Dog shot dead after attacking smaller dog at NH rest area

[jpak]

http://bangordailynews.com/2017/06/29/news/nation/dog-shot-dead-after-attacking-smaller-dog-at-nh-rest-area/?ref=polbeat

New Hampshire State Police are investigating whether a man walking his dog was guilty of reckless conduct when he shot to death another dog in the parking lot of the Hooksett Welcome Center on Wednesday afternoon.

The man told police his leashed dog was attacked by a larger dog that jumped out the window of a parked vehicle at the New Hampshire rest area.

“We are investigating this as a reckless conduct situation even though at this point in time it appears as though the shot and firing of the weapon was justified,” state police Sgt. Charles Johnston said.

Witnesses told police that they tried to separate the two dogs, but to no avail.

“The owner of the smaller animal that was being injured by the larger one pulled out his legally owned and carried firearm and shot and killed the larger animal,” Johnston said.

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[ExciteBike66]

1. And if the owner of the larger dog was armed,

and wanted to protect his own dog? Shootout in a public place?

[linuxman]

72. What if you had wheels?

You'd be a wagon.

[ExciteBike66]

74. At least I wouldn't be putting others in danger over the health of my dog...

whom I love dearly, of course.

[linuxman]

80. Lucky for you,

you can still love a dog after it's dead.

[Not Ruth]

2. There is no reason to shoot a dog

Just pick up your dog and walk away.

[csziggy]

3. Not if you can't get the larger dog to let go of its victim

From the link in the OP:
"Johnston said the owner of the smaller dog told police he had tried several times to get the larger animal’s jaws off his dog."

[MineralMan]

4. As a daily dog walker, I can say that it's not always that simple.

Perhaps you needed to be there.

[sarah FAILIN]

11. if this was a child it attacked would you feel the same?

No you wouldn't. There is no picking up your smaller dog and walking away. The larger dog would then attack you. Not all dogs are well behaved. Some are absolutely evil.

[trueblue2007]

37. If my little dog was being KILLED by a big dog, I would shoot the big dog too.

[WinkyDink]

21. Are you kidding? (You've never seen "Old Yeller"?)

[Egnever]

24. No?

Never?

[get the red out]

30. I love dogs more than anything

But if the large dog was really going after the small dog, the owner couldn't just "pick him up", and the large dog could have easily injured the person as well. Sticky situation, but I'm not going to say a dog owner has to let his dog be killed so the dog that is attacking him can live, especially when the attacking dog is the one that is loose and unattended.

[dixiegrrrrl]

42. An unleashed small pit bull type dog, half the size my 80# Golden, attacked my guy.

Mine was on leash, the other dog was not, and mine fought back.
Not sure how you would have a 5" partially disabled woman pick up an 80# dog, carry him above her head away from the jumping biting dog. Please let me know how I should do that, I am all ears.
I "walk" him on our neighborhood street with a golf cart, his leash tied to the cart.
That kept me from being pulled over when the dog attacked.

don't have a gun. I DO have a very stout cane, and used that on the attacking dog, he fled.

What type of dog(s) do you have, and how do you break up any fights???

Oh, and welcome to DU.

[Not Ruth]

43. I have a Jack Russell

[Stinky The Clown]

44. You don't own a small dog being attacked by a larger one.

We own large and small dogs. A few years back one of our German Shepherds attacked our Shih-Tzu. The small dog was simply coming in from the back yard. The GSD almost knocked us over and grabbed the small girl and started shaking her. I got the GSD off by grabbing her back legs and lifting her back end as high as I could, putting her, essentially upside down. She dropped the little one, who by now was GRAVELY injured. We took her to a pet ER where she went immediately into surgery and remained over n24 hours in critical condition.

I did what I did to the GSD because she was my dog and I didn't fear her at all. Were she not my dog I am not at all sure I would have chosen the same tactic.

A dog fight, particularly between dogs of disparate size is nothing short of terrifying.

To say "just pick up your dog and walk away" is ignorant in the extreme.

The GSD in my story was given back to the rescue and has been rehomed where she is the only dog.

[ileus]

46. Try picking up your dog when my 94lb GSD is shaking it side to side.

Or as my neighbor found out this past weekend when my other neighbors 50# mutt killed her little feist before she could say "stop"...much less pick it up and walk away.

[napi21]

52. Sometimes that works and sometimes it doesn't . If the larger dog is an agressor, it also likely to

attack YOU & YOUR DOG with everybody getting hurt. We've had that happen to our little dogs while we were walking the 2 of them ON LEASH in our own neighborhood. Our furkids are both Bichon Frises and the confronting dog was a large boxer. We did pick ours up and the boxer wouldn't back off. Finally the owner came out of his house and called his dog back. He has since kept his dog leashed!

[djg21]

62. Disagree.

Did you take the time to read the article rather than just the headline? The owner of the dog being attacked tried unsuccessfully to separate the dogs.

If a dog attacked one of my dogs and I feared for my dog’s safety, I’d use lethal force in a second if I believed there to be no other option. The fact that a gun was involved is really irrelevant. The incident was unfortunate, but dogs should be under the control of the owner or restrained at all times, and a dog in a car with a fully opened window through which it could escape obviously was not properly restrained.

[pirateshipdude]

76. There is no reason an aggressive dog should not have a leash on. Eom

[Hoyt]

5. Doggie Stand Your Ground. When are we going to stop allowing millions of stupid people

to walk around with gunz?

[Doug the Dem]

6. When the NHL awards a New Franchise

to Hell.

[Marengo]

7. The owner of the dog being attacked was stupid? In what way?

[Hoyt]

8. No the stupid fool with a gun in his pants.

There are ways to separate dogs. And, if the gun toter had been carrying pepper or wasp spray, he wouldn't have had to discharge a lethal weapon at a crowded rest stop in a highly charged situation, endangering other people.

Sorry a gun was not the answer to this situation, as much as you and the NRA will try to make it so.

[Marengo]

14. The owner of the dog being attacked fired the shot

Is he a "fool" for ending the attack in that way when other means failed?

[Hoyt]

17. As I added above, your "responsible" gun nut could have killed other people by firing

a lethal weapon at a rest stop. I'm sorry, gunz are not the answer in many cases, Marengo as much as you believe they are.

[Marengo]

19. What should he have done instead?

[ileus]

47. went inside and bought bee spray.

[friendly_iconoclast]

83. Applied a couple of cans of beans to the attacking dogs' head:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/117235537#post11

[friendly_iconoclast]

84. Or yelled "Stop, I have a gun!" at it:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/117235537#post41

[friendly_iconoclast]

85. Or clubbed it with a bicycle wheel:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=118&topic_id=482303&mesg_id=482577

[WinkyDink]

25. But didn't. Would you like the argument of "The dog could have attacked a toddler"? Oh, and

really, it's okay to write "guns."

[Hoyt]

38. Wink, the fool with a gun in his pants would do better to carry mace or something.

Heck, guns in a rest area are probably illegal in some states, don't know about this one.

Gun fanciers always have an excuse for their sick hobby and irrational fears.

[Marengo]

33. That you would recommend the carrying of wasp spray specifically for the purpose of self-defense...

Illustrates a profound ignorance. It is a poisonous substance which can cause considerable and permanent damage. A person using it in this capacity against another human or an animal may find themselves in serious legal trouble. The various types of pepper sprays have a mixed record of effectiveness against dogs who are engaging in a committed attack as this one was.

[Hoyt]

39. Sounds like some NRA bull to me. I'm sorry, guns in a rest area are wrong, no matter

Last edited Thu Jun 29, 2017, 05:45 PM - Edit history (1)

how you try to rationalize gunz everywhere approach to society.

[Marengo]

48. Is the Alaska Dept of Fish & Game "NRA bull"?

http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=wildlifenews.view_article&articles_id=480

They say NO to wasp spray for the reasons I mentioned. Would you like more refutation of your "advice"?

[Hoyt]

50. I bet my rear Fish & Game didn't suggest carrying a gun to ward off a dog instead. You gunners

really get irrational trying to protect you gunz, whether tucked in your pants or stored all over your house.

[Marengo]

54. Ready to admit your wasp spray advice is bullshit? I've provided 2 credible sources...

Advising against it, and those are just first page Google results. You want more?

[Hoyt]

56. You have not provided a rationale for a gun over wasp spray. I'm sure that is way you view things.

But all you've provided is an opinion that wasp spray is not the best thing to carry. Nothing says a gun is preferable other than gun fanciers, the NRA, and white wing militia types.

[Marengo]

64. Both sources clearly state wasp spray is NOT recommended for self-defense use against humans...

Or animals. Are you seriously arguing that it is, and more effective than a firearm?

[Marengo]

65. LOL! The Alaska Dept of Fish & Game clearly states a firearm IS preferable over wasp spray...

Since they don't recommend wasp spray at all.

[ileus]

49. Life is worth protecting....even at rest areas.

[Hoyt]

57. Well 93% seem to do that fine, Ileus, without a gun or two strapped to our body and 3 gun safes

at home. Do you wear your body armor at rest stops? Too bad you can't join the 93% of us who would never carry a gun in public.

[Lee-Lee]

26. Your giving bad advice. Foolish advice.

But that's nothing new.

Wasp spray for self defense is the urban legend that will hit die. If you hear or see anyone say that you can be certain they are a fool dispensing nonsense they have read online and don't have any real knowledge of. Wasp spray is not any form of valid self defense. It will possibly damage a persons eyes but does so slowly, so it won't suddenly stop an aggressive person or dog and just cripples the person or dog for life well after the danger has passed. It won't stop an attack and is likely in some states to get you sued for maiming the person.

People who reccomend wasp spray for any kind of self defense have zero clue what they are talking about and destroy all their credibility on the issue of self defense.

Even pepper spray can be an issue. At the point you get it out and ready the dogs will be so close that to get it on the larger aggressive dogs eyes and nose you have to spray the smaller now wounded dog too- so your spraying your own already wounded dog and getting pepper spray not just in its nose and eyes but probably open wounds too.

Great idea- pepper spray your already wounded dog and make its suffering worse!

It amazing some people are so reflexively against anything to do with a gun that they find fault with a perfectly justified defense of a pet from an aggressive unleashed dog, to the point they would rather have that smaller dog suffer more or be killed if it helps push their agenda against responsible people having guns.

[mreilly]

31. Exactly right...

... gotta love the gun haters sniffing that "A gun is not the answer no matter what you believe." So nice of them to tell us their beliefs mean more than ours!

The owner of the victimized dog did exactly right. He tried to stop the fight, then saved his dog. I have cats and if my cat was being mauled by an animal and I feared for his life I would kill the other animal to save my cat. And I'm a huge animal lover who used to want to be a vet.

So nice to see some common sense about guns from people around here. Some others literally have told me that a gun NEVER solves anything and if they were in a mass shooting they would just hope not to die. Great strategy!

[Lee-Lee]

32. You can tell the people who don't know what they are talking about

The moment you hear or see the words "wasp spray".

[Hoyt]

59. Yeah, like we should listen to people trying to promote more guns in more places. You and many of

those promoting guns here, probably make some income off guns as well.

[AncientGeezer]

66. So we can asuume you may gain income off Wasp Spray sales..equally rediciulous no?

[Lee-Lee]

68. No, but This post explains how an income source can be threatened by people with guns

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=45338

A person who describes themselves as a "former robber" would certainly feel that armed honest citizens would be a threat to their income stream...

[AncientGeezer]

70. Throw a can of beans at the perp....

That was a fun admission to see

[Hoyt]

58. Carrying a gun in public is something 93% of us would never do. How about you?

As usual, the gun fanciers miss the whole point. There are any number of alternatives to walking around with a gun or two in your pants.

[Motownman78]

60. People like Hoyt are no different

than those who try to ban abortions. If we just get rid of (guns/abortion) everything will be fine. Never delving into the real cause of either.

[djg21]

82. I carry a Kimber Pepperblaster

When I ride my bicycle. I bought it more to protect myself from dumbfucks in pickup trucks with confederate flag and “Make America Great” stickers, who appear to take great joy from rolling coal and confronting cyclists clad in Lycra. But i assume it would work for dogs and bears too.

http://store.kimberamerica.com/pepperblaster-ii-red

[Marengo]

34. Might want to read the info at the attached link before you recommend wasp spray again...

http://articles.extension.org/pages/70030/6-reasons-why-wasp-spray-is-not-a-substitute-for-pepper-spray

[Hoyt]

61. Link does not say a gun is preferably to a spray when dealing with dogs, or people for that matter.

[Marengo]

63. What the link DOES say is wasp spray is NOT recommend for self defense use as you have advocated

[Hoyt]

71. Depends on what you are comparing it to. It's definitely preferable to your gunz in this case.

[Marengo]

78. Provide a credible source that recommends wasp spray for self defense against humans or animals...

As effective, preferred, and legal.

[WinkyDink]

22. Maybe when we stop allowing stupid people to drive around with dangerous unleashed dogs.

[dembotoz]

9. would i protect my pup? hell yes

love to be on that jury

[LexVegas]

10. I would have done the same thing. nt

[vinny9698]

12. The proper way to seperate dogs.

Grab the dog by it's hind legs and then pull. This way you won't get bit and dog will quit attacking.
Got that from reading on how animal control handles such situations.

[Mosby]

20. That might work but you would have to be quick

the dog would turn and attack, while you were bent down. I carry mace but if I didn't have it I would use my feet to stop a dog attacking mine. The idea would be to try and use my length.

This sounds crazy but if you see a large dog running to your smaller dog the best course of action imo is to immediately put yourelf in front of your dog and use your voice and arms to intimidate/distract the animal. I have done that several times, once just to be careful about a loose dog, the other time a dog saw mine and ran out of an open front door. Both times everything turned out OK.

[WinkyDink]

27. Oh, right. The owner should have let go of his dog and tried to get around the other BITING

dog to grab its legs??

Ever see a dog bend itself to grab his tail? The "tail" would be you.

[lindysalsagal]

35. Really really bad idea: They're too fast and strong and they CAN still bite you and will.

I would not recommend you ever try that.

[GulfCoast66]

81. That...

Or shoot the large unleashed dog mauling you little leashed dog. Also works.

[sarah FAILIN]

13. I don't understand why the person isn't being give a medal.

I have tiny dogs. They couldn't survive an attack by a large dog. Who knows what the aggressive dog would have gone after next, but most likely a human if it was that bad.

[Lee-Lee]

15. Perfectly justified

Owner of the larger dog was negligent in not controlling their animal.

For those saying "grab the dog" there are many reasons to not do that. When they say larger dog they may mean 80-100 pounds, and getting the one middle of an attack by a dog of that size is a quick way to get injured, possibly badly. If you try and grab the smaller dog to get it away your highly likely to be bitten in the process. If you try and grab the larger dog your also likely to be injured- no good option there.

It also assumes that the person is physically capable of taking on a large animal that is being aggressive, if the person was elderly or had a disability that may not have been a viable option even if we disregard how much risk of injury there is in doing it.

[tblue37]

23. The owner of the large dog should not have left his dog in the car. If he

left the windows up, his dog would suffer and possibly die. But leaving the windows down meant his dog could get out and attack other dogs or even people, possibly a child.

The larger dog's owner was, as you say, negligent.

[Mosby]

16. This is why I carry mace on my leash

[Hoyt]

18. Exactly. A gun was overkill and dangerous at a rest stop.

[WinkyDink]

29. Apparently, it was just "kill" enough!

[Lee-Lee]

28. Think about it in this situation

Your small dog is already wounded and in the jaws of the large dog.

To spray the large dog you will have to spray your already wounded animal too, getting the pepper spray not just in its eyes and nose but in its open wounds too- greatly increasing your dogs suffering.

[Hoyt]

40. Lee, think about shooting a dog, the slug likely exiting the dog and god knows

where it landed. Truthfully, if you can't handle a dog without shooting it in a case like this, maybe you ought to just stay at home surrounded by your guns.

[AncientGeezer]

67. Can you gurantee the path of the wasp spray...innocent honey bees may be downwind

[Lee-Lee]

69. Actually, since you are likely very close and aiming down

I would be shooting down at it at a pretty steep angle, confident that if my round did exit the animal it would go into the ground beneath it.

It's very easy in that situation to safely shoot the dog. Just as this person did.

[lindysalsagal]

36. Attacking dog should have been crated. Period. I always crate my dog in a car

and she's a whole 14 lbs. If you don't have a big enough SUV to hold a big enough wire crate, leave the dog home.

The owner had it coming. And I don't want to hear "It's a really nice dog...blah, blah, blah...

Dogs have personalities and are predictable. That was not the first time it went after a smaller dog.

[Sunlei]

41. I'd do the same thing if my dog was attacked by a 'loose' dog & I couldn't get it off my dog.

Same goes for me, my family, my livestock and to help any person under attack by a loose dog.

[crazylikafox]

45. That happened to me & my dog at a rest stop. Except for the bad ending.

But a huge unleashed dog jumped out of a car window & ran straight for me & my 8 pound dog. Luckily the owners were able to tackle their dog before any damage was done. But it was terrifying.

[B2G]

51. If I have a gun, and that dog is attacking

My 7 lb maltapoo, that dog is dead.

The end.

[LanternWaste]

75. A singular solution is often the very best many people can do.

A singular solution is often the very best many people can do. More so the pity...

[B2G]

79. I see you've singled me out, yet again.

In spite of an overwhelming number of posts saying the same thing I did.

I think I have a fan.

[NutmegYankee]

53. New Hampshire State Police are just wasting taxpayer money. No jury would ever convict this guy.

The odds are extremely good that at least 1 of the 12 jurors would agree with his actions. Not to mention the Irony of cops investigating a dog shooting when they can shoot them in any situation without penalty.

[Kaleva]

55. The owner of the large dog ought to be the one facing potential charges.

[linuxman]

73. Good.

[nini]

77. My sisters dog almost died from a situation like this

I completely understand why the owner shot the other dog.