Do you think there is any chance Pence will go down with Trump?

[redstatebluegirl]

It is hard to believe he didn't know a lot of what was going on. Plus the undercover way he was chosen seems really odd to me. Manafort seemed to be in control of that decision.

What say ye old wise DU?

[Botany]

1. Do you think there is any chance Pence will go down on Trump?

[geardaddy]

4. That was my first thought.

[Merlot]

10. Metaphorically, yes, already happened.

I prefer not to take that thought any farther.

[Not Ruth]

2. Some say that Trump did not know him last summer

Some say the Trump did

I would say that would be the determining factor

[Iliyah]

3. I hope so but next in line would be Lying Ryan?

[treestar]

5. Yeah let's wait for 2018

so as to have President Pelosi.

[unblock]

12. zero chance of that happening via impeachment and removal.

even if we retake the house and pelosi becomes speaker, and even if there are enough republicans willing to remove both of them after impeachment, there is still zero chance republicans will do both *at the same time*, which would be necessary for pelosi to become president.

they'll remove one, appoint a new (republican) vice-president, then remove the other, at which point the new republican vice-president would become president.

there is no way they would hand the presidency over to a democrat.

zero.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

16. Yup.

If Democrats even try a two-fer impeachment after a Democratic speaker takes over, Republicans will scream coup. And let's not forget, they'll still need a 2/3rds majority in the Senate to remove. Bring Pence into the equation and you can kiss whatever Republicans willing to impeach Trump goodbye.

[Wounded Bear]

18. Yeah, that is basically how we got Ford...nt

[PJMcK]

6. Yes, I do

Pence will be caught up in the various Russian investigations. It would be incredulous if he didn't know about the contacts Flynn and others had with Kremlin-connected operatives.

In the unlikely event that Pence didn't know anything that was going on, then he is an incompetent manager who cannot control his staff.

[SonofDonald]

24. Oh he knew alright, Rep Cummings sent him a letter

Directly to him as the head of personell during the transition, the letter was acknowledged as recieved by the white house, he knew from the beginning.

And it's just not possible that when Flynn was being exposed he wasn't in on any of the conversations about what to do.

Lilly white on the outside, black, dirty stench of feces on the inside.

Our VP.

[unblock]

7. i wouldn't hold my breath.

i'm doubtful enough about this taking down donnie, never mind both of them.

anything's possible as we haven't yet seen all the hard evidence, but i really can't see a president ryan coming out of all this....

[Me.]

8. Yes

His ties to Manafort

[AJT]

9. I think he knew, but the fall of Pence means the rise of Ryan...

He too is a crazy rightwing religious zealot and an Ayn Rand objectavism follower. Not sure who would be worse to "lead" the country into hell.

[marylandblue]

11. I suspect Pence had some knowledge but no direct involvement

I think he knew not to get involved or ask too many questions, so he is probably safe.

[democratisphere]

13. The entire administration is in cahoots. Remember, the administration that prays together,

stays together.

[meow2u3]

25. "... the adminstration that PREYS together stays together

I fixed it for ya!

[Tommy_Carcetti]

14. I highly doubt it. Everyone wants to think it will happen...

...but it's just not realistic.

Congressional Republicans eventually have to reach their breaking point with Trump. Any agreement on policy is going to eventually be eclipsed by the fact he's an absolute unstable lunatic whose continued presence in the White House is endangering us all. (Or at the very least in their selfish little minds, ruining the Republican brand.)

So there's a good chance that if what Mueller reports on is substantially damning, you'll begin to see the Republicans in Congress cut bait on Trump.

However, they'll hold the line at Pence. The support in drumming up impeachment for Trump will end at Trump. Unless Pence is revealed to be some key mastermind in the Russian mess, they're not going to abandon him. Any tangential relationship to the scandal isn't going to cut it. And right now really all there is that he seems to have covered up for Flynn and his conflicts after the election. (The fact that Manafort was involved in selecting Pence is rather overblown....As corrupted as Manafort was, he still was the campaign manager and choosing a VP is going to be a key duty of any manager, corrupt or not.)

That should be enough to warrant impeachment, but political realities say it won't be. And an unprecedented and unlikely "two-fer" Trump-Pence impeachment won't really do much if Republicans hold the House (we get Paul Ryan as President). And if impeachment happens after 2018 and we flip the House, you'll be damned if you see Republicans go along to cede the Presidency to the Democrats--they'll frame it as a quasi-coup of sorts and it could derail the entire process.

So, no, we're not going to see a two-fer. If Trump goes, we'll see President Pence.

However, the silver lining is a President Pence will be in serious trouble for re-election in 2020, if he even runs. He'll forever be linked with the irredeemable national horror that was President Donald Trump and Democrats will play that very heavily. And they'll continue to remind the public of how Pence covered up for Flynn, among other things. That's some good ammunition.

There's a good chance that Pence becomes President but also immediately becomes a lame duck President the moment he's sworn in.

[Freddie]

20. Agreed. President Pence Gerald Ford

Except Ford was a nice guy.

[Johonny]

15. Spiro went down with Nixon.

Yeah, he's as dirty as Trump.

[Wounded Bear]

19. No, Agnew went first...

that's how we got Ford.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

23. Agnew went down before Nixon and for reasons unrelated to Watergate.

An investigation began in early 1973 by the U.S. attorney's office in Maryland on suspicion that he'd committed various acts of conspiracy, bribery, extortion and tax fraud while he was the Governor, and while he had been a county official before that. There was no evidence that he had any involvement in Watergate; his own dirty deeds took him down. So the comparison with Trump/Pence isn't apropos.

[Johonny]

28. Yip I know.

Not sure why it isn't appropriate. As I said. I think he's as dirty as Trump. He will go down. I have no doubt he's up to lots of dirty stuff. Do you think Russia is the only dirty dealings in this case. Is there anyone associate with Trump Co. not dirty...no. They all appear dirty. It's amazing if Trump Co all escape prosecution.

[fleur-de-lisa]

17. Yes, I believe Pence will be forced out too.

He supposedly knew that illegal Russian cash was being washed into the RNC during the campaign, as did Paul Ryan. They all knew and they did nothing about it. I think Mueller has proof of just how deep this goes.

[Faux pas]

21. From your keyboard to

the Universe's collective universal vibe machine.

[peggysue2]

22. Yes.

Pence will go down along with others. And I will not shed a single tear.

[barbtries]

26. i think there's a chance

i know he's duplicitous and in it up to his eyeballs.

[Eliot Rosewater]

27. Who's next, Ryan? McConnell? Whoever it is, unacceptable, election stolen.

[hunter]

29. If Trump falls he'll make sure Pence falls harder and faster, for purely egotistical reasons.

Trump is the sort who will take down everyone around him, even family, blaming them all for the failure of his administration.

I'm certain Trump has got the dirt on Pence, otherwise Pence wouldn't be Vice President.

[emulatorloo]

30. I believe Flynn has the dirt on Pence as well

[Bettie]

31. As much as I wish I could believe otherwise

I doubt either one of them will go down.

I have zero faith in the system anymore.

Yeah, I'll keep voting, but it seems like it is screaming into the void.

[LonePirate]

32. Regardless of what he did or did not know last year (or now), he is effectively the president now.

He is the one making all of the appointments, creating all of the EOs, steering the executive office down specific policy paths. 45 is merely a figurehead, albeit an outspoken one. However, due to his complete ignorance on all policy, process and duty matters, someone else needs to run the show behind the scenes. That someone is Pence and he needs to lose his job once Mueller finally comes knocking.

[0rganism]

33. yeah, IF Trump goes down there's a chance Pence goes with him

"a chance"