To some, acting to push Democrats at ALL when we are under a fucking COUP is highjacking democracy

[LaydeeBug]

FUCK THESE PURIST MOTHERFUCKERS. Anybody telling you that Russia isn't our problem is normalizing this coup, and I am not having it. Fuck that out loud.

We are NOT the party of Bernie. I know. It seems like a divisive thing to post...like "how *dare* I?" but it is a simple fact, and one that is very easy to contemplate. Bernie is not a Democrat. He caucuses with them. That's all. I don't give a flying rat's ass about "Our revolution" because they exclude Democrats...but mostly, because however earnest their cause, the result is to allow Deza to divide and conquer. The result is the right gets to frame the fucking narrative while the left stands in a circular firing squad. *NOPE*

This. is. stupid. shit. compared. to. the. fucking. WAR. we. are. in. right. the. fuck. now.

Don't let them frame the narrative: We wish "Our Revolution" well, but *OUR* eyes are on the motherfucking prize, and that shit just divides us.

The same goes for "fat shaming" (I am certified fat, and if calling that fat fucking ugly pig Christie a fat fucking ugly pig works, then have at it...this is *war*). The same goes for *any* and *every* fucking thing that bothers them. Does *gay* bother them? It does. Shove it in their fucking face. Does *fat* bother them? Have another doughnut on your next golf outing Soviet Donald. Or whatever the fuck else works to disturb them.

When they go low, we *tried* going high (hat tip Michelle Obama). Now, when they go low...DON'T BACK DOWN.

Stay woke.

Splitting trifles in the wake of this coup does NOT help *any* of us.

Do NOT let them frame the fucking narrative.

Russia wants us to focus on Bernie and Nina. They want us to focus on "don't use this term or that term" (aside: use whatever works). They want us to focus on any and every other thing other than the fucking COUP.

This is not normal. We can't use normal tactics to defeat it.

Fuck anyone trying to pull your own punches FOR you. This is a coup.

[Not Ruth]

1. That is nothing compared to what is happening on Twitter

Broadsword_6 has already fallen.

Link to tweet

[LaydeeBug]

4. This whole thing seems to be happening on Twitter

but Broadsword_6 went after people who said votes were not tabulated properly. He DEMANDS that no vote flipping happened. I just can't get on board with that, in light of the evidence.

[Not Ruth]

188. Louise Mensch and Robin both seem determined to get the other kicked off of Twitter

This will determine the future of citizen journalism and The Resistance

Link to tweet

Vs

Link to tweet

[LaydeeBug]

190. Their infighting is NOT going to determine the future of citizen journalism

Let them squabble. Eye on the prize.

[Demsrule86]

2. Thanks ! You are correct.

we have an emergency...and we will see who are friends are...those who lend a hand...to fight Trump who stole the election in my opinion. And those who attack the Democratic party reveal themselves. No progressive would enable Trump and the GOP...

[boston bean]

3. It is maddening when one makes a response to those criticizing the party, to be told they are the

one preventing unity.... It's cray cray gaslighting tactics.

I am like WTF... Ladybug is right about that and I support her post.

[Demsrule86]

42. I do too.

I don't know why they most obsessively hate the Democratic Party...it can't be about policy because they should hate the GOP policy much more assuming they are progressive.

[Squinch]

5. Once again, you speak for me!

[YCHDT]

6. Does "Our Revolution" exclude democrats? Good indicator somethings not right about it

[bettyellen]

102. Nina said they would promote Repubs if they pass her one issue test....

hoping to get a constitutional amendment on campaign financing.

[NurseJackie]

126. I didn't think my opinion of her could get any lower. But it did.

[bettyellen]

135. I see I was mistaken - its single payer. I thought campaign financing was the one issue.

Not that it matters. It is what it is.

[NurseJackie]

136. The "worst" Democrat is always better than the "best" Republican. I will never...

... support any candidate other than the Democrat. I'll never respect anyone who does anything to help Republicans defeat Democrats. Ergo...

[Squinch]

151. Opening up the Constitution for it? SMH. What a moron. Why not just put nooses around

all our necks to enhance the efficiency of the eventual hangings.

[HughBeaumont]

7. Well, we'd better not be the party of Joe Manchin or Max Baucus either.

Milquetoast accommodation due to region loses elections.

Thomas Friedman neo-Liberalism loses elections.

Boomers aren't inheriting this hyper-capitalist anti-government shitshow. Gen-Xers and millennials ARE.

The Angry Orange Pelt Beret somehow got the older Gen-Xers on board with his garbage . . . some millennials as well, sadly. No millennial or woman should be on board with the 21st Century Republican platform, NONE of them.

And yet, they are. WHY?

That's got nothing to do with hacking (even though I support the Russian interference investigations). That has to do with bad messaging.

[LaydeeBug]

12. amen to this. nt

[Demsrule86]

18. We are the big tent party...we include the Joe Manchin's and the Elizabeth Warrens.

[OKNancy]

46. better Manchin than a tea-party turd

[LaydeeBug]

66. and THAT is the ugly TRUTH of the matter. Also, they're stealing shit

and we're supposed to be too nice to actually *say* that.

[boston bean]

76. Weren't we just told not long ago that we needed to be more unpure and accept that

people weren't going to agree on everything..

A more conservative dem was ok it if they didn't give a shit about social issues... but must be pure as the snow in other ways.

The refusal of some to see how social justice brings about econ justice is aggravating.

[mcar]

105. Makes my head spin

[still_one]

107. yup. What some fail to realize that the majority party controls the agenda. This was the whole

idea behind Howard Dean's 50-state strategy, different regions of the country are not going to view all issues the same way.

[Scruffy1]

91. The Democratic Party has always had its share of "deplorables".

Even the in the hay day of the New Deal We had all of the "conservative" southerners. This As a matter of fact the power of the southern bloc in the senate pretty much ruled right up until the late fifties and it's demise led to the defection of the south to the Republicans. Senators like Bob Kerr were a pain in the ass, too.His main interests was promoting his own interest in the oil business. Senator Eastland was one of the worst racists of all time. It was the southern bloc who exempted "agricultural" (wink wink, nod nod) workers from Social Security in the 30's. The only way the Senate leadership got their votes was to bribe them with public works projects.
The fact is that we live in a very backward country where beliefs often trump facts. The well informed DU membership is an aberration. Most of the voters read the sports page and throw the rest away. The vast majority do not read books of any kind , let alone informative, factual ones. To put any kind of purity test on politicians is self defeating. That is what primaries are for. the speaker of the House is such a powerful job that it is the main prize in many ways. Without holding that job a party if relegated to virtual silence as far as legislation because only the Speaker can put a bill on the floor. I would welcome Satan, himself, if it would give us a majority in the house.
That being said I have no problem with "Our Revolution" , Bernie or anyone else that isn't going to vote for Republicans. We can sit around replaying the past failures or get off or asses and get a large enough coalition that no one can "steal" the elections. We can piss and moan all we want, but it isn't going to change the fact that 60,000,00 voted for a moron and fell for an obvious huckster. That is reality.

[mountain grammy]

147. YES, YES and YES!

[brush]

181. The problem with you having no problem with Our Revolution is that they split the Dem vote...

and allow repugs to win.

We just saw that in 2016 with many Sanders' supporters staying home or writing in Sanders or going third party, with some even advocating for trump to hasten the revolution (that idiot Sarandon).

No thanks. I won't be on board with that diviseness.

[mdbl]

194. I agree

it's obvious these razor thin margins, even if we win them once in a while, won't be solid for future wins. The real problem is the money manipulators which requires some drastic changes in our tactics.

[NCTraveler]

129. You mention two people who win elections...

And shift to some point that they lose elections. This lack of understanding of a big tent is the mantra of purists.

[HughBeaumont]

158. Yeah, what a winner.

Max Baucus is part of the reason this country couldn't even be bothered to entertain Multi-payer. Sorry to break it to your moderates, but not moving into the 21st Century and with the rest of the world is DISGRACEFUL and detrimental to our nation.

The other drags the party to the right, a strategy that continues to lose countrywide.

"Just fine as is" is delusional.

[NCTraveler]

159. Strange response when shown the fatal flaw...

In the cornerstone of your argument. I do love your use of "your". Assumption without merit.

[HughBeaumont]

161. You assumed an argument I didn't even make.

My argument was that moving the party to the right nationwide because of regional right-moderate success is an awful strategy. Manchin and Baucus were merely examples of center-right politicians not to emulate.

[NCTraveler]

162. And there is another flaw.

The platform shifted to the left. I know it just feels good to yell Manchin.

Clinton campaigned to the left of most all Obama accomplishments. She had a great economic message. She was the option for the left.

[HughBeaumont]

166. Only because she got pushed.

Lest we forget . ..

That option . . . LOST.

To the absolute WORST Presidential candidate in history.

Hacking, interference? Yes.

My point is that NONE of these elections, Presidential, government, Congress, etc., against what are pretty much admitted neo-Fascists should even be CLOSE, let alone continuous losses.

[NCTraveler]

167. Transparent. Nt

[HughBeaumont]

169. "As is" works.

Really, we're just rolling in wins.

[NCTraveler]

171. That's exactly what I said.

"Really, we're just rolling in wins."




Boo!!!

Manchin!!!!

[mountain grammy]

149. I agree.

[BzaDem]

165. "Milquetoast accommodation due to region" WINS elections, and is the ONLY way to win in some states

I mean seriously. Trump took West Virginia by nearly 40 POINTS. Do you actually think that someone more progressive than Manchin could win in West Virginia?

Or do you think we can ever have a Senate majority without senators like Manchin? Such an idea is utterly divorced from reality. The Senate has a gigantic structural bias towards Republican majorities. For us to have any chance at a majority, we need to win Senate seats in 10-20 Trump states, including many in states he won by 20 points or more.

It is amazing how often attitudes like this are expressed, without the slightest shred of evidence or critical thinking. Simply amazing.

[HughBeaumont]

168. Does that strategy work on a national level?

Does pushing the party to the right work on a national level?

THAT'S my point.

[BzaDem]

172. You specifically said "Milquetoast accommodation due to region loses elections."

That doesn't seem to have anything to do with national campaigns, unless you are saying that we are letting our national campaigns be defined by the most conservative members of our caucus in the Senate.

Are you saying that Democratic presidential campaigns revolve around Joe Manchin's views (or the views of other Democrats from similarly conservative states)?

If so, a simple glance at the campaign positions of Manchin and Hillary (or Obama or Kerry for that matter) points out that such an assertion is quite simply not the case.

The reason campaign positions of Manchin don't define the campaign positions of our presidential candidates is because we don't need to win West Virginia to win the presidency.

[brush]

182. Preach! Talk sense to those who don't get the picture but think they do.

[cwydro]

8. Obviously you think it's ok to sling "gay" slurs

and fat slurs.

Not all of us think that's ok. Sad that you think it is.

Sounds like YOU want to "frame the fucking narrative".

It is NOT ok to sling gay slurs on DU. Period.

[LaydeeBug]

14. I don't think that gay is a slur...I STATED TRUTHFULLY that gay *bothers* them

because it fucking DOES. Sounds like YOU'RE the one trying to frame something.

So does inter racial relationships. Nope. Not a God-damned thing wrong with them. But it *bothers* *them* and we are at war.

This is a fucking coup.

So, nice try. No dice.

[cwydro]

21. You're certainly repetitive.

You've been trying to dig yourself out of the hole you dug insulting gay people in a previous thread. You got your ass handed to you in that thread, but you keep trying to justify your insults. Let it go.

Nice try backatcha.

[LaydeeBug]

29. WRONG!! (again) but of course, I am not suprised.

You've been after me since jump.

[boston bean]

74. I would just ignore.. gaslighting...

[cwydro]

122. Omg.

A post without the word "fuck".

[LaydeeBug]

139. omfg

happy to help.

[Sunlei]

51. It does bother 'them'. I always wonder what trump sees in a person like his BF Bannon. It can't just

be bannons brebart online news. There is some secret connection that keeps them so close and Bannon so very well paid. trump even cleaned up bannon, he's better groomed and he wears some of trumps old suits.

Not that I think they're a "closet gay couple", there must be **something deeper** between those two.

[LaydeeBug]

59. LOL. I had no idea about the suits. That's an interesting observation

I once got in a bar argument with a guy and while he was insisting Obama was Muslim, I was insisting that Soviet Donald wouldn't 'get off of Vladmir's dick' all campaign long. Now "get off my dick about it", along with things like "what crawled up your ass and died" and the like, are NOT slurring gays. It's colloquial trash talk.

Maybe I was inadvertently onto something though.

[brush]

183. There is. Rebecca Mercer, a Bannon backer is a billionaire repug's daughter.

[Demsrule86]

20. Are you accusing a DU'er of slinging gay slurs?

Back it up or delete this post...and I know you can't.

[cwydro]

23. There is an entire thread where this OP did exactly that

and was called out on it.

Lol aren't you the bossy one...

[Demsrule86]

26. Link...Oh and I have a Gay daughter...Gay is not a slur.

[Demsrule86]

24. That was not a gay slur and you know it.

She said shove it in their 'fucking faces' meaning we won't abandon gays in order to curry favor with the right...and she is right.

[LaydeeBug]

30. Thank you. Also, voicing that support *bothers* them. They want to split semantics and it's BULLSHIT

The same thing goes for interracial dating. It fucking BOTHERS them. I don't give a shit why. I wish they'd get off of my dick already.

Geeze.

[cwydro]

34. This is tiresome.

I'm referring to a different thread that the op continues to try and justify.

I'm impressed by your devotion to the op. It's very touching.

I'll be trashing this thread now as I do with all of this op's. The word "fuck" really gets boring when used ad nauseum..

[Demsrule86]

45. so post a link to this thread...

[cwydro]

48. Look it up yourself.

Are you so used to ordering others around?

Sorry bubba, I don't follow orders.

[QC]

65. She's trying to get you a hide for calling out another poster. n/t

[Demsrule86]

92. If 'she' wanted an alert...'she' would have already done so. Enjoy your holiday!

[Demsrule86]

89. Ok...that is what I thought.

I should look up a link that I don't even know the title of...that you refer to as proof of another DU'ers homophobia...you are lucky she didn't use the alert button.

[Demsrule86]

199. Calling someone 'Bubba' is name calling.

Please don't.

[NastyRiffraff]

127. THEN GO TO THAT 'DIFFERENT THREAD'

You're responding to THIS one, and you KNOW the OP didn't slur gays or anyone else. And FUCK is a great word in the America we are in right now. Deal with it. Or don't read the thread. Whatever.

[Demsrule86]

137. Nasty! and I like it...

[LaydeeBug]

140. THANK YOU VERY FUCKING MUCH! If they can't have it with pretending I was gay bashing

they'll complain about the fuck word. Fuck that all day long.

[brush]

184. That's getting a little silly. Who cares if someone uses the word "fuck"?

We're not in church and don't need the curse word grammar police.

We're all adults here.

[melman]

41. Bullshit

If that's the case then why is the mention of 'gay' preceded by the stuff about fat shaming, and followed by the thing about 'going low'?

[BumRushDaShow]

9. And to put an exclamation point on this - CNN breaking - a bilateral meeting w/Russia will happen

http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/04/politics/trump-putin-bilateral/index.html

No "pull aside". You can imagine what is going to happen with this.

[melman]

10. 'Does *gay* bother them? It does. Shove it in their fucking face.'

What do you mean by this?

If we look at the line in context it seems you're saying it's okay to insult gay people for being gay, or to use 'gay' as a slur.


because first you say it's okay to fat shame if it bothers them, and then you say throw gay in their face.. so what else could it mean? It means either insult gay people for being gay, or it means use 'gay' as a homophobic taunt.

"The same goes for "fat shaming" (I am certified fat, and if calling that fat fucking ugly pig Christie a fat fucking ugly pig works, then have at it...this is *war*). The same goes for *any* and *every* fucking thing that bothers them. Does *gay* bother them? It does. Shove it in their fucking face. Does *fat* bother them? Have another doughnut on your next golf outing Soviet Donald. Or whatever the fuck else works to disturb them."



And that is definitely not okay. Not even a little.

[LaydeeBug]

11. You are doing it RIGHT FUCKING NOW.

[melman]

15. Calling you on the homophobic bullshit in your OP?

Yes. Yes I am.

[LaydeeBug]

17. *nope* calling for a circular firing squad when you need your ammo for the war. Nice try though..

see post #14.

[cwydro]

40. Thank you.

This op can't seem to leave this alone. Curious.

[MineralMan]

13. Say It Loud!

[Gothmog]

16. K&R

[tiredtoo]

19. Yes

focus on the real enemy here.

[betsuni]

22. K&R

[QC]

25. Speaking as someone who *is* gay, I don't think homophobia

has any place in our party or on this site.

[Demsrule86]

27. My daughter is Gay...and that is not a slur to use that word.

[LaydeeBug]

31. THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU.

They want to take umbrage with WORDS...which we can use or not.

Fuck that.

[Demsrule86]

50. They want choose our words now.

I think we can choose for ourselves.

[LaydeeBug]

67. YAS!!! And bully us in the process. FUCK THAT. nt

[Demsrule86]

86. Yep...it is unacceptable.

[NastyRiffraff]

131. Oh, and how DARE you

Use the word "fuck"? It's SO offensive and we must NOT offend the tiny little snowflakes.

I can't understand people who think the word "gay" is somehow a slur.

(edited to add the sarcasm thingy because you know some people won't get it)

[LaydeeBug]

164. Dreadful I tell you. Just. fucking. dreadful. nt

[QC]

38. Why are you are trying to defend the indefensible?

Why won't you stop barking commands at everyone and listen now and then?

If gay people are telling you that gay-shaming political opponents is wrong, they probably have a point. You should at least consider what they have to say and not order them to sit down and shut up.

[cwydro]

43. Well put.

Thank you.

[QC]

47. Thank you. I'm so tired of having commands barked at me. n/t

[Demsrule86]

55. Why would I listen to a poster who calls a DU'er anti-gay and refuses to provide a link that

supposedly proves it? I object to name calling. Gay is not a bad word...I have a daughter who is gay...and she uses the term. As for barking orders...I do not believe anyone can tell another DU'er what to do, I merely suggested that he/she back up their claim or delete their post.

[cwydro]

57. I'm gay.

Too bad you can't see what others are trying to tell you.

[QC]

71. STOP CHOOSING HER WORDS!11!!1!!! n/t

[LaydeeBug]

193. That's a great idea!

[QC]

62. You're not gay. You don't get to tell gay people what is and is not

offensive to gay people.

I don't know how to make it any simpler than that.

And yes, you do constantly shout orders at people and try to silence them.

[cwydro]

72. You're better at dealing with this oblivious person than I am.

Again, thank you.

[QC]

73. I'm giving up. It's a beautiful day out and I have things to do.

I recommend that you walk away from this shoutfest as well.

[cwydro]

80. Getting ready to take my kayak out.

Happy 4th to you!

This thread can sink to where it belongs.

[LaydeeBug]

191. Hope you had a great 4th kayacking.

Maybe the fresh water would help you see that I am not a gay basher.

You're welcome.

[Demsrule86]

81. You know...calling laydee a homophobe by deliberately misrepresenting her words is not right.

And all the abuse you heap upon me won't change that. Funny... kind of ironic really...complaining about name calling while calling other DU'ers including me names.

[cwydro]

83. I haven't called any names at all.

You're trying very hard.

Go have a nice holiday dearest.

[Demsrule86]

85. You too.

[Demsrule86]

138. You shouldn't call people homophobic either. There is nothing on this thread that supports that

name. And don't mention the 'other' thread unless you produce...only fair.

[aikoaiko]

28. "Fuck these purist motherfuckers"?

This is how we lose.

You're letting you anger and fear say hateful things about allies.

You cannot demand fidelity and expect to get it.

[LaydeeBug]

32. *NOPE*. Being cheated is how we lose...kowtowing to circular firing squad logic

normalizes it.

[aikoaiko]

56. YMMV but I don't see your posts as an effective strategy for building the party.

And growing our numbers of voters.

I know you have your fan base here at DU but there has to be a better way than our own purity tests to never push the party left.

[LaydeeBug]

63. I don't think you're helping either

because I never said never...but that didn't stop you, now did it?

[aikoaiko]

70. When you say "fuck these motherfuckers" for pushing the party

...You're employing your own purity test.

[WinkyDink]

64. A Counter-Coup is the immediate and VITAL cause. Open your EYES.

[JHan]

37. Her point wasn't hard to understand

Logic ....you can't win with purists because nothing is ever pure enough for a purist...I mean for goodness sake, History teaches this

Lady's point is correct, this is the moment for all hands on deck and some people think it's the right time for a dumb civil war in the party which will only result in more GOP picking at the spoils of war.

[aikoaiko]

49. there are very few "purists" out there.

Most leftie independents vote with is almost all the time but make it hard for them.

This OP is a good example of that.

It's really not hard to understand.

[JHan]

52. Last year proved there are many people

Who will engage in selective purity tests - and let's not pretend busterism isn't a thing.

[aikoaiko]

58. Yes Busters existed. PUMAs existed when we won the WH twice.

Obama didn't win and the Democratic Party didn't win by being vile toward independents who wanted more from the party.

[JHan]

101. Um...

The left was not fractured in 2008. Hillary conceded after three days to Obama ....it was nothing like the nonsense last year. Last year was more comparable to 2000.

[aikoaiko]

106. Well that's true, mostly. But that was due in part to Obama's leadership and appealing to left

And our collective hatred of Bush 2.

[JHan]

109. Yes Obama was tremendous but he wasn't defending an incumbent..

and he faced no outsider, he and hillary were both Democrats and were able to mend fences. Neither of them attacked the party itself.

I am not going to rehash last year right now, because Lady's points remain salient - our enemy right now is the GOP, if ever there was a time for Democrats so called allies to get their act in gear the time is now.

[aikoaiko]

115. I agree. We do need to fight the GOP collectively.

But saying that lefties who want something different from the Democratic party are hijacking Democracy or demanding fidelity isn't going to work no matter how vigorously the party faithful yell.

We can appeal to them. I think this is why Schumer invited Bernie into Democratic leadership. It shows lefties we can respond.

I know there are those who disagree with Schumer's decision, but I think that is the party leadership's strategy.

[JHan]

117. they already have a seat at the table...

when they disrespect others at the table is when I have a problem.

[aikoaiko]

118. That's what democracy looks like -- it can be uncomfortable at times.

Let me add that while I am very sympathetic to non-Democratic Party lefties, I don't agree with all their tactics or positions either.

[Me.]

79. Excuse My Ignorance

What is busterism

[JHan]

99. BoBers

"Bernie or bust"

[Me.]

130. Aah, Got It

Thank you

[Me.]

154. While Its True I Didnt Know That Particular Appelation

I am quite familiar with the tactics of the Bros. and am not appreciative of their bullying methods. Just ask Chelsea Clinton what she thinks of them. If you don’t believe they exist and are a myth I have an onion dome I could sell you. Then again, you are entitled to think as you wish, we are still a democracy. But honestly, I’m not quite sure what your last sentence means, did you come here to meet rabid moderates?

[Me.]

157. I Get You

And it is true, we don't often know who's behind a keyboard, however, a lot of harm has been done by anonymous strangers (is that redundant?) I'm thinking primarily of Russian bots and rat infested sites such as Infowars.

[Me.]

170. Of Course

Now that people have caught onto the fake review scam..or the opposite…there seems to be a movement to weed the fakers out. We’ll see..maybe they’ll start with 45.

[Voltaire2]

189. It is the theory that the only problem with the Democratic Party,

which has lost all three branches of the federal government and 35 state legislatures, is that a handful of disgruntled millenial white male Sanders supporters didn't vote for Clinton.

[NurseJackie]

61. You're correct. (And, thank you for trying.)

It's been my experience that it's a waste of time to try and explain something to a person who is actually smarter than they're pretending to be. Don't be fooled. In order for people play the "who? moi?" game (or the "how very dare you" game), there needs to be a denial of facts, or an ability to ignore the truth, and pretending to misunderstand. Therefore, you'll not get anywhere with your polite explanations... other than to remove all doubt that you're on to the game playing.

[JHan]

111. I can't help it sometimes ..

I really worry about the foolish divisiveness, because this is not the time for us to be fucking around. It's a matter of life or death.

[NurseJackie]

116. That's what sets you apart. You're motivated by a desire to benefit all...

... others have selfish motivations that are based on pride and vanity, and a complete disregard for those who suffer when purity is their only concern. I often shake my head in amazement when I see how little value some place on common-sense things like political compromise, finding common-ground, and having realistic expectations. Amazingly, those things are less important than the personal satisfaction that some (like Susan Sarandon for example, among others) get from their grandstanding and showboating.

[JHan]

119. The funny thing is I am really very much to the left or rather very LIBERAL on a lot of issues...

in some respects, radically liberal, but america won't reach where I want her to if the GOP stays in power and if I stupidly attack democrats.

[NurseJackie]

120. Unsurprizingly, it's totally possible to be "radical" and reasonable at the same time. You...

... you are living proof of that.

[JHan]

125. ;)

[mythology]

33. Some of us refuse to engage in bigotry, some of us believe in maintaining our morality

It saddens me that people will embrace doing things like calling Republicans gay. I won't stoop to that level and I'm glad for the others in this thread who also refuse to do so.

[WinkyDink]

69. Hit 'em in their hypocrisy. This ain't Tiddly-Winks.

[pirateshipdude]

75. True. I can't/won't adopt that middle paragraph. But, I loved every bit of the rest of the OP. Eom

[ileus]

35. Preach it to em'

[judesedit]

36. We must stay united and focused on this disastrous attack that has been inflicted on our country

We cannot squabble while they destroy our and our family's and friend's lives. We have serious business to attend to. We are the majority. We can and must work toward that end every day. WE as in all of us.

[Sunlei]

39. You're right. I wish they would run the Russia-Republican collusion investigations 24/7. TO SLOW!

Sloths, the lot of them! With all the time saving technology they have today.

They move like the American government is in the 1800s and stuck with pony express mail & message 'boys'.

[retrowire]

53. Our Revolution excludes Dems?

Can you elaborate?

[Demsrule86]

77. Yes, and they back Greens as well. They also primary sitting Democrats but the GOP

is fine with them apparently.

'...But Our Revolution, a player in Democratic politics, does not limit itself to supporting one party. This year, it backed long-time Green Party activist Cheryl Honkala for a legislative race in Philadelphia where Democrats bungled their nominating process and ran no candidate; after a Democrat won as a write-in candidate, Honkala filed a lawsuit. OurRev also backed Ali Deng, a progressive city council candidate in Vermont. Sanders himself, the longest-serving independent ever to serve in Congress, has suggested that there will be times where people might do best to run outside the Democratic Party — even as he takes a major role in changing that party from within..'


https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029265003

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/2017/06/29/nina-turner-a-democratic-party-critic-takes-reins-of-sanders-founded-group/?utm_term=.45804a598c1d

[Gore1FL]

54. I'm not going to fight the enemy by becoming the enemy.

Sorry. I am not going to call them fat as an insult. I am not going to use sexual orientation as a slur isn't a slur even if they think it is. I will not compare them to races they don't like. Inciting people by leveraging their bigotry simply isn't a useful tactic.

There is a litany of legitimate criticisms to lodge at Trump, at Christie, at Greitens, at Loesch, at <fill in the blank>. It's not "pulling punches" to focus on those. And frankly, hurtful school yard taunts isn't exactly what I'd call a hard punch.

I don't care that Trump has a weight problem; I care he is selling us out to Russia. I don't care if he overdoes his fake tan makeup; I care that he is taking away people's healthcare. I give exactly zero shits that he has small hands; I care that he is exacerbating the wealth gap.

[cwydro]

82. Bingo. nt

[WinkyDink]

60. Once again, I bow down. I second every single awesome word (even

the "I am fat" because...I am!)

They didn't coin "All's fair in love and war" for nothing.

[samnsara]

68. im right there with you.......

[Paladin]

78. Well and perfectly stated as usual, LDB.

I watched a Watergate retrospective on TV last night---as evil and paranoid as Dick Nixon certainly was, he had his mental shit together better than our current White House resident does, by a mile. Those of you who don't acknowledge that we've got a dangerous lunatic running this country into the ground, aren't paying attention. My God, what historians are going to write about this sordid chapter in our nation's history. No July 4 celebrations for me this year---I'd feel like a fucking hypocrite, trying to feel good about what this country has become.

[Demsrule86]

84. They can't attack your argument so they use faux outrage over a supposed slur that you never

made...don't listen. If I was their philosophy teacher I would give their posts an F-...Ad Hominem attacks are not persuasive.

[All-In]

87. Some People Are Tired Of Taking The Good With The Bad - Sorry Ladybub

Why?

Because they hear "they are all the same" way too often.

Conservatism is the problem, more than Republican scumbags.

Corporatism is the problem, not just Republican scumbags.

Having 5,000 people run the planet as their cash machine is the problem, and this needs to be talked about, and it isn't.

It's a little more complicated than Republican ~vs~ Democrat.

I don't believe in attacking Democrats during a war for our country's soul, but way too many people don't understand Democrats are on their side for a reason. Showing the brainwashed why they are broke, and talking about how they are being screwed every time they pay anything to anyone should be part of every conversation.

How many of "us" supported TPP? You remember TPP? The handover of government to corporate lawyers suing because of environmental regulations that might hurt their corporate clients' ability to profit by polluting.

Both my state's Senators supported TPP, and giving Boeing 10 billion in tax cuts in our race to the bottom.

It's a little more complicated than us ~vs~ them.

Sorry too many don't understand.

We are too busy fighting each other while we are being plundered.

I want to talk about the plundering too.

[mcar]

88. K&R

I'm done with them. Republicans are the enemy.

Vote Democratic!

[leftstreet]

90. Who's Nina? What's a Deza?

Is this a preview of Season 4?

[Gman]

93. "FUCK THESE PURIST MOTHERFUCKERS"

Exactly.

[Madam45for2923]

94. Watch: Is Van Jones minimizing Trump/Russia Investigations?

http://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2017/06/30/van-jones-okeefe-video-a-hoax-sot-ac.cnn/video/playlists/top-news-videos/

Just adding this to the OP and thread as an FYI, that's all!

[Honeycombe8]

98. I think he IS minimizing it.

He wants the focus to be on his pet issues. Dems can walk and chew gum at the same time, but needs to focus on the Russian coup, IMO. If Russia takes over (and that's already taken place to some extent), the other issues won't matter.

I think we should keep our eye on the ball. I'm very worried about the Russian thing. I DO think we have a Russian puppet as President. I think Jones is right that the Republicans in Congress won't do anything at this point, but if the special counsel comes out with a clear report, I think they will be forced to do something. Maybe not. But I hold out hope. What choice do we have?

[George II]

95. I agree entirely, especially in light of what Nina Turner said last week:

When asked "Do you see Our Revolution working to bring some unity to factions in the party?" she answered "No. Not really."

Further, when asked "Will the group be endorsing non-Democrats?" she answered "You know what, yes. We are open to it. And for me, I’ve also heard the senator say this lately too."

So she (and presumably everyone in "Our Revolution&quot is not interested in bringing unity to factions of the Democratic Party, and she declared that "Our Revolution" is open to endorsing non-Democrats.

That is not what we need for the Democratic Party.

[Madam45for2923]

96. New head of Our Revolution Nina Turner on Unity with DEMS!!

New head of Sen. Sanders group, Our Revolution, says "No" to Democratic Party unity



https://www.thenation.com/article/nina-turner-it-is-not-our-job-to-fit-into-the-democratic-establishment/



LaydeeBug


0. To some, acting to push Democrats at ALL when we are under a fucking COUP is highjacking democracy

FUCK THESE PURIST MOTHERFUCKERS. Anybody telling you that Russia isn't our problem is normalizing this coup, and I am not having it. Fuck that out loud.

We are NOT the party of Bernie. I know. It seems like a divisive thing to post...like "how *dare* I?" but it is a simple fact, and one that is very easy to contemplate. Bernie is not a Democrat. He caucuses with them. That's all. I don't give a flying rat's ass about "Our revolution" because they exclude Democrats...but mostly, because however earnest their cause, the result is to allow Deza to divide and conquer. The result is the right gets to frame the fucking narrative while the left stands in a circular firing squad. *NOPE*

This. is. stupid. shit. compared. to. the. fucking. WAR. we. are. in. right. the. fuck. now.

Don't let them frame the narrative: We wish "Our Revolution" well, but *OUR* eyes are on the motherfucking prize, and that shit just divides us.

The same goes for "fat shaming" (I am certified fat, and if calling that fat fucking ugly pig Christie a fat fucking ugly pig works, then have at it...this is *war*). The same goes for *any* and *every* fucking thing that bothers them. Does *gay* bother them? It does. Shove it in their fucking face. Does *fat* bother them? Have another doughnut on your next golf outing Soviet Donald. Or whatever the fuck else works to disturb them.

When they go low, we *tried* going high (hat tip Michelle Obama). Now, when they go low...DON'T BACK DOWN.

Stay woke.

Splitting trifles in the wake of this coup does NOT help *any* of us.

Do NOT let them frame the fucking narrative.

Russia wants us to focus on Bernie and Nina. They want us to focus on "don't use this term or that term" (aside: use whatever works). They want us to focus on any and every other thing other than the fucking COUP.

This is not normal. We can't use normal tactics to defeat it.

Fuck anyone trying to pull your own punches FOR you. This is a coup.

[bettyellen]

104. After hearing both Obama and Clinton slimed for reaching across the aisle one bit this is rich....

I guess it's part of the "they're all the same" narrative but repackaged? Interesting.

[Madam45for2923]

97. David Yankovich gets strange treatment from Wisconsin Our Revolution? Why?

Take a minute to read this personal account of Our Revolution by Yankovich campaign manager Lauren Young:

"I think it is important to share what happened yesterday because my candidate is David Yankovich for Congress, Democrat running for Paul Ryan's seat.

We had 3 events scheduled, but on Friday night David turned to me (Like candidates freaking do!) and says "I want to go to Revolution", the founding convention for Our Wisconsin Revolution, the first state offshoot of Bernie's group.
His reasoning, "they are talking about unity and making things work, and 2018 will be massive if we can help the party come together. I feel like I need to go there and listen to them & let them know I am all about a big blue wave."
I cancelled our other events.

We drove 3 hours to the convention & as soon as we got there we were thrown out.
No, I am not kidding.

We went to the breakout groups for Congressional Districts. As soon as we introduced ourselves (to the 10 or 12 people there), David was asked who he voted for. Yes, he was given an immediate purity test and this group was hostile.
He voted Bernie in the primary then voted Hillary in the general. This did not please the group. Apparently the correct answer was to not have supported the Democratic nominee over Trump?

They told us they wanted us to leave, that they didn't want us to learn their secrets.
David attempted to calm their fears, "I'm not a spy, I'm hear to listen and for unity."
Again, we were told to leave.

I don't ever air my grievances in public but I am fed up with this. If this is their idea of unity, then this is a sign of massive Republican success in 2018 if the left can't get their act together.
This was an official Revolution event."

https://www.facebook.com/annklefstad/posts/10154466595431682

Link to tweet

Anti-Trump former intel analyst David Yankovich considers running against Paul Ryan in 2018 midterms
http://www.palmerreport.com/opinion/anti-trump-former-intel-analyst-david-yankovich-considers-running-against-paul-ryan-in-2018-midterms/2651/

[Squinch]

176. Wow. They sound insane.

[PatrickforO]

100. Hmm. With all due respect, it sounds like you're the one doing the dividing.

Words do matter, you know, and we have to begin using them more effectively against the right. For instance, Senator Warren has said she backs 'single payer.'

Which is GREAT! So do I.

However, poll after poll after poll after poll shows that when you say 'single payer,' fewer people support you than if you said 'Medicare for all.' This is just a plain fact, yet Sen. Warren and others are still clinging to the words 'single payer.'

Here's a link to prove what I just said. Comes from a 2016 Kaiser study: News Release, Kaiser Family Foundation, February 25, 2016

The survey also finds that the words to describe such a [health care reform] plan clearly affect how people view it. For instance, nearly two-thirds (64%) of Americans say they have a positive reaction to the term “Medicare-for-all,” and most (57%) say the same about “guaranteed universal health coverage.” Fewer have a positive reaction to “single payer health insurance system” (44%).

http://kff.org/global-health-policy/press-release/public-split-on-what-to-do-about-the-health-care-system-though-more-support-building-on-aca-than-repealing-it-replacing-with-a-gop-alternative-or-creating-a-single-payer-plan/

Yet, when I point THIS out, why am I one of the people trying to waste time while the right wing coup happens, etc, etc, etc? I'm on your side. All I'm saying is that what we have BEEN doing isn't working. We can see the evidence of that in 33 GOP controlled state legislatures, 32 GOP governorships, and GOP control of the entire federal government. The definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing you've always done, but expecting different results.

Republicans tore us a new one in 2016. Sure, Clinton won the popular vote, but Trump is still in the WH. Plus GOP majorities in both Houses of Congress.

This is why I keep reminding everyone that words matter - a lesson Lee Atwater taught Karl Rove, and that he learned very well. Words matter.

So, instead of saying:

Single payer,

We should say:

Medicare for all. People understand and like Medicare.

When a Republican says:

'Job-killing regulations,'

We should say:

No, those are life-saving guidelines (and then have a story to back that up, like the explosion of the Martinez family's dream home in Firestone, Colorado due to methane gas leaked from an uncapped pipe.

When a Republican says:

Obama-care is a disaster and we have to save the victims,

We should say,

The only disasters that have happened as a result of Obama-care are related to Republicans sabotaging it. For example (have an anecdote - my favorite is the failure of GOP controlled states to expand Medicaid actually made it worse for people because insurance companies raised rates - so the GOP victimized their own rank and file to sabotage the law instead of trying to make it work).

I'm sorry, and again with all due respect, it is threads like this that divide us.

[m-lekktor]

112. excellent post!

my deleted comment was meant for the OP. i responded to you with it erroneously!

[PatrickforO]

173. Oh. I thought I'd be catching flak for this post.

Thanks!

[LiberalLovinLug]

143. Very well said

How about all the Democrats using the term the "Deathcare Bill" whenever they can?

Its time to stop being so prissy when it comes to language. Time to fight fire with fire. We tried going high when they go low. It didn't work. It would have been a wonderful thing if it did. Some would say it did I guess, with the popular vote win, and probably without the Russians and GOP shenanigans Hillary would have won fair and square. But that didn't happen, so we must stop pussy footing around and get fucking angry! They are destroying the country for fucks sake!

[PatrickforO]

174. 'Deathcare!' I love it!

Thanks, and I might borrow this term for a GD thread I want to start.

[LiberalLovinLug]

175. Do it!

[PatrickforO]

186. Here you go...

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029288305

Thanks!

You might have coined a really winning term!

[Trial_By_Fire]

103. "Russia wants us to focus on Bernie and Nina."

It appears you are helping them with your thread...

Also, your premise of "...a flying rat's ass about "Our revolution" because they exclude Democrats" isn't true.
If your premise is false, maybe you should rethink your position on it...

[Squinch]

177. See post 97.

[Trial_By_Fire]

179. Hearsay...

[Squinch]

180. .

[m-lekktor]

110. Unrec x 10000

I wouldn't even know where to begin. so neverfuckingmind.

[radical noodle]

113. K&R

1000000+

[blue-wave]

121. K&R

Thank you for saying it as it must be said.

[nini]

123. Exactly

We don't have time right now for the purity test. We have a common enemy - if the nina turner types don't want to fight them instead of us - then fuck them. THEY do NOT have the interests of this country in mind but their need to be 'superior' to the rest of us. I grew up with someone with that mindset and they annoy the living fuck out of me.

[world wide wally]

124. One thing we ALL have understand is that every election we have is a binary election.

It is always a question of "either or" and that is just reality. It doesn't even matter what you feel deep down inside. You have to make the choice you have an option to make. Wishing is for Disney movies only.

[NastyRiffraff]

128. BRAVO!

Yes, we DID try to go high. But they weren't having it. They slung their filth and now we're supposed to smear it all over ourselves. FUCK that. Thank you, LaydeeBug

[WhiteTara]

132. When they go low, we bury them!

In the words of a wonderful woman whose name I don't know.

[Voltaire2]

133. A disaster of an election but not a coup.

Even if we assume that Russia managed to hack enough voting machines to swing the election, which of course we actually have no evidence for, that would not constitute a coup. A coup is a military overthrow of a government, where the military involved is the military of the country itself.

Instead we have an administration that won an election while receiving campaign support from a foreign power. That support may in fact have violated numerous laws, and members of the Trump campaign team may very well be getting indicted for those crimes. Still not a coup. In fact, as the election results were certified, Trump is the legally elected president of the USA.

I'm all for indicting the crap out of everyone on the Trump team including Trump, on the off chance that this would embarrass the GOP into the impeachment that is the only remedy to this situation, but I'm not counting on that.

Instead, I'm looking at the long decline across the board of the Democratic Party, and I've concluded that continuing the same stunted centrist messaging of the last 20 years will produce the same dismal results. The party has to change.

[workinclasszero]

134. ***This is a coup***

Damn right and the MSM and elements of the so-called left want us to go back to sleep and/or bicker with each other as Trump and the fascist republicans lock down this country forever with the help of Putin's Russia.

[murielm99]

141. Thank you.

I run into people who parrot every damn word that comes out of Our Revolution. They usually don't know WTF they are talking about. Some of them don't even know where their narrative is coming from.

We need to follow our DEMOCRATIC leaders, and GOTV. It is harder for them to cheat when we show up and work in large numbers. Believe it or not, calling, writing snail mail letters and post cards, writing LTTEs and showing up in the streets can have an impact. Social media is great, but it is not everything.

I am a Democrat and a liberal. I will label myself, thank you very much.

[Jamaal510]

142. K&R

[Nevernose]

156. Try winning the next election with

"Trump is bad and so is Russia." See if that message works any better than it did in 2016.

Most of the paid staff of Our Revolution is, by the way, made up of Democrats. They just want liberal positions pushed.

[Squinch]

178. See post 97.

[Nevernose]

187. I honestly can't

I'm using my phone, so it's not like the old "see post 5467" days.

[SaschaHM]

163. I'm all for this except for the "words" part...

Frankly, I don't have the patience for Democrats adopting racist and/or homophobic language to attack our enemies. Fuck that shit.

Hating Donald Trump does not give you an excuse to piss on your allies. We are all in this together and if you can't tear down Trump and his trolls without resorting to disgraceful/hurtful homophobic/racist language then I don't have the time for you.

Hell, it's usually not Russia/Or Conservatives saying cut that shit out, it's your own allies. And you don't shoot your allies during a war.

[spixxen]

195. Dems have hardened up, but.....

.....not nearly hard enough.

We are fighting a bastardized interpretation of the constitution AND we have no power in the Oval Office to combat it.

CLANK! CLANK! CLANK!

That's the sound of how thick your skin NEEDS to be.

Way to much mamby-pamby still floating through too many peoples' heads.

We liberals are sterilizing our own existence into oblivion.

Put pressure on all media outlets to bring the truth to the forefront once again.

Call your local media and tell them to shape the fuck up.

[JustAnotherGen]

196. I would suggest folks pick up

Malcolm Nance's The Plot To Hack America. If folks can't see that Trump is a Russian asset (whether intentional or not) I don't know what to tell them.

Russia views NATO and the EU as a threat to their own "Monroe Doctrine". Along comes a guy who hates the EU and NATO. A guy who is egotistical and thirsty for political validation?

Just remember - two years ago we had folks at DU with a 'fuck America attitude' who were Putin apologists. They all crawled away - or at least I think they did.

Or maybe they are still out there just filling up Yahoo comments - because it's easier for Russians to do that at Yahoo than at DU?

I dunno -but I want to bring back the HUAC. This time it will NOT be a witch hunt - but an honest way to find out who is an American and who is not.

[melman]

197. 'I want to bring back the HUAC'

Wow what a fantastic idea.


'This time it will NOT be a witch hunt - but an honest way to find out who is an American and who is not.'


Right. Because they didn't say that the first time.

[JustAnotherGen]

198. Oh well -

It may not be the common group think at DU where we are supposed to 'defer' to whatever R.T. tells us -

But it was the sentiment at the very old, very white, very male VFW on Saturday night - in Central NJ.

You don't have to agree with us - just accept that we are looking at the Trump apologists in our a rural little borough in America and giving them the side eye.

The time is now - when Vietnam and Korean War vets who VOTED for TRUMP have TURNED on him -

We go with that to get their votes THIS November.

I'm not a keyboard warrior - I'm an activist.

Now get rid of the 'crazy eyes' in your post to me - or I'm going to Admin. That is a direct insult and YOU did that to deliberately accuse me of being MENTALLY INSANE.

It's an insult and you know it Melman. YOU KNOW IT. You get away with that a lot - but I see it and I'm calling you out for it.

I don't insult you - no one does. Everyone leaves you alone. So why would you do that?