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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsAbramson: What if the intel dossier DT recieved was kompromat on him, and not HRC?
Seth Abramson has a theory to consider re: the Russian kompromat--that it's actually kompromat about TRUMP, not Clinton, that the Trump's received at that meeting with Junior in June 2016, in exchange for quid pro quo with Russia.
Link to tweet
Edited to add the subsequent thread:
(1) The New York Times now reports that the intel dossier left with Don (that he now can't recall) came from the king of Russian kompromat.
(2) No less than Fox News has noted that if the Trumps received *top-shelf* Clinton kompromat, they would have used it during the campaign.
(3) We know from the Manafort-Priebus call a week before the inauguration that the Kremlin's kompromat on Clinton involves Ukrainian money.
(4) The Trump campaign clearly *had* that kompromatwhich is why Manafort told Priebus to release itbut never used it during the campaign.
(5) Don Jr. received a dossier of intel just *two days* after the Russians were certain the general election would be Trump versus Clinton.
(6) Don Jr. is now lyingper participants in the meetingabout the existence of any such dossier, and POTUS seems to be lying about it too.
(7) It's not clear why Don would go out of his way to hide that the campaign received negative intel about Clinton. POTUS already admits it.
(8) The month of the meeting is the month Chris Steele began investigating the Russian operation to compromise Trump via Kremlin kompromat.
(9) We know Don Jr. lied not just about receiving a dossier, but also about its contentswhich he (falsely) said were "vague and ambiguous."
(10) If Steele is rightthe Kremlin is blackmailing Trumpat some point Putin had to have confronted Trump with a copy of Kremlin kompromat.
(11) The Russian attendees to the June 9th, 2016 meeting are such Russia and Putin loyalists they could be trusted to carry Trump kompromat.
(12) I am neither saying I *know* this is true or even that I necessarily *believe* this is true. But it *must* be one investigatory theory.
(13) It *would* explain the need to hold such a risky general-election meeting at a place controlledand securedby the Trumps themselves.
(14) What I'll say is this: *all indications* are that Trump received a dossier of kompromat, never disclosed it, and is lying about it now.
(15) And the need for such ongoing and spectacular public deceit only makes *sense* if the dossier was damaging to Trump, not Clinton. {end}
(PS) And as I have noted in multiple threads, the two men who set up the meetingAras and Emin Agalarovare known and proven Kremlin agents.
(PS2) And these known and proven Kremlin agents *sent a representative to the meeting* to make sure everything went well and to report back.
(PS3) If the meeting was just to dump a dossier on the Trump campaignnot to *discuss* anything in the dossierit could just be *delivered*.
(PS4) Somehow the Kremlin felt there had to be a gaggle of Putin loyalists *in the room* when Jr, Kushner and Manafort received the dossier.
(PS5) To be clear: perhaps the dossier was *both* files: Trump *and* Clinton kompromat. But some Trump kompromat being included makes sense.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Grins
(7,217 posts)The Noonan Rule: Is it irresponsible to speculate? It would be irresponsible not to.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Chasstev365
(5,191 posts)Pacifist Patriot
(24,653 posts)Shell_Seas
(3,333 posts)Works for the Kremlin? Paid by them? Friends with Putin?
Can I get a hard definition on this?
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Connections. Putin rewards people indirectly- by literally giving them other people's businesses or properties and or lucrative contracts. He doesn't leave a paper trail, but he has enlisted those who are well off to get or pass along information for him too- under threat of losing their assets or promise of gaining some.
Shell_Seas
(3,333 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)If I google them am I going to hit on a lot of RW conspiracy crap involving HRC?
Shell_Seas
(3,333 posts)Hermitage Capital was the company that he got jailed for investigating.
Here is a video from 2009 about them.
And, as we all know now Putin wants the Magnitsky Act removed and his reasoning behind all of this.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Caught you spreading RW bullshit here why?
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-07-12/how-hermitage-capital-ziff-brothers-and-clinton-global-initiative-prompted-trump-jr-
Shell_Seas
(3,333 posts)The Magnitsky Act is in reference to Sergei Magnitsky, he was a civil rights attorney investigating the unlawful seizure of Hermitage Capital in 2007. Russia jailed him, and he died in jail, sparking these human rights sanctions against Russia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Magnitsky
It doesn't surprise me RW media would try and spin it. They are paid by Russia, you know.
Pacifist Patriot
(24,653 posts)The person you are responding to never introduced the RW spin and rightly gave the name of Heritage Capital as an example of Putin's reward system. Maybe I missed something, but I didn't see any reference to Clinton before you introduced it.
Shell_Seas
(3,333 posts)And which I wouldn't. I am/was pro-HRC.
I had just saw a doc that referred to Hermitage Capital as the catalyst for the Magnitsky Act, although I didn't see if Putin was directly involved or not. She seemed like she was knowledgeable about Putin corruption, that's why I asked.
It's ok, though. I think we all are hyper-sensitive online these days, because of the things that have been done over the last few years.
Good vibes.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Am surprised you'd know the name and not how Putins been operating. There's a lot that is known but can never be proven- people stripped of assets, murdered, etc for not going along with his program and others rewarded beyond their wildest dreams for working w Putin. Hard to get a paper trail. One of his opponents who wanted to get word out filmed w drones the fancy compounds that life long civil servants (who have no official way to account for such wealth) live in as reward for helping Putin.
I know there are stories of people literally having their business taken away but it's also hard to prove.
From what I understand is that they can only really track what people are taking out by laundering, as an insurance policy in case the situation in Russia became untenable and they're no longer in Putins favor. Apparently he's always had American contacts trying to keep tabs on these people while they're here to make sure they're loyal. I'd bet anything Trump allowed some of his residents to be bugged on Putins behalf.
Apologies if I offended. MsNBC had a good show two weeks back - forget the guys name but he's doing Friday evenings at 9 or 10 pm. Richard Engle, I think?
Shell_Seas
(3,333 posts)The video, linked above talks about specific people in Russian government, however never mentions Putin.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)In Russia anymore. He chooses who gets to work in business and also the government. But it's run like a mob and we're never going to get emails with his name in it. (Or Donald's)
I'm not sure which video you mean- I linked below to a page where they have clips of Richard Engels special on Putin's Russia. Wish I could find it as a whole piece, it makes more sense that way. But essentially they operate as the mob does, using the taxes and skimmed profit to amass even more power.
http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc-news/watch/putin-regime-marked-by-graft-and-corruption-986645571951
pnwmom
(108,977 posts)to accomplish its goals -- in exchange for various rewards or to avoid negative repercussions.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Shell_Seas
(3,333 posts)Achilleaze
(15,543 posts)for America.
Of course it would suck bigly for the KGOP and colluding anti-American fellow travelers.
Zoonart
(11,860 posts)Proof of kompromat and a warning... do it our way or else? Win/Win...eh, Comrade?
I think the whole lid is going to come off when the feds make the money laundering case.
NightWatcher
(39,343 posts)It was less than the 140 character attention span he holds.
niyad
(113,284 posts)Tatiana
(14,167 posts)I think we should look into this being the case.
Leith
(7,809 posts)It explains a lot of what we know.
It will be interesting to see how events play out. There is most certainly going to be some stuff revealed about what the control that Putin has over PINO is. It could very well be what was in the folder left with tRump's top minions at Trump Tower that day. There could be additional docs that keep rethug lackeys in line.
mainer
(12,022 posts)Which tells me:
1) they have no Kompromat on HRC
2)They were at the meeting for something else.
So your theory is indeed interesting.
NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)the DNC emails that were dumped by wikileaks soon after the meeting?
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)To do things like edit them and leave out dates to reveal such things as "the DNC was sick of Bernie" - that it was in April was the edit - and that betrayed how many people were desperate for this to look bad.
And they also created the channels to make it appear as if it was a big deal. So there's that. As far as I can tell it was a multi prong plan.
pnwmom
(108,977 posts)ProudProgressiveNow
(6,129 posts)murielm99
(30,736 posts)but never laid it out as clearly as you.
byronius
(7,394 posts)Truth is going to be strange, strange, strange.
SJMULE
(193 posts)A 30+ year life and business built ( rebuilt actually) on stolen and laundered Russian mob (oligarch) money looted from the citizens of Russia and the surrounding Eastern block countries. Trump owes everything to them, they own him! That is it in a nutshell.
DallasNE
(7,403 posts)Plus the Trump people have been all over the place in trying to explain the meeting.
To claim it was "vague and ambiguous" and then turn around and say it was about adoption is a contradiction. But even that would be inappropriate because we only have one President at a time and this was 5 months before the election and at a time when Trump was trailing in the polls by about 5%.
The one possibility it could be about Clinton and Ukraine is that it was obviously fake and thus could not be used. Otherwise it would have to be about Trump to make any sense.
I read one report that said the document was left laying on the table when the meeting broke up - which I find odd.
lanlady
(7,134 posts)Kompromat on a high-value target like Trump would scarcely be passed around at a meeting of non-FSB/SVR professionals.
Only Trump himself needs to know the nature of the kompromat; letting others in on the secret increases the risk of its exposure (in which case, it can no longer be used to compromise) or that it will be spun in some way by the target to minimize its impact.
Kompromat on Trump would be one of the most closely-held secrets in the storied history of Russian espionage. The Russians have no history at all of sharing either their methods or the results of those methods with outside parties.
That said, I have no doubts that Putin DOES have the goods on Trump (financial, sexual, and otherwise) but there is no possible way that he would entrust it to low-level operators like Akhmetshin and Veselnitskaya.
Consider instead, for a moment, that Melania might actually be the primary conduit between the SVR and Trump. She absolutely fits the profile of the beaudacious SVR handler that the Russians use time and time again to control their high-value assets. Call me crazy if you will but the more you think on it, the more it makes total sense. It would also explain her complete and utter aversion to publicity (fear of exposure etc etc).
Oh well, it's fun to speculate.
tsuukiyomi
(20 posts)In my entire lifetime, absolutely nothing has blown my mind in the manner that your theory just did.
Well done, lanlady, well done.
lanlady
(7,134 posts)Not even the idea of Wife No 3 being on the payroll of Russian intelligence...
Boris Nemtsov, the Russian opposition leader who was gunned down 2 years ago in full view of the Kremlin, had a term for Putin's political party, United Russia. Nemtsov called it partiya zhulikov i vorov, which means the "party of scoundrels and thieves." I think of the Trump family as familiya zhulikov i vorov. The name really fits