Is anyone else starting to think the Russians were behind Trump's run from the start?

[hedda_foil]

We found out tonight that there was a lot of conversation about Trump among Putin's top guys early in 2015, before he announced. Did he actually run because the Russians made him an offer too good to refuse?

[MFM008]

1. YES

They could smell this guy coming.

[Pachamama]

2. Yes - have believed that all along....

Whether whispered into his ear or stated directly, it's clear that his monster ego was pushed into that direction by design from the Russians...

He really is the "Manchurian Candidate"...

They chose well...

[cilla4progress]

6. That's what I said to my husband tonight.

An actual Manchurian candidate. Bizarre. Life imitates art.

[emulatorloo]

3. Most likely

[SummerSnow]

4. He has been in bed with the Russians for a long time.

It's all about the money he gets from them. Their Govt, the mob. When I watched Richard Engels special. Russians he interviewed said the Russian govt and the mob are all the same. They have proof of everything Trump. They give him money he follows their orders

[Cosmocat]

31. He was money laundering for Russian mobsters

A quarter century ago.

Hasn't been able to prop up/finance his con operation without them since the 90s.

He has more Russian mobsters than cockroaches in TT.

All thus was know long before he came down the escalalator.

He was in their bag from moment one, only question is how much they tipped the scale at any given time.

[WinkyDink]

5. My long-held theory is that yes, Trump was Russia's plan for POTUS years ago. I believe the

Republican Primaries might well have been hacked to this ultimate end.

IOW, the ONLY quo Putin and his bankers wanted and would accept for the multi-millions that constituted Trump's quid was----

The United States government, complete with favorable rulings (starting with the pro-Russia change in the Republican Platform).

[airmid]

28. I think they were practicing with both Primaries. Look at the cluster f*ck in the

Arizona Dem Primary. I think they were practicing for the General.

[Not Ruth]

34. How about Melania?

She looks Russian. Maybe she is the one in charge.

[WinkyDink]

42. Um, you ARE using a computer, correct?

[GallopingGhost]

65. Definitely.

This was brewing for a long time.

[Ilsa]

71. She's not "in charge", but I would not be

Surprised to learn that she was deep undercover, a mole, but not their best and brightest. They promised her an easy life with wealth, but she needed to take orders from the kremlin and steer donald.

[cilla4progress]

7. The tRump family business is

Money laundering.

Honestly, who here is surprised by all this? Aggravating.

[SweetieD]

8. The dossier mentioned that Trump was a target since 2010. And I believe that.

Putin wanted him to run against Obama in the 2012 election.

[bettyellen]

52. Likely they were salivating over the racist nationalism they could stoke here....

[betsuni]

9. Yes.

But I don't think they could've predicted the extent of his mental deterioration after becoming president. Trump is so sloppy and such a blabbermouth, surely they want someone more discreet. If the goal was to make the U.S. a laughingstock, though, mission accomplished.

[LiberalBrooke]

27. He was their useful idiot

But what they ultimately got was an idiot in don the con.

[Hekate]

10. Yeah. Now excuse me while I go purge.

[SoCalMusicLover]

11. Were The Primaries Fixed Also?

Makes one wonder whether the machines were hacked in the primaries as well, so that the other nominees never had a chance.

[WinkyDink]

20. See my Post #5.

[33taw]

22. It would be interesting to see a comparison of primaries to caucuses.

[Solly Mack]

12. Probably.

[fishwax]

13. I don't think it's beyond possibliity that they were behind his birther campaign against Obama

[VermontKevin]

15. I think lots of the fake news anti-TPP stories originated from Russia, too.

[stuffmatters]

23. TPP fake news stories? Many respected D Senators rightly resisted bkz ISDS

Democratic opposition focused upon the ISDS clause in TPP, which mandated the judicial supremacy of anti democractic, global corporate kangeroo courts over soverign nations.

I would agree with you that Trump's America First attack on treaties from NAFTA through TPP is kabuki, opportunistic concern trolling.. He could care less about Americans retaining the sovereign right to protect our health, safety, workers rights, any or all that was threatened by ISDS' supremacy of global corporations.. Trump used NAFTA/TPP to stir up the Republican three horsemen...racism, resentment and fear. And Putin's always eager to break up any union of countries that does not include or favor Putin, so Trump's anti TPP, anti NAFTA nativism was certainly useful. I agree with you there.

Neither Trump nor Putin would object to ISDS clauses in any treaty...they are both corporate authoritarians The objections of those Dems here and in Congress who did object to TPP bkz of ISDS had well informed, very democratic reasons for their resistance. Their in opposition was not influenced by fake news.

[VermontKevin]

45. Exactly. Concerns about ISDS were generated from fake news sources.

ISDS has been around for over a century. It's in NAFTA, CAFTA, every trade agreement.

BUT, ISDS in the TPP was different. It reformed it, Also, it contained provisions regarding currency manipulation. And there were significant enhanced protections for intellectual property. (Think Ivanka's pirated shoes) These were the 3 reasons Russia and China HATED the TPP. Had it been signed, any free trade agreement they would have signed in the Asian markets would have had the same standards.

If they had wanted to join the TPP itself, those three provisions would have been major stumbling points.



It's really worth reading this entire article:

Democrats, organized labor and the Ford Motor Company were especially opposed to the trade agreement because it did not include what they considered enforceable protections against other countries’ manipulation of their currency’s value to gain price advantages for their products. The pact did have a side agreement that, in another first for trade accords, included the parties’ “joint declaration” against currency manipulation, required them to report interventions in exchange markets and set annual meetings to discuss any disputes.

Another innovation in the T.P.P. was provisions to help small businesses, which lack the resources of big corporations, to navigate export rules, trade barriers and red tape. (Think Ivanka's pirated shoes)

Opponents on the left were especially critical of the agreement for opening the door to more foreign subsidiaries being able to go to special trade tribunals to sue to block local, state or federal policies — environmental or consumer safety rules, say — on grounds that the rules conflict with corporations’ rights under the trade pact.

The administration, however, countered that the trade agreement actually reformed the so-called Investor-State Dispute Settlement tribunals, which are a longstanding feature of trade policy. It called for changes responding to criticisms that the tribunals favor corporations and interfere with nations’ efforts to protect public health and safety.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/12/business/economy/donald-trump-trade-tpp-trans-pacific-partnership.html

Remember that day one of his Presidency, Trump kills the TPP for Russia.

Russia was able to this in our elections:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bernie-sanders-fake-news-russia_us_58c34d97e4b0ed71826cdb36

What makes you think Putin wouldn't do it to our economy?

Who do you really think was right on TPP? Obama or Trump? Simple question.

[stuffmatters]

61. I'm with Sherrod Brown and the Dem majority against Fast TrackTPP in Congress

Thanks for the ALECsplaining of TPP.

It's false, false, false to boil TPP down to a ? about Trump vs Obama or Russia vs America; it's an insult to the highly educated & informed Dems who opposed it. So is this news thread after the election which slurs long time Democratic opponents of TPP as somehow stupid dupes of Putin's propaganda during the election.

Why don't you ask yourself why the solid block/ majority support for TPP and Fast Track in Congress was Republican? TPP was pretty much the penultimate dream of the Koch Bros and their ALEC Bill Mill. The fierce opposition to this global corporate coup d'etat in Congress were Dems. TPP was written by global corps for global corps, did you follow the fight at all?

So a better question IMHO for one to ask is who was right on TPP while it was in Congressional process: the majority of Dems in Congress or the Koch Bros Republicans? I was a huge supporter and donor to Obama BUT TPP/Fast Track...absolutely not.


There is no question Bernie opposed Fast Track/ TPP both in Congress and in his campaign, and Clinton apparently evolved during her campaign. Perhaps because she finally processed that the majority of Democratic voters were against it going as had the majority of their Party been during the passage fight in DC.

We have very different opinions and perspectives on this issue. I researched voraciously during the passage fight in Congress and after about Fast Track & TPP. Yes Putin used it LATER as a propaganda tool hoping to sway Bernie voters to Trump,and I'd wager not even a few Berniecrats were as gullible as you assume. Isn't that article by our local retired Fox News senationalist(Mattes) just another entry in post election, divisive Bernie Bashing that still saps the resources and unity for our current battle as Democrats?
Counterproductive to keep it going to say the least.

I simply agree to disagree with you on this. Enuff said. Enjoy your summer!

[VermontKevin]

64. You are arguing two different things.

Fast Track and TPP are two different items. I think it was entirely possible to disagree with the first but still think that addressing currency manipulation in the second was a good idea. Reforming IBDS? Good idea. The article I gave you was from the New York Times, not ALEC.

But you say something very interesting:

We have very different opinions and perspectives on this issue. I researched voraciously during the passage fight in Congress and after about Fast Track & TPP. Yes Putin used it LATER as a propaganda tool hoping to sway Bernie voters to Trump,and I'd wager not even a few Berniecrats were as gullible as you assume. Isn't that article by our local retired Fox News senationalist(Mattes) just another entry in post election, divisive Bernie Bashing that still saps the resources and unity for our current battle as Democrats?
Counterproductive to keep it going to say the least.

Why would you think his propaganda on the TPP was so limited? Putin is capable of multitasking.

As for fake news, do you deny it happened? We are all affected by it.

[Meowmee]

14. Yes

I thought that a while back when reading about all the connections and it was suggested that he was recruited. I think he was already thinking about it before this- he spoke about it at a meeting. I forgot when that was- I'll look for the link.

[Freelancer]

16. They looked into Trumps eyes and saw his soul. (-:

Maybe Trump has a Russian heart, and they resonate.

[blue neen]

17. Yep.

It looks more and more like this was planned for a long time.

[secondwind]

18. Yes. They own him.

He owes hundreds of millions to Russian oligarchs.

[Wounded Bear]

40. That seems fairly obvious to me...

Trump is a wholly owned subsidiary of Putin, Inc.

[arthritisR_US]

19. Yep and I bet Jeb Bush thinks so too. nt

[Egnever]

21. He has been involved with the Russians for years

www.google.com/amp/amp.timeinc.net/fortune/2017/05/17/donald-trump-russia-2/%3Fsource%3Ddam

with NBC’s Lester Holt, “I have had dealings over the years where I sold a house to a very wealthy Russian many years ago. I had the Miss Universe pageant — which I owned for quite a while — I had it in Moscow a long time ago. But other than that, I have nothing to do with Russia.”

The reality, however, is that Trump couldn’t be more wrong. The President has deep Russian connections that far exceed what he admitted to Holt.

[sunonmars]

24. My gut tells me, he's been a Russian "asset" for many years

Probably recruited in the late 70's early 80's. You could probably base a season of "the americans" on him.

[hedda_foil]

38. The Americans series finale: Phillip and Elizabeth Jennings turn American real estate jerk...

They return to Mother Russia with their biggest coup... the perfect Manchurian Candidate, While they are being feted by the KBG, Paige is groped by the American Turncoat, a New York real estate developer of low morals and lower intelligence.

[stuffmatters]

25. Yes.

[RKP5637]

26. Yep! And IMO this is just the tip of the iceberg! n/t

[dalton99a]

29. Probably from the time Malaria hooked up with him

[DonaldsRump]

30. I think it has been said before here...

...but I think many Repubs would go stark raving nuts if it could be shown that there was Russian interference favoring Trump during the primaries that helped knock-out lovely Repub candidates like Cruz, Rubio, Bush III etc.

That would bring it home to a bunch of these folks, both at the candidate level and the voters that supported them.

[Squinch]

32. It's clear that when Trump(R) Jr. got that email, it wasn't the first time he had

heard of it. It was an established thing to him. When he heard that the Russian government was working on behalf of the Trump(R) campaign, he didn't say, "What??? Really???" He said, "I love it."

[Orrex]

33. I kind of assumed that this was a publicly agreed-upon thing.

[mopinko]

35. been saying it for a long time.

[bluedigger]

36. He ain't smart enough to come up with it on his own.

He's punching way out of his weight class for a petty grifter and money launderer. Somebody had to whisper in his ear that it was possible.

[pnwmom]

37. Emin Agalarov, Russia's go-between (cited in the email as conveying the Russian government offer

to Goldstone), has said he was with DT shortly before DT announced he was running for office.

And the Christopher Steele dossier said something about Russia working with him for years.

[Wounded Bear]

39. Would not surprise me in the slightest...

[Mr. Ected]

41. He was already beholden to them as a US citizen

LONG before he became their Crown Jewel of deep cover espionage.

[Blue_Tires]

43. Oh, I've heard more than a couple of people in the know ponder

if the GOP primaries were on the level...

[Act_of_Reparation]

44. Not really, no.

The opportunity was there and they took it.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

46. Considering what I stumbled across on Facebook today....definitely maybe.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029322103

[imanamerican63]

47. How long?

I have a feeling that they where involved with Bush and Gore! They have been around for years!

[0rganism]

48. starting to?

ever since October

[NurseJackie]

49. That makes a lot of sense and helps to explain his bizarre ability to get the GOP nomination too.

[brooklynite]

50. Again, that would be far too strategic for Trump...

He ran because President Obama made fun of him.

[Blue_Roses]

51. No doubt

Here

[Raster]

53. I have believed this from the very first. I remember the story 4 or 5 years ago...

...that Putin* had his eyes on tRump* as the perfect Siberian candidate. And if that is the case, that means that US citizens --even perhaps certain members of Congress-- may have aided and abetted in the efforts to bring tRump* to power.

OH HELL YES!!!

[LiberalArkie]

54. You can either pay us back all the money we have loaned you, run for president,

Or we will kill you, your family, their families, down to your 4th and 5th cousin. It is your choice Donald.

[Leghorn21]

57. Yep. And I'm pretty sure either Semyon Mogilevich or perhaps Felix Sater's father said that directly

to LOSER 45, loud and clear.

Oh HELL yeah, Arkie

[gordianot]

55. Yes and they have recently infiltrated the Republican Party

Trump has been in the works for decades.

[onecaliberal]

56. Yes. I have thought that for a while.

[doc03]

58. There is no doubt in my mind and I think McTurtle and Ryan were also involved. How convenient

for them to refuse to fill a SCOTUS vacancy and say the next president should pick one. They knew the fix was in!!

[matt819]

59. After the revelations of the past few days, yes

It's looking increasingly likely that they were behind it.

I know there are disagreements over the impeachment or 25th amendment action, and many conclude that the buffoon-in-chief is with us for 4 more years (or, horrors, more). But I really think the question has to be asked. If it is proven that the election was fraudulent, and 45 is removed or impeached, it doesn't seem very constitutional for the VP to become 46. If the Russian hacking and meddling resulted in the election of 45 and 45A, then why should 45A, or any other Republican, assume the office? The investigations should/would continue, with the goal of uncovering more treason and corruption. I understand that this is tinfoil hat stuff, but how many times in the past 17 years has stuff considered tinfoil hat stuff here has become news in the MSM later?

[UTUSN]

60. The Siberian Candidate

[hedda_foil]

66. The candidate who came in from the cold?

[H2O Man]

68. !

[triron]

62. Sure am. Bet some money on it.

[DangerousRhythm]

63. There was never a time in the past year

...where I DIDN'T think this, AND I think the primaries were probably messed with too. Remember they were also shown to have invaded the GOP too, but didn't do anything? Well, maybe they did.

I can't wait to see this bastard perp walked.

[H2O Man]

67. No.

Recommended.

I have thought that for some time now.

[TravelingMan]

72. From the start

I would bet he had help at the primaries

[PCIntern]

69. Yes and Melania and General Flynn

Are his control.

[madokie]

70. Hell I've thought that for a long ass time now

tRump and co are dirty as they come and all of them always have been. If they aren't dirty they won't have anything to do with him. Fact!