Bernie Sanders : These are very serious allegations" but there should not be a rush to judgement

[sunonmars]

Link to tweet

Hello..........? WTF is up with him oh i forgot...A reminder, Bernie was one of only two votes against Russian sanctions in the Senate.

[Chasstev365]

1. No Bernie: THERE SHOULD BE A RUSH TO JUDGEMENT!

With so many lies we don't have to pretend anymore!

[beam me up scottie]

62. Not by senators.

I agree with Bernie, our elected officials need to wait for the investigation to finish before accusing anyone of committing crimes.

[YCHDT]

2. Thought you were talking about Hucakbee Sanders

[loyalsister]

3. Due process and all that technical stuff still applies

Divisive hysteria is not helpful.

[uppityperson]

4. +++

[sunonmars]

5. Due process is not something those shits would afford us, screw them.

They certainly did not afford Clinton due process, they hung her. I will give them nothing.

[DefenseLawyer]

6. Then you are an authoritarian. Congratulations. n/t

[sunonmars]

9. When you are fighting mafia scum, you bring a gun or you'll end up dead

Being a lightweight dipshit only gets you killed.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

13. I don't think Bob Mueller is a "lightweight dipshit"

and he will carefully observe all the rules of due process, as he should.

[DefenseLawyer]

39. Al Capone went to prison for tax evasion n/t

[LanternWaste]

42. Odd that you believe a mere post on a simple message board denies Due Process.

Odd that you believe a mere post on a simple message board denies Due Process, regardless of whether we congratulate you for that or no...

[DefenseLawyer]

64. Nothing anyone posts on DU denies anyone Due Process.

However, it certainly seemed to me from what this individual wrote that he or she was advocating against affording due process to members of the trump administration. Denying due process to your political opponents would be one of the central tenets of authoritarianism. If you feel that was not what was being advocated, you are certainly entitled to your opinion.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

67. Trump deserves due process...

But that's different than saying we shouldn't make as much political hay out of their perfidy as possible. At the least it has helped us slow down his reactionary agenda.

[DefenseLawyer]

68. That's a different subject altogether.

Political, we shouldn't be cutting any of these people any slack whatsoever. Just leave due process out of the conversation lest we sound like fascists.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

69. All I know is I would have extended due process to Hitler or OBL...

All I know is I would have extended due process to Hitler or OBL though I can see the practical difficulties of bringing in either man alive.


That being said this Trump shit show is mesmerizing and if the media accounts are largely correct a lot of Team Trump has legal exposure

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

8. Due process is the core of our legal system.

Just because they wouldn't do it, doesn't mean due process should be ignored as applied to them. Give up due process for anybody and you kick the legs out from under the entire system and we end up with an unaccountable system like that of Russia, where there are show trials and people are murdered in prison. We are trying desperately to prevent that from happening.

[sunonmars]

10. Oh they'll get due process, what I'm saying is call it for what it is, dont pussyfoot.

[True Dough]

34. I don't agree with the "we'll do it at all costs" attitude

expressed by many DUers lately. Very quick to shed principles and integrity just because the other side fights dirty. Anarchy isn't the solution to today's problems. We're all eager to see this administration shut down, but, as you say, let justice be administered properly so there aren't any (legitimate) disputes about the fall of Dolt 45 et al.

[bettyellen]

53. We aren't judges and juries and should call it what we see it now. Absolutely public opinion

Matters and we all know impeachment would be on already if the GOP wasn't protecting him. We should not support their huge double standard or pretend it didn't happen. It fucking happened and they can't deny it now.
Why give serial liars the benefit of the doubt?

We're not putting him in jail or depriving him of anything. He doesn't deserve to be president and it's out there for all to see now.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

77. I'm distinguishing what we, members of the general public, think

from what the ultimate results of the various investigations might be. Personally, I think they're all guilty as sin and ought to be perp-walked out of the White House with their coats over their heads and thereafter spend their days breaking rocks at Leavenworth. But when someone cautions against a "rush to judgment," I interpret it as meaning simply that we shouldn't necessarily expect the legal outcome to be what we want it to be. Public opinion absolutely matters, especially with respect to impeachment (much more than with respect to criminal prosecution) because impeachment is a political act. Nixon wouldn't have been forced to resign under immediate threat of impeachment if it weren't for the fact that he had lost a lot of popular support.

[bettyellen]

78. No, it's got nothing to do with varying expectations we have of what the results will be -

And everything to do with saying what we see with or own eyes. When people say to reserve judgement after today? Well I agree with Maddow about this- we have seen proof of exactly what they've lied about hundreds of times over the past year and used knowingly used the fruits of Russian crimes to harm America. There's no question they asked for those emails and got them. That there wasn't anything horriblemin them doesn't matter. They tried and succeeded running a huge propaganda operation with a hostile nation. It's not time to say, well maybe .... it happened. We know it did. Game changer.

[bettyellen]

15. No one is disputing the truth of the email - this is treason. Fuck anyone waiting for more info.

[LanternWaste]

41. my own judgement, guesses and opinions do not affect due process in any way,

That my own judgement, guesses and opinions do not affect due process in any way-- that's the purview of law enforcement and courts only.

That said, I honestly don't perceive how these judgments, guesses and opinions rise to the level of anything close to hysteria.

[pirateshipdude]

72. There is at least one other thread calling out our Democratic leadership for not being on every

cable news show throwing hissy fit over and over and over. Their failure. Their bad. Their spinelessness.

Yet, this melba toast statement is a thumbs up?

[NCTraveler]

79. Due process is a legal construct. Nt

[Eliot Rosewater]

7. I stated, a long time ago, who Bernie and Thom are, and I stand by that.

I will be proven correct someday, but it will be way too late.

[Me.]

36. I'll Give You A +1 For That

[leftofcool]

51. Yep

[SaschaHM]

11. Sigh... maybe he is unaware of the contents of the released emails...

I'm guessing that he's going to be a bit muted on these issues if the investigation into Jane's dealings at Burlington College has sped up as the WaPo and NYT reported yesterday/last weekend.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

12. He's right. There shouldn't be a rush to judgment. Let Mueller do his job

and figure out who's guilty of what. We certainly have our opinions, and it sure looks bad, but the legal system has to do its job.

[bettyellen]

16. But we know the core of the allegations are true. It's conspiring w an adversary.

[enough]

20. + 1. NT

[snooper2]

14. LOL, is he pardon shopping for Jane?

[oswaldactedalone]

17. STFU

Bernie and act like a Democrat. Oh, wait

[Foamfollower]

18. And people wonder why I would take ANY (D) over ANY(I) that caucuses with the Dems.

[enough]

19. Things are getting pretty bad when that is a controversial statement.

Let them hang themselves with their own rope.

[Demsrule86]

43. Nothing but criticism for Democrats...but gives the GOP every benefit of the doubt...I find that

disturbing.

[smirkymonkey]

89. +1000

I am more than disillusioned with him. I becoming downright hostile toward him.

[Thrill]

21. Always the play nice from the left

Lol

[sunonmars]

23. Which is why the dems are losing everything right now, start fighting hard.

[Thrill]

24. Yup. You wouldn't hear one Republican Senator

Say let's not Rush to Judgement. If this was about Clinton or Obama

[mythology]

22. Sanders is right

Make sure you have the facts first. It's really not smart to do otherwise, particularly when dealing with something this potentially serious.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

25. Yes, this is a big deal. While it's apparent that the Trump campaign

was up to no good, and there are no innocent explanations for a lot of what seems to have happened, we still need to know exactly who did what. To prosecute any crime successfully you have to be able to prove beyond a reasonable doubt all elements of the alleged offense. In this case there is evidence of a variety of offenses - campaign laws against contributions from foreign nationals in the case of Don Jr. - but there are a lot of intertwined facts involving other activities. They also have to look at obstruction of justice, perjury, maybe even espionage, and a whole collection of financial crimes. They have to sort out all of these things and then decide whom to prosecute and for what, and whether the prosecution is likely to be successful. They, and we, can't afford to blow these prosecutions by taking them on prematurely.

[MuseRider]

30. Agreed,

we rush they win. DT is stupid for sure but he has lawyers that will be looking for every out imaginable. Cool heads, we know there is enough to take them down, at least enough to stop the rapid backslide we are in.

I want this done before the election even occurred but I never win because I rush to judgement far too often.

Cool heads, let Muller and the others do their thing. It will be air tight in all matters.

[Demsrule86]

44. Jr. released the emails himself.

[pnwmom]

80. We have enough of the facts. The emails themselves are damning. They offered him dirt on Hillary

as a part of Russia's support for DT's candidacy, and he wasn't surprised at all -- which would be the normal response under innocent circumstances. Instead, he enthusiastically answered: "I love it!"

That said it all.

[frazzled]

26. If Nancy Pelosi said this, people would be screaming for her to resign

I'm just saying. Goose, gander.

It's not that I don't agree that we need to let the Special Prosecutor proceed with his findings and the legal ramifications. It's that the hypocrisy on this board is amazing.

[SaschaHM]

32. I mean Sen. Corey Booker said something similar to this, with less direct evidence about Kushner,...

and he was crucified.

[mcar]

33. Yes they would

Those who call for her to step down every time she speaks, or the Rs launch an attack on her would be apoplectic if she said this.

[OilemFirchen]

91. In fact,

many of the familiar posters urging restraint were furious when Pelosi chose not to pursue GWB's impeachment. They were angry that Obama didn't pursue a single-payer system, though it was never proposed. They were angry that Obama didn't push for a public option, when no less than the subject of this OP stated that the votes weren't there. They continue to be angry that some Democratic leadership are correctly observing that, within the current political climate, running on universal health care would be political suicide. They'll never forgive the previous administration for failing to jail Wall Street executives.

Now it's about "restraint"? Lord have mercy.

[workinclasszero]

28. Looking for leadership here Bernie

But not finding any.

[Blue_Adept]

38. Indeed! I alternate between saying "Who?" and

being disappointed that he finds it easier to take shots at the Democratic party overall than level some seriousness toward this.

[workinclasszero]

40. Yeah Bernie doesn't seem to have any reservations

against attacking the democratic party anytime but with Trump's treasonous crime family we must not rush to judgment?

[mcar]

29. What!

Not helpful Bernie.

[phleshdef]

31. Meh. Thats a predictable and harmless, generic statement.

[Demsrule86]

45. Indeed ...he saves the criticisms for the Democratic Party.

[phleshdef]

47. Bernie has ripped Donald Trump to shreds on several occasions.

He has flat out called Trump racist and a pathological liar many, many times.

[pnwmom]

81. Exactly. Why is he issuing a harmless, generic statement in response to a situation that even

Republican ethics expert Richard Painter said is close to treason?

[WhiskeyGrinder]

35. And they say he's such a great messenger.

[dalton99a]

37. WTF, Bernie. "It's a shocking admission of a criminal conspiracy"

said Jens David Ohlin, associate dean of Cornell Law School

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/07/11/donald-trump-jr-may-have-just-crossed-the-legal-line-on-collusion/

[boston bean]

46. It makes me wonder.

[Maven]

48. Worse than useless. nt

[oasis]

49. Reserving judgement until after Junior's Hannity interview tonight?

[herding cats]

50. Just imagine if Nancy Pelosi had said this?

I bet the replies here would be quite different.

[blitzen]

56. We'll, this is DEMOCRATIC Underground...

Bye.

[oswaldactedalone]

54. Bernie Sanders

has turned into a caricature. Time to take his tired act out of the spotlight so he has time to justify his wife's criminal behavior. Wish I hadn't voted for him in the primary. He'd of been a disastrous candidate.

[karynnj]

57. He voted against it because of the IRAN sanctions in the same bill

You are intentionally misreading his comment. Very, Very, very serious --- is not saying that nothing is there. As to not rushing to judgment, it is is always a good idea. As there is something very very rotten there, they need to meticulously build their case.

[beam me up scottie]

60. Exactly. This has been discussed repeatedly.

But it's much more fun to pretend Bernie is in league with the Russians.

[moda253]

58. Yeah it isn't like the republicans

Yeah it isn't like the republicans ever have cried about emails.......

I mean why would we use something to distract and stop republicans from ripping healthcare away from millions of Americans?

Our democracy is being stolen from us and this guy wants us to calm down.

[beam me up scottie]

59. You think this means he thinks Trump is innocent? Then why did he post this on Twitter?

Link to tweet

When did cautioning against making unfounded allegations become synonymous with being a Russian sympathizer?

[moda253]

61. If we can disrupt their agenda at all we should

And we should be doing it by any means possible. That is the playbook that Republicans took with us. You hear anyone but us whining about it? Make them answer for this. Get them on record defending it. And you have your campaign ads written.

[beam me up scottie]

63. I disagree.

I don't want sitting senators making accusations without evidence, it will be used to discredit them.

There's nothing wrong with pointing to the smoke and suggesting there's fire, no reason to resort to unfounded accusations.

[kentuck]

65. Strange behavior by Bernie.

Does he know something we don't now?

[killbotfactory]

66. That asshole Bernie, wasting time opposing horrible GOP and Trump policies

Instead of banging on Russia drum.

http://www.kentucky.com/news/politics-government/article160443014.html

What a self absorbed showboating idiot.

[pirateshipdude]

70. Of course not, because nothing really is important but that intense focus of one issue and

one issue only.

[0rganism]

71. that's a lot of "very"

maybe Bernie was exposed to the Trump linguistic limitation virus? sad...

[pirateshipdude]

73. Dem bashing time....

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=9311904

A lot of people here seem fine with Sanders statement, yet the demand toward the Democratic Party does not seem to get the same people in them to stand up for Democrats.

Interesting.

[nini]

74. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand what was in those emails

No rushing necessary since it nails him right away.

Poor Bernie must be confused as to what is right and wrong here. Or still choosing to play his BS games.

[pirateshipdude]

75. PP being attacked by a fake and altered video. Sanders reply. Agrees with apology about tone

in the videos. That is it. No more. Nothing about anything else Richardson said, or the fact PP was being mercilessly attacked or that it was all a lie. Just that an apology for the tone on the video was correct.

When only focused on one thing as he admits, then there is not a lot of room for anything else.

Or worse.

[beam me up scottie]

82. That's not true.

Your claim:

"Sanders reply. Agrees with apology about tone
in the videos. That is it. No more. Nothing about anything else Richardson said, or the fact PP was being mercilessly attacked or that it was all a lie. Just that an apology for the tone on the video was correct. "

***


Here's what Bernie actually said:

"They're not selling fetuses," Sanders said. "And this is something, I think the tone of that discussion was unfortunate. But if the question is, do I support Planned Parenthood? I absolutely do. ... I will defend Planned Parenthood. I think a lot of this attack, to be honest with you, comes from people who simply do not believe that a woman should have a right to control her own body. That's the motive."

It's a good thing we can use Google and sea beyond your claim.

[pirateshipdude]

83. Can you clarify how long it was before Sanders added that clarity to his single statement made?

Thank-you.

[beam me up scottie]

85. I would but as you know it's against the rules to refight the primaries.

Nice try, though.

I accept your admission that your claim about the senator was wrong. It's easy to get confused with so much disinformation out there. We need to sea beyond the past and move on with the resistance.

Thankfully Bernie calls attention to the Russian scandal often so any implications about his loyalty are bordering on insanity.

[musette_sf]

87. What Sen Sanders said in July of 2015

changed to calling Planned Parenthood an "establishment organization" by January of 2016.

You're welcome.

[beam me up scottie]

88. Which isn't what the poster claimed. I corrected her statement.

You're both welcome!




By the way, you're also welcome for the links to Jon Svitavsky's Facebook posts. A shame that didn't work out.

[musette_sf]

92. You may wish to adjust your Snark-O-Meter

since all I asked for were actual verifiable links, which you provided. You will find my commentary on said links back at that article.

You're welcome.

[opiate69]

96. ...

[guillaumeb]

76. Trying to infer what is unsupported by actual evidence?

Understood.

[jalan48]

84. Sound advice. A "Dan Rather" moment could hurt the investigation.

[beam me up scottie]

86. Yup. The last thing we need are senators making accusations that can't be backed up yet.

Network pundits are trying to get them on record but Bernie isn't playing their game.

[ecstatic]

93. Funny... He rushes to judge every g-ddamn thing that democrats, like Obama, do

What was his comment about President Obama's speech, before knowing any of the f*cking details?! GMAMFB!

[fishwax]

94. oh the horror.

[Trial_By_Fire]

95. Democratic Senator Warner basically said the same thing...

...on CBS nightly news.

Looks like some of you will have to start attacking Senator Warner now, too...

[ashtonelijah]

97. Also Bernie: Hillary and Obama gave Wall Street speeches? I judge them to be capitalist whores.

j/s