General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsAn apology and two small clarifications.
1) I shouldn't have posted at all on the subject I posted about yesterday. It was too likely to go wrong and I made it go wrong. I should have said nothing;
2) My posts were NOT a defense of the invitation of Bernie to speak-it wasn't my place to either defend the invitation OR condemn it;
3) I never meant to say that no women today were qualified to speak at a Women't Conference-that would be a ridiculous thing to say and I'm horrified that I managed to make it sound like that was my message.
I'm sorry.
Cary
(11,746 posts)Perhaps you might try being more positive?
sheshe2
(83,760 posts)https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029708026#top
You can't take away our dignity. One voice. Our voice. Now.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)And I agree that women should speak out.
melman
(7,681 posts)It won't make people that target you stop doing it. Bullies never respond that way. If anything, they see it as a sign of weakness and double down.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)but I have to agree with your advice.
sheshe2
(83,760 posts)And I thank you for the thumbs up you gave it.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)I rarely look at a thread after it gets really long lol.
Ill take a deep breath and dive in. Thanks.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)In this case, I entered a discussion I should not have entered into.
Demsrule86
(68,576 posts)the street. This is not 1968 and such tactics won't work. There is no discussion, you shouldn't enter into, but calling the Woman's movement leaders right wing was perhaps not a good move and not true either. I don't mind a good discussion. But you have to understand, it is personal for us. We have watched our rights be taken away...abortion, birth control and equal pay. We have lost ground. And even progressive politicians like Sen Sanders have suggested that identity politics need to take a backseat to economic policies.I will tell you this. There will be no economic justice for women or other minorities without social justice...no matter the economics. Mello and Perriello were championed by Sen. Sanders and some Democratic politicians. Neither should ever have been endorsed by any progressive or Democrat. This is and was a bitter pill. While I understand, there will be pro-life politicians in the Democratic Party, the line in the sand has been about voting for such policies, both Mello and Perriello did so. At the same time, we are being lectured by folks like " I will support Greens and Republicans" Nina Turner over what we have to accept in our Party...obviously she is not a Democrat and I say fuck what she has to say. I have no interest.
It seems to me that this entire discussion has become a ' because I told you so' kind of fight...one man gives the marching orders and the rest of us are supposed to fall in line or turn in our 'progressive' card. We are supposed to abandon our Democratic principals and for what? There is no clear strategy that I can see. Well it is not going to happen. And the Woman's convention fiasco is an example of attempting to use Democratic institutions and the fight for equality to promote views not shared by the majority of Democratic women (all those Democratic women elected are just not good enough to be the opening speaker) and to promote a specific 2020 primary candidate. It shouldn't have happened and shows a complete lack of judgement. I overlooked the slight to Hillary Clinton in the Woman's march...it was close to the election and inauguration... feelings were running high. She was the 2016 Democratic nominee and while I want no candidate who ran in 16 to run in 20, all should be treated respectfully by all progressives. Having Sen. Sanders as the opening speaker at what is supposed to be a Women's convention takes the focus off of women rights. It is now a political rally complete no doubt with a stump speech. And to withhold the speakers names until after the time for a refund had past, is just cynical and slimy...another example of shoving an agenda that the people who planned this event know damn well we don't all support down our collective throats. It was cynical and disrespectful. I won't trust this organization again with my money or my time.
There is however, no need for an apology...you have a right to your views and to enter into any discussion you choose.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)I shouldn't have posted at all, but I didn't say those things.
betsuni
(25,519 posts)I'll repeat my response to that post. You said that the "feminist leadership" which means Democrats:
Don't care about the poor/working class
Are corporatists
Only care about fundraising/elites/out of touch/status quo
Compromise for no reason/have no convictions
Are warmongers
Have no message besides "Trump is bad"
Needz moar transformative/radical/passion
Not caring about the poor, being fascists who let corporations call the shots (corrupt), having no convictions, being warmongers are all right wing things.
Your fantasy of a Democratic Party that is the same as Republicans is wrong.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)And I didn't defend the invitation of Bernie to speak.
Demsrule86
(68,576 posts)right wing was not true. It could not be backed up either. The idea that we have to haul folks off the streets and that somehow Democratic leaders or party faithful are somehow inferior to street activist is pernicious and simply not true. We are the majority of the Democratic Party...not a minority wing that can perhaps spoil elections should they choose to do so in close elections. But at what cost? And I am tired of being told that we have to allow a minority of our party to make decisions that I think will hurt us electorally. And the message is all over the place at that... Manchin and other Democrats in red states are not good enough and must be primaried, but candidates like Mello are just fine and are endorsed? Nancy Pelosi is primaried and Mello and Perriello are endorsed...it boggles the mind. Why because we said so...not working for me. I didn't ask for an apology. I posted on that thread and I certainly bullied no one. That being said, there is no need to apologize for your views...they are what they are. You have a right to believe as you choose.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)n/t.
yardwork
(61,608 posts)But were the bullies?
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)And I started this thread to acknowledge that I shouldn't have entered those discussions, so why are you trying to drag those discussions into this?
emulatorloo
(44,124 posts)So don't try to bully Ken into not posting what he wants to post, or bully SheShe for having an opinion that is different from yours.
Ken is a great guy and if he feels he needs to clarify and/or apologize that speaks very well of his character.
You can advise him to be an jerk with this 'never apologize never explain' toxic masculinity nonsense all you want. However that goes against who he is.
SheShe is passionate and cares about all the things we all care about at DU, the core values and goals of progressivism.
sheshe2
(83,760 posts)Have you or would you ask one of her?
bigtree
(85,996 posts)Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)n/t.
FSogol
(45,485 posts)NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)lunasun
(21,646 posts)grantcart
(53,061 posts)I have to say he is getting very good at it. In all sincerity this was a first class apology, succinct, clear, and without qualification or ambiguity. I would definitely make this one an Ace.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)Always have.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)How many times must the child place his hand into the fire before it ceases being merely a "mistake?"
How many times is the word 'sincere' uttered before it becomes simply another tactic?
MineralMan
(146,308 posts)Perhaps it's time to think about stuff before writing.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)Not once. Not at any point.
MineralMan
(146,308 posts)Advice does not equal hostility.
lunasun
(21,646 posts)...in a series
/revision/latest?cb=20130307002629
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)Last edited Mon Oct 16, 2017, 06:06 PM - Edit history (1)
What is your issue with me, anyway?
I'm as pro-choice as you are and I campaigned for HRC in the fall.
So, really, what have you got to be this angry with me about?
progressoid
(49,990 posts)There's really no point in apologizing if no one is going to accept it. Just move on.
emulatorloo
(44,124 posts)Even if it falls on a few deaf ears, so what?
progressoid
(49,990 posts)have spoken for themselves as well by either mocking or dismissing his apology.
Sadly, you're acceptance of his apology is an anomaly.
emulatorloo
(44,124 posts)Some folks mocking him. Other people telling him not to say what he wants to say because of "Deaf Ears". That's two sides of the same coin
Too much yelling past each other.
Take care and
sheshe2
(83,760 posts)I checked....you never posted in the OP where the comments were in question. He made not one comment, dozens.
The one that hurt the most was the one that said to me here.
If there was anyone who supported anything close to that program today, I'd agree that that woman should be the first day speaker.
Does any such person exist, though?
https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029708026#post202
You see how that might hurt women? Not one of us is good enough to be the opening speaker.
The Committee made the choice that it would be a man. They announced after the cut off date for refunds. Women are incensed and rightfully so. This conference was supposed to be about women and they took that away from us.
betsuni
(25,519 posts)Because, as we're told repeatedly, the Democratic Party has shifted far to the right and last year's presidential candidate was the least progressive EVAR, the party doesn't talk about economic issues, doesn't care about the working class and the poor, have abandoned unions blah blah blah neoliberal establishment.
And I'm noticing an exciting new trend. When asked to name names, who are these terrible Democrats they're talking about, we're told that no no no it's not about individuals or personalities, it's about IDEAS and TRENDS.
We are so far right that we are considered Republicans? Seems to be the trend when a woman runs and never a man. We are also labeled the dreaded establishment what ever that is suppose to mean. PP. Emily's List. Women candidates are all establishment and once again...whatever that is suppose to mean.
progressoid
(49,990 posts)Nor am I defending anything Ken said in that thread. Just pointing out that his apology is falling on deaf ears.
Squinch
(50,949 posts)Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)I'm a human being, I make mistakes and admit them.
I had no deliberate intent in posting in those discussions, I just wandered in and shouldn't.
Squinch
(50,949 posts)Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)It's not self-indulgent for a person to apologize.
Squinch
(50,949 posts)What is your issue with me, anyway?
We essentially agree on most things.
Squinch
(50,949 posts)Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)That's the least "me" thing a person can do.
What is the point of calling someone out for an apology?
Why call bullshit on a person acknowledging a wrong?
Squinch
(50,949 posts)And grow up already.
Ain't it the truth.
kydo
(2,679 posts)And guts, lots of guts. orange dotard and his minions of deplorables would never say they were wrong. Glad we still have some human beings around.
Not sure why a sincere apology would get blowback.
Or why some people here seem to see me as either the enemy or some sort of double agent.
I've proved my loyalty over and over again.
Cary
(11,746 posts)How could you have missed it?