Desperately spinning, repubs today on Morning Joe accused Obama campaign of Willy Horton tactics.

[CTyankee]

Actually, Joe Klein brought up the Horton ad and the Swiftboating and Dan Senor made the linkage.

Here is a case of being able to dish it out, but not being able to take it.

If I were Dan Senor, I think I'd go on vacay for a while...his b.p. can't be too good right about now...

[6000eliot]

1. Both of those things worked.

[no_hypocrisy]

2. "Some men rob you with a six-gun, others rob you with a fountain pen."

Woody Guthrie gets it right.

http://thinkexist.com/quotes/woody_guthrie/

[lunatica]

3. The whining just never stops does it

[CTyankee]

5. Yep. Joe Klein just served them some cheese to go with it...

[Marr]

38. This whining is making Republicans look like a bully who's finally been punched in the nose,

and is sitting on the floor crying for his mother.

[Skidmore]

4. Pardon me while I tune

my little tiny violin to provide them with a little background music with their whine and cheez.

[WI_DEM]

6. So in other words, they don't want Obama doing anything that works?

and besides, this is not 'Willy Horton' or 'Swiftboating' this is catching Romney in one lie after another about his business affairs. Fair game, I think.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

7. Obama is not allowed

to do basically anything that helps his chances of re-election and/or helps people in general.

[Atman]

28. Only partly right...

Dukakis DID let Willy Horton go. That is indisputable. But "Swiftboating" means to deliberately, repeatedly tell a lie about someone's credentials in order the lessen their credibility.

Dukakis didn't stand a chance when the ad was aired, instilling fear in the electorate at a time when crime was high, and there wasn't enough time for people to really get the facts. Oh, and then there was the silly tank/helmet situation.

Swiftboating was something entirely different, and these guys on the news shows are totally misrepresenting what the term means -- to intentionally tell a lie, as opposed to intentionally telling the truth.

.

[CTyankee]

30. Oh, I am with you on the difference but the terminology seems

to be more generic. I agree that we have the better case because we are telling the truth, and I wish we could have that conversation on shows like MJ. Perhaps we will be able to at long last since this is now a talking point. I think Joe Klein was heading in that direction but Senor interrupted him with his question and then there was a lot of cross talk.

I hope Ed Schulz or Al Sharpton takes it up...

[BumRushDaShow]

37. The problem is that "Willy Horton" was done in a manner

that broadbrushed the entire black community as criminals and almost 25 years later, we're still trying to dig out from that ugly stereotype.

I refuse to allow folks to summarily dismiss that disgrace of an ad ignoring what it eventually spawned (see Charles Stuart case in MA as one example from not long after that election). Kerry is a rich man and can survive but the damage has been almost irreparable to law-abiding citizens in the black community over 2 decades later.

[JHB]

42. IIRC, Horton's furlough program was from Dukakis' Republican predecessor

[Atman]

43. It may have been, but Dukakis signed the order.

It just shouldn't be a part of the discussion. "Swiftboating" is about deliberately lying. Willie Horton was about deliberately scaring people. Swiftboating was a lie. Willy Horton really happened. It is very important that we don't become like the morning commentators and begin using the terms interchangeably. They have extremely different meanings.

[CTyankee]

31. yup. I got that vibe loud and clear in this morning's discussion.

that's why I said they were desperately spinning...

[BumRushDaShow]

8. So they admit to their below the belt tactics?

Really?

Bwaaahahahahaha! This must be killing them because they are whining so much about it now!

[CTyankee]

11. EGGZACKLY!

Those amazin' republicans. Funny how they collapse in a whimper...

[SDjack]

9. They just accused DEMs of having the same bankrupt ethics they have. n/t

[alcibiades_mystery]

10. I love that when they cite dirty political tactics of the past, it's always GOP tactics

Swiftboating, Willy Horton, aren't these GOP specialties?

[DainBramaged]

12. What do these two things have in common

[TrollBuster9090]

13. BRILLIANT!!!!!

Distract from the issue by: REMINDING EVERYBODY WHAT "WILLY HORTON TACTICS" ARE, and WHO INVENTED THEM!

And if that isn't enough,

REMIND THEM WHAT SWIFBOATING smear tactics are, and which rich plutocrat got paid off with an Ambassadorship to Belgium for FUNDING them!

These Republican tactics are so brilliant they make three dimensional chess look like mud wrestling!

[CTyankee]

14. There are plenty of us Dems who want payback for Willy Horton and Swiftboating.

But let's eat this dish cold...as the saying goes...

[backscatter712]

23. So far, Baingate is most delicious!

[Baitball Blogger]

15. Except "Willie Horton" is actually the candidates actual record.

Major non sequitur.

[BumRushDaShow]

19. Except that the ad campaign at the time was done in a racist manner

in order to essentially "black bash" while gluing it onto Dukakis. They got a twofer with that. It eventually lead to nationwide manhunts for and sensationalized newspaper headlines about falsely accused black males, some of whom are finally getting out of jail thanks to DNA testing. The GOP is evil.

[Baitball Blogger]

20. I know exactly what you mean by "twofer"

But there has to be a better term to describe that phenomenon where each level you go down, you have to count two degrees of distance in measurement.

[BumRushDaShow]

25. In this case, there was no drilling down to other levels

To them, it was killing two birds (the entire black community and Dukakis) with one stone.

They deserve every goddam hit they are getting now and more.

For what you're describing, stuff that was lying dormant is literally replicating like a virus now that you pull back the layers and dig deeper. Think Farrah Fawcett's old Faberge shampoo commercials where she "told two friends and they told two friends and so on and so and so on". So you find one document, it leads to 2 documents that each lead to 2 documents (or more each) and so on and so and so on.

21st century term = going viral.

[Baitball Blogger]

26. And loving every minute of it.

[CTyankee]

32. context needed here:

Klein came on and said that in his career writing about presidential campaigns he had seen what is happening now only 2 times before: Dukakis and Kerry campaigns. The panel members jumped in and the discussion spun out from there on...

[Robbins]

16. Let me get this straight

The party of willie Horton and Swifboats are now complaning about attack ads.That Is Rich.

I have no problem with these ads because Obama Isn't lying.Unlike those lying swifboaters.

[Javaman]

17. lost mittens is now trying the scatter gun approach...

in hopes that something will hit.

amusingly, no one checked the sights.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

18. Exactly right...

I have no quarrel with harsh attack ads, provided that the ads are factual. The Willie Horton ad was a gross distortion of the facts (with just a titch of racism) and the Swiftboat ads were just plain fictional accounts of John Kerry's service in Vietnam. And both of these were launched by campaigns and third-party groups.

Mitt's problem began with the Bostom Globe and other legitimate news outlets asking legitimate questions about his business resume, and his been exacerbated by Romney's own refusal to release his tax returns.

Romney's getting devoured in every news cycle, and he has no one to blame but himself.

[Enrique]

21. actually Obama's ad is worse

singing Mitt Romney is much scarier than Willie Horton.

[Lex]

22. I *LOVE* that the Republicans are rocked back on their heels! They're not used to it.

And it's still early days. I hope Obama's campaign has more and more just waiting. I suspect they do.

[Atman]

24. I think Senor is just banking some extra cash before he's out of a job.

If he's so important to the Romney campaign, why is he wasting 3 hours of his morning on what is, according to the GOP, a third-rate Liberal news station? Just cashin' in, that's all.

.

[CTyankee]

33. well, since his wife got canned from her tv job, somebody has

to have a paycheck...

[grasswire]

41. she did?

I missed that.

[CTyankee]

44. Not sure what the show was. I would have to look it up. But I am pretty sure of it

happening. Her name is Campbell Brown. That's all I know at this point...

[CanonRay]

27. Oh noes! They accused us of using Republican tactics!

Are they copyrighted?

[Kablooie]

29. They are demonizing the Dems for using Republican tactics? Ha!

Even if the charges were true, which they aren't, how can they talk about their own tactics as being dishonest and unfair?

[Zyzafyx]

34. Senor is a Junor

I agree that he needs to get outta the kitchen.

[Zyzafyx]

36. Ooops, almost Forgot

Rec.

[Marr]

35. So they bring up two of THEIR OWN disgusting camaigns, and

say that sort of thing is unacceptable? How does that work?

I mean, even if you accept their claim that simply describing Romney's *actual* situation is akin to smearing your opponent with lies, it still only amounts to, "no fair hitting me back".

[otohara]

39. Whining Willard Getting Swiftboated

the kings of swift-boating calling foul, is downright hilarious.

[grasswire]

40. spinning....