Add Stephanie Ruhle to the MSNBC women who do not understand a professional attire

[question everything]

Last week, as was reported here was Alex Wagner, I also noted Nicole Wallace and this morning Rhule with an evening dress style with a dropped shoulder. In the morning?

Add this point to Rachel Maddow's being the top ranked host there. Always professional looking with, I think, by now her signature black suit.

[JustAnotherGen]

1. Rachel wears

Blue jeans - you just can't see them!

[question everything]

4. They can all wear bikini bottom

because, as you say, I don't see them.

[LeftyMom]

62. And Chuck Taylors.

She's been pretty clear that she's not entirely comfortable with the TV Anchor uniform, which is why she wears the same blazer with a rotating cast of camisoles. Using her as an example of Doing It Right is real odd, because she's doing the bare minimum and it's obviously the product of a negotiated effort to get her to femme it up for TV versus her desire to look like herself.

[cwydro]

91. Exactly.

Spot on.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

2. I wouldn't expect slut shamming at a progressive site.

Oh dear lord, a dropped shoulder.

[Exultant Democracy]

8. I find it far more offensive than any outfit

If you don’t like the outfit don’t look at it. These women have ten type of pressure when it comes to their looks. They don’t need some jack doodlers on the internet spouting off.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

11. No kidding

It's just ridiculous.

[Demsrule86]

158. I agree.

[elleng]

201. Yes and

I suspect their attire is provided by their employer(s.)

[lagomorph777]

13. Yeah, WTF is up with that?

Let's see, picking apart a news presenter's appearance. Could it be related to:

(a) The presenter's gender?
(b) The (more or less) progressive-leaning network that presenter appears on?

Very peculiar for a DU post...

[AJT]

29. I find myself looking at what the women on faux news wear

and think that they dress for men, too sexualized for presenting the news in a studio, and find it sad. I've heard a lot of people refer to the faux news women as bimbos. I assume that you have never thought that way about the style of dress, hair and makeup of the faux news women?

[lagomorph777]

43. I can't stand to look at that channel, so I never think about their women.

I assume everybody on it has sold their soul, independent of physical appearance.

[DURHAM D]

3. Rachel does not wear a black suit.

She wears jeans.

jftr - Who made you the the attire Judge? This is so mid-last century.

[cwydro]

71. Thank you.

These type OPs blow my mind to see on DU.

[FSogol]

5. Unrec.

[phleshdef]

6. Fuck "professional attire". The world is on fire and this is what you care about?

[padah513]

24. 100% in agreement

We need to focus on the real problem

[DavidDvorkin]

32. Exactly.

[obnoxiousdrunk]

7. Start a petition .

[rurallib]

9. Does this have anything to do with the quality of their work?

I don't watch Ruhle much, but thinks she does an excellent job and asks tough questions.
Would different attire change that?

[question everything]

90. I suppose we have a different threshold for "excellent job"

When I am home, I watch the Velshi and Ruhle program (11:am Eaters). I watched it for Ali Velshi who is one of the best journalist on cable and network news (don't watch any "streaming" programs).

His strength is economy and he is great standing by a board with his diagrams and explanation. On this show, I consider Ruhle and an appendage to him. So he starts explaining and she cuts in interrupting him and he, the gentleman that he is, just let her with her play act.

I wish she'd team with Chris Matthews who really loves to cut people in mid sentence. Let the two of them cut each other and let Ali Velshi have his presentation.

[moriah]

121. You dodged the question.

Would dressing differently change your opinion of the quality of her research and the appropriateness and relevance of her interjections?

[LanternWaste]

10. It's critical of course, to criticize the clothes other people wear

It's critical of course, to criticize the clothes other people wear when our fancies direct us to the shallowest waters available; and to pretend knowledge of fashion, professionalism and rational thought.

[Wounded Bear]

12. Stephanie Ruhle looks great, no matter what she wears...

Not to mention intelligent and basically has a human side that reflects in her commentary.

[seaglass]

14. I don't have a problem with women choosing what they want to wear if it is a free choice,

however many women are pressured into dressing "sexy" in order to be competitive and I think that is disgraceful.

Female News Personalities in Boston Say There’s A Push To Dress Sexier

http://www.adweek.com/tvspy/female-news-personalities-in-boston-say-theres-a-push-to-dress-sexier/193090

The Globe spoke off the record to other female reporters and anchors in the market who expressed the same sentiments about the culture surrounding wardrobe choices.

“What you don’t see on TV is that many times women have clothespins in the back to make [their clothes] tighter.”

Asked who is behind the pinning, she described it as a “self-reinforcing situation,” in which less prominent anchors, hoping to move up, emulate provocatively dressed anchors. “It’s a way of getting attention,” she said.

Almost no one in the business wants to go on the record to discuss what form the encouragement takes. They’re afraid of losing their jobs or ruining professional relationships.

But off the record, current and former female broadcasters in Boston tell stories about wardrobe consultants hired by station management pushing clothing that some on-air talent don’t want to wear; women crying in the makeup room because they feel pressured to dress a certain way; a modestly dressed anchor being asked to dress like a sexier new colleague who wore her skirts short and her tops unbuttoned.

[marybourg]

19. Ahhh, at last, a little insight

into the problem. Women in this country - both in and out of the public eye - are pressured subtly and not-so-subtly to dress to look "hot", nearly as heavily as women in some Muslim countries are pressured to cover up.

That's the problem. And it's afflicting girls at younger and younger ages. What appears to be "free choice" and therefore championed by progressives, turns out to not really be so, on closer and more discerning examination.

[question everything]

45. Thank you. These days when so many were talking about Weinstein

when it is clear that women in the work place are still are subjected to sexual harassment and objectifying, it is obviously also in the so-called Newsrooms.

Men wear suits and ties, it is expected, so why do their "co-anchor" have to show - by volition or by implied coercion - as much skin as possible?

Or, did people who post here on Weinstein were told that this is not the place nor the time to raise this issue?

[obamanut2012]

52. You aren't ahsming the employers, you are shaming the women

Your judgements are shameful.

[Demit]

66. I disagree with you. When women are being pressured to look sexy, that's wrong.

And it *is* a condition of employment for on-air talent, when that talent is female. Show some skin, show the boobs. At the very least, wear sleeveless tops, even in the dead of winter.

Men don't seem to be pressured to wear sexy clothing. Why not a weather guy with really tight pants, so we can all see which side he favors?

[moriah]

136. You think it's not shameful to blame the victims?

If you think they're being pressured or it's a condition of employment, then you, and the OP, should be shaming the networks.

Not the females on air.

And that's what this OP does -- shame Ruhle for what she wears, say SHE doesn't understand professional clothing. If that's the way you think you should address sexism in the industry, by shaming the victims of policies and pressures, go hang out with Miryam Bialik. But I go with Molly Ringwald's explanation -- she wasn't exploited by Weinstein because she was in the power position.

So if you're going to shame, shame the power structure. A woman can be both very physically attractive and very good at her job, and while it does suck that physical appearance is seemingly a job requirement to appear on TV in news, that's no reason to attack those women blessed with both traditional beauty and brains.

Instead attack the industry that makes it difficult to get a job as a woman unless you're a perfect 10 and pressures those 10s to show it off.

[Demit]

137. I am not shaming the women. That is a deliberate misreading of what I said.

I am not the OP. I added a comment to this thread that focused on how women are pressured to show their bodies, to show bare skin, and men aren't. Implicit in my observation was that it is the networks' doing. Back off.

[moriah]

138. And Obamanut was replying to the original OP.

Surely you understand my confusion why you would disagree with his assessment that the OP judging Ruhle and Wallace rather than the networks is shameful.

[BannonsLiver]

196. You have no idea if that is the case here. None.

This thread is the height of stupidity.

[Dulcinea]

164. Well, it's clear who has the power!

Women are pressured to dress sexy, & men wear suits!

[ornotna]

15. Meh

Was she wearing sensible shoes? That’s what really matters.

[kydo]

16. Rachel has that in her contract. Maybe it's the same for Stephanie.

For real on the mostly black jacket. Basically it's from the waist up. And make up. She has to wear make up when on msnbc.

I bet a lot of what Stephanie wears is in her contract.

[procon]

64. The makeup is used to add visual cues for the viewers.

Without at least some modest color enhancement to the eyes and mouth, the face is just a monotone blur with eyeholes. The TV viewer can't clearly see facial expressions from across the room because the camera is not doing close ups.

I noticed when Maddow began wearing makeup because suddenly I could see her features and watch her expressions change from humor, to disgust, sorrow, disbelief, anger, it was all there and I could read her emotional engagement to the story she was telling.

[bettyellen]

101. Yeah but men aren't wearing false eyelashes, are they? And suddenly they are standard-

I get it's a style thing because they're so much more common for day makeup these days but it's odd.

[procon]

111. Men's features are larger than women's, and that makes it easier to see

their facial expressions. Men also have stronger, more pronounced features than women, and they have more noticeable lines and wrinkles. Their masculinity is baked in, just as most women have smaller, softer features. Men with blond or grey hair might add a bit of mascara, but the purpose of makeup is not to make men look effeminate by adding false eyelashes, unless maybe they are Kabuki actors or a fabulous drag show star, but to enhance their characteristic features for the audience.

If you want to see something odd, Google "stage makeup" to see how features are exaggerated in the theater. The rule of thumb is to play it for the audience in the last row.

[zipplewrath]

176. Anderson Cooper

Cooper said his career started to take off when his hair turned gray.

[a la izquierda]

17. Who the fuck cares what she wears?

I mean, for real!
I am a university professor and wear jeans to teach. Better clutch those pearls since I obviously don't understand professional attire.

[Bradshaw3]

27. June Cleaver is turning over in her grave

[shraby]

18. You sure you're on the right site? Who gives a sh** what they have on? It's

what comes out of their mouth that counts.
WORDS RULE.

[True Dough]

76. Or in this instance

WORDS RUHLE!

[handmade34]

20. I love Stephanie Ruhle

for her mind and ability to make sense of the news, not for what she wears...

[LexVegas]

21. JFC.

[Blue_Adept]

23. A lack of pictures really makes this hard to make a judgment on

and I want to join in on your judging of what's professional.

[question everything]

187. Similar to what Melania wore on inauguration party

The shoulders part

[Dchildr240]

204. They are actors

I think everyone on this thread is missing a very important point. A news cast is a show that has a set and the participants are actors. There is a director who decides what kind of props, wardrobe and make up the actors wear. Any allowance for newscasters to make personal decisions about their appearance on air must be approved by the director of the show. The stage terminology is wardrobe.

[librechik]

25. They have people for that

Seriously, onscreen talent comes to work in jeans, gets hair and makeup done, and then is offered a couple of choices from her at-work wardrobe (She never wears these costumes anywhere else) Then somebody adds some extra pins to tailor the on-camera look of the dress. Stepanie is so skinny! Tuck Tuck, pin. Did you see the purple number she wore yesterday, sleeveless with a ruffle all the way down the side? Oy!

Somebody else attaches the sound system to the dress, and hopes the camera likes the result.

Rachel has the right idea, and she must have just told them: No. Doctor Maddow will be providing her own wardrobe. And they knew how useless it would be to insist otherwise. Can you imagine Rachel in one of those supergirdle Spank-y outfits with the "optical panels"they put the girls into so they look skinny.

Apparently it wasn't a deal killer for Rachel, but the rest of the female talent on MSNBC has to do the mannequin dance. Ick, So out of date.

Stephanie is a trouper, but she looks a bit gawky in "evening wear"

But I really don't care as long as she can tear up a debate table with Republican snakes on the other side.

[winstars]

26. It wasn't Alex Wagner last week, she has unfortunately been off MSNBC for a long time IMHO...

And who cares anyway.

[SoCalDem]

44. Alex Witt dresses like she raided her teen-aged daughter's closet

Once a woman hits 40, there is a way to be stylish and age-appropriate.. It's got to be hard to give up the "girly" look for some, but most figure it out and actually look younger once they get rid of the super long hair and teenybopper styles

[question everything]

46. Thanks. The post only mentioned Alex and it did not generate fire

as this one.

And, I wonder whether posts about Weinstein did the same.

[Codeine]

48. "Teenybopper styles"? "Age appropriate"?

When the fuck did we time warp our discussion board back fifty years?

[crazycatlady]

49. So are you implying that after a certain age

I've got 3 years until 40.

I guess I should start reconsidering my wardrobe. After all i should start trading in my cute dresses for things like elastic waist polyester capris, my heels should go and I'll start shopping for orthopedic shoes, I'll trade my VS underwear in for beige nylon granny panties. I guess my next car should be a Buick. I've gotta come to terms with cutting off my long hair and rocking the granny perm look.

Seriously dude(ette?). Michelle Obama is over 50. Do you like her sense of style or should she go for the (elder) Barbara Bush look?

[Horse with no Name]

75. I'm almost 60...I look under 40

and I wear what the heck I like!

[SoCalDem]

81. so do I, but I am not on TV

and my mirror tells me that my old legs ain't what they used to be

[Demsrule86]

159. A big who cares...so sick of this shit where women are concerned...not enough to do a good job but

you have to look a certain way...you do understand that is sexist view right?

[SoCalDem]

179. ngp

[OnDoutside]

28. This is a pretty poor reason for a thread. Ruhle is doing a great

job.

[Seedersandleechers]

30. I thought she looked great.

Who cares what she wears. Get a life.

[Wellstone ruled]

31. Whoa!

Many on air talent have Wardrobe Sponsors. This is a Mega dollar Business. BTW,Stephie Ruhle represents the so called sweet spot in Apparel Business.

[blogslut]

33. I have only one concern with on-camera clothing.

Patterns - never wear patterned tops or jackets and pay attention to ties as some patterns can have a moire effect.

As for "proper attire" ugh. Really?

[nolabear]

34. WTF are you talking about? Jesus Christ...

I assume pearls are always in and perfect for clasping.

[Justice]

35. I care what they say not what they wear. What did Lawrence, Chris or Chris or Ari wear last night??

[question everything]

87. Suits, or, at least, jackets and ties (nt)

[Skittles]

115. professional attire

[snooper2]

36. Here, I think the woman on the right is showing too much neck, is the woman on the left okay?

I mean, I do see a "little" bit of skin on the woman in the burka.

Why do I have to be subjected to bright white bald spot in the middle. That dude needs a hat

[Pathwalker]

37. The Puritans are attacking! Quick, run and hide! Shoulders are showing!

Oh, the horror! She showed her shoulder - where's my eye bleach!?!

Seriously, since when is showing shoulders such an outrage when Brooke Baldwin regularly shows LOTS of cleavage and wears mini skirts, showing lots of leg, and yet no one here gives a damn about that? How the hell is that "professional" but showing a shoulder isn't? AND, why is Stephanie Ruhle DU's latest favorite whipping post?

[CTyankee]

38. As an oldie from the 1950s, I am always a bit surprised at a dropped shoulder,

but that was how women were brought up in those days...

[LuckyCharms]

39. I don't care what anyone on TV wears

It is not important.

I care about what they say. And I care about their reporting abilities.

They could appear in a burlap sack and it wouldn't bother me.

[Agschmid]

40. Rachel has lightwash blue jeans on, NOT a black suit.

Fuck this post.

[comradebillyboy]

41. The Fashion Police strike again...

[ksoze]

42. Am I sensing a call for a "Walk of Atonement"?

?itok=jJexhuz4

[BannonsLiver]

197. The only thing that's shameful here is the OP

[Codeine]

47. Jesus Christ. What an absolutely fucked-up post.

Pathetic.

[obamanut2012]

50. i am really tired of these shameful OPs

About women and what they wear. I have no idea why they are not against TOS.

Sickening, especially with the Weinstein and 45 scandals.

[Ms. Toad]

55. They are,

but - unfortunately - juries rarely hide them.

[Thrill]

51. See nothing wrong with what she wore

Why do people always want to tell women what’s ok to wear?

[33taw]

53. Is this real? Or, sarcasm?

[opiate69]

54. I know! I mean, what next? White after Labor Day?????

[Ms. Toad]

56. Please delete the misogynistic crap. n/t

[questionseverything]

57. just want to point out this op is not me

I post important articles that go no whr

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029733199

[question everything]

88. Lessee, I joined in 2004, you in 2012 perhaps I should comment that you are not me (nt)

[questionseverything]

96. fashion and shaming woman for inappropriate clothing

is definitely not my cup of tea but you have over 3500 views and 95 comments

while my op about how no one actually checked the machines or the ballots from the presidential election (with proof dhs admitted it) goes no whr so you are definitely more plugged in to what generates interest around here

[question everything]

117. The reality is that most posts on GD just sink quickly

this is why I have been pestering Skinner - with no results - to return the two GD forums: one for general and one for politics.

Depending on the time of day, or on other activities, within 10 days most GD are in the archive.

So, just on occasions just self kick. I have done it myself. I would sometimes add Kick for the evening crowd, or something like that.

Most visitors look at the recent threads, or the greatest threads - this is not one of them, as you can see, or go to their subscriptions.

I just kicked yours.

[northoftheborder]

58. I enjoy men's tie/shirt spiffy combinations, and flattering women's outfits

I'm sure some of these low necklines, skin-tight short dresses, and that goop they are putting on everyone's hair these days (even men) that looks like streaks of plastic are coming from the make-up and clothes department of the networks. I doubt many wear their own choice of clothes. Some are just better choices than others; the clothes should not detract from the reporting, whoever, man or woman. I don't like the tight suit jackets with one button that makes men look like they are wearing a size too small; nor do I like Dump's sloppy too-large suits (which of course is his choice.)

[procon]

59. I'm tired of people arguing that women journalists don't need to look professional

and should just show display a little more skin to make themselves look more entertaining and desirable. Women have it hard enough to stay competitive with men, and it's like saying that they aren't good enough on a professional level so lets just doll them up and go for the sexy glam shot like Fox does.

Let's see, what should a professional person wear to a job interview as a top tier news anchor making $200+K a year?
1). conservative business attire
2). flouncy, off the shoulder cocktail dress
3). board shorts and t-shirt
4). unisex onesies

[Demit]

67. Exactly. The hyperbole in this thread is crazy.

People are willfully misunderstanding that there are different ways to dress for different situations. A work environment is different from a cocktail party or a nightclub. It just is.

[procon]

70. Yeah, there are a lot of grandstanding fakers chiming in here.

I worked as an RN for most of my life, I spent years getting an education to earn a professional degree and maintain my licenses and certifications. I dressed for my job as a professional, usually that was scrubs because you can't climb aboard a moving gurney to do CPR in a perky little nurse costume, and it's easier to change when they get covered with bodily fluids. Inevitably, some sweet young thing always arrived for her first day on the job dressed like she was auditioning for a porno shoot, T&A to the max. The lack of professionalism just dragged us all down to that level because the attire was inappropriate for the work at hand and glaringly out of place.

There's a reason men in the journalism profession don't appear on air in Hawaiian shirts or tank tops, yet we have some of their women counterparts who still think it's the 1950s and the only way to advance their career is to look sexy... it's in the Fox News employee handbook.

[question everything]

89. Thank you. And when people - men and women - dress professionally

they feel more confident and it shows. They earn more respect.

I cannot imagine women in a professional settings constantly tugging at their hems and straps to make sure that they do not show more than intended.

And in your profession, open toe shoes would actually be hazardous.

Not sure whether it is related, many years ago the actor Glenn Close discussed her appearance in a period movie, may have been Hamlet. She had to squeeze herself into tight corset and she said how wearing something like that changed her whole posture. Thus, I think that this is true for any type of "uniform" whether it is a medical professional scrubs and lab coats, hard head and reinforced toe shoes, military uniforms and others.

[melman]

129. 'there different ways to dress for different situations'

And a TV show is not an office.

[LeftyMom]

60. I had no idea my dead Baptist grandmother had cable and access to the internet.

[WinkyDink]

61. Might be a combination of: Male bosses a la FOX; confusing "trendy" with "business attire;" & a

generational indifference to older standards.

Sometimes we women, in seeking professional gravitas, are our own worst enemies.

[trueblue2007]

63. RACHEL MADDOW IS ASTOUNDING !!!!

[yortsed snacilbuper]

65. When the ratings drop,

remove the tops.

[Baconator]

68. Is that a shoulder I see?

[elfin]

69. Dont mess with Steph - she is one of my faves

No matter what her attire, she is whip smart and persistent.

Cool your jets.

[Polly Hennessey]

72. If you want to be seen and treated as a serious professional

then dropped shoulders and/or dropped cleaveage is not apppropiate. Would you rather your audience listen to what you say or have them distracted by too much flesh. Stephanie Rhule is a smart lady just wish she would not dress like a mom chaperoning a Junior High prom.

[Demsrule86]

160. Nonsense...fashion has changed. It is not your call...sick of this.

[stevenleser]

73. This is really not OK. I feel a lot of sympathy for women who go on the air

They are constantly judged about their appearance in ways to which men are not subjected.

I feel like I have it easy. Sure, its not cheap to buy the kind of suits you need to look good on TV, but it is simple. Its both expensive and complicated for women and they still get judged.

[procon]

82. Do male journalists go on air wearing tank tops or tshirts?

They're not subjected to criticisms about their clothing because they know that the audience wouldn't take them seriously if they showed up looking like they were at a party rather than working as a professional journalist.

Why do women give away the status and prestige they've worked so hard to achieve for the sake of meaningless sex appeal that undermines their credibility? Imagine if Maddow wore a revealing cocktail dress instead of her normal blah attire...

[stevenleser]

84. You need to have that red herring you just raised pickled

The standards for what is considered professional is different for men and women so that pretty much destroys the underlying premise of your argument

[procon]

86. Your assertion is not supported by the facts.

Professional appearance standards are pretty much baked in to most white collar jobs, including journalism, for a reason. Look at the anchors hosting the top news programs on network or cable, with the sole exception of Fox News, the men and women in those jobs have a nondescript, but classically conservative look. They intentionally have selected that refined, dignified appearance so as not to attract attention to themselves, and rightly so, as their primary focus is on delivering the news, not being a clothes horse.

[muriel_volestrangler]

168. Here are how highly regarded men and women dress at the same serious televised event

So, yes, "bare shoulders" can be the equivalent of a suit and tie. And I don't think the First Lady was under any pressure to "look sexy". Get over it.

[procon]

169. As a private citizen, she can dress anyway she likes, yeah? Adding an eye roll here.🙄 nt

[muriel_volestrangler]

170. Yes, Ruhle is a private citizen. Has it taken you that long to figure that out?

Had you spent the whole thread thinking Ruhle was in the military, police or something with a uniform? Jeez. It's been days.

[procon]

171. I see what you did there. Here's the thing that you're trying to sidestep... lo these many days.

Ruhle might be a private citizen, but she's a woman who has a highly visible professional job in a respected career that is dominated by men and constantly being dragged down by the giggling nitwits in cocktail dresses that predominate Fox News.

Women have struggled for years to make it in that business and be recognized as consummate, journalistic professionals on the same par as their male counterparts. And it is notable than men don't show up on air in muscle shirts or tank tops for the same reason that the vast majority of women news anchors don't go on camera in party dresses. Most of us don't have that option in our own professional jobs because there would be consequences, so why would anyone accept lowering the bar simply for something like gender specific fashions?

[muriel_volestrangler]

172. It's notable that you have this ridiculous idea that a dress with bare shoulders is the equivalent

of "muscle shirts or tank tops". They're not. Just look up - I gave you an equivalent and it's a suit and tie. When you see "women in cocktail dresses" (whether or not that's actually what Ruhle was wearing), the men will be in suit and tie - or even tuxedo, because it's really formal.

Seriously, your remark about a "private citizen" was actually meant as a continuation of the prim BS you've been writing for days? What on earth were you trying to say with it, then?

[procon]

173. What, you ask? Why, because those who want to see career women

reduced to pretty clothes horses, instead of leading in the profession they've worked so hard to attain, is the bete noire of my professional existence. Look, the Mad Men era is long gone, but that mindset persists and it drags us all down when a few women choose to cultivate a glamorous look for TV -- a la Fox News -- rather than being respected for their intellect, experience and skills.

[muriel_volestrangler]

174. The OP is the problem. It does NOT respect Ruhle for "intellect, experience and skills"

The thread starter, and his supporters like you, are getting wound up over a bare shoulder. You assume that Ruhle has been forced into trying to look sexy, and attack her for what she wears.

Puritanism was a bad idea centuries ago. There's no need to try and revive it now.

[procon]

177. How does Ruhle's choice an off the shoulder dress make her look more respected

and professional than the majority of her journalistic colleagues at MSNBC, of either gender, who are on air in their standard business attire. You have a somewhat different take on professional women, maybe spaghetti straps or a strapless dress is a successful look from a parochial aspect. However, if no bar is too low then we end up with the vapid, bedazzled babes over at Fox News, and that's not the standard I want to see propagated in the Fourth Estate.

[muriel_volestrangler]

178. Fuck it, slut shaming has no place in the modern world

We've even had a DUer calling it "dressing provocatively". This is like the worst rape trial possible - attack the woman, say everyone must be "conservative", and say they don't respect a woman because she's wearing expensive clothes that everyone sees all the time - because they have bare shoulders. people called "grandstanding fakers".

You are judging women on the basis of their clothes and calling them 'vapid' and 'bedazzled'. It's your attitude that is straight from the 50s.

[procon]

180. Oh, please, that raggedy old fake high horse ran off a long time ago.

No wonder woman have such a difficult time advancing their careers when people still try to cram all of us into a one size fits all box. No one even mentioned any of those loaded cliches about rape or expensive clothes, so why did you make it up? That's grandstanding, yeah? There is a striking difference between the sexual glorification of women on Fox News -- and yes, they are 'vapid' and 'bedazzled', the lot of 'em! -- and the professional appearance of women on other news shows. There is an accepted standard of appearance in every aspect of our lives, from school, to work, and everything in between, so there is no cogent argument in pretending it doesn't exist.

[muriel_volestrangler]

181. Yes, someone did call the way they dress "provocative". You keep talking about cocktail dresses

and dressing for a party - expensive clothes. So, no, I'm not making this up. This is not fake - it's how you and your fellow Puritans are talking, in this thread.

"There is an accepted standard of appearance in every aspect of our lives, from school, to work, and everything in between" is such a conservative thing to say, it's shameful to see it on DU. And amazingly, it's you accusing others of trying "to cram all of us into a one size fits all box". You want to control how all reporters on TV dress. Your standard involves no bare shoulders, for who knows what reason, because bare shoulders are "sexual glorification".

[Pathwalker]

92. Why Yes! Yes thyey do. I take it you missed all the jokes by

Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert about Anderson Cooper's black tshirt/ It went on and on for weeks. And Andrew Cuomo wears them on assignment, too. Kinda blows a hole in your theory.

[procon]

93. What a dodgy, ill thought response.

Whether a journalist is broadcasting from a newsroom set, or doing fieldwork on assignment, covering a storm or slogging through a disaster zone, they still dress appropriate to the job at hand. Tell me when you last saw a journalist standing knee deep in flood waters and reporting whilst wearing a slinky cocktail dress instead of raingear and rubber boots? If a journalist is assigned to a black tie gala, they're going to be covering the event dressed like everyone else is, in a tux or an evening gown, not a sport coat or yoga pants. This isn't rocket science, yeah?

[Pathwalker]

99. So, any problems with Brooke Baldwoan, who regularly wears

low, low cut blouses that show the top and inner third of her breasts, and features a side shot of her very short mini-skirt and long legs - on a regular basis? Also, why are only MSNBC women treated so harshly, when Brooke regularly makes their exposed shoulders look demure by comparison. They are called slutty, yet no one seems to care that Brooke is often an inch away from a "wardrobe malfunction". Why the hell is she considered appropriate when wearing the latest fashion trend is considered so unprofessional? I see a definite double standard. Showing breasts = good, showing shoulders = bad.

Your post didn't mention live shots versus studio, so I simply answered your simple question.

[procon]

100. This thread was focused only on one MSNBC anchor, like the title says.

For the most part, the discussion has stayed on topic. If it's important to you, start a separate thread to discuss Brooke Baldwin or the CNN anchors fashion sense.

[question everything]

107. I don't watch Baldwin and after your comment I know why

Yes, it was bout MSNBC thought the local stations here are just as bad. And the morning network programs - I watch the CBS one with Gayle King wearing tight clothes, they all have open desks and the camera loves to zoom on thighs.

[Horse with no Name]

74. I'm not going to slut shame

it wouldn't be my choice in that profession, but hey? Live and let live.
We've got bigger fish to fry.

[True Dough]

79. I loathe that term

"Slut shame"

It's just awful. Wish it would disappear.

[democratisphere]

77. The women of MSNBC can wear whatever they want.

They are smart attractive women that do a great job of reporting the news while maintaining a more feminine appearance. Thank you ladies, keep up the great work!

[Kahuna7]

78. Was it a cold shoulder? That's the "thing" this year...

It's kind of hard to avoid.

[rufus dog]

80. Has anyone considered they simply ran out of clothes

I saw the Wagner outfit last week, no big deal. But before condemning them have you considered they may not go home every day. Ruhle seems to be on day and night during the week, have you considered she may pack up some dresses and be prepared to do x# of shows and be ready for some last minute invites to other events? I used to work on the road a bit, had a set of clothes for the week and a set of clothes at the dry cleaners, would drop off the clothes at the end of the week and then travel light. Ruhle likely doesn't dress at home for her morning show, gets in, pulls an outfit and so on. In my case, if an event came up where I needed something for a nightly event I was caught short.

To be blunt, no biggie!

[WinkyDink]

97. No.

[question everything]

109. This is why "imitating" the men is useful

Many wear the same suit, or jackets with change of shirts and ties, if needed.

Women, too, can have a suit - pant or skirt - or even, like Rachel, a pair of jeans, and just change blouses or tops as needed. Keeping several of these do not take much space.

I was not aware that Ruhle is there "day and night" but is she is, she does not need to change an outfit for each show. This is ridiculous. This highlights my point that they should dress professionally.

[Demsrule86]

161. I don't want to imitate a man in my attire...that is a sexist approach that harkens back to the 70's

Few men in most industries even where suits these days...on TV you see it but not at businesses...hubs is an engineer and hasn't warn a suit in years...except to interviews.

[question everything]

183. Imitating the approach, not the attire

If Ruhle appears on many shows, does she need to change an outfit for each show? I pointed out that men do not feel a need to change, they wear the same clothes for their morning show and their evening. In most cases - yes, on TV - it will be a jacket, a shirt and a tie. If needed, they will change shirt. Same with women - keep the jacket and if needed, change a top or a blouse. And even if she, or others, cannot got home at the end of the day, they will still have a different top without needing a whole wardrobe.

The "sexist" approach that you point out as that women on TV have to change their outfit for each show.

[Demsrule86]

185. I just don't think it matters. I would prefer that we consider the content of the shows not the

attire of female hosts.

[Wiseman32218]

83. I care about substance of the message, not style of how it is delivered.

[WinkyDink]

98. Maybe that's why, in some countries, one can view stripping women newsreaders.

It's the MESSAGE. 😝

[Iggo]

85. Shame! Shame! Shame!

[LuckyCharms]

94. lol

[EarthFirst]

95. Question. Everything.

Including this OP.

[nini]

102. What did the men have on?

Was it ok?

[jalan48]

103. I think we'd be better off naked.

[wasupaloopa]

105. I met my wife and in-laws in the nude 33 years ago at a nudist club

Her brothers and sisters were there also.

It helped getting off on the right foot. It was saying "this is me" nothing to hide.

We've been married 31 years and her family is my family.

Helps out at long family get togethers like Thanksgiving too. No need to get all modest with bath time and such.

[jalan48]

106. Yep-it demystifies the body. We are what we are.

[saidsimplesimon]

104. Way to go

Alienate women, news anchors and progressives with a broad brush of bull shit. just imo

[Skittles]

108. I am SICK of this fad

if women don't like being JUDGED ON THEIR APPEARANCE, stop being dictated by FASHION FADS

and no that is NOT "SLUT SHAMING"

[moriah]

122. Because freedom to choose our attire is obviously the root of our oppression.

[Skittles]

123. I'm talking about a professional setting

it MATTERS

[moriah]

132. Well, I can't find a photo of her showing dirtyshoulder on air.

I admit I think the ridiculous red dress she wore with a dropped shoulder to an evening thing she was photographed in looks tacky, but that was an evening gala so not on air or a "professional" setting.

Unless the OP can find photographic evidence of her Friday, October 20th outfit (I can't find any clips, I've looked) that was so offensive, I'm going with OP overreacting. I can't find photos her on air like that.

[Skittles]

140. LOL

DONE HERE

[moriah]

141. Actually, I did finally find the video.

You judge from there.

She showed dirtyshoulders and collarbone, but no cleavage.

Ooh, terribly unprofessional.

[question everything]

150. Thank you. This is not a professinal attire

Thank you for making my point.

[moriah]

151. So you are honestly afraid of collarbones?

Jeezus H Christ on a pogo stick.

Now, riddle me this: was she dressed more or less professionally than the female guest at the end of the video, who had all her shoulders covered and wasn't showing cleavage, but had a form-fitting blouse with a deep v-neck?

How many female business suits with underblouses shown on the news direct the eyes to the area above the bosom like a black dress with a white collar that's still above the boobs vs the V of the suit front drawing the eye down?

Which non-FCC banned female flesh is unprofessional to show?

Look, I am happy for men if they want to have a revolution in what they consider appropriate business attire and get rid of the 17th century fad that must feel like tying a noose around their necks every morning. I will support them all the way. If they want to wear the monkey suit, I'll support it too.

But female reporters just had to fight for the right to bare arms in the Capitol. WTF is so sexual and inappropriate and distracting about collarbones, and why are we to blame for the fact you might be imagining strapless bras don't exist?

Your main gripes with Ruhle all have the same rings we women hear all the time. We talk too much about things we supposedly don't know as much as the men about. We are "high pitched" and "interrupt". We're to blame for our own oppression, especially successful women also blessed/cursed with traditionally defined beauty, even if it's the people in power putting pressure on those women to show a certain amount of skin if they want to advance their careers. And because we hear them, many women internalize them too.

Perhaps you should follow the advice of your username and question your own assumptions. Try watching the segment with a notepad, and count interruptions. See how many times both hosts interrupted guests and count who did more interrupting in general, and of which genders. And question whether you are perceiving things that aren't there.

----

Edit to add: I made the bra comment because it's the only thing I can possibly think of as what could be perceived as sexual about off the shoulder clothing. And because I had a male colleague ask me "why I wasn't wearing a bra" when I was, it was fall and they didn't make "tshirt bras" in my size then. Even though I was wearing something completely within dress code and showing far less flesh, apparently men wonder about women's underwear a lot I guess.

[Skittles]

175. you are correct

[Demsrule86]

162. Not to me...I am of the 21st century...why should women dress like men.

[MLAA]

110. Adding my pet peave

I am a feminist. I went to engineering school when less than 10percent were women. I have always stood up for equality and freedom of speech/expression, equal pay for equal work in what had been a heavily male dominated work place. I have stood up for and supported women who chose to dress differently from the 'norm' at work. With that intro, at least a couple times a week I find the following Fox News syndrome wardrobe choices distracting me from my local news:

Huge sparkly chandelier earrings
Oversized fake eyelashes that make the newscaster blink a lot
Cocktail dresses (the kind that, well, would look gorgeous at cocktail parties and black tie events)
Over abundance super shiny lip gloss

Of course everyone should be able to dress as they choose, but I think there are some place-time parameters I'd still like to hold onto. Like Melania showing up to a flood in 8 inch stilettos and multiple wardrobe changes, it was her choice but it was a unnecessary distraction from the message to me.

[question everything]

114. Many of these are distractions to the women themselves

If they have to tug at their tight clothes to reveal just the amount of skin they want; or hair that falls over their eyes, and, I suppose, large earrings that catch their hair, or their collars. We've seen all of this.

[Skittles]

116. thank you

common freaking sense

[saidsimplesimon]

112. Meh, poor form for

a so called liberal, imo. You are not a friend of the ladies I respect.

[tirebiter]

113. It's not like you're watching NAKED NEWS

Maybe it would be better if you did. Have at it:

https://www.nakednews.com/account/purchase?_cd=20171003_fallspecial_popup

[moriah]

118. I used to watch Mosaic: News From the Middle East.

The Iranian state-run English language broadcast was done by a woman wearing a Chador, seen only from that up, speaking with a very precise "BBC British" accent about their "peaceful nuclear programme". You could hear the spelling, if you know what I mean.

If she wanted to wear it, that should be her right. In her case we don't know, because it was required regardless.

If Wallace and Ruhle choose to wear that clothing, that's their right, and if the sight of a bare shoulder and collarbone is so offensive to you, you have the right to watch another network or other shows.

If MSNBC is pushing it on them in an exploitative manner, then put the blame where it belongs -- on the network.

[lynintenn]

119. As a female in her 60's

I have often thought some of the female news anchors dress too provocatively. Maybe because being raised in the south we dress more conservative. I like most all female anchors on MSNBC and CNN but i do agree that at times they dress unprofessionally. Some look like they are headed to a cocktail party or a beach party.

[LeftyMom]

125. "in the south we dress more conservative" (sic)

Maybe you should dress to be comfortable and stop sneering at other women? It's miserably hot and humid in the south for half the year after all.

I live in CA, it's hot here too, and I can't remember the last time anybody wore pantyhose and men see our shoulders all the time and amazingly nobody's died of a terminal erection.

[procon]

128. That inappropriate, sneering retort dodges the issue.

Anyone who works in a professional capacity in any white collar job conforms to the accepted dress standards of their career. Pick any profession, the attire is staid, conservative and nondescript for a reason, lets not pretend it isn't so. A lawyer doesn't show up to court in an off the shoulder party dress, and your doctor doesn't do your pap smear in his speedos. It isn't a matter of being comfortable at work or everyone would be in their jammies. Look at any news anchor on any network or cable show, with the exception of Fox News, they aren't there to look sexy or make a fashion statement, just report the news without becoming a distraction themselves.

[LeftyMom]

155. Took my dad to the Dermatologist today. She was wearing yoga pants in a cute print.

NOBODY DIED.

[obamanut2012]

135. The poster is incorrect

You know where I have lived and where I do now -- that goes for attorneys, and that's about it. Or Junior Leaguer/country club types. You know what I do for a living, and I wear shorts all summer to work, and I'm in an actual profession.

[LeftyMom]

154. Yeah, I've spent a lot of time in the south

I mean, I have family in Kentucky. Humidity is a thing and nobody dresses for overdressed misery except on Sundays (and I don't even know if that's universal, but that side of the family are Baptists and Baptists are weird and repressed.)

[obamanut2012]

156. I actually have worn shorts to Mass

nice shorts and a nice shirt, but yeah, if it was Saturday evening Mass.

[obamanut2012]

134. I live in the south, and have for 30+ years, and no, we do not

Dress "more conservatively," unless someone is going to church or something. I work in very professional profession, and we can even wear shorts (nice shorts) to work in the summer, because it is a zillion degrees and 100% humidity.

[LexVegas]

143. I live in the South and we wear tuxedos or wool pants and blouses year round.

[USALiberal]

120. FFS Self delete this crap. nt

[Hekate]

124. You mean summery sun-dresses in a freezing studio? It's not "evening attire" ...

Just an odd choice that seems to have swept the profession in the past few years.

Anyway, Rachel Maddow's "black suit" is a suit jacket thrown over jeans worn with tennis shoes. She has a rack of various jackets and T-shirts at the studio. No accessories. By her own admission, she has zero interest in women's fashions or makeup or hairstyles. There's a makeup artist at the studio that does her face.

Rachel is brilliant, enthusiastic, and yes, she looks professional on MSNBC. Have you seen her bounce across the stage on Colbert?

As for the rest of the women on MSNBC, I'm much more interested in what they are saying than in what they are wearing. MSNBC has managed to get a wonderful coterie of women journalists and commentators together, and I look forward to each one of them except Andrea Mitchell.

[moriah]

133. Does anyone actually have a picture of the oh-so-offensive outfit?

I admit if I knew her personally I'd probably thwack her on the side of the head and recommend a better designer if she'd been in one particular red dropped shoulder dress that she wore to an evening event because the thing is, IMHO, fugly. Nothing about it being overly revealing, it's just not at all my taste. But if it's her taste, it's up to her if she wants to wear.

But I have diligently been searching for videos or stills of any Friday, Ovlctober 20th appearance of Ruhle, to find out just what tge OP is bitching about.

I can't.

So, I'm at "pics or it didn't happen".

[Hekate]

139. Ask the OP, because unless they start dressing like FOX's eye-candy, I could care less.

[WinkyDink]

190. Ah, so there CAN BE limits! Just yours, though, not the OP's?

[Hekate]

195. FOX: propaganda, woman sitting between two men in suits, very short skirt, cross legs...

...adjust blouse to display cleavage, contribute nothing to the discussion ----> eye candy.

Female journalists on MSNBC: not propaganda, actual news and analysis.

But haha how clever.

[Lint Head]

126. ?

I think she can probably wear what she likes. Don't think there is a particular news person's attire. Only Fox has in their contract what a woman has to wear on the air.

[Onyrleft]

127. I think the best way to judge a woman's attire,

is to throw the outfit in a lake. If the outfit is innocent, it will sink; If the outfit floats it is guilty and should be burned at the stake.

[Lil Missy]

130. This is sexist BS.

[BannonsLiver]

198. And yet an alleged "feminist" agrees with the OP.

Doesn't sound like any feminist I've ever encountered.

[radical noodle]

131. Stephanie Ruhle is awesome

She can take down the lying GOP trickle down economics folks with such precision that they hardly know what's hit them. What in the world does her clothing have to do with it?

I'm so glad to hear that Rachel meets with your approval, though.

[question everything]

147. No, she does not. Ali Velshi is the one who explains economics that everyone can understand

as long as she does not interrupt him, with high voice that drowns his.

She should be paired with Chris Matthews, than both of them can interrupt each other. And give Ali his own show. Alone. He is better than Nicole Wallace.

[radical noodle]

152. That's nonsense

Ali Velshi does fine, but so does Stephanie who has a long history in business and finance. I'm sorry you don't find her voice sufficiently masculine for your delicate ears. Yes, she sometimes interrupts Ali or her guest, but so does Ali, a person that you seem to find without fault.

I don't know if you just dislike women or dislike women on TV, or perhaps just dislike her for some reason but whatever it is... it seems to be your problem, not hers. Most people find her to be knowledgeable and good at digging for the truth. She also despises trump, which I find to be a great quality in any reporter who has the facts to back up her criticism of what he and the GOP are doing.

"high voice"... omg....

[moriah]

142. TW: Here's Stephanie's "unprofessional" outfit being debated.

Omg!

Collarbone!!

Cover your eyes!!!!

[question everything]

186. Too bad the photo that you posted is no longer available, but Melania's is a close resemblance

At least the shoulders part.

(Was not going to add any more; I don't believe in a pissing contest, but seeing this photo in today's paper is too tempting)

[moriah]

192. Don't pretend like you're sorry.

Especially don't deny you're sorry that the user removed the video, so you could present this picture as anything equivalent to what Stephanie was actually wearing.

But one wonders why you consistently look up pictures of scantily clad women when you seem to agree with Carl Gallups that the sight of collarbone is sexual assault. I know reliving assaults can be symptoms of PTSD, but it's something therapists try to help victims avoid doing.

I don't like to blame victims, but you might be better off not constantly exposing yourself to such triggering material deliberately, or dwelling on the traumatic experience of watching TV a week ago. For your sake.

[LeftInTX]

144. I'm not very concerned about how they dress

I looked at online images to see if Alex Witt (not Wagner) was dressed in low cut outfits on MSNBC. The only pictures I saw were professional. I didn't see anything low cut or inappropriate. The reason I single out Alex is because there were complaints here on DU. Another reason is Alex is on the heavier side and a cocktail dress may show too much cleavage on air. But I don't see a pattern of Alex dressing like this. Maybe she had an "off" day. Or maybe they have someone new in wardrobe who didn't fine tune her outfit to her figure..(This happens)

[moriah]

145. I also found the October 8 Alex Witt outfit.

You need to play the video a bit, at 3:05 they show the side by side that shows what she's really wearing -- baggy blouse with neckline close at the throat, dropped sleeves, but downplaying boobs while showing shoulder -- not a cocktail evening dress. A large-busted woman wearing a halter style undergarment would have plenty of coverage for it.

The producers and film crew put the top part of their bottom feed stuff very close to the edge of her skin, however.

I already posted the outfit the OP was debating for Ruhle. Again, no cleavage and style actually downplaying bosom, but showing shoulder and collarbone.

And if the actual issue is that men hate suits and ties, well.. If men want to start a revolution for more comfortable business attire, getting rid of the fad that started from the cravat and now probably feels like tying a noose every morning, I will stand up for their right to choose professional dress that's also comfortable.

[LeftInTX]

146. I like that dress

I noticed Alex rests her arms on the table, so she may have had an issue with the dressing, "moving" if you know what I mean.

I think Alex's outfit is fine. We shouldn't be too hard on women.

[titaniumsalute]

148. I can't believe this post is on DU??

Go post this stuff at Freeperville.

[question everything]

149. Wow!

You have been posting about 400 posts a year and you know what should and should not be posted here. And an inside knowledge of freepers? Amazing!

[titaniumsalute]

165. So YOU are the thought and post police now??

I come on DU multiple times per day reading. Yes I'm busy and don't really have time to post much because I don't have time to banter back and forth. I didn't know Du was now an exclusive high post count club?

[question everything]

182. Um... did you read your own post?

You were the one questioning posting "this stuff" on DU.

And lower counts can indicate that you are not familiar with "the stuff" that get post here.

[titaniumsalute]

184. So you are assuming I'm ignorant because I don't post a lot?

My post was in reference to the rather shocking content on DU? (Again, a site I have visited many times per day nearly every day of the year since around 2008.)

Gee stereotyping is fun! Quit trying to bully people and move on.

[radical noodle]

153. IKR?

I thought I'd turned the wrong corner somewhere on the internet.

[titaniumsalute]

166. Exactly

and I'm 42 so I had to look up IKR? LOL. Now I know!

[WinkyDink]

189. Oh, because reporters are now political figures??

[Demsrule86]

157. I consider this unimportant.

[DrDan]

163. wow - am I on the right site? We now judge what on-air women wear?

[radical noodle]

167. Only a few of us, hopefully n/t

[WinkyDink]

191. I'm sure NOBODY here would EVER judge Megyn Kelly or SHS or, Heaven forfend, Melania. WE go HIGH.

Bwahahahahahahahahah!

[BannonsLiver]

199. There was another hopelessly inane thread started about Alex Whitt recently.

Probably by the same OP who apparently fancies themselves as some kind of authority (self proclaimed of course) on fashion and the tv news business.

[DrDan]

203. like there are not real issues, local and country-wide, to concern ourselves with

And even if there weren't, to be concerned with what someone wears is simply, as you say, inane.

[WinkyDink]

188. Funny how the MALE reporters never think to dress other than in SOP attire. Let's see biceps!

[moriah]

193. When men want to burn their ties, and free themselves from 17th century fads...

... I will support them wholeheartedly.

In fact, one could argue a traditional tie is a true workplace hazard. It looks like something tied around your necks so your boss can more easily strangle you -- and why should you have to buy a tie-clip, as well, to keep it from getting caught in something?

[WinkyDink]

194. Nevertheless, they persisted..... ;-)

[WoonTars]

200. Welcome to Puritanical Underground...

...what a disgraceful post...the gop is literally screwing everyone but the ricest 1% and THIS is the focus?

Some people clearly have too much time on their hands...

[Purveyor]

202. You really should have posted this in LBN. Nothing else in the world going on anyway...