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malaise

(268,976 posts)
Thu Oct 19, 2017, 07:22 PM Oct 2017

This Niger mess

will lead to a very serious and frightening question - did the life of the African-American military man matter? How and why was he left out there alone - dead or dying?

This is a most troubling situation and we must ignore the diversion and get to the bottom of this.

35 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
This Niger mess (Original Post) malaise Oct 2017 OP
Hold on underpants Oct 2017 #1
I really don't know anything about it except Trump is an asshole but I don't think Jim Beard Oct 2017 #2
Not his army buddies - never malaise Oct 2017 #3
Which contractors? Baconator Oct 2017 #7
Berry Aviation bathroommonkey76 Oct 2017 #11
It's funny that Berry Aviation's website is no longer available. bathroommonkey76 Oct 2017 #12
Oops malaise Oct 2017 #13
The bigger questions for me are bathroommonkey76 Oct 2017 #17
Yep - the family or the other goons malaise Oct 2017 #21
Interesting Corgigal Oct 2017 #16
They said he wasn't DashOneBravo Oct 2017 #22
Then why did they tell the widow Polly Hennessey Oct 2017 #34
Found this on Wiki bathroommonkey76 Oct 2017 #14
Some buried info from 6 days ago canetoad Oct 2017 #25
He could have been captured live also (hurts to say this) and riversedge Oct 2017 #4
Well if he was dead and left out in that heat malaise Oct 2017 #15
Bodies in 'Nam liquefied rather quickly when not recovered for days. Kaleva Oct 2017 #30
Goddamn it... Baconator Oct 2017 #5
Why was he left when the other victims were taken. panader0 Oct 2017 #6
Probably because bodies are good to have and are retrieved whenever possible... Baconator Oct 2017 #8
I mean, why did "contractors" retrieve the bodies and not the US army? panader0 Oct 2017 #10
Contract air is most of the intra Niger air... Baconator Oct 2017 #27
My point is: The US army should not have to rely on contractors. n/t panader0 Oct 2017 #29
Why is that? Baconator Oct 2017 #35
Precisely malaise Oct 2017 #9
I just caught newblewtoo Oct 2017 #18
It will come out malaise Oct 2017 #19
We've been there for 4 years. B2G Oct 2017 #20
I want to thank you for newblewtoo Oct 2017 #23
Just because you didn't know... Baconator Oct 2017 #28
They've had Med Evac DashOneBravo Oct 2017 #24
I read an analysis. Blue_true Oct 2017 #26
The casket should be opened for a civilian autopsy. roamer65 Oct 2017 #31
Rachel Maddow peggysue2 Oct 2017 #32
We need to allow family to sue the military Not Ruth Oct 2017 #33

underpants

(182,791 posts)
1. Hold on
Thu Oct 19, 2017, 07:40 PM
Oct 2017

I'm sorry to say this but I've got conspiracy theories on my mind
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=9729941

First he was black AND attacking him his wife or Rep. Wilson serves a double purpose of diversion to retribution for Trump but.....

Expect some conspiracies that he was "in on it".

 

Jim Beard

(2,535 posts)
2. I really don't know anything about it except Trump is an asshole but I don't think
Thu Oct 19, 2017, 07:45 PM
Oct 2017

think his army buddies would have left him there. I have been watching all the Vietnam programs on PBS, Ken Burns about ten 1.5 hour episodes. There was very little Black and White i problems in battle.

 

bathroommonkey76

(3,827 posts)
11. Berry Aviation
Thu Oct 19, 2017, 08:04 PM
Oct 2017
http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/18/politics/niger-private-contractor-us-forces-evacuation/index.html

A US private aviation contractor conducted evacuations of US and Nigerien troops after they were ambushed on October 4 in Niger, according to US Africa Command spokesperson Robyn Mack. Mack said that US private contractor Berry Aviation was "on alert during the incident and conducted casualty evacuation and transport for US and partner forces."

What is unclear at this time is whether the private contractor airlifted the wounded and/or the deceased. CNN previously reported that US officials said French military Super Puma helicopters evacuated the wounded Americans along with those killed.
Contractor aircraft are typically not armed, though their crews may carry side-arms for personal protection.
This is raising questions about whether the French and contractor crews were in communication.

"In August 2017, US Transportation Command approved a sole source contract to hire Berry Aviation to provide one fixed wing aircraft and one rotary wing aircraft in Niamey for, among other duties, casualty evacuation. This sole source bridge contract runs through the end of this month, October 2017," Mack told CNN.
 

bathroommonkey76

(3,827 posts)
17. The bigger questions for me are
Thu Oct 19, 2017, 08:26 PM
Oct 2017

Who are Sonny Berry, President; Stanley Finch, VP Operations; Gary McCracken, VP Maintenance?

What is their relationship with the Trump family?

Corgigal

(9,291 posts)
16. Interesting
Thu Oct 19, 2017, 08:12 PM
Oct 2017

That pilot certainly fled and left our active duty person.

I so hope he wasn't captured. God forbid a video shows up, I'll cry for days. I bet that is what they are fearing too.

DashOneBravo

(2,679 posts)
22. They said he wasn't
Thu Oct 19, 2017, 09:06 PM
Oct 2017

They can tell if they had the body or was captured because they often mutilate the body if it's ISIS or AQ.

Polly Hennessey

(6,794 posts)
34. Then why did they tell the widow
Thu Oct 19, 2017, 10:21 PM
Oct 2017

she could not have an open casket as she requested. My fear is that he was still alive and captured. Makes me sick to think this might be the case. Hope I’m wrong.

 

bathroommonkey76

(3,827 posts)
14. Found this on Wiki
Thu Oct 19, 2017, 08:10 PM
Oct 2017

Berry Aviation is an American charter airline based in San Marcos, Texas, United States. It was established and started operations in 1983 and operates charter passenger and cargo flights as well as work for the US Postal Service. Its main base is San Marcos Municipal Airport.[1]

Founded 1983
Hubs San Marcos Municipal Airport
Fleet size 23
Headquarters San Marcos, Texas, United States
Key people Sonny Berry, President; Stanley Finch, VP Operations; Gary McCracken, VP Maintenance
Website http://www.berryaviation.com

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berry_Aviation

canetoad

(17,154 posts)
25. Some buried info from 6 days ago
Thu Oct 19, 2017, 09:18 PM
Oct 2017
US Military Reveals Contractors Flew to the Rescue in Niger, but Little Else

http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/15121/us-military-reveals-contractors-flew-to-the-rescue-in-niger-but-little-else

Additional details that have emerged regarding an ambush in southwest Niger that left four U.S. Army soldiers dead continue to prompt more questions than they answer about the incident. The top American headquarters for military operations on the continent, U.S. Africa Command, has now confirmed that private contractors helped casualties evacuate the area afterwards, but has again declined to elaborate on the U.S.-Nigerien patrol's overall objectives or who is responsible for the attack.

The facts as they are known at present are that, on Oct. 4, 2017, two U.S. Army Special Forces soldiers and two other members of the service attached to elements of the 3rd Special Forces Group (Airborne) in Niger died after their convoy came under attack from militants near the village of Tongo Tongo, near the border with Mali. A multi-national force of American, Nigerien, and French forces responded to the incident to help drive off the hostile force and rescue the remaining friendly personnel. One of the American soldiers killed in the incident was missing for two days before U.S. forces recovered his body and it remains unclear when and how he died.

According to Berry’s website, however, the company’s fleet only includes a variety of fixed wing aircraft, such as the de Havilland Canada Dash-8 and Twin Otter, both twin engine turbo-prop planes. It is unclear whether the firm also has helicopters or subcontracts to provide that service. Contracting documents for previous iterations of this arrangement do not specify the need for any particular aircraft by name or prohibit the use of third parties to meet its requirements.

That the aircraft were on call and participated in the response efforts is an important detail. The ability of the U.S. military and contractors working on its behalf, or lack thereof, to rush to the rescue during the attack has been a point of significant scrutiny.

On edit: I've just posted this as an OP. Think it deserves exposure.

riversedge

(70,205 posts)
4. He could have been captured live also (hurts to say this) and
Thu Oct 19, 2017, 07:55 PM
Oct 2017

tortured by IS. Remember, the military said there should not be an open coffin. The widow is left to wonder now.

Baconator

(1,459 posts)
5. Goddamn it...
Thu Oct 19, 2017, 07:57 PM
Oct 2017

Don't make me play the angry internet veteran card...

This is bullshit of the highest order.

panader0

(25,816 posts)
6. Why was he left when the other victims were taken.
Thu Oct 19, 2017, 07:58 PM
Oct 2017

Apparently, he wasn't dead, just wounded. Why didn't US Army retrieve the bodies?
This should not go away---- not after that lengthy Benghazi probe against HRC.

Baconator

(1,459 posts)
8. Probably because bodies are good to have and are retrieved whenever possible...
Thu Oct 19, 2017, 07:59 PM
Oct 2017

... but not at the cost of making a new one.

Baconator

(1,459 posts)
27. Contract air is most of the intra Niger air...
Thu Oct 19, 2017, 09:25 PM
Oct 2017

Last edited Fri Oct 20, 2017, 12:14 AM - Edit history (1)

Big birds come and go but to get from Niamey to Agadez, for example, you take a contract flight.

newblewtoo

(667 posts)
18. I just caught
Thu Oct 19, 2017, 08:26 PM
Oct 2017

a snip on the news during dinner (we almost never do this). We both blurted out: "What the fuck are we doing in Niger?"

Anyone know? Sounded like CIA shit all over again. I bet the 'private contractor' is just a front.

newblewtoo

(667 posts)
23. I want to thank you for
Thu Oct 19, 2017, 09:09 PM
Oct 2017

posting this. I have no idea how I have been so ignorant of this situation. I recommend people go to the link and take a good long look at what is going on. Drones? Bases?? Fucking secret wars.

Where was the oversight on this shit.

Baconator

(1,459 posts)
28. Just because you didn't know...
Thu Oct 19, 2017, 09:26 PM
Oct 2017

Last edited Fri Oct 20, 2017, 12:16 AM - Edit history (1)

... Doesn't mean there's anything shady about it.

Some serious tin foil nuttery is brewing for this topic.

DashOneBravo

(2,679 posts)
24. They've had Med Evac
Thu Oct 19, 2017, 09:11 PM
Oct 2017

Contactors in Africa for years. That way they can say we only have "100" trainers down there and not mention the butt load of contractors.

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
26. I read an analysis.
Thu Oct 19, 2017, 09:22 PM
Oct 2017

It took 30 minutes for the first help to arrive. The analysis said the firefight spread out over a large area in terrain. It could be possible that he got hit fatally or near fatally in a position that the others could not defend. The analysis said that it was 8-12 against around 50.

peggysue2

(10,828 posts)
32. Rachel Maddow
Thu Oct 19, 2017, 09:48 PM
Oct 2017

Spent her first segment talking about the screw-up in Niger, how Chad (which shares a long border with Niger) was placed on the banned entrance list despite the fact they have been a US ally and one of the most effective fighting forces against the Boka Haram lunatics in Niger. Homeland Security required all countries to submit new passports with certain security features included in the design. Chad missed the deadline because (wait for it) . . . they ran out of passport paper. They submitted a facsimile to Homeland Security. Not good enough. The country was therefore placed on the ban list because of the passport snafu and the fact that they've had a history of terrorist groups they've been fighting. Effectively.

Due to the Administration's passport rejection which lead to the country being banned, Chad packed up its men and arms, left Niger and went back to Chad. Within a very short window of time, our men were surrounded and killed.

Boom!

No wonder Trump wasn't eager to bring up the Niger incident, caused by gross incompetence and bureaucratic nonsense.

This is what happens when you have people making critical decisions without knowledge or background or s sense of regional history. The story was (according to Maddow) reported by the Associated Press. I wouldn't be surprised if there were other details yet to be revealed.

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