In our lifetimes we have seen at least three presidential elections stolen.

[Stinky The Clown]

2000 was stolen by our own Supreme Court.

2004 saw chicanery in Ohio that cost us the presidency.

2016 may have been the worst, with Russia colluding with domestic entities to steal the election. The exact method is not yet known, but most "theories: agree that voter pollution (fake news from Russian bots)played a big role. And there is evidence, not yet conclusive, of actual vote flipping.




So what can we do?

Is it too late?

Do we have any recourse?

Does *anyone* think the stranglehold of the GOPee will allow remedies to be put in place?





It seems to me the only way forward is for Dems to win both houses of Congress and the presidency.

[lpbk2713]

1. RayGun backers sabotaged Jimmy Carter's campaign.

And RayGun's election was the beginning of the decline of the USA.

[Sancho]

2. 2000 and 2004 were stolen by hacking the voting...

I have no idea why no one seems interested.

[elleng]

5. Dems let them go,

hence I have no thought these next will be different.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

3. Cough, cough ** 1960 ** cough, cough. NT

The returns from Cook county caused some raised eyebrows.

[shanny]

6. cough, cough--Kennedy would have won WITHOUT Cook County

OR Illinois. Electoral College was 303-219; would have been 276-246 with a swing of Illinois' 27 votes.

and fyi:

The GOP's failure to prove fraud doesn't mean, of course, that the election was clean. That question remains unsolved and unsolvable. But what's typically left out of the legend is that multiple election boards saw no reason to overturn the results. Neither did state or federal judges. Neither did an Illinois special prosecutor in 1961. And neither have academic inquiries into the Illinois case (both a 1961 study by three University of Chicago professors and more recent research by political scientist Edmund Kallina concluded that whatever fraud existed wasn't substantial enough to alter the election).


--http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/history_lesson/2000/10/was_nixon_robbed.html

Go figure: Republicans (politicians!) lie when it suits them.

[former9thward]

8. But not without Texas and Illinois.

There were credible allegations of fraud in Texas.

Also I will add what you left out of the article you quoted:

On the other hand, some fraud clearly occurred in Cook County. At least three people were sent to jail for election-related crimes, and 677 others were indicted before being acquitted by Judge John M. Karns, a Daley crony. Many of the allegations involved practices that wouldn't be detected by a recount, leading the conservative Chicago Tribune, among others, to conclude that "once an election has been stolen in Cook County, it stays stolen." What's more, according to journalist Seymour Hersh, a former Justice Department prosecutor who heard tapes of FBI wiretaps from the period believed that Illinois was rightfully Nixon's. Hersh also has written that J. Edgar Hoover believed Nixon actually won the presidency but in deciding to follow normal procedures and refer the FBI's findings to the attorney general—as of Jan. 20, 1961, Robert F. Kennedy—he effectively buried the case.

[shanny]

9. OK.

What were the "credible allegations" of fraud in Texas?

And you want to cite J. Edgar as a credible source?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

12. I read RMN didn't challenge the IL results...

I read RMN didn't challenge the IL results because chicanery downstate where the GOP was strong rivaled the alleged chicanery in Cook County.

[shanny]

18. I've heard that too.

[former9thward]

13. FDR, Truman, JFK and LBJ had no problem with Hoover.

They were presidents and all worked with him so I will defer to their judgement.

As far as the 1960 election:

In Illinois, the most recent and fair-minded study (Kallina’s Kennedy v. Nixon) concludes that sufficient evidence does not exist to determine whether Chicago’s Democratic machine stole more votes there than Republicans did downstate. Texas presents a different kind of problem. A system of free and fair elections in the modern sense had not yet taken hold on the ground there in 1960. Voter fraud was fairly common, safeguards to prevent it were few, and 1960 was no different in those respects. Thus, the most dispassionate analysis of this issue from the perspective of fifty years later is that we will never know whether Kennedy really “won,” in the sense of what result an entirely honest and effective administration of the electoral process in Illinois and Texas would have produced on Election Day in 1960.

http://historynewsnetwork.org/article/133484

[shanny]

20. So according to your sources, we will never know.

I can live with that. Funny how that point of view never intrudes into the Republican claim of a stolen election.

As for J Edgar Hoover: you do know about him, his reputation and his infamous files, right? There is a difference between not being able to fire someone and "having no problem" with him (this is the guy who sent a letter to MLK Jr. about his marital infidelities and urged him to commit suicide).

Hoover had particularly good relationships with at least two presidents he served under: Franklin D. Roosevelt and Lyndon Johnson. Of the others, Harry Truman, Dwight D. Eisenhower, John F. Kennedy and Richard Nixon all considered sacking him, but, files aside, they had good political reasons for keeping Hoover. Even in the 1960s, he had a strong public image as an honest, competent law enforcement technocrat. While his relationship with John and Robert Kennedy was often tense — yes, it was Hoover who, through wiretaps of Chicago mob boss Sam Giancana, discovered President Kennedy’s affair with mob-connected socialite Judith Campbell Exner — Hoover also could have been covering up embarrassing secrets for Camelot.

<snip>

By 1960, the FBI had open, “subversive” files on some 432,000 Americans. Hoover deemed the most sensitive files as “personal and confidential” and kept them in his office, where his secretary, Helen Gandy, could watch them. Today, with few exceptions, Hoover’s FBI files are open for any American to see at the National Archives. They make fascinating reading and paint a stark portrait of power run amok.

<snip>

...he also stands as a reminder that 48 years of power concentrated in one person is a recipe for abuse. It was mostly after his death that Hoover’s dark side became common knowledge — the covert black-bag jobs, the warrantless surveillance of civil rights leaders and Vietnam-era peace activists, the use of secret files to bully government officials, the snooping on movie stars and senators, and the rest.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/five-myths-about-j-edgar-hoover/2011/11/07/gIQASLlo5M_story.html?utm_term=.6d3c9616f0bc

The man had his own agenda.

[Yupster]

21. Google "Landslide Lyndon"

Texas was a completely one party state before 1960 and it was run by regional Democratic Party political bosses. The only elections that mattered were the Democratic primaries, and they were decided by which side could steal the most votes. With both sides stealing, it's hard to know who should have won.

There was no organized Republican party back then. They rarely even held primaries. Even the most conservative voters were Democrats as they were the only party that had primaries and the races were decided in the primaries.

Johnson got the title Landslide Lyndon after stealing the 1948 Democratic Party senate nomination from the former governor who was trying to steal it from him.

[shanny]

22. OK.

RMN would have had to flip both Texas and Illinois to win in 1960. Texas was the wild west, and it is difficult to prove anything, apparently...Nixon also lost the state in '68, but won in a walk in '72. In Illinois, maybe both sides cheated and canceled each other out.

But what bothers me is the narrative is always about ballot box stuffing in Chicago. Always.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

10. Thanks for the update.

For the record, the first election in which I voted was 1972. I did not vote for Nixon.

[shanny]

23. Me too.

[elleng]

4. I see no 'remedies' being put in place.

[shanny]

7. The real scandal IMO:

Stealing the election by disenfranchisement has been happening in plain view since 2000 and our Democratic Party and Democratic leaders have done/SAID fuck all about it.

[crazycatlady]

11. Look at it from my POV

The first presidential election I was eligible to vote in was 2000. So every GOP president in my adult lifetime has been elected under questionable circumstances.

[treestar]

14. People have to vote in midterms

and start caring about offices other than the Presidency. They don't care enough.

[mythology]

15. There is absolutely no evidence of vote flipping. None. Zilch. Zip

That claim needs to die.

[brush]

17. There's plenty of evidence of vote suppression and non-counting of votes though

[TheFrenchRazor]

25. and...there's no evidence votes that WEREN'T flipped. none. zilch. zip. admit it. nt

[Demsrule86]

30. There is evidence in Wisconsin and the voting machines have not been examined.

Why is that? Also, if you look at it mathematically...it stinks to high heaven.

[Meowmee]

16. Supreme Court

Appointing the “prez” in 2000 was the beginning of the end imo. What can we do? Getting rid of the ec may help but maybe not if hacking, fraud and suppression etc aren’t adequately dealt with. Paper ballots, monitored elections and more needs to happen right now. A major problem is a huge portion of the population is bat shit. In addition Dems need to fight to the death in the first place when these things happen.

[shanny]

24. Amen.

[DFW]

26. That is the extremist right's ace in the hole

Winning Congress and the White House in 2008 made us ignore their safety valve: Cheney made sure that Roberts and Alito would uphold Citizens United before allowing their names to be placed in nomination to the Supreme Court. None of us had ever heard of it at that point, and it didn't even have a name yet. But Republicans knew that the only way to counter the Democratic wave that swept Obama into the White House and gave us both houses of Congress was to either cheat or change campaign laws. Cheating always entails the risk of getting caught, although it doesn't seem to have put any major Republicans in prison for it since Nixon's gang was sent away. But change the law to make sleazy tactics legal, and you're home free--which, I'd say looking at our current governmental makeup, they are.

[Meowmee]

27. Yep

I agree completely. I just wonder what can be done about that.

[DFW]

28. Only one thing

Such a tidal wave of Democratic voters coming out that all their cheating can't overcome it (think 2008).

Trouble is, to get that we need a GOTV that we haven't seen in the country yet, and the Republicans aren't about to make it easy for us.

[Meowmee]

31. Yes

That might do it. But if they weren’t motivated to get out and stop this monster I have little hope for this country. No excuse for that just plain crazy imo.

[Horse with no Name]

19. they haven't stolen it to this point to give it back easily

Constitutional remedies are indicated but we are in their death grip.

[Demsrule86]

29. There are two components to this phenomena.

Firstly, the Election is close-easier to steal. Secondly, in every case the Democratic nominee is attacked from the right and the left and there is a 'protest' vote from the left left Green riffraff... the Greens are actively involved in every loss. We need to vote Democrat always in every election...especially midterms. During presidential years, we need to push back hard against smears from the right and the discontented leftist green riffraff.

[L. Coyote]

32. 2000 Florida was stolen from Gore by illegal voter caging.

Before it was stolen again by not counting all the votes, then stolen by the Supreme Court Republican partisans.