Bill to create panel that could remove Trump from office quietly picks up Democratic support

[MoonRiver]

Michael Isikoff
Chief Investigative Correspondent
Yahoo NewsJune 30, 2017
0:46 / 0:52

For months, House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi and other Democratic leaders have privately counseled their more militant members to forswear talk of impeaching President Trump, telling them the political support for such a step simply doesn’t exist in the GOP-controlled Congress.

But 25 House Democrats, including the ranking member of the House Judiciary Committee, are now pushing an equally radical alternative: They are backing a bill that would create a congressional “oversight” commission that could declare the president incapacitated, leading to his removal from office under the 25th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

At 12:56 p.m. Thursday, barely four hours after Trump tweeted attacks against MSNBC cable host Mika Brzezinski in crude, personal terms, Rep. Jamie Raskin, D-Md., the chief sponsor of the bill, sent out an email to his colleagues, urging them to get behind the measure, writing it was of “enduring importance to the security of our nation.”

more here: https://www.yahoo.com/news/bill-create-panel-remove-trump-office-quietly-picks-democratic-support-124521145.html

[Demsrule86]

1. There are not enough votes to impeach the president in the House.

Even if we take the House, it is unlikely there will be enough votes in the Senate for impeachment...I still think he will resign. And you hand the GOP a midterm rallying point with this stuff.

[MoonRiver]

4. Yes, and the article says invoking Article 25 is even harder

than impeachment. Still, I'm glad Dems are making the effort. Really hope you are correct about resignation. He is a threat to the entire world.

[Demsrule86]

32. He is a threat, but there is very little chance . Our best bet is to stop him by winning in 18.

[longship]

2. The 25th amendment is triggered by cabinet officers and VEEP.

The US House has no official say in that, unless and until the cabinet votes that the president is incapacitated and he chooses to fight it. Then, and only then, do the House and Senate get involved. A 2/3 majority in both houses then sustains the incapacity. Failing that, the president returns to power.

So this effort might raise some focus on the 25th amendment solution, it has no power over it.

People need to read the constitution.

[Demsrule86]

3. Yes they do. Impeachment was made very difficult on purpose.

[longship]

5. Well, all I can say is that you need to read the 25th amendment.

Specifically, section 4.

=======
Section 4. Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.

Thereafter, when the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that no inability exists, he shall resume the powers and duties of his office unless the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive department or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit within four days to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office. Thereupon Congress shall decide the issue, assembling within forty-eight hours for that purpose if not in session. If the Congress, within twenty-one days after receipt of the latter written declaration, or, if Congress is not in session, within twenty-one days after Congress is required to assemble, determines by two-thirds vote of both Houses that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall continue to discharge the same as Acting President; otherwise, the President shall resume the powers and duties of his office.[3]
=======
Note that there is nothing about congress until the president denies incapacity triggered by the cabinet officers and the VEEP.

Pretty clear here that the House has no power to invoke 25th amendment.

[lastlib]

14. "... or of such other body as Congress may by law provide..."

Congress (theoretically) could designate a House committee to take action. That said, it would take an act of Congress to do it, and that ain't gonna happen; even if the GOPee-run Congress passed it, Cheetolini wouldn't sign it. So it is a moot point. And with the cretins and crazies he's packed into the Cabinet, they ain't gonna take him down, either. We're stuck with the bastard until his high crimes and misdemeanors are undeniable to even Lyin' Ryan and McTurdle.

[ginnyinWI]

27. we know he would deny it, though.

The last thing a character like him would do is quit and be a "loser". Then the huge body of evidence would be presented, and the congress critters would have a choice to make.

[longship]

7. 25th amendment has absolutely nothing to do with impeachment

OP is about 25th amendment, an entirely different matter than impeachment (for high crimes or misdemeanors).

[boston bean]

25. umm I think that is clear to everyone who has read thus far. Maybe even before.

[Demsrule86]

31. Do you really think Trump's cabinet will do this?

I don't think so.

[longship]

33. Not likely.

He selected a cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs cabinet. But if Drumpf gets to be a real liability they may be forced to take action.

After all, they'd get Pence as president, which must be considered a saving throw of some sort by them.

But who in the Sam Hell knows what goes through their small brains?

[Silver Gaia]

6. I think Rep. Raskin has read the Constitution.

Quote from the article:

But Raskin, a former constitutional law professor, has seized on some largely overlooked language in Section 4 as the basis for his bill. It turns out it doesn’t have to be the Cabinet that makes a finding of presidential incapacity. The section also permits “such other body as Congress may by law provide” — along with the vice president — to reach the same conclusion.

[MoonRiver]

8. It's a long shot, but if the lunatic keeps melting down,

they might have a shot at getting him removed. At least I hope so. And, yes, Pence is horrible, maybe worse than Chump, but he's not bat shit crazy, and also has a lot of dirt on him.

[longship]

9. But there is no current law covering such a thing!!!

"such other body as Congress may BY LAW provide" requires that there be a law specifying the change.

At the current time there is no such law. And any such law would have to pass both houses of Congress and be signed into law by the POTUS. Good luck with that!

[MoonRiver]

10. Very unlikely to happen, but I'm glad Dems are showing some spine,

and not just rolling over like helpless victims. Plus, depending on his poll numbers and deteriorating mental state, they just might pull it off. The article did say that privately House Repubs are expressing a lot of concern about the madman.

[longship]

12. Agreed...

But Drumpf is still not going to sign such a bill into law, even if it passes Congress.

But you are right. This may be a good exercise and very well might stir something good up. I'm just not too sure about swaying the cabinet officers to invoke the 25th.

[Silver Gaia]

16. At the very least, if it gains momentum, it can shine a light

on just how dire this situation is. He is heaping abuse on everyone, including Cabinet members. Who knows what they may decide to do. Something HAS to happen to turn the tide. I'm for any means to do that, however remote a chance it may seem to have of success.

[longship]

18. Well, I agree with that, too.

I just don't want anybody here to think that Congress has any current power of law over a 25th amendment invocation. After all, we still have posts here -- even yesterday -- screaming for nullification of the 2016 election, which is also a constitutional non-starter.

My opinion is DU has quite a few individuals who are not aware of the US Constitution. I've sworn allegiance to that constitution more than once. I would much prefer that every citizen become familiar with what it actually says.

That is why I take these matters rather seriously.

My best to you.

[Silver Gaia]

19. Yes. Those posts concern me, too.

It is possible to educate in such cases without destroying all hope, though. When people lose hope, that's when they start to give up. We need to stay strong and fight. Eyes wide open, but not devoid of hope. That is where I am coming from.

Good day to you, and may you have an enjoyable patriot's holiday weekend.

[longship]

20. Me too you, my friend.

[Silver Gaia]

13. Yep. I agree! Glad at least a few Democrats are willing to try.

It is definitely a long shot, but we have a madman in the oval office. These are not "normal" times. I support anything that has even a remote possibility of saving us from this lunatic.

[Silver Gaia]

11. The article does not say that there IS currently a law.

It's about a bill proposed by Rep. Raskin (in the hope it may become a law, since that's the purpose of a bill; right?).

Did you read the article?

[longship]

15. Of course I read it.

My point is that the chance of getting such a bill through Congress and signed into law is nil. That an effort to do so will sway this cabinet and VEEP to take action is equally nil.

However, regardless, I do support the effort.

I just don't want anybody here to think that Congress has any such 25th amendment power at this time. That was the purpose of my post.

Thanks for your response.

[boston bean]

26. Everything is nil nil nil, right? How would you know what the appetite is if it isn't even

attempted.

Everyone should sit on hands because longship says so?

[longship]

30. Come on, BB.

Be reasonable. I have not made any personal attacks here. I find yours to be counter-productive.

I normally like your posts. This one disappoints me from your normally high standards.

My sole purpose in this thread is to frame the OP with regards to its constitutional context.

Now it very well may be that the GOP Congress will abandon Drumpf entirely and allow Dems to put forth a congressional pathway to a 25th amendment removal, but I don't think anybody here realistically thinks that such a thing is in anyway likely!

And I certainly did not call for anybody to sit on their hands! Quite the contrary! I indicated support in at least one post, including the one to which you responded.

I appreciate your response, but not your attempt at a personal slight. This is not about me or you; it's about the paths to a Drumpf defeat.

Best regards, my friend.

[BigmanPigman]

17. The two possible criminal offenses are Obstruction of Justice and Emoluments Clause.

He can be found guilty of both by Mueller and impeached. However Mueller just has to get the dirt on all of them (and there IS evidence) for Pence, Ryan, McConnell and many more. Collusion and complicity will get most of them. If there are several charges Congress/GOP will have to act.

[mdbl]

21. can the bill also include removing all the damage he's done with him

such as retracting Gorsuch from the SCOTUS.

[MoonRiver]

22. Of course not. eom

[Honeycombe8]

23. This bill should be passed for all Presidents.

I'm surprised that there's no mechanism for Congress to remove a President who has lost his mind but who hasn't yet committed any dangerous or crazy acts (probably because others have prevented it so far).

I doubt it'll pass, though. It'll be seen as a partisan bill, a witch hunt by the Democrats. Which is what Pelosi is trying to avoid: Conducting a real witch hunt, to give reality to Trump's false claims or "witch hunt."

[lindysalsagal]

29. I'm actually surprised they didn't try to impeach Obama. They would have HRC.

[ginnyinWI]

24. this is good news!

The sooner, the better.

[lindysalsagal]

28. I just emailed my congressman Himes

I mentioned that even if it ultimately does not act to remove 45, it gives the media something to discuss and protesters a phrase to repeat. Also, it makes the other reps publicly support or condemn 45.