General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsMineralMan
(146,286 posts)KT2000
(20,576 posts)That is the discussion we need.
Baitball Blogger
(46,700 posts)NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)... but it's probably best that I keep quiet.) In the meantime... I'm forever grateful that you found (created?) this and shared it with everyone!
JimGinPA
(14,811 posts)Via my FB feed.
ThoughtCriminal
(14,047 posts)is deliberate misdirection.
TeamPooka
(24,221 posts)BigOleDummy
(2,270 posts)Very well said whoever wrote it.
BadgerMom
(2,770 posts)kentuck
(111,079 posts)...as it is a failure to communicate?
JimGinPA
(14,811 posts)There can't a true understanding without communication.
handmade34
(22,756 posts)dawg
(10,624 posts)Many people get defensive and misunderstand what is meant by terms like "privilege".
Igel
(35,300 posts)In academia and some discourses derived from academic discourses the words have a different meaning.
When a discipline redefines a word, it's on the discipline to make it understood.
But doing it as one article I saw earlier today (nowhere near DU or any discussion group) adopted the attitude that the "real" meaning of a word was what the author said it was and everybody else had fundamentally misunderstood it. Meaning, in other words, that the author had a fundamental misunderstanding, and a rather authoritarian one, at that, of how language works.
My field had periodic language wars so it's part of my intellectual DNA to look at definitions before even thinking of trying to have a semi-serious discussion. If you use a word and don't define it you could get yourself ripped new ones on all sides. It wasn't into groupthink at all. But as long as you defined the word and were meticulous in sticking to that definition people might grumble but it was perfectly fine. Those grumbling also bent over backwards to make sure that they were sticking to the meaning in the article or as defined for the conversation because otherwise the entire point of the discussion becomes submerged in an obvious, detestable, and utterly impassable swamp that leads to confusion and a lot of anger. Discussions can be power struggles in trying to decide who gets to use their own meanings, but usually they're resolved in a minute or two because one person uses more standardly defined words than the other. That's if people actually want to talk; if they just wanted to fight or be antagonistic that, of course, wouldn't happen--it would get in the way of the fight and hostility and we couldn't have that.
Problem is in many disciplines sticking to that stipulated, defined meaning is really difficult, and I've seen papers that relied crucially on shifting definitions. As soon as there's a rhetorical or academic advantage to letting the words of war slip their leash, there's a motivation to let the words of war slip and go out roaming the semantic fields in search of something to kill. When you're talking about periodization of language change between 2500 BCE and 1015 CE or how to analyze the semantics of a language and map the semantics onto a formal grammar in a rigorous one-to-one way that's quasi-mathematical, it's all rather abstract and has emotive meaning to very, very few people, so it happens less. But it happens.
And when it comes to definitions in some fields (esp. when it's versus the public that's to be re-educated) it is even more of a power struggle, one that may never be resolved well enough to actually get around to starting actual communication of propositions.
annabanana
(52,791 posts)"I don't know what you mean by 'glory'," Alice said.
Humpty Dumpty smiled contemptuously. "Of course you don't- till I tell you. I meant 'there's a nice knock-down argument for you!'"
"But 'glory' doesn't mean 'a nice knock-down argument'," Alice objected.
"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean- neither more nor less."
"The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things."
"The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master-that's all."
Alice was too much puzzled to say anything; so after a minute Humpty Dumpty began again. "They've a temper some of them- particularly verbs: they're the proudest- adjectives you can do anything with, but not verbs- however, I can manage the whole lot of them! Impenetrability! That's what I say!"
calimary
(81,220 posts)I'm always interested in WHERE on earth people get, or come up with, these rationales.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)Last edited Wed Sep 13, 2017, 12:22 PM - Edit history (1)
and someone comes back and says white lives matter, I have no problem, because I will say all lives matter as long all lives include black lives of men women and children FIRST. since black lives have not mattered since the Slaverery-Segregation Eras that still controls the opinions of millions of racists when AA is mentioned. I have found that the 'white lives matters' people usually don't care about any one but people of their own race and that they could give a damn less about black lives....those who should be ashamed are those who use their white privilege to the detriment of minorities like the coming edicts from an AG that is an avowed racist and segregationist from early 60's and was proven so in 86' where he was deemed unfit for a federal judgeship because of his racist background and statements made. And now a potus that has made it abundantly clear, only white lives matter, which has always been the case in ameriKKKa.
WHAT CAN BE DONE? If racism and hate are what has driven a country's culture for generation and now, again, it's potus and his administration. Vote em out? Sure and after that only white people can address detrimental white privilege and feelings of entitlement based on THEIR skin color and the hate and fear they might feel toward minorities because they may have to share EQUALLY with those minorities, AA especially.....good post, should make some people start thinking, maybe
Stellar
(5,644 posts)''Hands-up, don't shoot' meant 'police brutality'.
https://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/kristine-marsh/2017/07/27/do-you-know-what-hands-dont-shoot-means-view-lectures-ferguson
KY_EnviroGuy
(14,490 posts)I've noticed a trend over the last several years where increasingly, many folks seem to hear things with a bias of suspicion. In other words, their brains seem to ask "how can this harm me" when hearing statements directed to them. I'm stating that because of the reactions I get from people, who many times respond to seemingly innocuous comments with a harsh or "upside down" reaction.
Previously, I would notice that sort of response only from people who had reason to be highly suspicious - say, those who had been in abusive relationship or abused as a child, or someone that had been in prison.
I think we have a lot of work to do toward rehabilitating our collecting mode of thinking about one another. If we don't work toward restoring trust in our fellow man, then we may be doomed to anarchy, or the other end of the spectrum - a dictatorship.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)barbtries
(28,787 posts)keep hammering the point home i guess. white resistance to the facts includes many knee-jerk reactions to these simple statements of fact.
orleans
(34,049 posts)if i say "donald trump is an asshole and he sucks"
and you think i mean "i can't stand trump because i think he's an asshole"
then we're having a meeting of the minds
MarvinGardens
(779 posts)mjvpi
(1,388 posts)Fear and defensive. I live in Montana. I have found that if I talk people through that process, most times we agree. How's this for a generality. The conversation is shorter, if even needed , with Demacrats.
yuiyoshida
(41,831 posts)A. Fox News
B. Fox News
C. Fox News
D. Fox News
IronLionZion
(45,429 posts)because they benefit from the privilege and power over others and don't want it to change. It's not a misunderstanding, it's deliberately maintaining the status quo.
The struggle is real. I just met a black woman yesterday who always keeps her license out whenever driving because she doesn't want to be rummaging through her purse if pulled over.