What If Trump Didn't Know About the Collusion?

[DonViejo]

November 2, 2017 at 11:39 am EDTBy Taegan Goddard

Matt Bai: “The only thing for sure right now is that Mueller has his talons into some Trump associates who would probably throw the president off a plane before they’d spend a single day in jail, so it’s fair to assume that whatever they know will be known to all of us before long.”

“Is it at least plausible that Manafort and Papadopoulos and others in their orbit could have been acting as de facto Russian agents without Trump or his coterie of little Trumps really being aware of it? Or that the Trumps were vaguely aware of what was happening but didn’t think it was such a big deal?”

“I actually do think that’s plausible. And it’s a version of events I find just as disconcerting as any other.”

“There’s no narrative here in which we don’t have a patsy for a president, in a dangerous and confusing world. If that doesn’t scare you, it should.”

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https://politicalwire.com/2017/11/02/trump-didnt-know-collusion/

[HopeAgain]

1. If he didn't know

Then why would he have refused to say anything bad about Putin or Russia? Why was his position on Syria so pro-Russian? Why have sanctions still not been implemented?

Give me a break.

[Baconator]

6. Ego...

... and a nearly physical inability to admit weakness, fault or remorse.

[mythology]

11. Trump's reflexive hatred of Obama?

Trump's utter incompetence at governing?

Or it could just be all of the above. Trump is incompetent, hates Obama and is under Putin's thumb.

[musicblind]

33. Because he's an idiot.

Also, he parrots what the loudmouths around him are saying. He thinks that makes him look smart.

Honestly, I think he did know, but I could see a scenario in which he did not... because he is an idiot.

[PoliticAverse]

2. One of the ways the rich and powerful stay out of jail is by having "plausible deniability"...

telling subordinates to "just take care of it" and being able to deny layer that had any idea
the subordinate was going to do something illegal . One thing about the Nixon impeachment
for those that didn't follow it at the time is that Nixon had "plausible deniability" with many
people until the tapes of him actually directing the cover-up were released.

[B2G]

3. Ain't that the truth! nt

[loyalsister]

42. I think so, too

When I think about how ignorant and apparently disinterested he is in his job, it's hard to imagine that he played much of a role in his campaign beyond showing up for events.

[lagomorph777]

4. Silliest thing I ever heard. He colluded ON TV IN PUBLIC.

[CatMor]

7. Yes he did....

the Town Hall with Hillary and trump being interviewed by Lauer he praised Putin. It was early on in the campaign. I remember being shocked by his comments.

[lagomorph777]

10. 'Russia, if you're listening, I hope you're able to find the 30000 emails that are missing'

Direct explicit treason. On TV.

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/357851-timeline-campaign-knew-russia-had-clinton-emails-months-before-trump

[Tommy_Carcetti]

5. The Ol' Reagan Defense.

Bull to the Shit.

Of course he knew.

The guy who'd been doing business with Russia for decades and who openly lauded Putin somehow doesn't know that his own campaign is conspiring with Russia. Yeah. Okay.

[TeamPooka]

8. Nope. DON JUNIOR'S EMAILS!!!!!!!!

[GreenEyedLefty]

9. I think it's entirely possible Trump didn't know.

He's slick like that. Always at arms length.

I think what's going to get him is not the election. I don't think that's what's freaking him out. He doesn't want Mueller getting into his business dealings - there's some real criminal stuff going on there. Money laundering and fraud, for sure. It's one reason why he got rid of Preet Bharara.

[lagomorph777]

15. C'mon, don't bother selling that here.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/28/us/politics/donald-trump-russia-clinton-emails.html
“Russia, if you’re listening, I hope you’re able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing”


http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/357851-timeline-campaign-knew-russia-had-clinton-emails-months-before-trump

[GreenEyedLefty]

20. It was just my opinion, and I stand by it.

He's a criminal, no doubt. I truly believe he is sweating over the possibility of the feds delving into his business dealings, but not the election. He had no shortage of stooges, minions and true believers to do his dirty work there.

[highplainsdem]

12. That's nonsense, given Trump's comments about Russia and Putin, Don Jr's meeting,

his choice of Manafort and Flynn, and all of Trump's past business dealings and shady associations with Russians, going back decades.

[kentuck]

13. He knew.

In their foreign policy meeting, in which Jeff Sessions objected to meeting Russian leaders, Donald Trump was also in the meeting. He did not object.

[58Sunliner]

14. Seriously????? That f*c*er probably came up with the idea.

“There’s no narrative here in which we don’t have a patsy for a president"-gaslighting. Plain and simple.



Bai-national political columnist for
Yahoo! News. They are never wrong.

[Evergreen Emerald]

16. Please: he is a puppet that was put in power by Putin

Putin and Trump dealings go back decades. Putin has something on Trump, and has likely been funding him--more than Trump admits.

Perhaps my tinfoil hat is too big, but here is what I think: This has been a planned attack on the US for decades. Putin put Trump in the White House. Trump not only knows, he was involved in the attack on the US elections.

[Hortensis]

17. If he didn't, he didn't. However, both that possibility and

that he knew but his hirelings managed the necessary cutouts competently seem very unlikely.

This isn't just the gang that can't shoot straight, they've never figured out which part of their guns the bullets come out of or what they did to cause it.

Even as they tried to collude with a hostile government to get hold of stolen property (emails), they did it signed, in writing -- by email!

Also, Rump himself is known to be a micromanager whenever he's interested in something, and I think we can assume he was interested in getting "crooked Hillary."

Who can forget this micromanager literally confessed twice in front of cameras, including to the Russian ambassador, to firing Comey to obstruct justice. And then there was his claim that Trump Tower was wiretapped, which literally conferred a duty on the FBI come investigate from inside.

Bet Mueller's team has a bunch of eye-rolling knee-slappers on that crew.

[triron]

18. No way Jose.

He knew.

[uponit7771]

19. Then there would be VERY VERY little reason for him to lie about it so much

[vlyons]

21. Trump has still obstructed justice,

violated the emoluments clause, and laundered money. Probably a tax cheat too. Trump is corrupt to his core.

[Solly Mack]

22. Why do people do that? Want to think that the person who holds the title "President" is in the

dark about what everyone else around them is doing?

Is it some warped need to cling to the incredibly delusional notion that a president is somehow above it all? Or that it is better not to taint the office of president with such doings?

Better to think a president incompetent than complicit?

SMH

[pnwmom]

23. Then he shouldn't have fired Comey to get the FBI off his back.

An innocent man wouldn't have committed obstruction of justice to stop an investigation that could never implicate him.

[Wolf Frankula]

24. If he didn't know, he's an idiot

If he did know he's a criminal.

Wolf

[LanternWaste]

25. I think Trump is too full of himself to be left out of any loops.

I think Trump is too full of himself to be left out of any loops... especially when he on the campaign trail.

[Kablooie]

26. Trump is so clueless about everything that might be the case

[Kaleva]

27. Nixon wasn't involved in the Watergate break in but the cover up brought him down.

[L. Coyote]

31. Let's see you prove that negative.

[Kaleva]

36. There is no evidence that Nixon knew of the Watergate break in plan

There is no negative for me to try prove.

[L. Coyote]

37. So which is it, no evidence or no involvement.

If you want to go back to saying no involvement, you have a negative to prove. And saying "no evidence" isn't a proof.

[Kaleva]

39. Then you are trying to prove a negative.

Unless one can provide proof or evidence that Nixon was involved in the planning of the break in or just was aware of it, then it didn't happen.

What you are doing is like telling an accused he is guilty unless he can prove that he is innocent.

[L. Coyote]

41. "Nixon wasn't involved in the Watergate break in" is your assertion and you can't prove it.

You can only say there is no evidence. That proves nothing because it is a negative. How many crimes are unsolved because there is no evidence. Does that mean they did not happen? How can you possibly know that Nixon was not involved when all you have to go on is nothing?

[Kaleva]

46. You continue to try and prove a negative

A logical impossibility.

Until you provide verifiable evidence that contradicts my belief, then I win this discussion.

[L. Coyote]

47. I'm happy for you winning this discussion in your own mind.

The rest of us know the truth. Nixon may or may not have been involved in the Watergate burglary. We are content in the knowledge that things we cannot prove remain possible, that what is in our minds today does not determine the facts of history.

[Kaleva]

48. Noah may or may not have built an ark

You lose.

[get the red out]

28. I don't buy it

He has been too close to Manafort for too long.

[lapfog_1]

29. What we know is that

1. During the campaign, Trump called on Russia to hack the emails


2. During the campaign, Trump broadly hinted that he would have very damaging dirt on "crooked Hillary" right AFTER his son and son-in-law met with the emissaries of Putin.

3. After he was President, on Air Force 1, DJT took personal interest in helping his son draft a false story about that meeting between his son, son-in-law and those Russians, claiming it had to do with a "nothing burger" about adoptions... not an offer from the Russians to provide dirt to the campaign.

All evidence that Trump knew about the collusion and took steps to hide it.

Not to mention firing Comey.

[spanone]

30. he considered a meeting with putin where sessions and papadopolous were present

[Beartracks]

32. Gosh, what's that saying about "ignorance of the law?"

==============

[justiceischeap]

34. Its very plausible he didnt know AT THE TIME

but I bet he found out after the fact. I don’t think this thing goes on as long as it has without him knowing the details of what happened.

Otherwise, why all the lies?

[mfcorey1]

35. What if the creek 'don't' rise! eom

[SaschaHM]

38. If the political/personal career of a Republican that...

supports white supremacy is ruined by the assumption of guilt and optics,....

I will celebrate. I have no sympathy for a republican getting caught up in that when they spread it so willingly to win elections.

The days of me feeling empathy for any republican getting falsely accused/imprisoned were over when "Lock her up" became their mantra. I wish it weren't so, but maybe I'll mellow a bit after the Trump years are done.

[Kirk Lover]

40. LOL That was funny...of course HE KNOWS. Yunior was at the conspiracy meeting. n/t

[Sunlei]

43. yeah, manafort was just some guy all of a sudden running his campaign changing the platform.

working for free as volunteer. Meeting with Russians in trumps 5th avenue home.

[struggle4progress]

44. "Your honor, my client is really just incredibly stupid!"

[Initech]

45. I think the bigger question is: who was the American congressman in the room during that meeting?

Because that Congress person aided and abetted treason by being in that room. My money is on Dana Rohrabacher because he's been called "Putin's favorite Congressman". But who was it?