General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsHow Heather Heyer died........a post from ItsGoingDown.
https://itsgoingdown.org/state-trooper-try-stop-medics-performing-cpr-heather-heyer/I was horrified and sickened and angered to read this compelling post.
As a queer, non-binary, anarchist, critical care RN/street medic who was the first responder for Heather Heyer, initiating CPR and, with a team of amazing bystanders, facilitating resuscitation until EMS arrived, I feel a compelling need to tell our story.
When we heard the car crash into our march, I was about 20 feet away from Heather, and I responded immediately to the screams for medics. I arrived to find bystanders holding c-spine traction on Heathers neck and putting pressure on a deep leg wound to stop the bleeding, and I stopped to assist in controlling the bleed. Within a minute or two, Heathers respirations slowed and stopped, she lost her pulse, we rolled her onto her back, and I began chest compressions. An EMT street medic provided respiratory supplies, and a bystander with medic training began respirations.
One of the critical aspects of Advanced Cardiac Life Support (ACLS), which is the advanced form of CPR that trained medics provide, is maintaining chest compressions at an effective depth and speed, with no breaks in compressions. Providing effective chest compressions is exhausting, and to maintain effective compressions, we ideally provide compressions for only two minutes, and take turns with other medics.
In 90 degree heat, this is even more essential. I was horrified to discover, after two minutes of intense, exhausting chest compressions, that a state trooper had forcibly removed the EMT assisting me in resuscitation, as well as other bystanders ready in line for the next round of compressions. The EMT told the state trooper that we were actively resuscitating a patient, but the state trooper physically removed him from the scene anyway.
The rest at the link.
redstatebluegirl
(12,265 posts)The State of Virginia state police own this. The Governor who said the right things, needs to begin an investigation on how many Virginia state police belong to the Klan or other white nationalist organizations and fire them!
CaliforniaPeggy
(149,629 posts)redstatebluegirl
(12,265 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)by reputable sources. Please provide verification of this anti-government story or delete your post.
dalton99a
(81,515 posts)ghostsinthemachine
(3,569 posts)Here. Why the streets were open to cars. No barricades. This..
GentryDixon
(2,952 posts)it won't be long before this trooper is named. Shameful.
plus one, K and R.
Angry Dragon
(36,693 posts)longship
(40,416 posts)Finally, I would like to state, as a very small, unarmed person who held ground against a very large, armed person giving me orders, with the power to arrest and physically harm me for refusing to follow those orders: NEVER try to come between a nurse and their patient. A bit like coming between a mama bear and their cubs. We do not abandon our patients. And, a note to fascists everywhere, good people will stand our ground. We will not abandon each other, we will not abandon marginalized communities, we will not back down. Even when you show up very large with guns and knives.
We will not back down. Power to the good! Rest in power, Heather. I will always remember your eyes.
niyad
(113,334 posts)riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)Stonepounder
(4,033 posts)I haven't heard this from anywhere else. With all due respect to CaliforniaPeggy (and I mean that sincerely and honestly), I really need confirmation of this story. It just doesn't make any sense that the police would stop someone trying to aid for no reason.
Can anyone find a second source for this?
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)Seriously, nobody ever starts a first-person account in this manner:
As a queer, non-binary, anarchist, critical care RN/street medic who was the first responder for Heather Heyer, initiating CPR and, with a team of amazing bystanders, facilitating resuscitation until EMS arrived, I feel a compelling need to tell our story...
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)mahatmakanejeeves
(57,487 posts)Death notwithstanding. No, I'm not kidding.
obamanut2012
(26,080 posts)LeftInTX
(25,366 posts)pnwmom
(108,980 posts)raven mad
(4,940 posts)I sincerely hope this is a "story".
I really don't like crying this much.
pansypoo53219
(20,978 posts)Pauldg47
(640 posts)Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)than an anonymous post on some anarchist (that alone is an alarming indicator) blog I never heard of... This reeks of clickbait at best and agitprop at worst...
Pauldg47
(640 posts)Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)Go on, tell me more...
speaktruthtopower
(800 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)spanone
(135,844 posts)lpbk2713
(42,759 posts)Send him up for murder in the first. Not Murder 2 as he is now.
Yonnie3
(17,444 posts)I know people who were in that crowd.
I worked with Heather's grandfather.
I know people who provided medical assistance.
I see all sorts of rumors many of which are not true or are gross distortions.
If this happened none of the folks who helped have mentioned it.
None of the rumors have mentioned this.
If this happened the persons here who claimed to have rendered her aid, and actually gave names, would have mentioned it happening.
I smell hurtful bullshit. Of course I could be wrong ...
KT2000
(20,583 posts)that the police were clearing everyone and it did not seem they were considering the injured. Wonder what their training calls for in such circumstances. Was this treated as mass casualty or illegal assembly?
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)For instance, at the boston marathon bombings. There were multiple explosives that did not simultaneously detonate. Even the shitheads at Columbine set explosives in the parking lot to greet first responders. (Timers didn't trip)
The police will, as a matter of course, attempt to dominate and control the scene. Preserve evidence, as well as to prioritize limiting further casualties. They are ill-inclined to allow you to help the injured at further risk to yourself. They don't know if the attack was an attack, they don't know if it's over, or it's going to continue, or going to get SERIOUSLY worse.
I wouldn't attempt to automatically read negative motives into the officer, if the alleged 'clearing' happened. He may have more or less triaged the situation, decided she was dead, and not worth the risk.
Sucks, but that's the world we live in. People target first responders and helpful bystanders because they will be 'in range' when they move in to help.
Rural_Progressive
(1,105 posts)but as an old Coast Guard Corpsman and part of a Advanced Life Support team in Seattle way back when, if I ever find myself involved in an incident and ANYONE who is not more medically qualified to render aid tries to remove me from assisting a victim there will be hell to pay and I'd don't care what they do to me.
Don't much care what the world we live in looks like, don't much care if I get targeted, don't much care what the police want. Didn't the Dump just give the Congressional Medal of Honor to a medic who refused to follow his officer's order and quit going back to save the lives of his comrades? Didn't he say he kept doing it because he'd have rather died than live knowing he abandoned his comrades?
Well guess what, like it or not, we are all "comrades" and when we are so afraid for our own safety that we use that as an excuse to not help our fellow human being at these times, well game over. We might just as well pack it up and quit pretending we are any better than those who are trying to beat us down.
AtheistCrusader
(33,982 posts)But I also understand the police have a different agenda that may not align with mine, and it isn't necessarily nefarious. It's just not in alignment with my values. That might mean I get tased and drug away from an injured person that needs help. That's a price I can afford.
I would even go so far as to consider it political cowardice, because every injury/death is viewed as a demerit on their parts, having failed to contain it.
Police, or more specifically their command structure,(and therefore policy) are political creatures first and foremost.
bigtree
(85,998 posts)Nevernose
(13,081 posts)I yelled "Fucking do something!"
He said, "I don't know what the fuck to do, I'm not a fucking paramedic." And he was right.
Massive internal teauma; nobody could do anything. My point being: most cops don't get anything beyond rudimentary first aid, just like paramedics don't usually get firearms training.
Arazi
(6,829 posts)This is awful if true but would need confirmation.
I'm no cop lover but I can't imagine them interfering with medical assistance for such a badly injured person
Ilsa
(61,695 posts)Just as much as SEALs. This nurse was awesome, taking charge, then standing up to a state trooper who, by some statistical measurement, may have been a neo-nazi himself. They have infiltrated law enforcement.
CaliforniaPeggy
(149,629 posts)I will continue to scan for any further information.
I appreciate everyone's comments.
Yonnie3
(17,444 posts)The poster of that anonymous blog post is being hurtful and just trying to shift blame. There is just so much of this going around and much of it is just wrong. So many people armchair quarterbacking, second guessing, affixing blame and so on.
A young woman is dead, KILLED by a RIGHT WING TERRORIST. Don't let anything dilute that folks.
Warpy
(111,270 posts)was removing anybody who wasn't in a uniform. Jackass just wasn't smart enough to know death can occur while an unresponsive person is waiting for an ambulance to turn up.
Cop needs some better training. All cops should be trained in CPR so they've got a clue what's going on in a situation like this one.
He probably wasn't being malevolent, he was just too fucking ignorant to realize how ignorant he was.
Airotciv60
(29 posts)The other posting indicate that this is a neo-nazi web site. It is trying to deflect responsibility for Heather's death.
Coventina
(27,121 posts)Stonepounder
(4,033 posts)N/T
Coventina
(27,121 posts)Some antifa are anarchists, but not all.
The antifa are made up of many different political ideologies (except fascism, of course).
Initech
(100,080 posts)forgotmylogin
(7,529 posts)Were the police triaging potential aid-givers to other victims, or removing them from the scene? I'd understand if people are standing waiting to help one person, police might have pulled them to help stop other victims from bleeding out which could have prevented more deaths. Triage is a harsh mistress in an emergency situation. Clearing people out *might* also have seemed like the best immediate idea also in case the driver was planning to make another run. Kudos to the brave people who did what they could.
This is sad and horrible and I'm keeping the Heyer family and the other victims in my thoughts.
ffr
(22,670 posts)Referring to the police officer aggressively trying to force this nurse from stopping CPR on Heather Heyer.
Finally, I would like to state, as a very small, unarmed person who held ground against a very large, armed person giving me orders, with the power to arrest and physically harm me for refusing to follow those orders: NEVER try to come between a nurse and their patient. A bit like coming between a mama bear and their cubs. We do not abandon our patients. And, a note to fascists everywhere, good people will stand our ground. We will not abandon each other, we will not abandon marginalized communities, we will not back down. Even when you show up very large with guns and knives.
We will not back down. Power to the good! Rest in power, Heather. I will always remember your eyes.
Loge23
(3,922 posts)Fuck the AMA for always taking a position that minimizes highly trained , caring, and compassionate nursing.
phylny
(8,380 posts)We are meeting for dinner tonight. I will not mention this story, but she did say that she was going to tell me what her daughter saw. I will see if there is a cooberating version.
CaliforniaPeggy
(149,629 posts)phylny
(8,380 posts)That doesn't mean that I think someone is lying, I just can't verify the story.
barbtries
(28,798 posts)omigawd.
Bengus81
(6,931 posts)MFM008
(19,814 posts)mainer
(12,022 posts)In fact, sounds exactly like something a critical care nurse would say.
CaliforniaPeggy
(149,629 posts)and I have done CPR many times.
This has the ring of truth to me.
ffr
(22,670 posts)I Googled it too, hoping there surely would be another site posting this story. So far, nothing.
scheming daemons
(25,487 posts)The link is a anarchist web site... and NOBODY would start telling this story like this:
"As a queer, non-binary, anarchist, critical care RN/street medic...."
I think this is someone *PRETENDING* to be someone, and it is agitprop.
ffr
(22,670 posts)Last edited Wed Aug 16, 2017, 07:04 PM - Edit history (1)
It appears to be the only version, so you may be right.
Damn Internet BOTS! If that's what this story was.
bigtree
(85,998 posts)...your own evidence-free speculation is not a credible challenge to this apparently firsthand account.
Why would it be out of hand for someone posting on an 'anarchist' site to be present at the demonstration and instrumental in this tragedy??
scheming daemons
(25,487 posts)...it isn't germane to the story, and it is an alt-righters view of what a LGBTQ person would say to begin their story.
This was an alt-righter PRETENDING to be an LGBTQ anarchist.
If you saw someone begin stories with "I am a 50-year-old straight white female left-of-center nurse who happened to be at..... "
People don't lead with those kind of details about themselves that aren't germane....not when they're authentic.
malaise
(269,045 posts)Generic Other
(28,979 posts)Very shaken.
southerncrone
(5,506 posts)If he can be identified, w/the nurse's testimony along w/other bystanders, Heather's mother may have grounds for a law suit against that trooper.
Thanks for sharing this.
It is simply unconscionable.
bigman883
(1 post)First I am a licensed RN in 2 states (NJ and CA) and I am also a paramedic. I have been in healthcare since 1981, and I have worked across the US and around the world, primarily in emergency services.
I am upset and confused by several statements the author stated as anonymous has stated in their blog post.
1. The blog poster named anonymous's description of care was wholly inadequate and goes against every principle of emergency care. For example if Heather was actually on her stomach when they first arrived, and then after a minute they rolled her over on her back after Heather stopped breathing, then what you are telling me is you are not managing her airway effectively. A basic EMT knows this. The person who authored the blog post, if they are actually a critical care RN, knows better. The first thing they should have done was managed the airway and looked for life-threatening injuries on the chest, neck, abdomen, etc. You can't do that when you have the person their stomach.
2. If the bleeding was not being controlled by direct pressure she should have taken her belt off and made a tourniquet. We have had a public awareness campaign regarding this very issue for the last 3 years nationally - https://www.dhs.gov/stopthebleed
If the person named anonymous was really a critical care RN as they purport this was something we have been teaching to RN's, doctors, paramedics, police officers, firefighters, etc. for the last 10 years as one the lessons learned from Afghanistan.
10 years at least. Anonymous blog poster knew this...and watched her bleed out for 2 minutes? really? Critical care RN? Highly suspicious.
3. A critical care nurse, a real critical care nurse, would never describe 'Advanced Cardiac Life Support (ACLS), as the advanced form of CPR'. I know. I was a critical care nurse I took care of burn and trauma patients. I am certified in CPR and ACLS and I am an instructor in both disciplines.
The person who wrote this is correct that CPR must have high-quality compressions but that is not something limited to ACLS. We teach everyone that, doctors, nurses, paramedics, lifeguards, school teachers...anyone who wants to learn CPR. Why did they make this distinction? I have no idea, maybe to make themselves seem smarter?
4. I am on the emergency planning committee for the city that I work in. Every time there is a terror attack we review all of the video from the incident, not top secret stuff, but everything that is posted on the news; Facebook; YouTube; Twitter; etc.
Paris. London. Charlottesville
Everything..
We watched hours of video, al of it you can find on your own. There is one you tube video that shows the entire incident from beginning to end.
Nothing that the author named anonymous in their blog post occurred that is even remotely close to what they say. Nothing. If anything we can see the State Troopers establishing a perimeter to keep everyone back and allow those people providing aid to have the space they need to continue to help, clearing a path to facilitate egress and departure.
No troopers interfered with anyone, as a matter of fact they all seemed content to stand back and make sure anyone was safe.
And that is their primary duty in any of these incidents, do you know why?
Because in a terrorist event frequently first responders (police, fire, EMS) become secondary targets...so now you have to be on the look-out for another car driving up; someone with an assault rifle; someone with a back-pack bomb.
they really don't care about the people rendering aid people.
5. FINALLY. If the person who posted this blog named anonymous is really a critical care RN then by law in the state of Virginia they are mandated reporter. If they see elder or child abuse they must report it.
They are also a mandated reporter when someone interferes with a registered nurse, doctor, paramedic, etc., who when rendering care for a patient if anyone interferes with them.
You don't have a choice you must report. Failure to report means jail and loss of license. With all of the videos and there is a ton of videos out there why would you make an accusation and then not report it? If it is true then people need to be held accountable...but failing to report means you lose you licnese and you go to jail.
Why?
I would encourage everyone here to look at the videos, you can actually see a full and complete video of bystanders providing complete care until paramedics show up...and no one tries to stop the bystanders.
What happened in Charlottesville is beyond description. I am so proud of Heather and everyone else who stood up that day to evil, to Nazi's, to the KK, to white supremacists...
BUT WE CANNOT LIE TO MAKE A POINT. It detracts from the argument and erodes our credibility to the face of the public. For those who are unsure or are on the fence, we give them pause to support us because we are untruthful.
It turns my stomach to see Nazi's and the KKK marching through the street...chanting...etc. But we cannot lie about events or support those that do.
Please I implore everyone here LOOK FOR YOURSELVES. The videos are there, there are too many to watch. Then post the video links here and tell me I am wrong.
Stay safe. Danny
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)A number of things in the OP, to put it mildly, seemed unlikely. But lacking your training and experience, and not having reviewed the tapes, I am very glad to find your post down here.
By the way, we all have an alert button we can use to bring scrutiny to questionable posts. And welcome to DU.
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)My suspicions are because every story on this traces back to the one source. There is no corroborating story that I can find. I'm a skeptic, need more than 1 source.
To replying by # to your #s
1. Author originally helped try to control the bleeding. Not her neck, head as others were there. The author wasn't in charge but assisting. Maybe they should've taken over, but it reads like they were only assisting. "An EMT street medic provided respiratory supplies, and a bystander with medic training began respirations."
We are also trained to not move people with potential spinal injuries until assessed and stabilized to prevent further injuries causing more issues like paralysis on death. Hence you don't simply manage the airway and roll them over to check their chest for injuries.
Airway, assess, stabilize spine before moving them further.
2. You say the author "watched her bleed out for 2 minutes". Maybe you missed the part about applying pressure to control the bleeding. And Airway, Breathing, Circulation. The author put pressure while someone else managed the airway. When breathing stopped, the author moved to help there and circulation via CPR, leaving the leg wound to another person.
I looked at your dhs link, looks like they were applying pressure as indicated, with hands, dressing, didn't get to step 3. As a RN of 40 odd yrs, I've applied pressure several times at accidents, never used a tourniquet but helped with pressure holding. Pre-universal precautions even.
3. "a real critical care nurse, would never describe 'Advanced Cardiac Life Support (ACLS), as the advanced form of CPR'." Seriously? That's your complaint? Maybe you wouldn't, but thats a rather broad statement.
Yes, CPR and ACLS both use CPR, but maybe they dumbed down what they wrote for the common folk. Explained not using jargon. One of the critical aspects of acls is" maintaining chest compressions at an effective depth and speed, with no breaks in compressions". I won't bash anyone for saying ACLS " advanced form of CPR that trained medics provide", because that is also true. Yes, it's true of CPR, but also acls.
Your statement "maybe make themselves seem smarter" is cute. Unnecessary though. The lack of any other reports on this is enough to question its accuracy, no need to plan a "my creds are greater than yours".
4. Conflicting statements.
" If anything we can see the State Troopers establishing a perimeter to keep everyone back and allow those people providing aid to have the space they need to continue to help, clearing a path to facilitate egress and departure"
And
"they really don't care about the people rendering aid people"
On the one hand, troopers are providing aid givers space to give aid, on the other they really don't care. Thus seems conflicting to me.
5. Mandated reporters are for abuse or neglect. I'd like to see a link for what you claim, that this claimed interference needed reporting. Thank you, again.
To end, I agree that the story is suspicious. All links I can find on thus trace back to the same source, a red flag IMO. I think bystanders tried to save her but she was hurt too badly. It sucks, it happens. (Non-jargon there). The story is suspicious. Have you read anything official on cause of death?
SecularMotion
(7,981 posts)It is from an Anti-Democrat website
https://itsgoingdown.org/democratic-co-optation-charlottesville/
Doesn't belong on DU