Until monday, I never heard of Antifa

[ghostsinthemachine]

Now, this group appears to be the rights boogieman.What does DU think?


Heres an ÑBC story about the group http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/who-antifa-meet-radical-neo-nazi-fighting-militia-n793241 I haven't seen it, will in a second.

[Le Gaucher]

1. Sounds a lot like 'Intifada'

[Orrex]

4. That was exactly my first thought

And I likewise had never heard the term "Antifa" until Monday.

[hexola]

9. Me, also - I think the similarity gives it the "ring" of terrorism...

And I had never heard anyone self identify as Antifa - I had only heard the term used at places like freerepublic - and frankly I had no idea what they were talking about...

[bdamomma]

11. now they are depicting those

who disagree with don the con as "terrorists"? He is the biggest terrorist and fake and he needs to be removed.

Also I have never heard those sayings of alt-left and antifa until he said it on Monday, what a sick bastard he is.

[Not Ruth]

12. There is a lower case "a" former antifa around if you need to ask questions

I think that upper case "A" Antifa might be different

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=9452214

[Not Ruth]

15. That former antifa bloc'er is lower case "b" bloc, which may or may not be Black Bloc

[politicat]

20. Hi, what do you want to know?

Antifa has been around in the US for about 40 years. It began more or less in the punk subculture, because most of punk had a real problem with Nazi skinheads, and the tactics and philosophy evolved in anti-nuke and economic justice work. There's a much longer history in European circles because they've been dealing with fascists at a direct level for a lot longer.

There's no real difference between Antifa and antifa; the lowercase denotes the philosophy, Antifa denotes the people, but that's just my linguistic, academic precision or lack thereof (and sometimes autocorrect). There's not enough organization to call the disparate local groups organized.

Again, I will mention that Bloc (or bloc) is a tactic, and it's a tactic that has been used by forced birthers and suffragists and environmentalists and union organizers and economic justice advocates and LGBTQ rights advocates and pretty much every direct action group ever. You and your squad can use bloc tactics and probably do without realizing it, if you're doing any direct action. (Seven people protecting access to a clinic door are using a bloc tactic. Clinic escorting is a bloc tactic. Bike-locking oneselves to protect a tree is a bloc tactic.) Not all groups who use bloc tactics identify as Antifa; not all antifa groups use bloc tactics. Black Bloc specifically refers to the tactical practice of dressing in anonymous, hard to identify, protective clothing (which is almost always black, because black shades match, while blue or purple don't, and almost everyone owns basic black clothing or can score some quickly, easily and cheaply) because presenting a visual uniformity helps protect the more vulnerable who engaged in action. It's just a reality of the action that the opposition will attack more visciously people of color or people who present as non-binary or women. If they can't tell which people in a line are POC or LGBTQ or female, it doesn't give them a target. Plus solidarity and giving us who are protesting a visual shorthand for knowing who our squad is.

As usual, ask me anything.

[Not Ruth]

22. Are Antifa connected to anarchists?

https://itsgoingdown.org/fought-charlottesville-letter-dangers-ahead/

I am one of the thousands of people who confronted Nazis and white supremacists in Charlottesville, Virginia last weekend. I am a blue-collar person, with a job, family, and responsibilities. I would have preferred to do other things with my weekend. However, I had to ask myself: If these people are allowed to run roughshod over this town, what will they do next?

“We would have been crushed like cockroaches if it were not for the anarchists and the antifascists… They saved our lives, actually. We would have been completely crushed, and I’ll never forget that.”
–Dr. Cornel West
“I MIGHT ADD THAT THERE WERE NOT MURDERERS ON BOTH SIDES—BUT THAT’S NOT REALLY MY POINT.”

No, I did not behave peacefully when I saw a thousand Nazis occupy a sizable American city. I fought them with the most persuasive instruments at hand, the way both my grandfathers did. I was maced, punched, kicked, and beaten with sticks, but I gave as good as I got, and usually better. Donald Trump says that “there was violence on both sides.” Of course there was. I might add that there were not murderers on both sides—but that’s not really my point.

I would like to ask a different question. What would have happened if there had not been violence on both sides? What would have happened if there had only been violence on one side?

On the night of Friday, August 11, 2017, I saw something that I never thought I would see, and that I hope I never see again: 500 Nazis and white supremacists marching across the campus of the University of Virginia while police did nothing, surrounding 30 counter-demonstrators who were holding hands around a statue of Thomas Jefferson, and beating them with torches while calling them “nigger” and “boy.” By the end of the night, it was clear to me that the “Unite the Right” march had been organized for the express purpose of killing people on Saturday.

Permit me to quote a post from a clergyperson in Charlottesville at length, because it correctly explains what happened on Saturday morning, and why. There are countless other narratives like it online.

“A note on the Antifa:
They are the reason Richard Spencer did not speak today. They are the reason the “Unite the Right” march didn’t happen. They strategically used violent tactics to incite the Nazis to violence, such that the governor declared a state of emergency before noon. Before the “Unite the Right” rally was scheduled to begin.
One could argue this meant Nazis dissipated into the streets faster making it less safe, but let’s be real: Nazis have been making these streets less safe for a long time. They would have been out and about soon enough with or without the antifa.
I was with a group of clergy committed to non-violence today. We did our part. We bore witness to the pain and hatred in this city. We provided pastoral care/support as needed, especially during traumatic violent acts. This was our determined role going into today. Yes, some clergy risked injury and arrest to stop the Nazis. They formed a blockade at the entrance, but they were overpowered by the Nazis. The police did not view us as threatening enough to shut things down, because again, we were no there to threaten.
The antifa strategically incited enough violence before noon to make the police declare it illegal to gather in Emancipation Park. Through this strategic violence they effectively made a previously legally permitted Nazi rally, illegal.
We may not agree with each others tactics. We may have had different goals, but if you’re looking to praise people specifically for shutting down the “Unite the Right” rally, praise/thank the antifa. Not the clergy and not the police.”

I do not want it to be soon forgotten that American anarchists and anti-fascists shut down the largest Nazi and white supremacist gathering on US soil in decades. We accomplished this despite being outnumbered, under equipped, and literally fighting up a hill—at great personal risk and at a terrible cost.

What if things had gone differently? What if we had done as the mayor recommended and stayed away from Emancipation Park, so as not to “feed into a cycle of violence”? What if the rally had proceeded as planned? What if Nazis and white supremacists had been able to build momentum into the night? Based on what I saw Friday and Saturday, there is no doubt in my mind what would have happened next: they would have terrorized the city of Charlottesville. They would have left their leadership a degree of plausible deniability, broken into smaller groups, and killed and injured any number of people in decentralized locations throughout the city. It was to be their Kristallnacht, their burning cross, their triumphant return.

Instead, they had to leave town in disarray in fear of us, the people of Charlottesville, and the police—in that order. They sent twenty people to the hospital and murdered Heather Heyer.

It could have been much, much worse.

These are dark and dangerous times. Nazis and white supremacists have shown that they are ready to kill and able to mobilize in great numbers, and they have the blessing of the President of the United States. They are well on their way to solidifying their position as the paramilitary arm of the Trump administration. These groups hope to be to Trump what ISIS is to Erdogan and what the Taliban is to the government of Pakistan: terrorist auxiliaries that provide strategic depth against enemies of the state.

On the other hand, Nazis and white supremacists discredited themselves completely in the eyes of millions of American people this weekend, as did their President by emboldening and defending them. The names and faces of many of those who participated in the “Unite the Right” rally are being broadcast on twitter feeds such as “yes, you’re racist,” and more extensive doxxing is undoubtedly soon to come. It seems a stressful and rather lonely moment for our opposition.

On the government side, Steve Bannon may or may not lose his job, as usual. As always, Trump is either on the ropes or on the verge of pulling off an authoritarian coup. It may be time for Americans of good conscience to resume the offensive, before this match made in hell has time to regain its footing and to consolidate further.

Donald Trump was elected head of state through the democratic process, of course, as was Adolf Hitler. He has the support of millions of people; so did Adolf Hitler. His government is in bed with people who dream about carrying out a second Holocaust and reinstating slavery, among other things. We have every right to topple this government if we can. It would be unfortunate to look back on this moment with regret, realizing that we missed our chance.

In my opinion, the high-water mark thus far of resistance to the Trump regime was the wave of airport occupations at the end of January, which set in motion a course of events that ultimately led to Steve Bannon being iced out of the foreign policy sphere by the few remaining adults in Trump’s circle. Unfortunately, they left Bannon the domestic sphere as his playpen, and the Deep State doesn’t care very much. No one is coming to save us.

What would it take to rise to this occasion? We would have to mobilize large crowds nationwide to shut down government infrastructure, prioritizing everything nearest and dearest to Bannon and his faction. Something like that might work. I don’t think it’s too late.

Of course, after Charlottesville, all such crowds will be considered soft targets by fascist murderers. We will have to demonstrate that we are able to exert deadly force to deter such attacks, as Redneck Revolt did admirably in Charlottesville.

If Americans of good conscience push hard enough, we may be able to force Trump to abandon Bannon and Bannonism. We might be able to topple Trump entirely. But under no circumstances will anyone with any self-respect ever submit to governance by Nazis. This government and its fascist allies should think carefully before they choose their next move.

In the spirit of Robert Grodt, who fought fascism in Raqqa, and in the spirit of Heather Heyer, who fought fascism in her own hometown—

An anarchist



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About the author:
CrimethInc. Ex-Workers Collective
CrimethInc. Ex-Workers Collective
https://crimethinc.com/
Crimethink is everything that evades control: the daydream in the classroom, the renegade breaking ranks, the spray-painted walls that continue to speak even under martial law. It is the persistent sense that things could be otherwise, that there is nothing natural or inevitable about the prevailing social order. In a world optimized for administration, everything that cannot be classified or displayed on a screen is crimethink. It is the spirit of rebellion without which freedom is literally unthinkable.

[Not Ruth]

23. What do you think of Tina Fey? And are liberals an enemy of leftists (Antifa)? Based on FB comments

Example of comment that I am talking about:

"Seriously, that skit made me *^%#^€ nauseous when she closed with a call to inaction."

https://www.facebook.com/antifascistnews/posts/1857132234601960

[obamanut2012]

47. Except she was being sarcastic/satirical

And wasn't saying that.

[politicat]

58. I think she's a comedian.

Clearly, I don't agree with her assessment of "eat your feelings" and isolate yourself. One: in terms of functioning human psychology, both of those are damn poor strategies for dealing with adversity. (Blood sugar spikes exacerbate depression; binge-eating is a form of self-harm; isolation can trigger depressive and anxious spirals.) Two: while self-care matters, there's a fine line between self-care, self-indulgence and self-destructiveness. But I'm not taking mental health advice or activism advice from Tina Fey. I generally enjoy her work as a writer, but I'm well aware that she mostly comes from a place of privilege. And I also recognize her satire on people like me - white, urban, relatively comfortable, feeling outraged and helpless.

My bigger issue is we already have a large "let them eat cake" contingent. I don't like to encourage that, but I also have enough faith in people to feel confident that most people don't get their activism advice from a sketch comedy show, and if they think about it even a little, they'll realize that sketch was mostly stupid and not intended as motivation.

Shorter: Meh. Bigger issues out there. It was 2 minutes of tape.

[IndieRick]

78. I am surprised, frankly

I had thought that this forum would attract the politically involved and aware. Having worked with OCCUPY, in a limited role supplying blankets, food stuffs and other necessities to the activists in Oakland I was made very aware, and made very opposed to, these "antifascists" ( thus the name).
That they subverted the message of OCCUPY, distracted from it, in fact, and helped to take down that worthy movement by sublimating its message with violence, unwanted, unnecessary and alienating should make all opposed to it..

[Demsrule86]

53. antifascist. actually.

[underpants]

2. FYI

I asked about this too and got some good responses

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029464336

[DemocratSinceBirth]

3. Mixed

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029474300

[AlexSFCA]

5. they are more prominent in Europe

but now that the american neo nazi movement is exploding, it's only natural to see antifa. We all need to learn more about them.

[samnsara]

6. Neither had i but i ordered the book today.....

[Lee-Lee]

7. As I have said in other posts they are the same people with a new hashtag

The same people now under the Antifa banner are the ones in tears last you saw as the "black bloc" or other names causing violence in protests at the J20, WTO, etc. If you can think back to virtually any event that had widespread political violence in protests in the last 20 years those are the same folks calling themselves Antifa now.

If you don't believe me, go find any of the prominent leaders and activists among them over 25-30 and google their name and you will see where they came from.

They use the same tactics as the "black bloc" protestors did to try and commit violence without arrest by all dressing in all black so one person can come up through a crowd in all black and a mask, do something violent, then fall back into the crowd of people all in black and all in masks who help him blend and get lost in the fray so police can't arrest them. They intentionally provoke and attack police trying to provoke a violent response from them to try and escalate the violence overall because they believe in violent revolution and want to push the nation into it.

Don't be fooled by new banners and new hashtags. If you didn't support their style of violence first protests in the past under other banners and names you shouldn't now.

[Expecting Rain]

8. Correct. They are the same violent-minded folks that have been fucking up peaceful demonstrations..

for a long time.

They do us great harm. Antifa are not allies and should not be treated as anything but a treat to liberal values.

They are violent provocateurs who will drive away peaceful protesters if we allow them in our midst.

[Demsrule86]

28. That is untrue...funny you have real hatred of those who fight back against fascists...

the right better understand that they will take back "their" country from our 'cold dead hands' if you will pardon the pun. We will fight back and win...oh and welcome to DU.

[womanofthehills]

31. Antifa takes lots of good actions - like passing flyers out all over this guys town that he's a Nazi

In fact, it was antifa who posted info about this racist all over his neighborhood. Who else is doing this? All you people are so black and white. All antifa are not violent.

‘My life is over’: 21-year-old Charlottesville marcher whines over ‘outing’ by anti-fascist group

Rochester, NY-based group called Eastside Antifascists took still images of Kuhn and distributed 250 fliers bearing his photo throughout the Honeoye Falls area with the slogan, “No Nazis in our neighborhood.”

The fliers explained that Kuhn is a participant and prolific poster at neo-Nazi website The Daily Stormer, “an avowedly neo-Nazi website around which local groups have been organizing to promote anti-Semitism, white supremacy and violence against LGBTQ communities.”

http://www.rawstory.com/2017/08/my-life-is-over-21-year-old-charlottesville-marcher-whines-over-outing-by-anti-fascist-group/

[Demsrule86]

77. No they are not.

Dancing to the GOP tune does us harm.

[uponit7771]

14. +1

[Major Nikon]

25. In general, direct action groups are collections of shitstains

They do more harm than good for their cause.

[womanofthehills]

36. Actually, many people including the clergy say antifa saved their lives in Charlottesville

[Major Nikon]

46. There's also plenty of examples of individual Nazis doing genuinely good deeds

That doesn't change the fact they chose to associate with shitstains.

[Demsrule86]

54. Ah...no Nazis never do good deeds... and Antifa saved lives...

I fail to understand why DU should condemn them.

[Major Nikon]

67. ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Rabe

[Demsrule86]

71. Really you want me to think a guy who did not accomplish much to end Japanese atrocities

while his country was shoving Jews into the ovens of Auschwitz was a 'good Nazi'. NO, he was a monster like all the others.

[Major Nikon]

72. He didn't accomplish much other than saving 200,000

[Demsrule86]

73. I read about the rape of Nanking...a drop in the bucket...

Sorry he was one of the ones who helped cause the entire thing...and of course six millions Jews died and untold amounts of Europeans, Russians...sorry there is not such thing as a 'good Nazi'...ever.

[Major Nikon]

74. Then by the same logic anyone who joins Antifa is equally responsible for every bad deed they do

Can't have it both ways. That's the point.

[Demsrule86]

75. That is untrue...Antifa has killed no one and saved lives in Charlottesvile...

The Nazis fought a war against us and others and killed 60 million people...I have no idea why anyone feels the need to defend Nazis...why some were not so bad...sarcasm. They were monsters.

[Major Nikon]

80. Untrue

Claiming that I'm "defend[ing] Nazis" by pointing out relevant facts is disingenuous at best. Antifa has a long history which includes bombings, arson, and other very violent confrontations which most certainly has resulted in death. If you don't know about that it's worth researching before you are so quick to defend them.

Antifa's goals includes the use of violent direct action. Association with that group aids others in that method regardless of whether or not anyone engages personally. So regardless of how many good deeds you want to point out on behalf of Antifa associates, it doesn't negate the violent actions of other associates. As you pointed out, the same is true of Nazism. The only difference is scale, which isn't necessarily a function of logic.

The problem I have with Antifa is their violent methods. Regardless of what good deeds any of them do, it doesn't change the reality that their organization is ultimately counter productive to what they are trying to achieve. As such they deserve condemnation from both sides. There's nothing liberal or progressive about street level violence, period. Any attempted defense of Antifa should really end there.

[Demsrule86]

81. Antifa is not anarchist ...you confuse the two.

And you did defend the idea of good Nazis...none exist nor ever existed.

[yardwork]

38. People escorting women through protesters into Planned Parenthood

are not "shit stains." Sometimes direct action is needed. I am a strong believer in non-violence. Not all direct action is violent. Holding hands in the face of attacks by Nazis wielding clubs is direct action.

[Major Nikon]

41. Thus the qualifier

While there's certainly examples of non-violent direct action, the term is generally associated with lawless extremists.

[yardwork]

42. Associated by whom? Let's not let the right wing media define us.

I strongly disagree with violent tactics. I know there are people who want to overthrow the U.S. government. I think they're wrong. I don't agree with the anarchists.

But let's not let the right wing media define all direct action by the behavior of a few individuals.

I am not antifa but I know people who are, and they are committed to non-violence.

[Major Nikon]

48. Nor should be allow shitstains to define us

[G_j]

63. not true

Last edited Sat Aug 19, 2017, 04:00 PM - Edit history (1)

maybe in your mind, but I have done many trainings in direct action and it has always been explicitly non-violent.
At least that is the kind of direct action I've always been familiar with.

[G_j]

66. By who?

[yardwork]

37. You're oversimplifying. Many antifa members disagree with the anarchists.

You're describing anarchist behavior - and the behavior of some who are infiltrators deliberately trying to make left wing groups look bad.

It's like saying that all Christians are evil because of the behavior of some.

[Lee-Lee]

49. When you march under the same banner alongside them you are them

Do you believe the folks who say their are not Nazis but were just there to protest the change of the statue? Or do you say if you march alongside people screaming Nazi shit that makes you a Nazi?

Same principle applies. If you are part of a group that has violent anarchits and you remain so that makes you the same.

You anology of Christians really isn't valid. It's more like saying if you stay in a certain church or denomination that preaches hate then that's what you are. Good christians don't tolerate hate in their church or stay in a violent one. Good progressives don't tolerate political violence or stay groups that engage in it.

[yardwork]

50. So all Catholics are pedophiles?

[Lee-Lee]

57. Catholics who stayed in a parish that had a pedophile

Are the ones that condoned and tolerated it. If your individual church has a lredohilempriest and you stay what does that say about you? Is tolerating it any better than being it?

Ones who changed churches not so much. Not even religions, just churches.

[get the red out]

10. Me neither

I had to look it up.

[Alea]

13. LOL @the people saying they never heard of antifa

To much spoon fed news from the MSM that won't talk about violence on the left keeps you in the dark.

Did ya miss Berkeley burning a few months ago. Antifa shows up at what should be peaceful protest and turns it in to a shit show. Charlottseville may be the first time they actually showed up to do what their name suggest.

Also LOL @people saying it's infiltrators from the right that make antifa look bad. No, they don't need infiltrators to make them look bad. Supporting them makes our party look bad and will cost us votes/elections.

[LeftInTX]

17. ++++

Maybe they're a little more rag-tag in the South. Maybe it's the heat. Maybe they have attracted new members who are not as militant.

It should have been the police that protected the clergy. Where were the police? Those brawls never should have happened.

We had a KKK type rally and counter-protest also in San Antonio on Saturday. (It wasn't as big as Charlottesville's) The cops kept everyone physically separated. Antifa types were counter-protesting.

[womanofthehills]

33. the majority of the members of antifa are not militant

[Demsrule86]

27. Oh please...give it a rest.

Antifa probably saved lives in Charlottesville.

[Demsrule86]

29. You think the Media treats the right unfairly because they don't 'talk about the violence on

the left'? Really? Hmmmm interesting... I have heard few hear complain about the Main Stream media being to soft on the left.

[WinkyDink]

30. "our party"?

[Demsrule86]

32. Exactly!

[Demsrule86]

34. Right...unlike Fox I suppose which brings folks to the light...sarcasm.

[stevil]

39. Its simple

Last edited Sat Aug 19, 2017, 11:47 AM - Edit history (1)

Antifa - Someone who hits back. I am determined to fight Nazis any chance I get. Don't confuse antifa with black bloc.

[yardwork]

43. You can edit your post.

I have to do it all the time. My phone has a mind of its own.

[stevil]

56. LOL

Will do.

[ornotna]

68. You are confusing antifa with the Black Bloc

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_bloc

[TeapotInATempest]

16. People in Charlottsville seem awfully grateful they were there

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2017/08/what_the_alt_left_was_actually_doing_in_charlottesville.html

And WaPo has an interesting article on them:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/made-by-history/wp/2017/08/16/who-are-the-antifa/?utm_term=.dbee4ae85d91

[ghostsinthemachine]

18. Yes, I read the Slate article

What prompted me to ask the question. Seems it would have been a much much worse situation without them.

[maxsolomon]

19. Antifa pretty much refuses to define itself

So the Right is doing it for them. DU's tut-tut brigade are lending a hand.

They're being tarred as equivalent to the alt-Right, and they are not.

[Gothmog]

21. The RWNJ media is obsessed with antifa

[yardwork]

44. I noticed, and as usual a lot of DUers go along with it.

[Spider Jerusalem]

24. "antifa" is a German term, originally

from "Antifaschistsche Aktion"; a militant left-wing antifascist group.

Here's the thing about the so-called "alt-right", about neo-Nazis, about white supremacists and white nationalists: they come to demonstrate armed with shields and clubs and pepper spray and in many cases firearms; they come looking to intimidate with the threat and promise of violence (in addition to the violence of their message, which is '"people who aren't white, Christian cisgender heterosexuals shouldn't exist'). They do things like this:

Outside, there was a group of about 20 U.Va. students and others who had encircled the statue of Jefferson, which stands in front of the steps up to the Rotunda, which Jefferson modeled after the Pantheon. Ibby Han, a recent U.Va. grad, told me that she watched the neo-Nazis light tiki torches and file in around the rotunda and the lawn, in groups of 20 and 30 people, until the stream of torches numbered in the hundreds. The students linked arms around the Thomas Jefferson statue and held a banner reading, “VA Students Against White Supremacy.” Han wrote me that, “Neo-Nazis spilled out down the steps and they just kept coming, it felt endless. They quickly surrounded the statue and drowned out the counter-protesters.” Jason Lappa, a freelance photographer, was there to document the scene. “They started to circle us, and, at first, the circle was really thin and then it was one or two people walking around the circle and then it was three, four, and then it was six or seven deep, and then it was so thick that there was no way out without going through them . . . and I’m looking around desperately for the U.Va. police.” The neo-Nazis started “to get very handsy” with the students, pulling away their banners and touching them. Then, Lappa told me, the students used pepper spray. “And then all of these supremacists had mace,” he continued. “There was a guy holding both arms with his thumbs on mace triggers spraying everywhere and no one could breathe.” Soon, the neo-Nazi protesters began to hit the students with their tiki torches. “Then they pulled protesters off the statue onto the ground and started stomping them,” Lappa said.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/08/charlottesville-liberal-college-town-ground-zero-for-white-supremacy

If the cops are going to abdicate responsibility in a situation like that? I don't really have a problem with having people there ready to stand up to the violence and answer it. If you have Nazis and fascists, people who advocate genocide and ethnic cleansing, marching in your streets, and your concern is for their freedom of speech and right to assemble? Your priorities are seriously fucking misplaced.

[steve2470]

61. I stumbled upon your fact the other night when I was reading about KPD in pre-Nazi Germany times

at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_Germany#/media/File:Bundesarchiv_B_145_Bild-P046279,_Berlin,_Liebknecht-Haus_am_B%C3%BClowplatz.jpg

[Demsrule86]

26. Antifascist...is what they are...seems reasonable to me...only fascist would fear them.

Of course they stopped the right's favorite activities...beating on Black folks (especially preachers) and women of all colors. To bad they could not have stopped the murder in Charlottesville by these right wing ass hats.

[roamer65]

35. God bless AntiFA.

[Demsrule86]

55. I agree.

[obamanut2012]

45. They ahve been around for decades, and are efefctove at what they do

They protect protestors from Nazis, and will do it physically, and the Nazis and their enablers don't like that. So they try and make them evil, and conflate them with the Nazis. And the Right falls for it.

And so does the Left, including many on here.

Find the Slate article where so many folks in Cville said the Antidfa saved their lives, literally.

That pic of the black antifa in CVille with the aerosal can flame directed at the Nazi? The Nazi had just pulled a gun on a group of Quakers, and the young antifa came and protected them.

WE need to realize what the Antifa actually do, and remember they are allies in this battle, and quit buying the lies about them.

[heaven05]

51. I am so glad they

are a PART of the 'Resistance' against the 21st century nazis running our country......

[Downtown Hound]

52. Any organization that gets the right in such a snit

is okay in my book. the righties just can't stand it there there are people actually willing to stand up to them in a physical way.

[romanic]

59. I wouldn't be cheering Antifa or it's ilk

Yes they oppose the fascists and Neo-nazis but only because fascism is the polar opposite of their views which tend to be communist in nature. Who's to say these Antifia people (some of whom are from the Black Bloc) wouldn't turn on the left and the Democratic party? They hijack BLM and peaceful rallies to commit violence against their foes (the fascists), what's to say they won't be violent towards those on the left when the fascists are gone and many on the left disagree with them?

[obamanut2012]

62. Because they have been around for decades in the US

And pre-WWII in Europe, and have never done such a thing.

You need to quit listening to RW and Nazi talking points against the Antifa and BLM.

[romanic]

70. I'm going by what I saw at a local rally here in the midwest during the fallout from the Philandro c

Some jackass Antifa members threw a fit because rally organizers told them not to cover thier faces or talk over black speakers. They flipped us off and called us all kinds of nasty names when we told them to leave. Maybe not all of them are like that, but a few rotten apples...

[steve2470]

60. Antifa Grows as Left-Wing Faction Set to, Literally, Fight the Far Right

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/17/us/antifa-left-wing-faction-far-right.html

OAKLAND, Calif. — Last weekend, when a 27-year-old bike messenger showed up at the “Unite the Right” rally in Charlottesville, Va., he came ready for battle. He joined a human chain that stretched in front of Emancipation Park and linked his arms with others, blocking waves of white supremacists — some of them in full Nazi regalia — from entering.

“As soon as they got close,” said the young man, who declined to give his real name and goes by Frank Sabaté after the famous Spanish anarchist, “they started swinging clubs, fists, shields. I’m not embarrassed to say that we were not shy in defending ourselves.”

Sabaté is an adherent of a controversial force on the left known as antifa. The term, a contraction of the word “anti-fascist,” describes the loose affiliation of radical activists who have surfaced in recent months at events around the country and have openly scuffled with white supremacists, right-wing extremists and, in some cases, ordinary supporters of President Trump. Energized in part by Mr. Trump’s election, they have sparred with their conservative opponents at political rallies and college campus speaking engagements, arguing that one crucial way to combat the far right is to confront its supporters on the streets.

Unlike most of the counterdemonstrators in Charlottesville and elsewhere, members of antifa have shown no qualms about using their fists, sticks or canisters of pepper spray to meet an array of right-wing antagonists whom they call a fascist threat to American democracy. As explained this week by a dozen adherents of the movement, the ascendant new right in the country requires a physical response.

[oberliner]

64. Have you never followed the WTO or G7 protests?

?itok=Kn9fdbab

[steve2470]

65. The problem with constantly confronting these Nazi asshats with violence is this...

Last edited Sat Aug 19, 2017, 04:34 PM - Edit history (1)

If there's enough violence in the streets, eventually the general public will tire of it and demand "law and order". We all know what happens when the public starts yearning for law and order. You get a right wing government. Trump and Pence are already way too right wing/Nazi sympathizer. We need to push the pendulum back to the left, and I don't think violence is the answer. Self-defense at these rallies, sure, but not actively seeking to hurt them.

Antifa has done good things. If they will be non-violent, they can do more good things. From what I'm reading, violence is part of their overall strategy, and that's not good long-term IMHO.

[OBenario4]

69. I like them.

They were in almost all protests I've been to in Brazil recently. They are always the front group in the marches and show a lot of care towards the elderly, the children, and other who could become easy target to counter-protesters or police violence. Some individuals are hot-headed and impulsive, but from what I've seen they try to hold back their own members that are getting exalted. They help organise the people during police repression and disperse crowds when necessary.

[Demsrule86]

76. We should not allow the Right to influence us...if we do than we are foolish.

They helped people in Charlottesville.

[Not Ruth]

79. Are they anti police or just anti Nazi?