Interesting development (or maybe not): Zimmerman implicated in molestation of younger relative

[TalkingDog]

This allegedly happened between the ages of 6 and 16 for the young girl with Zimmerman being 2 years older.

http://www.wbtv.com/story/19034201/a-young-zimmerman-implicated-in-alleged-molestation-of-relative

A woman apparently related to the neighborhood watch captain who admitted to shooting and killing 17-year-old Trayvon Martin told police she was molested by him multiple times as a child.

The startling accusations come from "witness 9," who said George Zimmerman touched her inappropriately "when we got together for family gatherings."

"It started when I was 6, he's almost about two years older than I am," witness 9 said in an interview released by the prosecution. "He would put his hands under my pants, under my underwear."

She told police the abuse ended when she was 16 years old and mentioned another alleged victim, but would not give the other victim's name.

/snip

[OverseaVisitor]

1. He is an ugly representation

of a human being.

And it sadden me to see how flaw the system is.

[enough]

2. I don't understand how this is connected to the trial for the murder of Trayvon Martin.

In what sense can she be a witness in this trial? Sounds like they're going to try him for two different crimes simultaneously.

[TalkingDog]

3. I don't think the allegations have anything to do with the murder charge.

I would suggest however, that if it is true, it speaks to some psychopathy in Zimmerman.

[slackmaster]

17. Much of the prosecution's case seems to be based on impugning Zimmerman's character

Which would make it easier to get the jury to disbelieve Zimmerman's attempt exculpatory account of what happened.

They're basically going to paint a picture of Zimmerman as a bad person. Then they'll have to challenge his story and present an alternative narrative.

Because there are no living witnesses who got a good close-up view of the final minute or two leading up to the shooting, that's probably their best strategy for getting a conviction.

[SugarShack]

52. Well it certainly points to a personality that will abuse others....and children??? You for real?

[mzmolly]

4. Sociopath,

much?

He is a P.O.S.

[pipoman]

5. Geez really?

When he was 8? I mean, sorry if she was victimized...if she was victimized...but why bring it up now?

[csziggy]

7. The witness contacted authorities to tell them Zimmerman was racist

From the link in the OP:

The witness also told police Zimmerman was known to be prejudiced against African Americans.

She said she had never seen Zimmerman act on his bias, but she knew his family didn't "like black people if they don't act like white people. They like black people if they act white."

Growing up, the witness said Zimmerman's mother, father and siblings were all known to disapprove of African American people.

She recalled one incident after President Barack Obama was elected when Zimmerman's mother proclaimed she didn't like Obama because he is African American. She told the witness that she was a racist, "Just loud and proud."

Her original intent was to tell the police about that, indicating that Zimmerman was lying when he claimed he was not racist. I get the feeling that once they began to question her the rest of the information came out.

[LisaL]

10. But when asked about it, she didn't provide any examples of how Zimmerman supposedly was

racist. An example provided was about his mother, not Zimmerman personally.

[csziggy]

28. She gave an example of how the entire Zimmerman family was racist

I would expect that would apply to George as well as to his mother.

[LisaL]

35. What example? Do tell.

[csziggy]

49. It's in the article linked in the OP

She said she had never seen Zimmerman act on his bias, but she knew his family didn't "like black people if they don't act like white people. They like black people if they act white."

Growing up, the witness said Zimmerman's mother, father and siblings were all known to disapprove of African American people.

How much clearer do her comments have to be?

[pipoman]

12. One of the first things a criminal investigator

tries to determine when he/she finds a witness favorable to the prosecution is if the witness may have any ulterior motive for giving the statement/helping the prosecution. This sounds like just such a motive. It brings doubt to the evidence. Did she tell anyone 20 years ago when it was happening? If a person is charged, I have seen very old enemies fall out of the woodwork trying to hurt the defendant.

I too think it is interesting that her example had to do with his elderly mother and not him. I certainly wouldn't want my views on much of anything expressed by my parents, nor would I want my mindset to be determined by anyone but me. Last I heard the police had interviewed all of his friends, acquaintances, co-workers, and even the investigating detective, and all have said he isn't motivated by racism. If the only person saying he is happens to be someone who dislikes him for other reasons, it is a bit non-persuasive.

[csziggy]

27. You could be right - I was just bringing up her original motivation

For coming forward at this time.

As for your comment. "Last I heard the police had interviewed all of his friends, acquaintances, co-workers, and even the investigating detective, and all have said he isn't motivated by racism." You must have missed the statement by one of his workers who said he was bullied by Zimmerman at a former job:

George Zimmerman Bullied Former Colleague, Complaint Says
By MATT GUTMAN (@mattgutmanABC)
SANFORD, Fla., June 26, 2012

One of George Zimmerman's former colleagues at CarMax, where he worked in 2008, complained formally about the man who killed Florida teen Trayvon Martin, alleging serial hazing that lasted for months and included pranks and ethnic jokes.

When the salesman complained to management, Zimmerman denied the harassment.

"The guy was so convincing when he was confronted by management to the point where I doubted my own self. I would not be surprised if he got away with it [Martin murder accusation]."

The employee, who is an Arab-American, worked part time at the used car retailership during 2008, and rose quickly to become one of the company's top salesmen, despite the hazing, he says.

More: http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-bullied-colleague-complaint/story?id=16658024#.UASxOdnHlhs

The talent for manipulation matches the story the female relative describes for Zimmerman:

The woman said that she had been traumatized by what happened and that she had been too ashamed to tell anyone, including her parents. But she said she also feared that no one would believe her because Mr. Zimmerman came across as so likable.

“He was always very charming and personable with everyone in the family and would always just laugh and entertain everybody,” she said. “But he was different behind closed doors with me.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/17/us/george-zimmerman-accused-of-molesting.html

[mzmolly]

11. ...until he was 18.

She brought it up because of his history of intimidation, lying, manipulation and anti-social behavior presumably?

[pipoman]

13. This, assuming it is true, wouldn't prove any of those things...

in and of itself..

[mzmolly]

14. Yes it

would. Read the article, please.

[pipoman]

15. OK, I read it..

it is meaningless in the context of his charges. Not admissible. Even if it were it would not prove anything about anything. If it were admissible, it still wouldn't prove it true. It is just one of the volumes of useless information documented by police investigators during the coarse of a typical criminal investigation. I would venture that this witness will never be used or called by the prosecution...at least based on the information in this article.

[mzmolly]

16. I also doubt that it is admissible.

But (if true) it is meaningful in terms of his character. There are several unpleasant stories circulating about Mr. Zimmerman. It will be interesting to see what is admissible, in a court of law.

[pipoman]

19. I am not defending him or what he did or didn't do..

When someone is in their 30's, nothing that they did while a juvenile really says anything about them, or their character as an adult. Very, very few people can withstand a microscope of their lives without some less than pleasant things arising. There are probably many people who would be great politicians if they didn't mind the microscope. Think about the police interviewing every person you have ever known and asking them questions about you...She isn't credible based on the info in this story.

[mzmolly]

20. Regarding the microscope you speak of ...

I've never sexually victimized another person, in my life.

I've never tossed strangers across a room.

http://www.womensmediacenter.com/feature/entry/martin-zimmerman-tragedycould-it-have-been-prevented

I've never bullied co-workers, because of their heritage, or for any other reason.

http://www.abcactionnews.com/dpp/news/local_news/investigations/i-team-former-co-worker-says-george-zimmerman-was-a-bully

I've never been charged with resisting arrest.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/03/30/1079338/-Zimmerman-s-05-arrest-Resisting-offices-Obstructing-justice-a-felony-sentence-Anger-Managemet

I've never bragged on a myspace page about friends taking a rap for me, and doing a year in jail because of it.

Another line suggested his friends went to jail and did not rat him out. “They do a year and dont ever open thier [sic] mouth to get my ass pinched.” ~ Zimmerman

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/05/01/2778234/myspace-page-is-latest-salvo-in.html#storylink=cpy

I, unlike Zimmerman, do not have a history of victimizing my fellow human beings. So, please don't ever compare me to George Zimmerman again.

Further, Zimmerman was 18 when his assaults on the person in question ended. In case you've forgotten, that's an adult by any standard. According to the article, the abuse ended because the victim refused to be around him.

"She isn't credible based on the info in this story."

How did you come to this conclusion?

[pipoman]

22. You nor I know,

"Zimmerman was 18 when his assaults on the person in question ended.", because the only info we have to go on is this quote, "It started when I was 6, he's almost about two years older than I am," and, "She told police the abuse ended when she was 16 years old".

Please point out where I "compare me to George Zimmerman again".. I know, you can't, because I didn't.

I haven't been following the case that closely...at a glance most of these quotes have no significance in this case...not to mention their completely devoid of proof...they are daily news fodder..

[mzmolly]

29. "Think about the police interviewing every person you have ever known and asking them questions..."

That was a comparison.

You said -

"I haven't been following the case that closely...at a glance most of these quotes have no significance in this case...not to mention their completely devoid of proof...they are daily news fodder.."

Most of the people and information you dismiss is on the record. Depositions or testimony have been provided. A judge and/or jury, will determine the significance.

[pipoman]

32. No, first a prosecutor will determine the significance..

if it will help, hurt, or just muddy the waters for them. Let's say this witness' dad was the Grand Wizard? Doubtful, but witness credibility is a significant part of every criminal trial.

"Think about the police interviewing every person you have ever known and asking them questions..."

That was a comparison.

No. That is an example. Most people can think of people in their past or present who would not portray them well if asked by a police investigator...some may actually make shit up...the police know this and so do judges and prosecutors. Did you steal the neighbor girl's boyfriend 20 years ago? Did you report a co-worker for a rules violation 3 jobs back? Were you fired for cause from any job? Did you go through a bad divorce? Did you call animal control on the neighbor's dog 6 1/2 years ago?

So you get a witness on the stand and the only people who know for sure what is true or false is the witness and the defendant. The witness makes a proclamation, "he molested me", the prosecutor can't use others to collaborate this because the witness told nobody. Now the defense gets to question the witness. Isn't it true that you have accused at least 4 other's of molesting you? (the defense knows because the accused knows everything about this person in minute details, and the police spoke to her for an hour or 2, if that) Witness: Well, yes.. (Prosecutor is picking himself off the floor). Not everyone questioned by police are used as witnesses in the trial, in fact outside of Hollywood trials, there has to be a very direct link between testimony and the criminal charges.

Lastly, there are no depositions in criminal cases except in unusual cases such as an illness which may make the witness unavailable for the trial, or if the witness is a minor..There has been no testimony that I am aware of taken in this case. No, the things listed are the raw product of the criminal investigator's reports, or news reports based on people the news reporters spoke to...people never lie to reporters...

The first link: "None of the cases was exhaustively investigated, so we can't know what actually happened at this point."

Second link: "“You describe him as a bully?” an investigator asks the unnamed former co-worker. “Yes,” he replies. "And did you feel bias towards yourself? “Yes, and that is because I was an easy target for him,” the former co-worker responds." Meaningless, not admissible, without much more and some way to collaborate..maybe the person has made these claims at every job he has worked at against others who have no history..we can't know at this point.

Third link. There may actually be something usable in that case..testimony or some such..admissibility is another question.

Forth link: I don't know. Isn't Zimmerman Hispanic?

No matter how you slice it, none of your links include depositions or testimony, they are news stories..

[mzmolly]

36. The prosecution released the information

above, which is how the media knows about it.

Most people can think of people in their past or present who would not portray them well if asked by a police investigator...some may actually make shit up...the police know this and so do judges and prosecutors. Did you steal the neighbor girl's boyfriend 20 years ago? Did you report a co-worker for a rules violation 3 jobs back? Were you fired for cause from any job? Did you go through a bad divorce? Did you call animal control on the neighbor's dog 6 1/2 years ago?

So, you're equating a history of criminal behavior, violence and sexual assault, to trivial matters such as - most people know someone who doesn't like them? Am I understanding you correctly?

So you get a witness on the stand and the only people who know for sure what is true or false is the witness and the defendant. The witness makes a proclamation, "he molested me", the prosecutor can't use others to collaborate this because the witness told nobody. Now the defense gets to question the witness. Isn't it true that you have accused at least 4 other's of molesting you? (the defense knows because the accused knows everything about this person in minute details, and the police spoke to her for an hour or 2, if that) Witness: Well, yes.. (Prosecutor is picking himself off the floor). Not everyone questioned by police are used as witnesses in the trial, in fact outside of Hollywood trials, there has to be a very direct link between testimony and the criminal charges.

The witness did tell someone. I refer you back to the article, again. Your absurd suggestion that the accuser in this case, made other accusations, is completely unfounded. Further the article indicates that there were more victims.

Lastly, there are no depositions in criminal cases except in unusual cases such as an illness which may make the witness unavailable for the trial, or if the witness is a minor..There has been no testimony that I am aware of taken in this case. No, the things listed are the raw product of the criminal investigator's reports, or news reports based on people the news reporters spoke to...people never lie to reporters...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deposition_%28law%29

"Depositions are a part of the discovery process in which litigants gather information in preparation for trial. Some jurisdictions recognize an affidavit as a form of deposition, sometimes called a "deposition upon written questions." The routine practice of obtaining the oral evidence of a witness before trial is foreign to common law jurisdictions such as England, Australia and New Zealand. Having the right to pose oral questions to opposing parties in litigation before trial developed in Canada and the United States in the nineteenth century."

You should follow the case more closely, given your zealous defense of Mr. Zimmerman.

The first link: "None of the cases was exhaustively investigated, so we can't know what actually happened at this point."

How can you make such a claim?

Second link: "“You describe him as a bully?” an investigator asks the unnamed former co-worker. “Yes,” he replies. "And did you feel bias towards yourself? “Yes, and that is because I was an easy target for him,” the former co-worker responds." Meaningless, not admissible, without much more and some way to collaborate..maybe the person has made these claims at every job he has worked at against others who have no history..we can't know at this point.

Polish up those investigative skills you have and do some googling. You'll see that your suggestions are completely unfounded. "We" can and do "know at this point." The accuser in this case, brought the matter to his superiors. The accuser also had co-workers support his claims.

Third link. There may actually be something usable in that case..testimony or some such..admissibility is another question.

I'm going to defer to the judge about what is admissible or not.

Forth link: I don't know. Isn't Zimmerman Hispanic?

He's Peruvian and Jewish. I have no idea if he self identifies as Hispanic or not. Nor do I care.

No matter how you slice it, none of your links include depositions or testimony, they are news stories..

Uhm, I'm not here to try the case. I'm here to discuss it. The "news stories" are based upon the "evidence" that has been released and includes depositions, witness statements, police reports etc. Thus the report entitled "Witness 9" claims George Zimmerman sexually molested her" http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57472994-504083/george-zimmerman-witness-9-claims-trayvon-martin-shooter-sexually-molested-her/

[pipoman]

38. You are not understanding anything I am saying correctly..

So, you're equating a history of criminal behavior, violence and sexual assault, to trivial matters such as - most people know someone who doesn't like them? Am I understanding you correctly?

My whole post is an attempt to illustrate how this and every criminal case evolves...in real life, in every jurisdiction outside of CA. I have made no proclamations. This is about snatching you from the grasp of CSI and the OJ trial to the reality of our criminal justice system..outside of CA. For instance, this will probably be a 4-7 day trial, neither side will be calling 250 witnesses.

Your wiki link proves my point.."litigant" is a word used in civil cases. Read on down the page..seems there is a paragraph about criminal application..

How can you make such a claim?

It's not a claim, it is a direct quote from the article you linked to..

"Uhm, I'm not here to try the case. I'm here to discuss it. The "news stories" are based upon the "evidence" that has been released and includes depositions, witness statements, police reports etc. Thus the report entitled "Witness 9" claims George Zimmerman sexually molested her" http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57472994-504083/george-zimmerman-witness-9-claims-trayvon-martin-shooter-sexually-molested-her/

Where does it say anything about depositions? Witness statements and police reports..yep..It is raw data. It is criminal discovery. The volume of reports will fill many file boxes, the statements of hundreds of people. Yet the trial transcript with exhibits won't fill one. The prosecution will call less than 20 witnesses total (probably a lot less). Most have already been dismissed by prosecutors for reasons similar to those examples used in my posts, but they will not tell the defense what they will use and what they won't. They will release a witness list as the trial draws near. The witness list will be people summoned to testify in the case, most will never be called to the stand. If the defense is good, they will have already spoken to every witness and know what they will be saying (this is where poor defendants really get hurt, no money for a good investigation). The defense will develop a strategy based on information about the prosecutions case as it becomes available.

People don't like the criminal defense, without them our justice system would be impossible. In many ways our criminal justice system is a very complex game...it is beyond comprehension to some people..

[mzmolly]

41. If you're going to discuss a case, with such zest,

familiarize yourself the the basics, please. Re: the wiki quote/link I noted, you failed to read the part that pertained to criminal cases, and pre-trial prep. Florida is one of the few of states, that permits depositions in criminal cases. I know of at least one witness who was deposed in this case.

A Florida attorney breaks it down in simple terms: http://www.ericmathenylaw.com/Criminal-Defense-Blog/2010/July/Depositions.aspx

Florida is one of just a handful of states that permits depositions in criminal cases. Most states only permit the taking of depositions in civil cases.

We are lucky that our state permits criminal defense attorneys (and prosecutors) to take sworn testimony from witnesses, both civilian and officer, in all felony cases. Traditionally, depositions are not allowed in misdemeanor cases unless good cause is shown by the party wishing to take the deposition.

A deposition is an opportunity for an attorney to ask questions of a witness while the witness is under oath. Depositions are recorded by court reporters and then transcribed so that the attorneys may later cross-examine these witnesses based on the testimony they gave during their deposition.

Regardless, the investigative interviews are compelling enough. Your assertion that the prosecution doesn't have the evidence to convict Zimmerman is based upon nothing more than your love of guns. Pull yourself away from Guns and Ammo for a minute and contrast Zimmerman's statements on the record, to the 911 calls. That will give you a good start on filling that empty box of yours.

I've studied this case quite closely. You suggesting that I need to peel myself away from CSI, is laughable given your apparent lack of knowledge. I've never watched an episode of CSI, but I have read over 300 pages of evidence released in the Zimmerman case. Enough to fill a box, I'd say.

Previously, you suggested "everyone who knows the guy and those who interviewed him say he isn't a racist."

You were wrong.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002938019#post5

[pipoman]

43. I have never once said,

"that the prosecution doesn't have the evidence to convict Zimmerman". It is the wishful thinkers who believe this (or any criminal case for that matter) is a slamdunk for the prosecution, or that the raw investigative data reported on by the media is beyond reproach who are wrong. Whether he is convicted or not doesn't matter to me...hopefully justice is done, it isn't always. By the time this goes to trial you will barely recognize the 300 pages you've read...by then there will be thousands of pages released in discovery.

Ultimately we'll see what happens. If the case had Las Vegas odds, I would bet it's even money at this point...could go either way. Until then, we'll agree to disagree.

BTW...you know nothing about me, quit pretending that you do.

[mzmolly]

47. You know nothing about me

and started the "pretending" stuff, I might add.

I think Zimmerman's odds of a conviction are 80/20 in favor of the prosecution.

Yes, we'll have to agree to disagree.

Cheers.

[mzmolly]

21. "When someone is in their 30's, nothing that they did while a juvenile really says anything ...

about them, or their character as an adult."

That's highly debatable.

http://suite101.com/article/early-signs-of-antisocial-personal-a29191

[pipoman]

33. Now he has a Psychiatric Disorder?

and that disorder is "antisocial". I have seen nothing to indicate any such thing. In fact, from the OP: "Everyone loved him and he made everyone happy," she said. "I knew that if I said anything he would just deny it.". Antisocial?

No, most juvenile history is not admissible, especially if the defendant is over 25...and then it has to be closely related to the criminal charge.

[mzmolly]

37. Let me refer you back to your dismissive statement.

"When someone is in their 30's, nothing that they did while a juvenile really says anything about them, or their character as an adult."

Though you appear to equate molestation, and criminal violence, with throwing a temper tantrum, most people in our society do not. Most people would consider what has been reported about George Zimmerman, as a child and an adult, significant, anti-social behavior.

I'm not in a position to diagnose Mr. Zimmerman. Though perhaps when he's charged with murder, his attorney will consider a psychiatric defense?

[pipoman]

39. This is contrary...completely with antisocial behavior..

"Everyone loved him and he made everyone happy,", antisocial people aren't loved by everybody and they aren't known for their happiness spreading..

There is a lot of interesting speculation out there. He has proven to be not so bright. I view this as an interesting case to watch regardless the outcome. This isn't a slam dunk either way. The tragedy of Travon Martin's death and that George Zimmerman shot him are the only things we really know at this time.

[mzmolly]

40. No, it isn't contrary.

Were it, people like Ted Bundy would not have been able to con his victims.

I doubt your investigative cred, I'm sorry to say.

[pipoman]

45. I didn't say anti-social can't act...they are great actors

they have difficulty with long term interpersonal relationships, and that is contrary to what the witness states.

Have your doubt. I know what I know, and from this exchange, I know what you don't know.

[mzmolly]

46. So you think the witness had warm feelings

for Mr. Zimmerman? This is why she stopped attending family events?

I'm not basing my opinion on Mr. Zimmerman on ONE witness. I'm basing my opinion on his character on a pattern of events and interactions.

[pipoman]

56. Go back and read what was written..nobody would read that

and come to this ridiculous conclusion..ffs

[mzmolly]

58. What

conclusion?

The article describes Zimmerman as a frightening con - who sexually molested his younger cousin. If you consider that a likable portrait, you are in the minority.

[pipoman]

60. You didn't go back and read

the quote I have posted twice..

[mzmolly]

61. I read the quote

in context. Thus the "con" description of Mr. Zimmerman.

[Occulus]

25. I've seen people here bend themselves into knots defend this racist thug,

but you really take the cake.

PLONK.

[pipoman]

26. We all develop our beliefs from our life's experience..

you developed yours and I developed mine through 20 years as a criminal investigator...I know what will and will not fly in a criminal courtroom..you can wish that to be defense of this person all you want..

Maybe you, like the majority, don't have the foggiest clue about burden in legal (especially criminal) cases..

[mzmolly]

30. As a criminal investigator

surely you've taken into account a "pattern" of anti-social behavior, when it comes to those you're investigating?

[pipoman]

31. It depends if I am trying to

determine who is responsible, or if I am gathering evidence for trial.

[mzmolly]

34. Regardless,

the best indicator or future behavior is past behavior.

[uppityperson]

54. Are you meaning only "legally" that nothing a person did as a juvi says anything about them...

"When someone is in their 30's, nothing that they did while a juvenile really says anything about them, or their character as an adult."

Are you meaning only legally, in court of law, at a trial? Or do you mean in real life?

These are 2 different things and I'd like you to clarify which you mean. Thank you.

[pipoman]

55. No, in court..

I have seen juvenile records used for like crimes up to age 25..(may be a state thing, often states have similar procedures based on case law)...particularly if the juvenile crime was a felony.

[uppityperson]

57. Thank you. Seems many DUers are meaning in real life which is different as in real life of course

how you are, what you've done, as a juvi affects how/what as an adult.

Perhaps clarifying to those jumping on you might help. Thanks for clarifying for me as now I don't have to join them.

I agree, Legally it holds no water. And legally it probably has nothing to do with his killing Trayvon (court case). But as a person in real life? He's looking more and more scummy all the time.

[pipoman]

59. I completely agree

he has shown through the whole bail fiasco that he is dishonest and stupid or naive to talk on a freaking jail phone as if it were some kind of secure connection..This statement is the only part of the OP which may have any meaning in the context of these criminal charges, and it is too vague to even be applicable..this witness will never be a witness if this is all she has. Yet people want to act as though this is the final nail for him...and can't seem to understand why it is meaningless..There are and will be many things that the media will dwell upon because it makes a good story, which in the context of the trial are either completely meaningless as this is or is trivial..I understand the emotion, there is supposed to be a disconnect from emotion when considering the merits of a legal action...

The witness also told police Zimmerman was known to be prejudiced against African Americans.

She said she had never seen Zimmerman act on his bias, but she knew his family didn't "like black people if they don't act like white people. They like black people if they act white."

Growing up, the witness said Zimmerman's mother, father and siblings were all known to disapprove of African American people.

She recalled one incident after President Barack Obama was elected when Zimmerman's mother proclaimed she didn't like Obama because he is African American. She told the witness that she was a racist, "Just loud and proud."

[uppityperson]

62. Though, if you are having fun snarking back and forth up there, have at it.

I enjoy it sometimes. But have tired of it recently.

It may be legally meaningless, but gives validation to those who have been proclaiming Zimmy's awfulness all the way along.

[pipoman]

63. Sometimes I do enjoy it..

this one has worn me out and isn't fun any longer. It wasn't until tonight that I felt I snarked at all...at least to the degree I have snarked in the past. I learned that FL is one of very few states which allows for depositions (beyond extraordinary conditions) in criminal matters. This lead me to think about how that would have effected my job. I believe it would have changed the outcome of many cases. This interesting concept has made the thread worthwhile for me and is one reason I come to DU.

[mzmolly]

64. For the record,

the person you're responding to went above and beyond commenting on the context of a court outcome vs. real life. Further, defending Zimmerman seems be a common theme for the party in question.

I, on the other hand, am not a fan of Mr. Zimmerman, which is likely quite apparent.

[uppityperson]

65. For the record, I am capable of reading all the replies in this thread but thank you for trying to

simplify it for me.

I am capable of reading.

[mzmolly]

66. Sure.

But, it didn't appear that you had read all the replies.

[uppityperson]

67. Oh, I read them all. Just came to a different conclusion after clarifying a few things.

[mzmolly]

68. I said above that I didn't feel the accusations were admissible in a court of law.

I went on to say, regardless I felt that the character of Zimmerman was at issue.

The response I received was:

When someone is in their 30's, nothing that they did while a juvenile really says anything about them, or their character as an adult. Very, very few people can withstand a microscope of their lives without some less than pleasant things arising. There are probably many people who would be great politicians if they didn't mind the microscope. Think about the police interviewing every person you have ever known and asking them questions about you...She isn't credible based on the info in this story.

Does it sound to you like this person was discussing the court case, or Mr. Zimmerman? Sounded to me like someone was defending Zimmerman, and suggesting that at age 18 he was still a juvenile.

You're welcome to come to a different conclusion that I. But the comments that were made went beyond the court case, IMHO.

Peace

[uppityperson]

69. Which is why I asked and clarified. I was ready to jump his shit, but clarified and understand

Internets communication can be odd sometimes.

[mzmolly]

70. Ahh.

Internets communication can be odd sometimes.

Most true.

[mzmolly]

48. B

ravo.

[longship]

6. Is this even admissible at trial?

Lawyers? Please help with my question.

I always understood that stuff like this is not admissible. Am I wrong?

Plus, releasing this kind of fucks up the jury pool against Zimmerman. If I were his defense attorney, I would be livid.

Note that I am not taking Zimm's side here, just making some observations given what I may mistakenly know about rules of evidence, jury bias, etc.

Thanks, lawyers, or anybody else who knows this shit more than I do.

[LisaL]

8. No, I don't think it's admissible at trial.

She is alleging something that supposedly first happened when Zimmerman was 8 years old. And it has nothing to do with the case in question. His defense lawyer tried to stop release of this information but it was released anyway.

[TalkingDog]

9. I don't think it will even come up in a trial. I only posted it because it may speak

to his character.

[slackmaster]

18. Probably not, but the defense will have to explicitly move for it to be ruled as inadmissable

And the jury, if they have been exposed to the story, will be instructed to disregard it along with anything else they have seen or heard outside of the controlled conditions of the trial.

ON EDIT: Both sides are basically trying to poison the well of the potential jury pool. IMO this revelation will up the ante - Expect the defense to result information that reflects negatively on Trayvon or his family.

Oh yeah, they've already done that. Google tracy martin tattoos.

[longship]

23. Both Lisabeth Salander and Nils Bjurman would object to the tattoo argument.

Very

[Seeking Serenity]

24. Trying to taint the jury pool, perhaps? (n/t)

[mzmolly]

42. Gathering evidence and releasing it

per Florida law, perhaps?

[SugarShack]

53. good point, they're trying to protect him from the beginning, when he ignored law enforcement

and they will continue until they get him off. I wonder what he knows about other abuses?

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

44. Looks kind of like a smear campaign ...

This is obviously irrelevent to the events that transpired the night Trayvon was killed. I think the person making these claims should be investigated to see what kinds of connections she has.

[mzmolly]

50. Connections?

Her connections lead back to Zimmerman. Zimmerman's defense website, indicates that his cousin made the accusations.

http://gzlegalcase.com/index.php/press-releases/39-zimmerman-defense-responds-to-witness-9-statements

I think the person making these claims should be investigated to see what kinds of connections she has.

Investigated for what, exactly?

[liberalmuse]

51. More proof needed, however...

I wouldn't be all that surprised. He has shown that he is not an honorable human being in the least. At most, he is a cold-blooded murderer, and strikes me as being some of the worst human kind has to offer. Not surprising at all. I hope that if this is true, the victim will become vindicated in some way.