rather apt.

[QC]

199. Of course you do. n/t

[radius777]

6. if there are so many independents why doesn't he

or someone else form an independent party that can "easily" beat the Repubs or Dems?

We do need a multi-party system, to help represent more views.

But I believe it has been proven (by Nate Silver and others) that there really are very few true independents, most of whom actually lean right and vote Repub or left and vote Dem, when push come to shove.

[seaglass]

105. Yes, that has been confirmed that only 10% of "independent" voters are politically unaligned.

In MA, there are more voters registered unenrolled than there are registered as Dems or Repubs. The majority of unenrolled vote along party lines.

[Hortensis]

106. Exactly. Sanders claims to represent people he does not.

"Independent" is a mixed group that overwhelmingly voted Rep or Dem, as expected. He has had some success on both sides, among the party aligned and "independents," by appealing to populist anti-establishment resentments.

Which apparently explains why some conservatives we know, whom we just assumed voted Rump, surprisingly turn out to be Sanders supporters. The number is too small to guess if most supported Sanders all along or belatedly dumped Rump, but it does seem likely they're invoking Sanders' name now as a way of dissociating themselves from what the Republicans are up to.

He and his followers really should form the great new party they want. Then they can leave behind in their dust the corrupt, hostile Democrats who won't let non-Democrats run for president on their ticket or partner with them to achieve supposedly common goals.

[JHan]

158. He needs to keep saying that..

I fear the strategy employed is more cynical than I could imagine. Keep the Democratic party on tenterhooks and you have a party that is not all that confident. He has to keep contrasting himself against the democratic party to keep the division going because the division is his leverage. He can get away with saying anything. If there are dems who don't support his amendments he can use that as a weapon against them.

[radius777]

164. excellent point. Sanders is Ron Paul of the left

in this sense, someone whose cult status (which is amongst similar demographics) depends upon appearing outside of the party establishment, even as he attempts to use it for his own ends.

[JHan]

166. that's a great way of putting it..

"Ron Paul of the Left".

Sanders has sway over millennials but there are also millennials like myself aiming to make ourselves pragmatic voters. We've seen progress squandered because of purity tests. We're seeing the effects of the election and the effects of Trump destroying the establishment that existed under Obama.

This is like a replay of the late 60's and 70's which gave Nixon and after a respite of the Carter years , Reagan. That is sobering enough for me.

If the purists want to take the left, they can keep it, if they want to circle jerk and get high on their sanctimoniousness, fine. I just hope the Democratic nominee in 2020 doesn't get hamstrung by the BS.

[tallahasseedem]

173. Because they won't be able to raise the funds necessary...

so they'll use ours while simultaneously bashing our donors.

[Me.]

8. Once & For All

Please take him at his word.

As for the door being open, it has always been open and anyone can join any time.

[brer cat]

12. ++++ nt

[demosincebirth]

37. Our door has always been open for anyone who believes in the core principles of our party,

[Cha]

38. Exactly, demosincebirth.

[fun n serious]

11. I agree with this tweet

Link to tweet

[Cha]

14. Yeah.. it's sickening.

[sheshe2]

19. +infinity

[StevieM]

22. Imagine if she allowed her supporters to cultivate a narrative that she only lost because the system

was somehow rigged against her.

Imagine if the Republicans picked up that mantra and started claiming that the DNC rigged the primaries to cheat her.

[R B Garr]

34. This is exactly right. There's a reason a con man like

Trump liked what he heard from those narratives.

[Quixote1818]

27. If Elizabeth Warren had lost by 4 million votes and said this I would have been 100% behind her

Not sure anyone "demanded" anything? Suggested is a better word. The country was just getting to know Sanders and today he is the most popular politician in the country. Sometimes it takes years for politicians and what they are about to reach people. Hillary didn't win the first try either. Had Elizabeth Warren run against Hillary I would have backed Warren 10000% because she is more in line with my thinking as is Sanders.

[SticksnStones]

100. Why do you suppose the right is silent on Sanders?

Why doesn't 45 have a mean nickname for Sanders?

Why isn't the National Enquirer or some other right wing rag running exposes on Sanders like they do for other prominent politicians they oppose?

Why doesn't Fox run special reports devaluing Sanders?

Why doesn't Sanders ever get subjected to the political smear gauntlet from the right ?

Think any of that factors in to his "most popular politician" status?

[fun n serious]

116. Any other Most popular politician would get totally smeared.

Things that make you go hmmmm...

[SticksnStones]

120. Sanders speaking engagements serve the republican objective

Of weakening the Democratic Party.

That's undeniable.

[HughBeaumont]

119. He gets smeared enough by Libertarian Party types and AnCaps.

But no one gives a fuck about right wing extremists pushing failed procedure.

[SticksnStones]

121. The fact that 45 hasn't given him a nickname speaks volumes, I believe

[NastyRiffraff]

169. He hasn't insulted him either

as he CONTINUES to insult Barak Obama and Hillary Clinton. Like all bullies, Dump insults people he fears, only online not to the face. Bernie? Meh.

[Hortensis]

128. Quixote, Warren and Sanders are of VERY different

ideologies. They intersect in fighting income inequality, but even then they would take very different approaches. Their ideas of the role of capitalism and an appropriate balance of power for corporations are also very different. She is far more aware of and sympathetic to the needs of business than he is.

She is, in fact, not only one of the imagined corrupt Democratic colleagues he's been railing against for decades but has one of the most conservative voting records in the Democratic senate caucus. His voting record puts him on the left margin of the caucus, but his description of himself is that he is significantly farther left than his voting record indicates.

He also arranged for the transfer of NH's radioactive waste to the "back yards" of people in TX and ruthlessly used and betrayed the Democratic Party in 2016. Warren has nothing like either on her record; she busted her butt to put Democrats in office. Those are not nothings. They're huge indicators. They are very different people.

“For capitalism to work, we all need one another.” E. Warren

[radius777]

156. yes, Warren is progressive-left Dem and Sanders is alt-left Indy,

and those are very different things. The alt-left is economically hard left and socially libertarian or conservative, and many are sympathetic to the alt-right.

The Dem party on balance has always been a center-left party with room for a progressive left wing, but one that understands (like FDR did) that the Dem party isn't a Marxist party, but a Keynesian one that seeks to "save capitalism from itself", i.e. strike a balance between business and the middle/working classes who depend (jobs, products, services, etc) on it.

The Clintons/Obamas never tried to primary out left-wingers.

Clintonism's core belief, in it's desire to build a national party (which fell apart during the 70's and 80's) was one should run however the area would support, and that it is better to have moderate Dems elected in purple or red areas than far-right Repubs.

[Cha]

30. The Democratic Party got 3 Million more Votes than asshole..

We are the ones calling the shots.. I don't care how many times he calls us losers.. and tries to tear us apart.

Tom Perez and Keith Ellison are leading the DNC and everyone knows the Door is OPEN.. we let BS in, didn't we?

[JCanete]

79. it is a total bullshit tweet. What demands? He still has a voice that is being listened to because

people in our party agree with that message. He can't hold a gun to the party's head, unless party members are the gun. He has no influence save for his resonance with what many of us believe in. He has national popularity and that is a valuable thing when promoting liberal ideals, which are democratic.

This tweet's spin of the reality is just bitter noise.

[Hortensis]

110. Imagine her complaining that the opponent stole

the election, filing and/or only threatening dozens of phony lawsuits to "prove" it (then quietly dropping them once the cameras moved on). Imagine that these behaviors probably cost the Democrats both the presidency and Senate.

Imagine the woman trying to persuade superdelegates to set aside ALL Democratic votes for her opponent, not just the extra 4M, to effectively appoint her the party nominee?

THEN imagine her demanding the party turn itself over to her leadership. She really would seem every bit as dishonest and untrustworthy as some people love to claim. More than a bit nutty too.

[treestar]

147. Exactly

If he is not a Democrat, why is he always talking about how the Democratic party should run things? Why did he take advantage of its structure to run for President? Why did his followers demand that the structure bend to make it easier for him to win? Just insane.

[tallahasseedem]

174. Misogyny is real my friends...

but we all knew that amirite ladies?

[Cha]

13. The Door is OPEN, BS. Guess he's not paying attention

to what Tom Perez and Keith Ellison are doing.. even though he's sitting right beside Tom. Didn't we OPEN our Door to him.. an INDEPENDENT to Run as a DEMOCRAT in our DEMOCRATIC PARTY ?

Oh and sanders.. the racist fucking trump voters can FO

Analysis: Racism motivated Trump voters more than authoritarianism or income inequality

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10028940161

[trueblue2007]

18. i agree. he didn't help Hillary. That is one reason she lost the election.

[StevieM]

24. To be fair to Bernie, who I am not exactly happy with at the moment, the FBI and James Comey were

the main reason she lost.

More than every other factor put together IMO.

Even the Russian hacking, damaging though it was, pales in comparison to what Comey did, going all the way back to 2015.

This was the FBI's election, from start to finish.

[Cha]

26. There were all kinds of reasons but I know exactly

what trueblue means.

And, being "Fair" to someone helps when they've been "Fair" themselves. Even though I think she was being quite fair.

[StevieM]

28. It wasn't my intention to suggest that Trueblue wasn't being fair.

My point was that what Comey did in this election was historic.

I believe it will make the history books in classrooms around the world for centuries to come.

[trueblue2007]

40. Comey slaughterd Hillery. It was horrible. I call his actions traitorous.

And the media gave Donald Rump $$116484949.99 free publicity.

those idiot "moderators" let Trump treat Hillary like crap during the debates. THEY SHOULD NOT HAVE LET HIM INTERRUPT HER.
THEY should have removed him from the debates. MEDIA and moderators let Rump get away with all his lies. THEY should have called him on his lies but they were too afraid of him.

[athena]

187. Exactly. How is allowing an Independent to run in the Democratic primary

not "opening doors to Independents"?

This is maddening. Democrats allowed Bernie to take over their party, and this is how he thanks them.

[Cha]

200. Yeah, he acts like that didn't happen.. he has

some damn ..

[Demit]

16. I think he's making us look like fools.

The Democratic party DID open its door to an Independent. Who now is very publicly distancing himself from it.

This is a very garbled message being sent by this so-called unity tour. I don't see Bernie Sanders contributing to any kind of unity here. He's basically telling his followers to stay Independent.

I think he's having a high old time, promoting HIS message, making us look like fools.

[trueblue2007]

20. i think Sanders is telling people to STAY AWAY FROM DEMOCRATS. Democrats aren't good enough.

Well crap. My first vote was for wonderful JIMMY CARTER. One of the best men in our party. Dems are good enough.

[floppyboo]

32. You can't be made to look like a fool

Feeling foolish implies some kind of recognition of guilt or disingenuousness.

Is Sanders distancing himself from the core principles of the Democratic Party? Many would say no.

He is an independent Senator. His state voted for him as an Independent. What's he supposed to do about that?

And last I checked, Schumer gave him the outreach job, so maybe redirect your anger.

[Demit]

45. I'll keep my anger focused on the right object, thanks.

Bernie Sanders is playing us for fools.

The Democratic party asks him to do outreach, in the interests of unity, and he uses the platform to promote himself.

A year ago he was promising he'd be a Democrat for life. He didn't seem to care what his state thought then. They didn't care then, either. They voted for him 86% in the primary—as a Democrat. So that's a flimsy argument.

I think he's harming the party, and his way of stressing that he is NOT a Democrat (this year) makes it look deliberate. It's getting harder & harder to see where his vaunted integrity lies.

[lapucelle]

204. Of course you can be made to look like a fool.

I watched the media do it to Al Gore in 2000.

And feeling foolish does not imply consciousness of guilt (guilt for what?) or cynical insincerity.

Last I checked, disingenuity was the preferred noun form of a word which is advisedly best used employed in its adjective form.

[Cha]

36. No, it's not us who look like the fool.. We're Strong Democrats

who are Fighting Back.. not "feeble" and "can't fight back" like BS tried to paint us on Rachel's Show.

[floppyboo]

42. Oh dear. I've upset you.

Fighting back is good! Staying with a failed oligarchic system is bad. Here is Jimmy Carter on the subject.

[Cha]

43. Who are you?

[Demit]

49. Well that's fine, Cha, but it's Sanders who's getting the media attention.

He's got the microphone, and he's using it to foment disunity. Now, not only do we have to fight Republicans, we have to undo the "weak Democrats" meme that our supposed ally is spreading.

I think the Democrats should cut Bernie Sanders loose asap. He's not bringing Independents through the door. He's telling them to stay outside, and using himself as a role model. He's hurting us.

[Cha]

51. I know, Demit.. the m$m needs the sniping

about the Democratic Party.. it helps their bottom line.. and the gop.

he says he wants the Dems to succeed but then he snipes.. so I know exactly what you mean.

I cut him loose a long time ago.. around 2012

[JCanete]

74. I don't feel like a fool. As a democrat, these are things I think need to be said. As a democrat,

count me among Democrats who ACTUALLY welcomed him to run within the party, with open arms, not all the nonsense proclamations to that fact, in order to give exposure to ideas that I think are paramount. I don't need him to promise fidelity to the D to appreciate or support his efforts. These are Democratic ideals after all...we just keep being told that its too dangerous to actually run on many of them. We HAVE to water them down so that the money doesn't put a big ass target on our heads....as if it doesn't already.

[bluecollar2]

93. well stated...n/t

[SticksnStones]

101. Gotta agree, Demit

Sanders on a unity tour putting down the Democratic Party makes us look foolish.

I picture repubs clasping their greasy hands in delight each time they hear him disparage the Democratic Party.

I view Sanders with a wary lense ~

[sheshe2]

23. We got that loud and clear Bernie.

[C Moon]

29. ...

[Chevy]

31. Great I'm not a populist so now what? N/T

[Gravitycollapse]

39. They inherited the money they used to buy the house.

O’Meara Sanders inherited a vacation home in Maine that they could not use because it was too far away. So they sold it and used the money to buy the other house that was closer.

Not exactly what I would consider "elitist." But I guess that doesn't fit your narrative.

[R B Garr]

44. That elitist comment might have been because of Sanders'

smear about "liberal elitists".

[Gravitycollapse]

46. It's only a smear if it's untrue.

[Cha]

47. It's a smear.. sarandon is the fucking "elitist"

Yeah, and there will always be LYING A$$ Privilege ELITE..

Who sucker in the LOW INFORMATION voter with LIES like these..

"The prominent Sanders backer also predicted that a Hillary Clinton indictment was "inevitable"

Susan Sarandon: Hillary Clinton more dangerous than Donald Trump

http://www.salon.com/2016/06/03/susan_sarandon_hillary_clinton_more_dangerous_than_donald_trump/

poor ssarandon "had to change her phone number.." while the rest of the country that isn't so well off have to worry about this among other trumpshite..

Link to tweet

[Gravitycollapse]

50. Yes, there will always be privileged elite. They shouldn't lead political parties.

They shouldn't have any more political power than the average American. The problem is that they basically control the flow of resources for political campaigns.

Are you honestly going to sit here and deny that there are wealthy liberal "elites" who possess disproportionate control over the aim of the Democratic party?

Sanders speaks the truth. Ignore him at your own peril.

[fun n serious]

52. What if that wealth elite has a long more policy wonk than anyone else?

What if that wealthy elite knows how to get policy passed and done? Ignore the wonky policy detail at your own peril. Bernie had plenty resources but when he was asked how he was going to get the things he talked about done he could not answer passed saying look outside the window at the millions of people.

[Gravitycollapse]

56. I'm not speaking about the efficacy of Sanders' proposed policies.

Bernie Sanders did not have the support of the political establishment. It's frankly a miracle he made it as far as he did and shows that he spoke truth to something that was not fully addressed by the Democratic party.

[fun n serious]

83. Oh. Well I am as left as you can get without being a complete socialist

and I am a Hillary supporter. I demand my candidate have detailed policy worked out. What did Bernie speak truth of? Economics? The economy is not doing as bad as people want you to believe. Hillary spoke about that but she focused her ideas on getting people trained for TECH jobs. IMO that is the smartest and ONLY way to go.

[radius777]

131. of course he did, the GOP establishment,

who needed him to divide Dems.

as far as elites controlling parties. all political organizations, big and small alike, have a hierarchy and elites that have more power. that is simply the nature of human social groups.

ultimately voters make the decision on who to elect.

especially in the age of the internet, where information can easily be obtained about issues and candidates.

[Cha]

53. I ignore the hell out of him insulting my Democratic Party

with "feeble" "can't fight back" "elitist".. It's not true. he's a divider.

I pay attention to those who are really trying to unify against the fascistrump

[Gravitycollapse]

54. It's not YOUR party. It's a party to which many belong.

You are but one member out of millions.

We don't all need to toe the exact same political line to unite against our newly appointed fascist President.

Hillary Clinton ran a decent campaign. However, her campaign failed to fully account for the the economically disaffected working class in really vital communities. The Democratic party was historically the party of the working class. It has not fully lived up to that ideal in recent years. I'm not saying that's what cost her the election, but it was certainly a contributor.

We can debate the usefulness of the populism that brought Bernie Sanders into the spotlight. But his rise reflects a political discontent that was not fully addressed by Democrats.

[Cha]

55. It's my party and everyone else's who is in it.

[Gravitycollapse]

57. A lot of Democrats, myself included, voted for Sanders in the primaries.

As with Sanders, ignore us at your own peril.

[Cha]

58. Yeah, your threats aren't really working on me.

[Gravitycollapse]

59. It's a warning, not a threat.

In many ways, the election loss was a self-inflicted wound. Sanders supporters called for a more progressive platform. The Democratic Party did not adequately address those concerns. Again, I'm not saying that's THE reason why Clinton lost (ie. the electoral college, Russian interference, sexism, Republican smears, etc.). But it certainly didn't help.

[fun n serious]

86. You mean he used perceived anger?

The numbers just do not add up to a huge economically disaffected working class. Coal is not coming back and we lack workers in the Tech field. That is what Hillary said and that is still true.

[Gravitycollapse]

90. Their small stature was made up in their strategic importance.

I'm not saying that the disaffected working class is gigantic. But they were strategically important to the outcome of the election.

[fun n serious]

95. In the rust belt

Hillary spoke of retraining for futuristic tech jobs. If that does not happen they can never be helped. They ( the people in those areas) did not want to hear the truth. I don't remember Bernie having an economic plan other than bashing NAFTA. If he did have a good job plan, I would like to hear it. I have not.

[tallahasseedem]

175. +1

and a few more than that.

Spot on and let's keep up the good fight!

[Cha]

177. Mahalo, tallahasseedem!

[tallahasseedem]

178. Love ya Cha...

I have been following your posts for a VERY long time!

[Cha]

179. Love you back!

[R B Garr]

189. Then you shouldn't get defensive when people call him elite.

By his own dismissive standards, he is elite.

In actuality, that is a RW talking point about liberals, straight out of Limbaugh land. He keeps feeding right into their attacks on liberals and Democrats. Destructive and divisive.

[Cha]

48. BS called our whole Democratic Party "elitist".. it's a rw smear on the

the Democratic Party.. when he's the one who has the support of elitist ssarandon who told lies about Hillary..

Yeah, and there will always be LYING A$$ Privilege ELITE..

Who sucker in the LOW INFORMATION voter with LIES like these..

"The prominent Sanders backer also predicted that a Hillary Clinton indictment was "inevitable"

Susan Sarandon: Hillary Clinton more dangerous than Donald Trump

http://www.salon.com/2016/06/03/susan_sarandon_hillary_clinton_more_dangerous_than_donald_trump/

poor ssarandon "had to change her phone number.." while the rest of the country that isn't so well off have to worry about this among other trumpshite..

Link to tweet

[melman]

63. No he didn't

[Cha]

64. Yes BS did and sarandon is the fucking elitist.

[R B Garr]

190. Exactly, Cha, and in his most recent diatribe against Democrats, he names specific coastal

cities as being liberal elitists, when in actuality it just looks like sour grapes on his part because the cities he named went for Clinton, big time. This is just more divisive rhetoric on his part.

[Cha]

201. So Divisive.. wth is he trying to do?

[seaglass]

107. 150K was from the inheritance. The rest was Sanders book advance and savings. Jane

admitted this after it was discovered that her inheritance didn't pay for it.

https://vtdigger.org/2016/08/18/sanders-lake-home-purchase-leaves-questions-unanswered/

[Cha]

162. Ooops! Thaniks for shining the Light on that,

seaglass

UPDATED: Sanders lake home purchase leaves questions unanswered

The wife of U.S. Sen. Bernie Sanders was unwilling Wednesday to explain how the couple purchased a Vermont lakeside home using proceeds from a Maine property. The two parcels have roughly the same value. However, she had been a part-owner of the one in Maine.

https://vtdigger.org/2016/08/18/sanders-lake-home-purchase-leaves-questions-unanswered/

[tallahasseedem]

180. Doncha love the golden parachute she received

after putting that college into the ground?

Wonder what someone would have said if Hillary did that?

[ProudLib72]

41. There are so many independents it's incredible!

And that's why I ran on a Democrat ticket.

Why? Why? Why? Either he's for the Democrat party and can stop his foolishness, or he can leave the Democrat party alone.

[Cha]

62. Excellent point, ProudLib!

[JCanete]

67. Its not up to him what the Democratic party members do. It's always been bullshit that he is

somehow tampering with the party or taking it over. If he has influence here, its because of a part of the Democratic party's base. Give it a rest.

[JTFrog]

60. Bye Felicia. nt

[Cha]

61. I had to look that up.. perfect.

[JCanete]

69. No, many of us being perfectly happy to give him the gas. That's the way it worked. We know

what he stands for and has stood for. We know what issues we think NEED to be addressed. He had support among democrats. There are plenty here that don't like him, and throughout leadership that probably find him an irritation, but I'm not sure who had illusions about where Sanders stands in respect to the party. We wanted his message to resonate so that the party would acknowledge its support and move left to respond to that voter base.

Any other story is just far off the mark. Nobody has been duped, and even here, Sanders says he wants the Democratic party to succeed. I'm not sure what the issue is.

[JCanete]

66. So Sanders considers himself an independent, and wants the Democratic party to succeed. Is there a

story here worth any negativity?

[retrowire]

117. People can't get past the primaries... Nt

[QC]

168. Bingo. n/t

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

68. I never want to hear from this man again.

And I never want to see another interloper hijack the primaries again.

[Gravitycollapse]

70. I find your arrogance remarkable.

Interloper? It's a primary contest where candidates compete to get the most support from party voters. If you don't want a competition, we can go back to the old system where party leaders pick the candidate. I don't think that will be very popular.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

71. emphasis on "party voters"

This guy who's shtick since he ran for Congress is that he isn't a Democrat!

He doesn't have his own rug to piss on so he pissed on ours.

[Gravitycollapse]

73. Millions of Democrats voted for him.

If you want to make this a purity test, be my guest. But you're only contributing to alienation of the Democratic platform from the interests of progressive Americans. They don't give a shit if you poo poo them as not being "real" Democrats.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

75. I really don't care about progressives anymore

They're fickle, high-maintenance and unreliable.

[JCanete]

76. Are you making the claim that the Democratic party is not progressive?

people keep telling me that the centrist wing of the party is as progressive as it has ever been, to which, in part, I agree with, given the eventual tac to the left of the DNC and Clinton in the GE.

Well if our party isn't run by progressives, who s it run by?

[Gravitycollapse]

78. Democrats will never win another election without progressives.

As I've said repeatedly, ignore us at your own peril.

People here don't seem to understand how a coalition works. Coalition building requires that different factions with similar interest work together. Its about cooperation, not acquiescence. The moment you demand exacting allegiance, the coalition will fail.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

81. Groovy, help Jill Stein break two million votes in 2020.

Show us who's boss.

Coalition building and hijacking aren't synonyms.

[Gravitycollapse]

84. I will support whoever is the most progressive candidate in the Democratic primaries.

And I will vote for whoever wins the primaries because I actually care about the future of the Democratic party and see it as a viable political platform. That viability is contingent on the platform continuing to work towards a more progressive philosophy.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

85. The 2016 election strongly suggests a "more progressive philosophy"

Isn't what the America of the electoral college is looking for.

I merely hold the radical preference that those who run in Democratic primaries actually be Democrats.

[Gravitycollapse]

87. Bernie Sanders' voting record makes him more of a Democrat than most (D)s.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2016/feb/23/bernie-sanders-democrat/

He voted with the party 95% of the time vs. 80% for congressional Democrats.

BTW, forecasts showed Sanders performing better than Clinton against Trump. As it seems, Americans did want a more progressive Democratic party.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

89. That is fantasy

Hillary Clinton lost the election because she wasn't nationally competitive, Bernie Sanders was even less so. Carlos Danger probably could have won New York and California against Trump.

[Gravitycollapse]

92. Not fantasy.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_sanders-5565.html#polls

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_clinton-5491.html#polls

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

97. Clinton also led Trump by a large margin most of June.

What is your point? This past election was not the pollsters finest hour.

I feel embarrassed for the man just contemplating the negative campaign the Republicans would have run against him.

[standingtall]

99. Would not take long at all for repukes to destroy

His advantage in the polls. The rape fantasy novel coupled with him voting against the amber alert alone would've been enough for republicans to turn him into a pedophile and he would've lost in a landslide.

[Chevy]

205. That GOP dossier according to Repub insiders

is quite nasty.

[BainsBane]

142. Is your position that "millions" won't vote Democratic

because a random citizen dares to question Bernie? That is what prompts disenchantment with the party, in your opinion, not Sanders continual statements decrying it?

Why is your political inclusion in the Democratic Party contingent on citizens remaining silent?
I don't suppose it would be possible to focus on issues rather than one man's career? No. Of course not. If it were, we'd see some mobilization around issues coming out of the Sanders ranks, and we have seen absolutely none. The sole focus continues to be Bernie himself. So much so that you assume the other poster can't be a "progressive" because he doesn't like Bernie. At some point, people are going to have to decide they care about something other than enforcing fealty toward a septuagenarian.

[jrthin]

185. The cult of personality will eventually kill us all. n/t

[Cha]

80. BS said the Democratic Party needed to be Open

to Independents.. but he forgot about himself.. they let him in after years of bashing.

From now on the all inclusive Democratic Party needs to have only Dems run who actually support our Democratic Party.

Not insult it every time a mic is in his face.

[Demsrule86]

91. This is an unfortunate remark. Until Democrats vote party consistently, we won't win.

Thus, the GOP will be further enabled and permitted to destroy social security, cause wars and all the other evil crap they do while we fight among ourselves and worry about 'independents'. Perez needs to stop the kind of stuff that went on last night in that interview. It is divisive and makes us look weak...someone in the party is going to have to stand up to Sen. Sanders. We are Democrats. Independents can join if they choose or not. We need party loyalty; the Republicans have party loyalty...this is why Trump won and why we lost. And keep in mind, we barely lost...with the entire election rigged against us...from a divisive primary, to Comey and with Russian interference. a couple of Democratic victories will put things in perspective.

[RandiFan1290]

96. It's OK, Bernie!

Your attackers need to get over their purity purge.

[Cha]

98. No shite.. no Democratic Senator would go around

insulting the Democratic Party with attacks of "feeble" "can't fight back" and the ".. the party of the elite".

[tallahasseedem]

176. Maybe he should look in the mirror...

there are plenty of skeletons in the closet with him and wifey.

I've listened to his message several times. Never has there been documentation released backing up his claims on how he plans to implement (realistically) these policies. Actual governing is hard, naming libraries is easier.

[ms liberty]

102. Oh, look. It's a bash Bernie and feel better about yourself thread...

No thanks. I wonder how many replies before someone referenced JPR...well, no actually I don't. It's almost inevitable, and goes hand in hand with the Bernie bashing.

[Cha]

103. Did it make BS "feel good" when he bashed the Democratic Party with insults

of "feeble" "can't fight back" on Rachel's show and threw this accusation out.. "..the Democratic Party of liberal elites.." in Boston with Sen Warren?..

When ssarandon is the fucking liberal Elitist..

Who suckered the LOW INFORMATION voters with LIES like these..

"The prominent Sanders backer also predicted that a Hillary Clinton indictment was "inevitable"

Susan Sarandon: Hillary Clinton more dangerous than Donald Trump

http://www.salon.com/2016/06/03/susan_sarandon_hillary_clinton_more_dangerous_than_donald_trump/

poor ssarandon "had to change her phone number.." while the rest of the country that isn't so well off have to worry about this among other trumpshite..

Link to tweet

[Maven]

115. The 'bashing' here is courtesy of Bernie

And we're tired of it.

[BainsBane]

126. Quoting Bernie

is bashing him.

[JHan]

157. discussing the words he used, and the implications , are also bashing. Incredible eh?

illiberalism from liberals. stunning.

[BainsBane]

161. It would be stunning

If I hadn't seen is a hundred times before. At least with the new and positive changes to the jury system, you don't face a hide for quoting him.

[QC]

135. Ever notice that whenever things are going especially badly for Trump,

the division around here gets turned up to 11?

[DefenseLawyer]

104. For the people that still think of the Democratic Party as a civic club

that is no different than the Rotary or Kiwanis Club, where membership and hierarchy are more important than policy positions or even actual accomplishments in government, this is a big deal. Quick, we better form a committee and organize a meet and greet brunch. Members only, naturally.

[betsuni]

108. Didn't Sanders, the other day, say that voter turnout hit a 20-year low in 2016?

I just saw a headline about that, that it was incorrect. He doesn't seem to pay attention to details and just says things.

[Cha]

123. Sanders Wrong on Voter Turnout

snip//

Sen. Bernie Sanders wrongly claimed that voter turnout in 2016 was “the lowest … in 20 years.” In fact, turnout was higher than it was in 2012.

The overall turnout was 60.2 percent in 2016, up from 58.6 percent four years earlier. In addition, the percentage of eligible voters casting ballots for president in 2016 was 59.3 percent — the third highest in the last 44 years. Only 2008 and 2004 were higher.

More..
http://www.factcheck.org/2017/04/sanders-wrong-voter-turnout/

That headline? Yeah, he needs to check his facts.. 'cause we'll do it for him is he doesn't.

Sanders, April 16: So many of our people are giving up on the political process. It is very frightening. In the last presidential election, when Trump won, we had the lowest voter turnout over — in 20 years. And in the previous two years before that, in the midterm election, we had the lowest voter turnout in 70 years.

Thank you for the reminder, betsuni~

[MyNameGoesHere]

111. I was invited over to a friend's house

I didn't t find it necessary to shit in the living room of their house. I guess I just have some decency about those things.

[retrowire]

118. Suggesting how they decorate their house

Isn't the same as shitting in the living room.

Man everyone is so damn dramatic over some Bernie.

[randome]

141. Um, it's considered bad taste to be a guest in someone's house and tell them to redecorate.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font][hr]

[retrowire]

144. I've had friends and family make suggestions

Sometimes it's just being helpful. But I understand Bernie goes beyond the category of suggestion at times.

[randome]

146. Friends and family are different. Sanders wants to remain clear of any such 'entanglements'.

He wants to remain an outsider so an outsider he will remain.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font][hr]

[retrowire]

150. There in lies the difference

I consider Bernie family to me and the American people.

And I'm not caught up in the animosity. Maybe I'm what they call a big tent Democrat?

[randome]

154. But you are caught up in the hero worship, which is at least as unpleasant.

No politician should be considered 'family'. Don't you get it? He doesn't want to be part of the family but he wants to show up for weddings and funerals and Thanksgiving and Christmas and tell us how to behave.

Offering advice is one thing. Continuing to downgrade the Democratic Party shows his true colors, imo. He likes being the center of attention and he wants to be known as a maverick. That's what drives him to continually interject himself into another party's activities.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font][hr]

[retrowire]

155. Not really, you're making a lot of assumptions there. Nt

[betsuni]

143. Quoting someone's words is not dramatic.

[retrowire]

145. Huh?

I didn't say that was dramatic.

I said the analogy about shitting in someone's living room was.

[BainsBane]

127. Exactly

I've used almost the same analogy.

[Maven]

112. End this "unity" tour and stop giving this man a platform to undermine our party.

Enough.

[Cha]

125. Tom Perez and Keith Elllison should be doing

it.

[retrowire]

113. A man with conviction

What's not to like?

[NCTraveler]

122. Neither do I. nt.

[sharedvalues]

124. Sanders is a progressive

Isn't that enough?

Progressivism today is a big tent.

Remember a key goal of Russia's media interventions in 2016 was to make Democrats hate Bernie (cite: Sen Intelligence hearings). Let's unify around ideas - protecting the average American and embracing people from different races countries and religious traditions.

[Cha]

130. Whatever he is he needs to start Stop Getting It Wrong..

Sanders Wrong on Voter Turnout

snip//

Sen. Bernie Sanders wrongly claimed that voter turnout in 2016 was “the lowest … in 20 years.” In fact, turnout was higher than it was in 2012.

The overall turnout was 60.2 percent in 2016, up from 58.6 percent four years earlier. In addition, the percentage of eligible voters casting ballots for president in 2016 was 59.3 percent — the third highest in the last 44 years. Only 2008 and 2004 were higher.

Sanders, April 16: So many of our people are giving up on the political process. It is very frightening. In the last presidential election, when Trump won, we had the lowest voter turnout over — in 20 years. And in the previous two years before that, in the midterm election, we had the lowest voter turnout in 70 years.

More..
http://www.factcheck.org/2017/04/sanders-wrong-voter-turnout/

[BainsBane]

134. It isn't a big tent

It's used as a club to attack Democrats who dare to disagree with Bernie. It has become about nothing but Bernie, and it is a demographically narrow movement that seeks common cause with white male Trump voters while treating the Democratic base as the enemy.

What "Russian media interventions in 2016 was to make Democrats hate Bernie." The testimony was the opposite. Watts testified that the trolls posed as Bernie supporters to bash Clinton. Jesus.

[betsuni]

136. "a key goal of Russia's media interventions in 2016 was to make Democrats hate Bernie"

No, duh. Democrats aren't stupid and gullible enough to fall for fake news. The target was elsewhere, the stupid and gullible who hated the Democratic nominee for president in 2016 for nothing.

[aikoaiko]

132. Thank you Bernie Sanders for all that you do to help Democrats and the party.

I thank you for your criticisms and your support toward the Democratic party. I truly appreciate your representation of left-leaning independents within the Democratic party leadership.

You're showing politicians how being a "sheep dog" doesn't have to be disingenuous or dishonest.

The party "faithful" may not get it, but I do.

[GulfCoast66]

137. While I never loved or hated him during the election

He is really showing himself as more of a gadfly and self aggrandizer rather than someone willing to work on our team.

If the party does not take the tough stance of telling him to pound sand now and stop allowing him to use our party as a tool to tear it down we will regret it in 3 years.

We need to make it clear to him that if and when we regain power in the Senate that committee chairs and co-chairs will be reserved strictly for members of the Democratic Party. And end this farce of our party chair touring with someone who is not even a Democrat.

Better get the ugliness over with now than trying to elect a president with Sanders peeing in the punch bowl.

[hrmjustin]

138. I think he has a place in our politics but not as our presidential nominee.

I have no issue with him pushing an agenda based on issues that helps people.

[randome]

140. I don't consider you one, either.

No matter how much you badmouth us, we won't go away and we won't be 'your' party. We have our own ideas, thank you.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font][hr]

[Dem2]

149. Not gonna criticize him for this

His "outsider" appeal and attempt to expand the Democratic base in concert with a more established Democrat is a good thing IMO.

[LisaM]

151. Then can we stop making him a headline here?

Thanks.

[Blue_Tires]

153. Our door wasn't open to independents before?

Where the hell has Sanders been?

[Cha]

159. Sanders Wrong on Voter Turnout, too..

snip//

Sen. Bernie Sanders wrongly claimed that voter turnout in 2016 was “the lowest … in 20 years.” In fact, turnout was higher than it was in 2012.

The overall turnout was 60.2 percent in 2016, up from 58.6 percent four years earlier. In addition, the percentage of eligible voters casting ballots for president in 2016 was 59.3 percent — the third highest in the last 44 years. Only 2008 and 2004 were higher.

Sanders, April 16: So many of our people are giving up on the political process. It is very frightening. In the last presidential election, when Trump won, we had the lowest voter turnout over — in 20 years. And in the previous two years before that, in the midterm election, we had the lowest voter turnout in 70 years.

More..
http://www.factcheck.org/2017/04/sanders-wrong-voter-turnout/

Yes... BS also said on Chris Hayes that the Democratic Party needed to be Open to Independents.. forgetting that the Democratic Party let him in when all he had done was bash it for years.

[Arazi]

163. Good! It shows the Dems are a big tent and welcome Indies

We're going to need every last vote in 2018

[betsuni]

165. I still can't forget something Sanders said last year that shocked me, it was so ...

stupid. Who doesn't know this, it's common knowledge. I wonder if he listens to anything besides his own voice: "Honestly, I didn't know this until a week ago that in 1960, it turns out, Detroit was one of the wealthiest cities in America. Flint, Michigan, which today is mired in terrible poverty, was an extremely prosperous city." And he's supposed to be the expert on economics in the U.S.?

[BeckyDem]

167. I have read the responses to your thread and see it very differently than many here. Perez

is no ones fool and neither is Sanders. The fact of the matter is the Democratic Party has had hundreds of losses amounting to nearly a thousand over the last 9 years or so. I see the two of them as a team of good cop-bad cop and the idea Perez is putting up with Sanders or that Sanders is putting up with Perez is ludicrous. There is nothing about what they're both standing for on the same platform that will not enhance the chances of regaining those lost seats. We lost them for a variety of reasons and its a strong healthy approach that is needed to attract voters to trust we will deliver for them again. I can't for the life of me understand the idea Perez doesn't agree with Bernie or that Bernie doesn't agree with Perez, they're on the same page. I can't wait for the mid-terms where we kick the Republicans hard and be done with their reign of power. I hope Trump gets impeached too, it would be best for the country for him to be gone asap.

[tallahasseedem]

170. Good...

so if we say something about the way we feel about him we won't get our messages hidden for bashing "Democratic Figures"?

So...he's not a Democrat, but thinks he should be able to control our message? Nope. Raise money for Independents and move on buddy.

[Gothmog]

181. The fact that Sanders is willing to state this says a great deal

Sanders also did not try to help in the Georgia race. Sanders is not going to help the party unless he is also benefited.

[BeckyDem]

182. DNC rolls out new jobs for top brass, including Keith Ellison's newly created position

Maxwell Tani

5h 2,060
The Democratic National Committee on Wednesday announced roles for its top brass, outlining for the first time the duties Rep. Keith Ellison will tackle in the newly created deputy chair position.

"We are proud to usher in a new day at the DNC with a roster of extremely talented and diverse officers to lead our party's turnaround," DNC Chair Tom Perez said in a statement provided to Business Insider.

"The DNC leadership team is moving full steam ahead, enacting a true 57-states-and-territories strategy that ensures we are fighting for votes and putting our values into action in every single ZIP code," he added.
http://www.businessinsider.com/dnc-tom-perez-keith-ellison-roles-2017-4

[heaven05]

183. the man is free

affiliate with any political thought/Party. Just as long as he votes with Democrats on the key issues AGAINST the RW scourge plaguing this nation, now.

[Bradical79]

184. Anyone who ignores independents is an idiot

They make up around 40% of the electorate. Ignore independents or belittle them, and you're going out of your way to lose.

On the other hand, at least it settles one point of contention on this board. Bernie Sanders isn't a Democrat. End of story on that argument.

[WomenRising2017]

186. I don't consider him one either.

[Hekate]

188. Well that makes two of us, Senator Self-Righteous Gadfly....

Any criticisms aimed at the GOP lately? Or just us Democrats?

[ismnotwasm]

192. I'd accept pursuing woke progressive independents only.

I don't want any part of bigotry in whatever form--Sexism, racism, homophobia, anti-semitism, islamophobia--I won't excuse it. I won't "feel their pain" I won't make excuses for them and I don't want them in the Democratic Party. They can fuck right off.

[Luciferous]

195. Honestly I don't care what party he identifies with

as long as he continues fighting for the people!

[Gothmog]

196. Has Sanders agreed to support Ossoff yet?