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Fri Oct 27, 2017, 09:35 PM

I think we can expect a cycle of indictment/pardon, indictment/pardon, indictment/pardon,

indictment/pardon, indictment/pardon from the Mueller investigation and Drumpf until something blows. I am hoping it is a blood vessel under that ridiculous hair, but who knows?

Resist.

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Reply I think we can expect a cycle of indictment/pardon, indictment/pardon, indictment/pardon, (Original post)
rzemanfl Oct 2017 OP
emulatorloo Oct 2017 #1
rzemanfl Oct 2017 #3
emulatorloo Oct 2017 #6
rzemanfl Oct 2017 #9
emulatorloo Oct 2017 #11
rzemanfl Oct 2017 #14
emulatorloo Oct 2017 #15
rzemanfl Oct 2017 #17
emulatorloo Oct 2017 #20
DK504 Oct 2017 #2
rzemanfl Oct 2017 #4
Ccarmona Oct 2017 #5
emulatorloo Oct 2017 #7
rzemanfl Oct 2017 #12
unblock Oct 2017 #8
rzemanfl Oct 2017 #10
marylandblue Oct 2017 #13
rzemanfl Oct 2017 #16
Dotarded Oct 2017 #19
marylandblue Oct 2017 #21
unblock Oct 2017 #22
BannonsLiver Oct 2017 #18

Response to rzemanfl (Original post)

Fri Oct 27, 2017, 09:36 PM

1. Trump can't pardon state crimes

If say Manafort is charged by Virginia state attorney on money laundering for example, Trump cannot pardon him.

The screws can be put to the indicted person to flip and cooperate w the investigation.

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Response to emulatorloo (Reply #1)

Fri Oct 27, 2017, 09:37 PM

3. I am well aware of that. I am talking about the Mueller Investigation. n/t

Last edited Fri Oct 27, 2017, 10:14 PM - Edit history (1)

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Response to rzemanfl (Reply #3)

Fri Oct 27, 2017, 09:40 PM

6. Are you aware that Mueller is working w state attorney generals in NY and VA?

Mueller didn't just fall off the turnip truck. He's a seasoned prosecutor and has a hell of a team

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Response to emulatorloo (Reply #6)

Fri Oct 27, 2017, 09:45 PM

9. I am. I think he will keep filing federal charges though whatever Drumpf does in response. n/t

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Response to rzemanfl (Reply #9)

Fri Oct 27, 2017, 09:49 PM

11. We definitely live in "interesting times"

I am rather Pollyanna your cynicism may be a better approach.

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Response to emulatorloo (Reply #11)

Fri Oct 27, 2017, 09:57 PM

14. I guess what I am saying is this will seem like death by a thousand cuts.

How many indictments? How many state court charges?

Do you think Drumpf will try to fire Mueller and Rosenstein? I do.

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Response to rzemanfl (Reply #14)

Fri Oct 27, 2017, 09:59 PM

15. Pollyanna me says Trump will have hell rained down on him if he does a Saturday Night Massacre

t

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Response to emulatorloo (Reply #15)

Fri Oct 27, 2017, 10:04 PM

17. You think Drumpf is prudent? Dana Boente resigned. Why? n/t

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Response to rzemanfl (Reply #17)

Fri Oct 27, 2017, 10:06 PM

20. No Trump is not prudent. He'll probably do it.

Nixon didn't get away w it. I don't think Trump will get away with it either. Constitutional crisis

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Response to rzemanfl (Original post)

Fri Oct 27, 2017, 09:36 PM

2. If they keep all this on state levels

can the Slug still pardon?

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Response to DK504 (Reply #2)

Fri Oct 27, 2017, 09:37 PM

4. No. n/t

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Response to rzemanfl (Original post)

Fri Oct 27, 2017, 09:39 PM

5. These Are Federal Charges

 

Any individual pardoned can no longer plead the 5th nor can the President claim Executive Privilege to stop that individual from testifying.

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Response to Ccarmona (Reply #5)

Fri Oct 27, 2017, 09:40 PM

7. In addition accepting pardon is an admission of guilt

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Response to emulatorloo (Reply #7)

Fri Oct 27, 2017, 09:50 PM

12. Someone will flip, somewhere along the line. n/t

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Response to Ccarmona (Reply #5)

Fri Oct 27, 2017, 09:44 PM

8. Not entirely true

First, someone can refuse a pardon in order to retain 5th amendment protections. Not a likely scenario, but possible.

Second, someone pardoned for a federal crime could still take the 5th if answering might implicate themself in a state crime and/or another unpardoned federal crime.

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Response to unblock (Reply #8)

Fri Oct 27, 2017, 09:48 PM

10. Agreed. n/t

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Response to unblock (Reply #8)

Fri Oct 27, 2017, 09:54 PM

13. Which is why Trump may not be pardoning anybody

Accepting a pardon is an admission of guilt. At the same time, the person will be subject to state prosecution anyway, who can still pressure him to testify. Trump would have to pardon people while trusting them to go to state prison rather than betray. Trump trusts nobody. He demands loyalty but does not give it. He will send them all to jail rather than risk his own next. They all know it too.

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Response to marylandblue (Reply #13)

Fri Oct 27, 2017, 10:01 PM

16. I think some of these crimes may have no state law counterpart. Money laundering yes.

I'm not so sure about collusion with a foreign power and election law violations.

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Response to marylandblue (Reply #13)

Fri Oct 27, 2017, 10:05 PM

19. unless the pardon is before trial and conviction

 

There is no admission of guilt if you are pardoned before your trial even takes place

And im inclined to believe this route of state prison that is the fantasy here is just that. Fantasy.

When was the last time that strategy was sound in combatting the federal government. It never has been and it wont now

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Response to Dotarded (Reply #19)

Fri Oct 27, 2017, 10:21 PM

21. Maybe, but if you are pardoned, you can still be compelled to testify

Which means Trump will have to trust the people he pardoned not to squeal anyway. And Trump doesn't trust anybody.

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Response to Dotarded (Reply #19)

Fri Oct 27, 2017, 10:35 PM

22. The state prison thing is a parallel track

Based on the entirely reasonable suspicion that Donnie and co. committed financial crimes prior to becoming president.

It's not necessarily stuff mueller is investigating, though there's some overlap in evidence possibly, such as tax returns or financial records.

If he violated federal tax laws, e.g., he might well have violated New York State tax laws as well.

But yes, federal election law violations would have no state counterpart.

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Response to rzemanfl (Original post)

Fri Oct 27, 2017, 10:04 PM

18. ANd itll drag into an election year too.

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