Kaspersky Labs is about to take down everything here, is my bet.

[Eliot Rosewater]

We know Putin has ordered trump to remove sanctions and not sign the bill, if trump signs the bill putin will unleash kaspersky to take down EVERYTHING in this country that Kaspersky is tied to.

Your bank accounts, FDIC, military, electric and energy grids, my assumption is they are tied into much of this, but I am not sure. Maybe someone here has some details on that.

What I am sure of is trump works for putin, but they may have realized trump cant NOT sign the bill for sanctions, so if he signs it expect an all out invasion of America by Kaspersky labs and others, nothing you have is safe.

[Lifelong Protester]

1. It's been nice knowing you!

[Eliot Rosewater]

3. You are right, supporting the D party here is not safe to do, I edited.

WE are not allowed to talk here about HOW we got here, HOW we might be seeing the end of our country, hell, maybe the end of humanity.

[Control-Z]

10. Wow.

What are you taking about? I have no clue.

"...supporting the D party here is not safe to do..."

Where is "here"? What are you trying to say, "not safe"?

[Eliot Rosewater]

12. I cant explain it to you, if I do I will be reported on by certain

progressive folks who have an agenda here to silence people like me who support the D party to the point of NOT demanding purity.

[Warren DeMontague]

202. KABERPNIE SANDERSKY!

I knew it

[beam me up scottie]

203. Right now at Bernie's secret hideaway...

And it's Comrade KABERPNIE SANDERSKY!

[R B Garr]

206. Looks like you are being fragged, hence proving

your OP correct after all. I also didn't see you mention Bernie, hmm.

Well done!

[Warren DeMontague]

221. Hmmm!

[beam me up scottie]

225. HOLY TINFOIL, BATMAN!

That is awesome. I wonder what the reception is like with the added tinfoil? Does the horn help?

We really should stop with the funny stuff, Warren. People are starting to get suspicious, comrade. Er, I mean friend. Apple pie! Elvis! Mustangs! Red white and blue!

Whew, that was close.

Plus that's not how it works. You need to point it away from the sun to receive the alien transmissions.

[R B Garr]

227. You are still proving Eliot right.

[Warren DeMontague]

233. Does that mean I'm a Russian agent?

[R B Garr]

239. It depends.

What are your views on Lithuanian dairy products?

[Warren DeMontague]

240. I like their basketball shirts

but I hold no opinion on their cheese.

[Eliot Rosewater]

229. It is not safe for me to openly discuss support of the D party, I will pm you

[cwydro]

29. Another mystery DU post.

[NastyRiffraff]

171. It's crystal clear to me

As Eliot said, explaining it is dangerous, but I'll try.

"Here" is DU. "Not safe" is because people supporting the Democratic Party are often alerted for doing so.

[BannonsLiver]

11. Oh wow

[leftstreet]

2. What on earth are you talking about? n/t

[Eliot Rosewater]

5. If you really dont know you should educate yourself.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-kasperskylab-probe-idUSKBN1AD2H0

LAS VEGAS (Reuters) - A U.S. congressional panel this week asked 22 government agencies to share documents on Moscow-based cyber firm Kaspersky Lab, saying its products could be used to carry out "nefarious activities against the United States," according to letters seen by Reuters.

[RKP5637]

144. Thanks for the link! n/t

[Squinch]

8. Check out Richard Engel's show from Friday. It'll blow your mind.

[R B Garr]

15. Darn it, I missed it. Is that the segment he's been doing on MSNBC?

I know he's been in Russia lately.

[Squinch]

22. I don't know. Haven't seen that. I just checked and it will be rerun

from 8 to 9 tonight on MSNBC in my area. Check if it's in yours. It's called Richard Engel On Assignment. Originally aired 7/28.

[R B Garr]

33. Thank you so much! I will be looking for it now.

[Squinch]

39. It's really worth watching.

[Danascot]

143. Here's a 6:45 segment from 7/28

I don't know if it has the whole story.

The full 44 min broadcast is available on the msnbc site but you need to have a TV provider ID & password to access it.

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/watch/richard-engel-7-28-17-episode

[PunkinPi]

34. Here's a link to Friday's On Assignment re. Kaspersky...

Last edited Sun Jul 30, 2017, 01:55 PM - Edit history (1)

http://www.msnbc.com/onassignment

[R B Garr]

37. WOW, thank you!

Awesome.

[PunkinPi]

48. you're welcome. nt

[RKP5637]

70. Thanks for the link! n/t

[octoberlib]

134. Here's the link

http://www.msnbc.com/onassignment

[kerry-is-my-prez]

158. Don't know if I dare. My mind has already been blown up........

[Hoyt]

131. Latest conspiracy theory. Similar to bush era, "terror, terror, terror," except aimed at Ruskies.

[demmiblue]

4. ...

Another trashed thread.

[Achilleaze]

6. thanks republicans

you and your ignoble republican Draft-Dodger-in-Chief, foul-mouthed Comrade Casino, have really screwed over America. Hang your heads in disgrace.

[Eliot Rosewater]

7. I always wondered why a russian based internet security company was so popular here

We really fucked up big time, in so many ways.

And by the way folks, Putin is not going to allow you to own your land, you need to be prepared for that, he might let you stay in the house but the land is his.

dumbshits

[R B Garr]

9. Yeah, basically an "anti-virus" from Moscow is the actual virus.

Load it on your computer(s) so we can keep track of you. Truly scary stuff from the Russian mafia.

[Eliot Rosewater]

13. Why isnt it a BIG discussion here at DU?

[R B Garr]

14. Maybe it hasn't gotten enough exposure.

My hubby was just talking about this last night. He has known of that anti-virus software for awhile. A lot of the connections are just recently being exposed (in the last few months, anyway) to the general public. Maybe an OP with links like to the Reuters article would be good -- and some background. This is a huge story and needs exposure.

[Achilleaze]

23. .

[Squinch]

25. After watching that Richard Engel show, I took it off my computer, but

I have no confidence that it didn't already embed whatever it wanted within my system. And I wouldn't be surprised if they had ways to spread their stuff into my other computers through shared files.

[MuseRider]

52. I learned about it here when someone told me it would be good

to use. I hated it, mainly because I could not do more than 2 things without it pinging me 100 times over and over. I am not smart enough to use those kinds of programs. I took it off and when I heard about this I thought about how I had learned about it here. It has been off my system for over a year and never on my new computer so I feel safe. Just yesterday I got a email from them, warning me about not being covered (I am ) and wanting me to sign back in and install it again (I did not).

[Squinch]

53. People laugh when I say this, but I am considering going back to the 90's lifestyle: paper

statements, cash purchases made in person, financial accounts managed over the phone and through the mail. I'll change my account numbers and keep a dedicated credit card solely for online purchases and be very sparing with what I put on the net going forward.

I know that what is already out there is probably enough to hack my life away from me, but it's the best I can think to do.

[MuseRider]

65. I too have thought about that

but my husband will forever be the "easiest way to do things" kinda guy no matter what. I do a lot of things the old way as I get older because for many reasons there are good reasons that they are better than the newer ways. They are definitely safer but also definitely more difficult or time consuming. It drives me crazy having everything on a cloud or online. One good solar storm and we are all going to be lost. LOL, prepared in part for that too. Not out of paranoia but because we live away from town and I just kinda like being ready for a big storm or flood so we don't have to go out and eat the grass with our goats. Ya know? You can do most everything with paper but your bank won't and that is where they are going to get you anyway. We are very creative but stupid and lazy creatures. Brilliant ideas but never any follow through. Remember when we decided nuclear power plants were the bees knees but we did not know what to do with the waste but we decided to do it anyway because we would think of something before we needed it? Yeah.

[Squinch]

69. That's a good analogy. This has the potential, I think, to be pretty nuclear. In many ways.

[RKP5637]

152. Looks like KS will finally be rid of Brownback! Guess he's promoted to doing damage

internationally.

[MuseRider]

170. You can imagine the delight and joy

and again much anger since this was announced. Now we will be saddled with Colyer, almost like going from Trump to Pence I think. SO, if elections are as messed up here as we think they are will will probably end up with Colyer or Kobach as our next governor. You know how stubborn that R is here and how easy it is to talk people out of looking at the evil D side. As hard as we have worked (not me, I have done only a little (tiny bit) of his huge job and that remains underground thankfully) we may not quite be ready for this one. I hope we are, I know we are close.

This fake assed Christian will hopefully be seen for what he is elsewhere. He means the good parts of Christianity for himself, his close friends and his family, the rest of us get the crap part, the part that he assigns to us lesser humans and when you speak up he calls you a snowflake in that cruel, shark-eyed way of his. He is an incredibly horrible, mean and nasty person but you know this.

[RKP5637]

195. I think Trump wants the US to have the problems KS has had. OMG Brownback unleashed internationally.

He is the personification of evilness plus being an incredibly horrible, mean and nasty person. He's VERY creepy! Yet another embarrassment to the US under Trump.

[defacto7]

113. Wise

[Gabi Hayes]

122. Pretty much where I am now

Lots of Ludd

Shoes for industry!

[wasupaloopa]

55. Just what the blazes is on your computer that Putin wants? Do you own a CIA computer or something?

Maybe he wants you ebooks or something.

If Putin is after your personal information I doubt he would go one computer at a time.

[Squinch]

60. Might you be being a little short sighted here? Can you see how a million or so people like

me, denied access to our accounts and communication, might cause some trouble for the US?

Can you see how store chains, denied access to supply sources could be a problem? Like grocery stores and gas stations, perhaps?

He could win a war with the flip of a switch before we even knew we were in it.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

162. Don't people here do online banking? Buy stuff online with their credit cards?

[R B Garr]

77. Why did Putin want my vote?

It's just lil' ol' me.

[defacto7]

116. He doesn't have to..

You are everywhere like the rest of us... in bulk.

[defacto7]

118. It's not about our puny little stuff...

It's about using your computer in mass with other computers on a network of bots that can disrupt life as we know it everywhere. It ain't CT anymore. I've been warning about this for a decade or more.

[Skidmore]

61. How do you find if it is on your computer to get tid of it?

[Squinch]

63. It's an antivirus program. Like an idiot, I put it on years ago.

At the time, a friend asked me, "Do you think that's wise?" I scoffed at her. I'm a dope.

[Skidmore]

98. So you would have

had to actively install it? I used to use Noton and now use Webroot.

[Squinch]

103. Yes. And though I took it off, I'm not adept enough to know if it left something behind that could

hurt me.

[defacto7]

127. Sorry, no way to really know unless you are an expert.

Get new equipment. Things can also be imbedded in your hardware. I've been warning people for years and it take being on the verge of crisis to get attention to the mistakes governments, municipalities and corporations have made concerning computer safety/ personal safety.
I'm just about to say it's up to every individial now to protect themselves. The time where we could have effected protection for all is probably over. But we fight on.

[mitch96]

188. "anti-virus" from Moscow

Oxymoron.......
m

[NutmegYankee]

18. No foreign power is going to be able to take land from the people of the USA.

It's the most heavily armed civilian population in the world - the losses to guerilla activity would be unsustainable.

[Eliot Rosewater]

19. Do you own land?

[NutmegYankee]

20. Yes. And buildings on that land. nt

[Eliot Rosewater]

21. Prove it.

Play along, I have a point to make.

The only reason you own land is there is a government document saying so



http://www.gq.com/story/steve-bannon-shadow-president

Steve Bannon, Donald Trump and Vlad Putin are all on record wanting to eliminate that government.

“I’m a Leninist,” Bannon proudly proclaimed.
Shocked, I asked him what he meant. “Lenin,” he answered, “wanted to destroy the state, and that’s my goal too. I want to bring everything crashing down, and destroy all of today’s establishment.” Bannon was employing Lenin’s strategy for Tea Party populist goals. He included in that group the Republican and Democratic Parties, as well as the traditional conservative press.

There is a trump quote about this also.

Wont take much to go from your piece of paper saying you own something, to that piece of paper being meaningless, at which point you will have to use guns to keep the land, that you will ultimately not keep, their guns are bigger.

[cwydro]

26. I own land too.

Whatever are you on about?

[Eliot Rosewater]

27. See 21

In addition to my response, just google "trump wants to eliminate government" and see how much he has done and wants to do, but he is on record, long before being president, as wanting what Bannon wants

[NutmegYankee]

32. They can have my land when I'm dead.

Until then...

[Eliot Rosewater]

35. I get that, but do you acknowledge what I am saying is possible?

Did you read my long response?

I am not trying to be an asshole, I am trying to make it clear that we must NOW react to everything as if we are OUT of time.

[NutmegYankee]

38. Not really - such an event would cause instant civil war.

[defacto7]

83. And that could be quite a useful tool those who actually want chaos.

[muriel_volestrangler]

54. Did you really think there was some entity other than the state that rules on ownership?

This is basic "what is society?" stuff. Courts are what ultimately make decisions on who owns disputed land (or moveable objects). Who did you think did? The UN? God?

[Squinch]

71. And when the state looks into its computer records, they will say that the poster does not own his

land. The state records show that he sold it to a guy named Vlad a year ago. And then his bank records show that the poster received the money for the sale and spent it.

And you are right. This IS basic "what is society" stuff. Which is why it is potentially so devastating.

[muriel_volestrangler]

73. No, the point is that it's the state that's going to rule, and Eliot thinks the state is about to

end. It's not about computer records (if a court in a functioning state sees that a series of unbelievable computer transactions have taken place, and the records look unbelievable, then the court won't believe them). Eliot is saying the end of the USA is nigh. And he thinks the most important thing about that is that no-one will rule on who owns what land. Actually, the basic functions like physical safety are more important.

[Squinch]

74. How about if they look believable? What makes you think they would be discernable?

If someone decided to put a wrench in our works through our computer systems, there is no reason to believe that they could not cause untold damage, destroy the underpinnings of our economic system, and bring us to a screeching halt.

I don't know exactly what that would look like as it went. Maybe the courts would be able to handle the resulting chaos. Maybe the courts would be rendered impotent and Eliot's scenario is the right one.

[muriel_volestrangler]

106. Then you get to not pay your property taxes for a bit

while you have an awful argument in a court, in which the hackers will have to make it crystal clear who they are. And when they've done that, and had to construct a story with a straight face about how you decided to sell this land which there would be no reason to but stayed living on it, then they are the ones who will be more at risk of arrest than you. For it to be a problem for you, they have to actually physically remove you from your house, and you can only do that if you're credible to the local police. And then they would have to work out a way of actually profiting from your absence.

Which is why no hacker is going to try and make their millions from altering real estate records. You need to be an established bank to do anything like that. An email from [e-mail] is not going to get you evicted by the police.

[Squinch]

110. And if there were a hundred thousand of us having the same issue, could you see

how it would create some problems for the system?

As for "you need to be an established bank to do anything like that," you mean like Deutshe Bank? Or as a poster pointed out above, like the way the banks did it to thousands of homeowners during the mortgage crisis, evicting them and/or selling their homes right out from under their butts for no apparent reason?

[muriel_volestrangler]

117. It's an incredibly convoluted way to create some problems

Yes, Deutsche Bank is an established bank. Yes, banks 'did it', because they did already have an involvement with the properties (except the occasional one where the wrong address was used; but that's the point - you have to be a real entity with credibility for the police to take your word that you've got the title to a property and that the people living there should be evicted).

If a hundred thousand had the same issue, it would be blindingly obvious it had been a hack. That's no way to get control of property in any way that you can profit from it. It would be like having a really good quality billion dollar note. No-one would believe it.

Look, this whole thread is silly hysteria. It's no way to have a realistic discussion about computer viruses of hacking. No-one is going to wake up and say "oh, this computer says Rosneft now owns a hundred thousand homes in the USA, I guess it must be true". And the problems it would cause would be far fewer than just stopping various computer systems from working. Real estate transactions are not the lifeblood of a society.

Pointless arguing about it - I was just curious to see if the thread starter actually thought that there was some entity other than the state that rules on ownership of property.

[MiddleClass]

153. Mr Bowder, thought that when the left investment company in Moscow in 2004

He own the largest foreign investment company in Moscow when he got on the plane,

when it tried to come back, Vladimir Putin owns the largest foreign investment company in Moscow.

I wouldn't say it's overblown, I would say holy ship, now it's too late

[muriel_volestrangler]

156. And the Russian state did not fall. The theft worked because it was in control.

Putin didn't steal with computer hacking. He did it by controlling the courts and police, and keeping them functioning as he wanted.

[MiddleClass]

161. And, what if his idea is just to tie up the whole economy

He saw the opportunity to take over control of everything in Russia, what if it just wants to sow chaos and while we're searching titles, informing title insurance companies, the systems are overloaded… Too specific.

While America looks like a monkey fucking a football. He decides to do something else like attack Poland, or North Korea decides to send one of their missiles towards Hawaii, Alaska, San Fran?

[muriel_volestrangler]

166. Then he wouldn't do it with ownership claims of obvious assets

If you want to tie up an economy, go for payment systems, email, utilities, fuel distribution, food distribution ... these have immediate effects. Being unable to search title information is inconvenient, but hardly the end of civilisation.

[RKP5637]

147. Given the right systems, data location and the will IMO it could be done. And, do people

still really trust banks? Ours is a system prime for chaos given the right conditions. I think far too many Americans are way too naive.

[R B Garr]

75. This looks accurate. The default position would be the bank owns the land,

which then goes to ---who owns the banks...

Even the latest mortgage meltdown proved that to be accurate.

[defacto7]

95. Oh, could be much more subtle...

A notice in the mail... sorry you missed your payment this month.

Next month... you are now 60 days over due. If you don't want further action....

Next month... you are 90 days over due, legal proceedings on forclosure.......

Next month... Sheriff's notice on door.

... and you've made those payments... data is data, it's on a computer somewhere, it can be made to say anything someone wants it to say.

Point is... we need to secure our property and cash.. off line.. if that matters to one. It ain't easy. Lots more details but hopefully people get the drift.

[Squinch]

99. I agree that we need to secure property, but I don't exactly know how to go about it.

What would your first steps be?

[defacto7]

111. First step...

Get copies of all records at the courthouse concernig your properties as well as everything you can get on surrounding properties. Make photo copies of the originals... no computer readouts, all hard copies including signatures and ownership history going as far back as is available. Plus all court documents on loans, leans, etc.
Put them in a safe place, one copy off the premises, one copy to your lawyer. This is a good first step.
Continuing the first step, compare and look for discrepancies and settle them.
Now you have records on paper you can use that would be hard to dispute if it came to court and the computer evidence didn't match.
We basically have to wean ourselves off digital.
Step two... be vigilant, whatever that means to you.

[Squinch]

115. Thank you. I'm going to do this.

[7962]

123. No foreign power os going to bring troops to this country.

"They" very well could try to knock out the electrical grid, and if that happens a city will be the last place you want to be. It will turn into savagery in a matter of days

[Squinch]

126. Then cut out the supply chain for groceries, and the transportation system, etc.

[defacto7]

139. Won't need to. They create the conflict, we provide the chaos...

They pick up the cash, business, economic control without but a few minor assassinations. They don't care about your land in the short run, only political and economic control. Internal conflict between ourselves allows that to happen.

[Squinch]

28. Sorry. All your documents have been erased. You have no proof of

ownership. Someone else owns that land and can prove it with a raft of paper. So sorry!

And that gun in your hand? I lulzed.

[Eliot Rosewater]

30. But that could NEVER happen, right?

just google "trump cant win election"

to be fair, he didnt , but you know

[Squinch]

31. No! Surely not! It matters not a bit that it has ALREADY happened in Ukraine! It could NEVER happen!

[defacto7]

101. Hell, it's happened here!

During the bank crisis. Records of ownership, contracts, loan records... poof. People lost their homes, equity, properties resold.... for some that was their armageddon. But it passed, and some recouped and others died. But that was during a rather easy crash...

[Squinch]

102. Oh, God, yes. How could I forget?

[NutmegYankee]

36. Hey, at least I would resist.

It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees. - Emiliano Zapata

And yes, I took an Oath that I intend to keep.

[Squinch]

41. The guy who took your land and your buildings is a thousand miles away from you.

What are you going to resist with your gun? Exactly who are you going to shoot?

[NutmegYankee]

44. Possession is 9/10ths of the law.

However, land is normally controlled by town/county level under State Governments.

[Squinch]

50. In my neighborhood, a tiny little dam was found to have been hacked by Iranians.

They took over the regulation system. No one can figure out what they wanted with hacking this little neighborhood dam that was of little use to anyone, but they did it.

What makes you think Russian hackers, among the best in the world, couldn't get at your state government systems?

And about possession? You don't own it any more. The state records prove it. The new owners are within their rights to bring down the full weight of the American legal and, if necessary, criminal justice system to evict you. You're a dirty, lawless squatter now.

[NutmegYankee]

82. And that last part is the fantasy.

People are going to know something wrong happened. The town tax records (hard paper) will show me as the owner, and my local constabulary isn't going to kick me out. My neighbors know who owns what. People are not going to forget the order of society overnight.

[Squinch]

84. Your town tax records are not computerized? Must be a very small town.

And what your neighbors think they know has no bearing on anything. Your neighbors don't know what you might have transacted without their knowledge (or in this case, without your own knowledge.)

[NutmegYankee]

86. New England is mostly small towns - no county gov in Connecticut

Hell, we use a resident state trooper system for police.

[Squinch]

90. OK, but your town tax records are kept on paper?

[NutmegYankee]

97. Both, but the permanent copy is on paper.

[Squinch]

100. You realize that's unusual, right?

[NutmegYankee]

108. No, I didn't.

But it wouldn't surprise me that my town is backward.

[defacto7]

136. Actually it's not unusual for then to have the hard copies.

But it's changing. That's why you need to get copies and protect them. Court houses have burned down and digital is even more impermanent.

[RKP5637]

150. Possibly a test case. n/t

[cwydro]

80. I have paper deeds for my lands.

Tax records etc.

All in a paper file.

[Squinch]

81. Many people don't. That's the point. The paperless world has created vulnerabilities.

[NutmegYankee]

85. I also have the paper deed. Yet people here claim that doesn't matter.

Hell, the local government has the records of sale and taxes on hard copy file. You can't hack a signed piece of paper.

[cwydro]

88. Yes indeed.

And my lawyer has copies as well. Also the bank.

But hey, don't interrupt a good old DU panic!

[defacto7]

141. It can change at the government offices without warning.

I check every year now. Mistakes happen as well as civic rules or lien changes. Keep up to date and protect the hard copies off property.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

107. Wouldn't they have to take over the county recorder of deeds?

[Squinch]

112. How did it happen when the problem arose

during the mortgage crisis of banks selling people's homes after having erroneously listed them as delinquent? Did that require taking over any county recorders?

[Hassin Bin Sober]

119. How many of those stuck?

Sure you can file a foreclosure action and not notify the owner.

You can even send some thugs over to kick the door in and evict the owners.

But when it comes down to it, the hard signed document at the recorder of deeds is what prevails. People filing bogus actions and hiring sloppy enforcers end up paying damages.

[Squinch]

124. How many would stick if someone was putting false documents into the system? Those were

mostly actual mistakes. What if it were done intentionally?

[Hassin Bin Sober]

132. Maybe I'm not invested in this thread as I should be to discuss it.

What are we talking about here? Hordes of Russians descending on land title offices around the country to steal our property? And do what with it?

[Squinch]

135. No. Really what we are talking about, which got off into that tangent, is the fact that we are a

nation in which a lot of the personal and business and government computers use a Russian originated anti-virus program. That program was developed by a guy who, on a recent interview, said he was trained by the KGB and is a good friend of Putin's.

Those computers are everywhere, in all aspects of our society. The access through all those computers that the anti-virus program has could wreak havoc on the American system simply at a nod from Putin.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

140. Ok. I agree cyber terrorism/war is a real thing.

I just don't agree they will be able to erase property ownership.

If anything, they would be more likely to rat fuck the electronic mortgage registration.

[Squinch]

210. Wouldn't that erase clear ownership of property?

[Hassin Bin Sober]

213. No. The deed hard copy stays recorded with the county. So does the original mortgage.

What transfers over the internets is the right to collect payments and enforce the mortgage.

Ownership doesn't transfer like that. Well neither should the right to collect payments but that's a different story.

[Squinch]

214. And isn't the transfer of the right to collect payments the thing that muddied the ownership

of all those mortgages and the payments received during the mortgage crisis, causing people to be evicted or told they no longer owned their homes?

[Hassin Bin Sober]

215. No. Ownership wasn't muddled.

You are trying to shoe-horn some completely different problem to fit this silly scenario dreamed up by, who again?

As fucked up as those bogus foreclosures were, they took teams of boots on the ground to run these mistakes through the grinder. A grinder that was staffed with overwhelmed courts and judges. A grinder that was operated by unethical foreclosure plaintiff's attorneys and unethical process servers (which led to unknowing homeowners) and enabled by rubber stamp Sheriffs.

Your silly scenario makes about as much sense as trump's cries of hordes of Mexicans being bussed from state to state to swing an election.

Nonsense.

I really don't think you are grasping the concept of a recorded deed of ownership. Here:

[R B Garr]

216. Ha, post 215 is basically admitting that hordes of

people were trying to defraud homeowners. And then calls your post "silly". Maybe he didn't realize how much he basically agreed with you.

And you are right--part of the game was to not acknowledge payments so they could claim default status on the homeowner.

[Squinch]

226. That's what it seems like to me!

[MiddleClass]

157. The real Y2K type of threat

[NutmegYankee]

121. The banks often lost those cases.

The person with paper signed documents wins in nearly every case.

[cwydro]

181. Thank you.

This thread is surreal.

[R B Garr]

196. The Obama Administration/U.S. Government had a mortgage assistance

program to help homeowners because the banks were preying on them, so this really isn't true. Mnuchin, himself, ran a fraudulent operation to scam homeowners out of their houses. It is not surreal to look at the scams of the mortgage meltdown. Lots of people lost their homes.

Other than that, I wasn't really thinking of this much detailed paperwork that might be at risk, just the overall threat that this software poses to unsuspecting people.

[7962]

125. Jesus this is turning into "InfoWars" territory.

you know, Alex jones will sell you a lot of survival food so you're ready when the foreigners invade

[Squinch]

128. You've just compared me to Alex Jones. Would you like to take that back?

[7962]

130. Conspiracy theories are what they are. And I said Alex would gladly sell you food.

You do know that the people with all the money also own property? And that they arent going to allow property rights to be taken away?
Now if you want to talk about reality, refer to my post about the power grid

[Squinch]

133. If you aren't going to delete the post comparing me to Alex Jones, I'll have to put you on ignore.

Bye now.

[7962]

138. Ha. Enjoy. Life with no criticism is great.

[NutmegYankee]

148. As for your lulz - the original scenario I had was a foreign invasion.

Since the OP wasn't clear about what the hell he was talking about at first.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

160. I guess the people who have nothing will be in the best shape. They know how to survive on

nothing. It's the fat cats who will be screwed. "Help! my $50,000,000 mansion is gone, how do I get by without my 20 maids/household staff?" Divine justice for the greedy/wealthy.

[Ilsa]

205. I think it was standard/ included in some PC company's

Shipments of PCs people ordered.
"Oh look, they shipped us some anti-virus software with my new laptop!"

[Calista241]

232. It's because Norton, McAfee and others are bloated, poorly designed resource hogs. N/t

[WinkyDink]

16. I think the OP could be a wee bit clearer. I mean, I get the Kaspersky-avoidance stuff. But not the

"DU" part.

[Eliot Rosewater]

17. My bad, I assumed everyone here knew already

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-kasperskylab-probe-idUSKBN1AD2H0

This is a putin company, they are anti virus running in many of the systems you use or sources you use are connected to.

I assumed it was well known here.

If your bank uses it, and they might, if you use it, and you might, you are now connected to and controlled in part by putin, your system is

And it is my understanding many of our federal and state operations USE this security.

This is a NIGHTMARE.

[Eliot Rosewater]

24. Agreed, i took that out, this is more important right now than the

other big problem.

[R B Garr]

43. Don't worry, it's clear what you're getting at and why you can't

articulate fully what you are eluding to. Certain believers don't acknowledge the Russia connections because it doesn't support preferred talking points. They support a blackout on anything Russian because it is deemed irrelevant, which is also what some RW believers also say. In the meantime, the true world oligarchs and Russian mafia have installed themselves in our democracy in countless ways.

[Eliot Rosewater]

47. I was just responded to with a "meh" about kaspersky, from a DU poster

with lots of posts.

I think the infiltration is too deep here, I think the owners of this board need to do something.

It is clear that if I cant promote the party here by reminding people what happened in the past, and that they cant do it again,then we will lose and all is lost.

[R B Garr]

62. Saw that. It's weird how some aspects of "capitalism" are given a pass

if it supports certain world views. But this is way beyond competition between companies. Yikes.

[WinkyDink]

91. WTH? WHO ON DU, for real, DOUBTS THE RUSSIA CONNECTION?? Do you not read all the pro-Rachel, pro-

O'Donnell, and pro-Engel posts??

[Hassin Bin Sober]

182. Oh nooooo. Not a meh!!!

[Turbineguy]

194. But any sort of malware could be detected by

other anti-virus or anti malware systems.

It's a very competitive field.

I use one brand and then periodically sweep with others.

[Marengo]

228. Infiltration by who?

[WinkyDink]

87. If I said it's not clear to me, how are you presuming to argue that particular point?

[R B Garr]

93. Yes, and that's the thing. It really can't be made clear without probable alerts,

but I understand what Eliot was saying in my post #43. Russia is not considered a "thing" by certain RW and LW believers, so any alarm bells about Russian connections are discounted. In reality, Russia marches on with their cyber wars and more.

[WinkyDink]

92. "They support a blackout on anything Russian" ---LINK, IF YOU CAN, WHICH YOU CANNOT.

[R B Garr]

94. LOL, just a quick look at that JPR website supports that AND MORE!

And that's just for starters. Nice try.

[m-lekktor]

149. you had to go outside DU to find an example.

speaking of nice try..

[R B Garr]

159. LOL, right. Because no outside links are ever alerted.

Speaking of nice try, also.

[beam me up scottie]

179. Shhhh. You've already said too much, comrade.

* Disclaimer: this is sarcasm, the poster I'm responding to is a friend.

[leftstreet]

40. Meh. Sounds like a possible clash of competitors to me

Looks like they've been instrumental in identifying cyber threats to governments worldwide, partnering with firms from Microsoft to Symantec

Kaspersky Lab’s Global Research and Analysis Team (GReAT) was established in 2008.[76] It investigates cybersecurity threats and other work by malware operations.[77] IT security companies are often evaluated by their ability to uncover previously unknown viruses and vulnerabilities.[78] Kaspersky's reputation for investigating cyber-security threats has been influential in gaining international sales and prestige.[78][79] Beginning around 2010, Kaspersky exposed a series of government-sponsored cyber-espionage and sabotage efforts. These include Stuxnet, Duqu, Flame, Gauss, Regin and the Equation Group.[77][80] According to WIRED, "many of them [were] seemingly launched by the US and its UK and Israeli allies. Kaspersky is especially well-known for its work uncovering Stuxnet and Flame."[35]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaspersky_Lab#Controversy

It actually makes me wonder what they may have discovered about Russian hacking into US elections that no one wants to hear about

[Eliot Rosewater]

42. Yikes, speechless.

[BamaRefugee]

57. MAKE AMERICA *GReAT* AGAIN....

[Squinch]

66. Did you see the part about where Kaspersky himself, in the interview, said he was in KGB training

from a young age? And was close to Putin personally today?

[Jimbo101]

45. a couple of weeks ago Kaspersky announced they were launching Free Antivirus

easy to see why

"Kaspersky Launches Its Free Antivirus Software Worldwide"

Slashdot

Engadget

[Eliot Rosewater]

51. It is Putin, for sure. Very bad news.

[R B Garr]

56. That's amazing.

They are really playing us.

[highplainsdem]

209. To add to their free anti-ransomware and free password manager

[wasupaloopa]

46. So are we going to be safe if we remove the sanctions and don't add anymore?

You know Russia's economy is about the size of one of our states?

Putin has to kill people to stay in power.

He could not possibly handle all of our institutions and property and infrastructure. Hell even Trump can't do anything and he is "president" .

All this Russian crap will be gone when Trump and Putin are gone.

Trump probably owes is soul to Putin and when it is clear Trump is impotent and can't do anything for Putin, he will get dumped on the ash-heap of history.


"The only thing we have to fear is fear itself" FDR

[Eliot Rosewater]

49. Ahh yes, the ole "the russia thing isnt really a thing"

bye now

[wasupaloopa]

58. You know I have been on this board longer than most people here under different names. I have seen

tons of OP's like yours.

What gives you away is that you reply to everyone on the tread.

[Eliot Rosewater]

59. Gives me away?

What exactly does that mean?

Be specific.

What I am guilty of, surely, is over reacting to situations because I am very angry about what people said about my candidate last year, and that the results of that is possibly the end of the human race.

But before you imply I am anything other than a patriot who supports FULLY the Democratic Party, you might want to read me.

[wasupaloopa]

105. you imply I am anything other than a patriot who supports FULLY the Democratic Party

yes

[Me.]

76. Why Different Names?

[R B Garr]

78. lol, that is an interesting way to confront someone, isn't it??

[Me.]

96. Incognito?

[Sissyk]

197. Read the name.

Was upaloopa.

FYI - lots of long-time members had trouble coming back after the hacks due to old email addresses.

[Me.]

200. Got It

[emulatorloo]

89. So you have multiple sock puppets?

"What gives you away is that you reply to everyone on the tread."

Replying to people on a thread you've started is sort of the point of a discussion board.

Curious, what do you believe Eliot's post "give away"?

[Me.]

201. Agree

Replying to people on a thread you've started is sort of the point of a discussion board

[Kablooie]

64. If Kaspersky took everything down they would immediately go completely out of business.

They are a respected computer security company. This isn't to say that it wouldn't be a good idea to replace Kaspersky with a different virus protection program but I don't think a bold take over of computers in the US would be a win for Putin. There would be too many adverse consequences. this would be essentially an act of war not a slap on the wrist for Trump.

[Progressive dog]

67. I doubt it

They'd get one try to install malware through Kaspersky updates. It would be obvious to any IT person where the malware came from and computers using other security software wouldn't be any more vulnerable than they are now.
If I were using Kaspersky software, I would replace it, not because Russia will declare war on us, but because the software is linked to the Putin regime.

[Eliot Rosewater]

68. Ok, you doubt the war part, but you agree to replace, sigh, thanks for that at least

[RKP5637]

72. Use Linux, no worries, but of course millions could be affected with antivirus app. So, none

left to talk to, even if clean.

[Egnever]

129. Linux is a completely false sense of security

https://www.google.com/amp/www.zdnet.com/google-amp/article/stack-clash-vulnerabilities-rip-root-holes-in-linux-systems/

It is riddled with vulnerabilities the only thing protecting it is it's minimal install base.

Pretending you are safe because you use Linux is whistling past the graveyard.

[RKP5637]

142. Thanks...

"The best we can do now is upgrade the kernel to a patched version."

[revmclaren]

79. Had Kaspersky on one if my cell phones.

Replaced it when I found out about the Putin connection.

[rzemanfl]

104. One would think the intelligence community would have warned Congress to go easy

on Russia until the vulnerabilities had been assessed and dealt with. Of course this is Trumpist Dumbfuck Whatthefuckistan so who knows?

[SHRED]

109. That would be a terrible business move

Unless they don't care about going out of business or morph into something else.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

165. Exactly.

[Takket]

114. i just removed Kaspersky from my home computers yesterday

I hated doing it. it was an efficient and effective security program, but Rachel had info on their ties to Russian security and I just don't trust that if Put in gets mad enough he might have some kill switch embedded in the program activated to unleash havoc on anything in the US running it.

So purged it out of my system and installed a new security suite yesterday.

[dalton99a]

145. There should be a website or YouTube to show people how to uproot Kaspersky

a website that is NOT kaspersky.com

[MiddleClass]

120. I have to bet, pray, states and companies take corrective action to make sure they are Kaspersky fre

That was just on spec. It's a documented issue that may or not be true, either way criminal malpractice not to protect yourself.

I was horrified when Microsoft said they were not going to support Windows XP anymore, exposing that most of the banks were using that operating system. I just hope Microsoft updates filled the security hole.

I am horrified that there are rumors that states, federal, and corporate were considering a foreign cyber security Corporation, whether it be Russian or not. Corporations are loyal to profit, people are loyal to country

[Eliot Rosewater]

168. we are at war, kaspersky appears to be part of the war machine of our enemy

This thread is exposing interesting responses, I will say that much

Thanks for your mature response.

[peacebuzzard]

137. Richard Clarke predicted cyber invasions and disruptions years ago.

Like a time bomb waiting for the circumstances.
I certainly agree on the current, past and future occurrences, and upcoming damages will be extensive.
It is wise to prepare as much as we can.

[defacto7]

146. Prepare and be aware....That's all that matters on this topic.

[peacebuzzard]

151. While having a backup plan is necessary

It will not help too much if the target is the financial industry that relies heavily and completely with online deposits and accounts. It would be mayhem.
Latin America is somewhat of an example (Venezuela, Brazil), although not a virtual online example, of delayed payments to certain sectors. It caused great distress, hunger, desperation, homelessness to thousands. In the US it will directly impact immediately those dependent on monthly
Pay checks and no savings.

[defacto7]

163. This is true...

So we try to be prepared for anything. The US is no longer a protected island. We still have some safeguards but not in the digital world. We allowed it to happen because of a complacent attitude and lack of self reliance. We got stupid, but that's human history.

[Eliot Rosewater]

167. This thread is exposing russian bots or agents. I used to laugh at people who would

say such a thing, but now it is real.

[peacebuzzard]

176. The election hacking exposed a minute example of our vulnerabilities

A tsunami multi-system failure is a looming reality.
When WWII happened the US was a busy sleeping giant.
History does repeat itself; this nation is currently distracted and off guard.
A perfect storm.

[R B Garr]

185. Yes, it is real. I keep seeing people in my government and the national press

talking about it. Only on some radio shows on RUSSIAN TV and some believers since 2015 are laughing about it, which is ironic as all heck.

[Goonch]

154. Kaspersky

[GulfCoast66]

155. Oh no!!

Does this mean Putin can steal my porn??

About as likely as all the CT things in this thread...

[Squinch]

211. The Russian conspiracy is a fact, not a theory. Now we're just speculating on what

form it will ultimately take.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

164. Unadulterated nonsense.

The sky is . . . yawning.

[beam me up scottie]

175. That sounds just like something THEY would say. The proper response is panic.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

189. Call me Chicken Medium.

The sky is pretty much still there.

Although I would die defending peoples' right
to live in a constant state of self-imposed anxiety,
I don't recommend it for myself, because I've
tried it, I didn't like it, and I finally stopped blaming
other people for it and decided to try to change my
way of thinking instead. A work in progress.

[Warren DeMontague]

236. I kinda think using Kapersky now would be like eating at Jack in the Box right after an e-coli event

It's understandable to be wary, but due to the PR they're probably going to be twice as careful as the other guys.

[beam me up scottie]

237. Yeah if I had their software I would probably remove it.

But thinking it's going to be used to launch an invasion is absurd. Caution is necessary but panicking and spreading rumors just helps add to the chaos.

[MiddleClass]

169. Not saying anything is going on, but here is something to think about

[link:https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-03-19/cybersecurity-kaspersky-has-close-ties-to-russian-spies|

I don't think it's worth it, would you trust a suspected child molester to watch your children?

Stating he was never convicted?

Think not

[hlthe2b]

172. I'd been debating removing Kaspersky from my computers: an alternate opinion from one expert

(which meshes with the opinion of local IT folks I've spoken with)....

AntivirusOpinion

Yes, It's Safe to Use Kaspersky Antivirus Software
by Paul Wagenseil Jul 21, 2017, 11:26 AM
--snip--
Let me state right off the bat that I am not a Russian apologist. The evidence is overwhelming that the Russian government influenced the 2016 U.S. presidential election through propaganda and selective disclosure of stolen information. Cybersecurity experts were aware of Russian electoral machinations in March of 2016, before the GOP primary process was even finished.

But there's no evidence Kaspersky Lab had anything to do with that. What is clear is that Kaspersky has a terrific team of researchers looking into malware and cyberespionage, and they freely and actively share what they discover.

The company has not one, but three cybersecurity blogs that I read every day: the general Kaspersky blog, the technical but informative Securelist blog and the excellent but less technical Threatpost news site.

Yes, Kaspersky has uncovered cyberespionage campaigns conducted by U.S. intelligence agencies, most notably the Flame spyware platform. (Contrary to widespread belief, Kaspersky did not discover the Israeli-NSA Stuxnet worm.) But Kaspersky has also uncovered Russian cyberespionage efforts, such as the Red October campaign.

More recently, Kaspersky Lab did some of the most important work in analyzing the Petya/ExPetr ransomware worm that hit Europe in late June. Kaspersky was the first major cybersecurity company to state that this worm was actually a cyberweapon disguised as ransomware — and the evidence pointed to Petya being part of a Russian attack against Ukraine. (Kaspersky Lab has a policy of not explicitly attributing state-sponsored malware campaigns to any particular state, but it's usually not hard to read between the lines.)

--snip--
So is Kaspersky software safe to use? It's probably not a good idea for any U.S. defense contractor, federal agency or critical-infrastructure operator to use antivirus software from a potential adversary country. That includes not only Russian companies like Kaspersky and Dr.Web, but also Chinese ones such as Qihoo 360.

But private citizens need not worry that Kaspersky software will open up their computers to Russian hackers. If that were the case, it would have been found out already. What customers need to know is that Kaspersky antivirus software is really good — and will do a great job keeping out real threats instead of merely speculative ones.

--more-- Recommend reading the entire article:
https://www.tomsguide.com/us/kaspersky-safe-to-use,news-25516.html


May I add, that I will NOT tolerate ANYONE accusing ME of somehow being a R-bot or some kind of R-apologist in posting this as a more moderate viewpoint (as I've already seen developing in this thread). Like everyone else here, I'm trying to sort out the TRUTH from what may be exaggerations of the situation as it stands for consumers.

[Squinch]

212. I can't find any reason to risk it. I got rid of it.

[ucrdem]

173. "wrote the panel's Republican chairman, Lamar Smith . . ."

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-kasperskylab-probe-idUSKBN1AD2H0


p.s. basically what we have here is an un-american name. Let's not go down this road.

[Eliot Rosewater]

178. sigh

typical isnt it

[mythology]

204. No actually it's not typical for DUers to cite a blithering idiot like Lamar Smith

Even in a worst case scenario and this nonsensical fantasy were to be true (for which you have cited exactly zero credible evidence), do you really think that these supposed nefarious criminal masterminds would be so sloppy as to write code that could be removed by clicking uninstall? Seriously?

[AtheistCrusader]

174. Creative Speculation group is thataway.

[hunter]

186. Link...

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1135

I say so even though I don't have a horse in this race as I avoid everything Microsoft, Apple, and most things x86.

Many years ago I took to heart the nightmare of someone imagining Star Trek's Montgomery Scott or Geordi La Forge digging through ancient x86, Apple, and Microsoft code that has risen up like a ghostly cobra and left their Enterprise dead in space.

[AtheistCrusader]

207. "Oh shit, does anyone speak FORTRAN?"

"I'm sorry sir, even the universal translator can't make heads or tails of it."

"Well, nothing else for it then. ALL HANDS ABANDON SHIP"

[Not Ruth]

177. What is the timeline?

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

180. Take this, you're going to need it.

[Eliot Rosewater]

183. Your response is helpful, i know who to ignore now.

[beam me up scottie]

184. There's a red under my bed...

[Warren DeMontague]

190. In that case, I advise taking it.

[beam me up scottie]

193. Decisions, decisions...

[Warren DeMontague]

187. I hear they've been putting pornography on the internet

I mean, how else would it have gotten there?

[beam me up scottie]

191. I KNEW IT!!!

[Warren DeMontague]

198. Those funny cat memes arent so cute now, are they comrade

[beam me up scottie]

199. Soviet Cat approves of cat memes.

[Skittles]

217. STOP IT WARREN

YER KILLING ME

[beam me up scottie]

219. I've been told some things are JUST NOT FUNNY. It's why we can't have nice things here.

[Warren DeMontague]

223. ...

[Eliot Rosewater]

231. If I didnt know better I would think you are purposely trying to rile me up so I will

do something you can report me for.

[beam me up scottie]

235. If you don't like kitteh pics definitely stay away from the lounge on Sundays.

:large

[Eliot Rosewater]

230. If I didnt know better I would think you are purposely trying to rile me up so I will

do or say something you can report on.

[Warren DeMontague]

234. You get riled up by the fact that there's pornography on the internet?

Wow, using it must be tough.

[L. Coyote]

192. How much do you have to bet? I'll take all of it. Thanks.

Someone already said unadulterated nonsense. That was being too kind.

[pbmus]

208. I knew there was a reason I do not own property...

[Warren DeMontague]

218. THE CALLS ARE COMING FROM INSIDE THE ROOMBA

[beam me up scottie]

220. I've always been suspicious of those things, just look at them:

And it's RED too.

[Warren DeMontague]

222. My dog wants fucking NOTHING to do with ours.

It's convinced it's coming to eat us all. And it probably is.

[beam me up scottie]

224. See, dogs know. They can sense these things.

Now cats, they're all in on it. Oh sure, we've all seen the cute pictures of kittehs riding around on them but what you don't know is that they're operating the cameras.

We're on to you, Russian Kitteh, leave that patriotic duck alone!

[jmg257]

238. I'll take some of that action.