When did religion become such a force in politics?

[Frustratedlady]

I've been around for many years...more than I care to admit...but I don't remember religion being such an issue in politics before. When did it truly start? I remember Kennedy fought the issue of being Catholic, but it seems like the "megaphone religious" have become more vocal/evident since the Tea Baggers entered the scene.

[nichomachus]

1. Like most other bad things -- under Reagan

[Warpy]

6. Nixon's deal with the devil was with southern bigots

Reagan's deal was with a far worse devil, the Christian theocrats.

The GOP survived Nixon's deal very easily, the southern bigots being too few to challenge much of the party bureaucracy that concentrated on making the world safe for wealth. They might not survive the theocrats who, after all, think they are the only ones qualified to run that party.

Eight years of Stupid really shook up the monied movers and shakers, I think, because he gave more than Reagan's lip service to the theocrats, he actively recruited bible school graduates and packed the whole government with them. Now there is a serious challenge to the interests of great wealth and the great wealth is very close to picking up their marbles and going home.

[Frustratedlady]

28. Man, I must have been awfully busy. I don't remember that at all.

I don't even know what religion Reagan was.

[Warpy]

33. Nobody did, the man never darkened the door of any church.

However, he was the one who insisted on the antiabortion plank in the party platform plus a few other goodies the televangelists were always on about and that was enough to ensure him of a faithful voting bloc among the faithful.

Reagan gave them lip service and not much more. Daddy Bush gave them lip service and Clarence Thomas. Stupid came along and gave them a large part of the government. And now they want to take it all over and they're the devil that might finally blow that rotten party apart.

[Frustratedlady]

48. I hope your last sentence is right.

But I'm afraid it would be too good to be true.

[AngryOldDem]

7. Beat me to it.

He validated the Religious Right and the Moral Majority.

That man has fucked up this country more than we may ever realize. Why in God's name he is so worshipped is beyond me.

[RKP5637]

27. Amazing, isn't it ... and in many cases those royally fucked over by

his policies are those that cling to him and worship him like some type of god.

[Bluerthanblue]

2. with the creation of the Christian Coalition and Moral Majority-

brought to us care of Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell.

It was a terrible turn of events for our country. Jimmy Carter was mocked for calling himself a born again Christian, G.W. Bush was worshiped and installed as POTUS for doing the same thing.

[arely staircase]

8. since politics was

Invented. Anyone who thinks.it started with the religious.right needs.to Google William.Jennings Bryan or anti-slavery movementor prohibitionist movement or emperor Constantine for that matter.

[Bluerthanblue]

20. of course religion has always influenced

politics, but there was a 'sea-change' with the marriage of the neo-cons and the 'evangelical religious right'. imo-

http://are.as.wvu.edu/jhicks.htm

[Frustratedlady]

43. It just hit me!!! What does the Religious Right scream the loudest about...

even more so than abortion?

Taking prayer out of school.

From then on, it was God out of everything connected to the US.

Now, they blame everything bad that happens to the US on taking prayer out of school or God out of...you name it.

[JHB]

49. MM first, CC later

The Christian Coalition pretty much grew out of Pat Robertson's '88 presidential bid (I think there was a question of an illegal transfer of the mailing list).

The Moral Majority formed about 10 years earlier, out of talks between Jerry Falwell, Paul Weyrich, and Richard Viguiere expressly to politicize the evangelicals for the Republican Party.

[valerief]

3. The 80s. Those TV evangelists pumped up the stupid across the nation

and it bled into policy.

[HereSince1628]

4. The story is told in this book...

http://books.google.com/books/about/With_God_on_our_side.html?id=_K0Um20CwX0C

With God on our side:the rise of the religious right in America, 1996
William Curtis Martin

From the google books description:

...A hundred years ago, scattered groups of conservative Christians worked fervently to spread the Gospel, but their involvement in politics was marginal. Early in this century, however, a series of charismatic and ambitious leaders began transforming the movement; by the election of John F. Kennedy as our first Catholic president, the Religious Right had found its voice.

Politics and religion began mixing as never before. From Richard Nixon's strategic manipulation of Graham's religious influence in the 1970s, to Ronald Reagan's association with Falwell's Moral Majority in the 1980s, to the Christian Coalition's emergence as a slick, sophisticated political machine, the line separating the pulpit from the presidency became increasingly blurred.,,,

Preachers such as Graham, Falwell, and Pat Robertson presided over ministries so vast and well organized that most politicians can ill afford to ignore their views--or lose their votes...

[dmallind]

17. I'm not sure I buy the continuous narrative

Yep there were several revivals and "awakenings", but I see the earlier ones - say pre-1950s at the very earliest - as sociological phenomena not political. The 1920s and Elmer Gantry-isms were all about proselytizing people and establishing cultural mores rather than changing laws and winning political office. Even in the 50s when fundy political pressure infected our currency and Pledge with sectarian exclusionism, the main idea was to enforce godliness onto individuals, not into legislation and legislators. In fact one of the key messages of the 1970s Christianist extremists was that believers should become "worldly" and get involved in politics rather than stay out of it which was the norm (Carter was a strange and strangely liberal prototype and as mentioned above was the butt of jokes for his faith - far different from when we have presidential candidate debates on the Bible on prime time TV now and claiming born again faith is expected not ridiculed - even weird para-christian beliefs are off limits).

Yes I suppose a case could be made that the infestation of religion into politics needed its unquestioned parasitic absorption of personal merit and value first, so that only Christians were seen as good people and the reverse held too. But to me they are separate. The rapacity for converts and zealots that we saw in the first half of the last century was catapulted into the political realm because of the distaste for the counter-cultural protests of the 60s and 70s, then turned into a Crusade for theocracy by the big 70s mass market preachers. Finally they developed zombie-like blocs of ovine followers who voted how Pat or Jerry told them, and lo, Republican kingmakers were made in the pulpits and on cable TV as the pomaded polyestered charlatans leveraged that power to squeeze as much bronze age nomadic goatherder bullshit as possible into laws and leaders from the school house to the White House.

[HereSince1628]

36. It's hard not to see the KKK as promoting racist politics using religious trappings.

Certainly they achieved power in both American politics and religion and maintained it in some regions well after WWII.

[Frustratedlady]

34. Well, a president wasn't really valid until Graham gave his blessing...that I remember.

I'd forgotten about the Moral Majority and Christian Coalition. I guess I didn't think they had any footing in their struggle...that it was a fire and brimstone kinda way to raise megamillions and I went about my business and ignored them. If people wanted to listen to the crap the evangelists spewed in their rants and arm-swinging presentations, so be it.

Actually, I didn't get that involved in politics after Kennedy was shot. It took me a long time to get past that tragedy. I guess you could say that either Obama gave me the incentive or George W. scared the beejeebers out of me and I became involved again...much more involved than I ever had with Kennedy because the Net allowed me an opportunity to learn more of the dark side of politics than I had known before by merely clicking a few keys...and I didn't like what I saw.

I have to think that even with other religious infiltrations into the process, it was never as bad as it is now. Being Methodist, I am more "live and let live" so this hatred and bigotry in the name of religion and as it pertains to politics, is over the top and a very uncomfortable place to be.

It is interesting to read the various opinions on this question. We all see politics in different ways, but I think the present-day political scene shows plainly why our forefathers declared that we should not mix religion in with our political process.

Now, if we could only get them to knock it off?

[Frustratedlady]

53. Thanks. I'll have to check that out at the library. eom

[dmallind]

5. Late 70s, started getting real power in the 80s

Backlash against hippy culture and the growth of political evangelism in the Southern Baptist fold and their associated Charismatic/Nondenominational wardmates. Schaffer and Graham and Robertson and Falwell were the big movers.

[Initech]

19. I was going to say McCarthy era.

The "you're with us or against us" attitude didn't start with George W. Bush - it started with Joseph McCarthy and when he began painting anyone he didn't agree with as anti American, that allowed the rise of religious conservatism - who still use that attitude.

[sinkingfeeling]

9. Around 1980.

[ieoeja]

10. When they replaced political conventions with primaries in the 1970s.

Jimmy Carter was the first candidate to attempt running in every primary. To do that, he needed an army of volunteers. He got together with the Christian Coalition, and it's been "Go God" ever since.

Of course, they turned on him in 1980. But Carter was the Christian Coalition/Moral Majority/Whatever first national success.

[Blue_In_AK]

11. Moral Majority -- Jerry Falwell

[AsahinaKimi]

65. Yes this..

He was the one who stated he wanted his people more involved with politics.. The IRS should have hit him right there with
back taxes..unpaid.

[AngryAmish]

12. Ask Mary Queen of Scots

[1-Old-Man]

26. +1

Now there's an answer with some class.

[Bok_Tukalo]

13. In Exodus, I believe

<OPE>

[MariaM83]

16. hahaha

[lpbk2713]

14. The other side made JFK's Catholicism a big issue in the 1960 election.

But it didn't get them anywhere. JFK won anyhow.

[RebelOne]

46. I voted for Kennedy. It was the first presidential election

in which I had ever voted. At the time, I was an Episcopalian (atheist now), but I did not vote for him on the grounds of religion. I just liked the man.

[lpbk2713]

59. My first time voting too.

I have voted for every Dem Presidential nominee ever since.

[MariaM83]

15. how about John Adams vs Tom Jefferson 1800

Adams's supporters slandered Jefferson as a godless atheist.

There were tales of black sabbath masses at Monticello where Jefferson was alleged to be sacrificing dogs on the altar.

[arely staircase]

24. black sabbath

i knew they were old, but geez looeez.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

29. Interesting. Of course, the slander may have been limited to Adam's supporters.

It is also noteworthy that Adams signed a treaty in 1797 with the Islamic state of Tripoli in which the United States officially disclaimed that America was in "any sense founded on the Christian Religion.

John Adams, the second U.S. President rejected the Trinity... and became a Unitarian. It was during Adams' presidency that the Senate ratified the Treaty of Peace and Friendship with Tripoli, which states in Article XI that:

As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion - as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen, - and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arrising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries. (Charles I. Bevans, ed. Treaties and Other International Agreements of the United States of America 1776-1949. Vol. 11: Philippines-United Arab Republic. Washington D.C.: Department of State Publications, 1974, p. 1072).

http://www.adherents.com/people/pa/John_Adams.html

[dimbear]

51. I believe this is the correct answer. Jefferson was the first victim here.

Survived pretty well, tho.

[lunatica]

18. Jerry Falwell made it political

[Ganja Ninja]

21. Sometime before the wheel was invented. n/t

[arely staircase]

22. well the op refered to religion being a force in politics and wondered when that happened

and i still maintain it has always been such. if the question is when did the religious right become a force in american politics, then the answer would be, imho, in the 1970s.

[RagAss]

23. The Roman Empire

[arely staircase]

37. egyptians beat them to it by thousands of years

the pharoe was concidered a god on earth.

[FSogol]

25. Right before prohibition

[Marr]

30. Rome?

[UTUSN]

31. Unfortunately, I have an exact, datable answer and it won't be popular here: Jimmy CARTER

While separation of politics and religion was generally observed through most of the country's history ("most&quot , the high point in the modern era was JFK's campaigning that his religion would not be a factor in his political leadership.
[FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"] [/FONT]

But Fundamentalism started catching the wind, and this is where I can put a date on it. In the [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]late Spring of 1969[/FONT], my second ship was anchored off the San Diego coast and the Liberty boat was ferrying us to the mainland for "Liberty" (R&R). The water and the sky were magnificently clear and deep blue. In the boat of about less than a dozen of us, all in our Whites (crackerjack sailor suits), there was this frowning, skinny, sour young dude staring intensely and grimacingly and with total fixation, fanaticism into his Bible. This was NO casual reading. And he was totally divorced from any interaction with anybody or any surroundings. I remember thinking, "Why doesn't he look up, maybe not at us, but at the beautiful sky and water that his God made?"

As far as I'm concerned, this was the first sign of the resurgence of religion outside of church buildings and into the rest of the compartments of social life. When I went back to school after the Navy in [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]1971[/FONT], the first wave Hippies I had known from 1965-67 had started fragmenting into specializations: Besides the anti-Vietnams were the pure Druggies and the Zen/Yoga and the Health Foods and ending with the Street People, but pertinently to the thread: the [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]Jesus Freaks[/FONT].

So here is the unpopular conviction I have regarding the unhealthy mingling of church and state: It was [FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: yellow"]Jimmy CARTER, 1976[/FONT], who institutionalized it. The Sunday School, the Bible carrying.

Even though I have continued to support him about as much as I have every other branch of Democratic member, the things I disagree with about him are stronger than almost all of the Democrats: Think about it, besides this religion thing, he gave us Tweety, Pat CADDELL, the co-founder of the Carlyle Group RUBENSTEIN (who also does stupendous charity), and most of all he gave us RAYGUN.

Sorry. But just to offend one of my other wings of myself, I have equal criticism of the McGOVERN legacy.

[UTUSN]

38. Kicking for visibility of *exact dates* - starting Spring of '69, culminating with CARTER 1976 n/t

[Frustratedlady]

39. But, I think they did the same with Carter that they did to Clinton and

are now doing to Obama.

They mocked Carter, partly through Billy and his beer drinking reputation/joking, so Carter had to take the edge off by professing his devotion to his church. The more they made fun of Billy, the more courage they got to pick at Amy, his fireside chats, his ideas and pulled all kinds of shenanigans on him.

At the time, I think the country needed Carter and his mild-mannered, soft-spoken ways to calm us down from the decade before. Carter has a good heart.

I think you are about right on the start of the present nastiness in government. But, I also think there is a certain faction of the South that hasn't forgotten the Civil War and hates seeing so many Blacks (and Hispanics) receiving entitlements. Obama has pushed their buttons and they can't be talked down on the subject. Perhaps bringing in religion makes them feel better about their bigotry and hate.

All DUrs from the South, please don't yell at me for saying that. I have many friends and relatives from the South and they agree. Right or wrong, that's the way I see it.

[UTUSN]

40. CARTER's religiousity is real and is not likely to have any connection to brother Billy or other

political things, unless he is totally less sincere than I give him credit for and is therefore a scheming, cunning thingamajig. His religiousity came BEFORE any political climate or personal jabs at him.

He came in with a certain amount of good feeling on most sides, even from Rethugs, because of the disgust over NIXON. He EARNED his own negativities that came later. Cher has reminisced about being one of the celebrities at private parties when he was inagurated and how everybody was full of hope, and when he talked about what he was going to do a sort of a let-down started, some kind of disappointing vibes that got stronger throughout his term.

There are a lot of different topics in your #39 post besides the original topic about religion in politics. I'm sticking to the religion/politics one, especially for being proud of myself for claiming special insight about the specific dates.

As I say, I am committed to CARTER the way I am to ALL Democrats, from all of the very different wings of the Democratic Party. I'll add about the negative things I listed about him in my previous post, the split with the Edward KENNEDY branch, and I'm still not all that clear what it was about. And then, besides giving RAYGUN the opening, the exodus of RAYGUN "Democrats" took place that I don't think has ever been reversed.

[Frustratedlady]

41. I'm sorry, I wasn't refuting what you said...

I just thought he "showed" his religious practices to tone down Billy's press, but that is only my opinion. I know he is very religious and has every right to be.

As for your insight in your original post, my husband had the same reaction when coming home from Korea. It must be a very emotional experience.

Bless you for your service.

[UTUSN]

45. No probs n/t

[Raine]

55. Yes, EXACTLY. That is when the slippy slope began

I still remember Carter carrying around his bible, teaching Sunday School etc. I like Carter but IMO this is when that all began.

[Nye Bevan]

32. Kerry's Catholicism was less of an issue than JFK's Catholicism

which is a good sign, I guess.

[treestar]

35. It always has - it comes and goes

Sort of recedes and then comes back. The Great Awakening, various religious movements. The latest one is the craziest, though. Just doesn't seem based on real religion. It's more of a cynical manipulation on the part of the right wing leaders.

[Motown_Johnny]

42. ~751 A.D.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_States


^snip^


When the Exarchate of Ravenna finally fell to the Lombards in 751, the Duchy of Rome was completely cut off from the Byzantine Empire, of which it was theoretically still a part. Pope Stephen II acted to neutralize the Lombard threat by courting the de facto Frankish ruler, Pepin the Short. With the urging of Pope Zachary to depose the Merovingian figurehead Childeric III, Pepin was crowned in 751 by Saint Boniface.

Stephen later granted Pepin the title Patrician of the Romans. Pepin led a Frankish army into Italy in 754 and 756. Pepin defeated the Lombards – taking control of northern Italy – and made a gift (called the Donation of Pepin) of the properties formerly constituting the Exarchate of Ravenna to the Pope.

In 781, Charlemagne codified the regions over which the Pope would be temporal sovereign: the Duchy of Rome was key, but the territory was expanded to include Ravenna, the Pentapolis, parts of the Duchy of Benevento, Tuscany, Corsica, Lombardy and a number of Italian cities. The cooperation between the Papacy and the Carolingian dynasty climaxed in 800, when Pope Leo III crowned Charlemagne the first "Emperor of the Romans" ('Augustus Romanorum').

[WorseBeforeBetter]

44. Watch the Ken Burns documentary "Prohibition"...

for a fascinating look at Drys (Protestants) v. Wets (Catholics), and the effect on politics and... the Constitution.

[LadyHawkAZ]

47. The dawn of humanity?

The noise level has increased because one candidate is outside mainstream Christianity and the other is perceived by some vocal racists to be not Christian at all. If they were both white Protestants it wouldn't be such a big deal.

[Cerridwen]

50. Which religion?

You'll find, throughout human history, events recorded and justified as "God's Will" or the "Will of the Gods."

I'd argue the millisecond after a human got away with justifying their anti-community action(s) as inspired and approved by a "Supreme" being, we saw the advent of organized "religion" used as a tool to justify "man's inhumanity to man."

In the U.S.? There is a book titled, "Under the Cope of Heaven". The author documents the ways the "religiously persecuted" used their own "religion" to persecute other religions during the "Colonial" period of the US. A quick example: A man must own x number of acres of land in order to vote in community meetings. Jewish males are allowed, by law, to buy x-1 acres of land. For some reason (sarcasm here), Jewish males never qualified to vote in community meetings. But, they were "never denied the right to vote."

George Orwell was student of history; not a prognosticator.

[Frustratedlady]

54. Thank you. I'll check out the book. eom

[craigmatic]

52. 1976 with Carter. That was when the evangelicals were on our side.

[Raine]

56. Unfortunatly with one of our party ... Jimmy Carter. nt

[CK_John]

57. You have to o back to 1620 at least. nt

[spanone]

58. moral majority

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_Majority

[Frustratedlady]

63. That piece explains the "wave" I guess I'm talking about. Thank you. eom

[undeterred]

60. 1990 or so

[ailsagirl]

61. Remember when it was deemed impolite to discuss religion or politics at the dinner table?

I miss those days.

Religion used to be a person thing-- not something to proselytize about.

[Frustratedlady]

62. I call them megaphone Christians...

It's almost like they just found religion and have to shout it out, or they shout it out because they aren't sure if they are truly a Christian and don't want anyone to question their faith.

I believe religion is a private issue.

[ailsagirl]

66. Good name!

(In my earlier post, I wrote 'person issue'--I meant 'personal issue,' FYI. I believe it started with the 'born again' Christians, back in the 60s, and it's been steadily growing since. I have a 'live and let live' approach--which really irks a friend who is deeply involved in the movement. She never gives up trying to bring me into the fold, and I have nicely told her over and over that I'm not a believer--at least I'm not willing to exchange my current life with that of a scripture-spouting, bible-toting, full-on Christian. She constantly tells me the end of the world is at hand, which I really don't care to hear! As you can imagine, it has driven quite a wedge between us.

[Evasporque]

64. The racists have used religion as a cloak...with Obama in the WH...they are pressing hard...

They can use religious beliefs to force more moderate haters to accept their extremist viewpoints...it is the same thing that has allowed the Taliban to rise in the Muslim world...extremist factions of a given religion are allowed to thrive in moderately religious communities...until....they reach a point where they seize control...then people regret allowing them to thrive.

Right now....American Christian fundamentalism has a undercurrent of racism, bigotry and a dangerous nationalistic thread...these are the foundations for the next human tragedy.